Wring your hands over the stock market here.

15 years ago

I don't advocate spending time worrying, but a lot of us are naturally concerned about our nest eggs, 401Ks, and the like, and sometimes it helps to share our concerns with others in the same boat. Or similar boats. Or just floating in the same sea.

I received my November financial statement in the mail today. I was expecting a loss over last month, but not that big. I feel a little sick. And perhaps worse, I discovered that my portfolio isn't as diversified as I thought. In fact, I can't say it's diversified at all. It's almost entirely in stocks. I don't know why my broker chose to do this, and I'm mad at myself for not discovering this fact a lot earlier. Too late to do anything now.

Sigh........

Your turn.

Susan

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (15)

susanjf_gw
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
i dread ours...at least the last session we had (w/advisor), i insisted on bonds and utilities...but the largest chunk is money market...dh is getting so close to retirement age and i don't see it happening, when he wants it...(65)i'm just glad he has a job, and we're less than 50k from having the house paid for.
vannie
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
It's made us sick. The only consolation we have is that we have no debts. If we ever recover from this, or partly recover, I'm going to sell some stuff. DH met w/ our retired stock broker and he thought it was a good thing that we had so many utilities. I wish I had it all hidden in a sock somewhere!!
Related Discussions
Fingered citron/buddha's hand from the flea market..
Q
Comments (2)
Also, I'm not sure what's going on with some of the leaves. Some of the leaves lower on the branches have blackened tips (only two or three have this problem), and others have slight curling, deformation and yellowing. The newer growth higher up (as can be seen in first picture) seems more vigorous and normal-looking. Is this mostly past/localized nutrient deficiency?
...See More
More stock market correction expected
Q
Comments (4)
It's been a long bull market, but interestingly enough, the total value has only risen 75% over the 10-month period. One of the lowest valuation increases of the 6 big bull markets in NYSE history, in fact. I do expect less profit out of the market this year, as corp profits are slowing and the Fed continues to maneuver towards that "soft landing". But overall, fundamentals ain't that bad, although the usual media hysteria has the average folk rattled. Can't be sure of anything, of course, but that's part of the risk of life, these days. Moderating risk is the best one can do, otherwise we'd never be brave enough to get out of bed in the morning! A large proportion of our current allocation is overseas, I will cut that back at the end of 2Q07. Time to take that 25% profit from 2006 and get into the next sector. We were lucky on that one, but I'm aiming for our normal return, more in 9-11% range this year. IF, of course, I'm guessing right, LOL.
...See More
Stock Market Stupid
Q
Comments (20)
Michie1, There's a lot of information at Yahoo, then click on the "Finance" option. If you enter the symbol (see them listed beside the name of the stock in a good financial paper, e.g. N.Y. Times), it will show you what the current price is, during the day (with 15 - 20 min. delay). If you click on the symbol, it will show you recent information about that stock, plus chart of stock price ranges, over a day, a few days, a month or so, a year, 5 years, etc. In most libraries you can look up information about a whole host of stocks. Very few mutual funds have a long-term track record of much higher than stock market averages. Which are somewhere in the neighbourhood of 7 - 8% annual growth. U.S. mutual fund managers often charge about 1.5% management fee - which is a fairly hefty percentage of your growth for the year. Many Canadian mutual fund managers charge over 2% annual management fee, which is about a quarter of the usual rate of growth. However, if the value of the stocks in their portfolio drops - they still get their fee. There are some stocks that carry a number of stocks as part of their business, so they operate somewhat like a mutual fund. One such could have been bought for $12. in 1965 and recent price was quite a few thousand, as they've never split. Some say that they've not paid out any of their earnings, either - which would have meant that you'd have incurred no tax liability since '65, had you bought shares then and continue to hold them. But the guys who claim that are wrong - they paid out 10 cents in 1967, so shareholders would have had some tax liability that year. I understand that they own more Coke shares than any other agency, plus a lot of Gillette, insurance, candy, etc. Their annual report is written in language that most of us can understand. I'm not suggesting that you should buy any of that company. I own some shares - of the recently issued kind, which are valued at one-thirtieth of the original shares. Good wishes for learning how to make wise investment decisions. ole joyful
...See More
Alternatives to Stock Market?
Q
Comments (15)
Greetings everyone. Some folks may find some useful advice in the posts above. All that I said in the previous post still applies. The guy whose system I spoke of, whose Canadian system, using solid stocks, takes about 2 hours per year to operate, as one can choose a basket of 10, or 5, or 4 stocks and several of the chosen stocks, usually about 6 to 10 of the list of 10, continue unchanged, year to year. The system has a growth rate averaged over 20 years of about 14% ... at low (for Canadian residents) tax rate on current income, plus much of the gain stored up over a number of years till one sells, then there's a tax advantage on the gain, in Canada. But if one puts one's asset into the bank, where it produces interest ... one must pay part of the interest to the income tax people ... and interest is taxed at top rate. The borrowing agency guarantees that the number of dollars that you lent them won't shrink: the parallel guarantee that they never mention is the number of those invested dollars won't grow, either. So folks who put those grow-proof dollars into the bank must put some of the interest with the principal to maintain purchasing power, to counteract inflation. I expect my stocks to increase in value, at least partially offsetting the inflationary costs. I'd rather buy (part of) the bank! Not only have my bank shares' values grown, directly, over those years ... ... the dividend rate grew from a nickel or a dime, 41 years ago, to $3.48 annual rate, last year. Taxed at a low rate in earlier years, but the tax rate on that kind of income dropped again, last year. As that mutual fund manager said, "I like to buy a Dollar ... for 60 cents". I agree - but I'll buy it myself, saving the management fees that he charges. I'm sad that so many investors, when stock prices fall ... rush to the exits, instead of getting ready to buy more, and buying them. Further ... had some of you U.S. guys chosen to buy some Canadian money to have bought those stocks 5 - 6 - 7 years ago, 65 - 69 - 75 cents U.S. would have bought you CAD$1.00. If you were to choose to sell those stocks now (and I don't know why you would) every CAD$1.00 now does not buy only 69 cents U.S. ... but within a couple of cents either way of $1.00. Which would have meant an additional 1/3 - 1/2 growth of your invested asset. In addition to the growth over those years. I've written recently of a guy's mixed Canadian and U.S. system that, running for 16 years, has produced 5 year growth rates averaging 16 - 36% (a difference of 20) ... and 10-year growth rates averaging 19.6 - 29.3% (a difference of 10): note the lower rate of volatiity over the ten-year periods, please. The longer you leave quality stocks ... the better they do. Remember how the skilled advisors say to invest your dollars in good stocks, watch them a little in case the company gets crippled, but don't sweat blood if a $20.00 stock goes down $1.00 ...or $2.00 ... or $3.00 or more. If it's a quality stock, it'll likely recover. In fact, while the market is dropping, remember what a mutual fund manager told a group of us sales people almost 25 years ago ... "I like to buy a Dollar for 60 cents". During a substantial drop in the market, recruit some extra money in addition to the regular investment program that you follow. As you don't know when the bottom will appear, invest some funds from time to time, in a regular fashion. Would you rather buy coffee that's worth $1.00/lb. usually ... ... for $1.20 ... ... or, after a drop in the market - for 80 cents. As long as the quality is there, I like the last scenario the best. How unfortunate that so many investors buy a stock for a Dollar ... and when the market goes down, they get upset, angry and scared ... and sell for 60 cents! Good wishes for learning more about how the markets work, every month and every year. It's a hobby that pays well. Maybe use mutual funds for a while in the early years of your investing program, for diversity, but later learn how to buy various stocks from time to time, building your own diversity? The fees that you pay to regular mutual fund managers are substantial - comparable to the rate of income tax that you pay. And, if you put the money into the bank in "guaranteed" financial products, you must take some of current ernings to add to the principal to keep the purchasing power of your dollars even. When you put $20,000. into the bank 15 years ago, the bank would pay you (rather slim) interest every year, as agreed. If you need your $20,000. now and go to collect it, they'll pay you exactly $20,000. - which would have bought a nice car, 15 years ago ... but not now - cars are more expensive, as are most things. So, you must pay income tax on the current income, and at the top rate, by the way. You must put part of it with the principal to maintain purchasing power. I don't like earning interest! Good wishes to you and yours. And teach your kids about how money works, O.K? Please! They'll use that information every day of their lives! ole joyful
...See More
jannie
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I've lost over $30,000 (on paper) from my 401 K in the last three months. I'm crying and scared.
whidbeykathy
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
We just got our statement in todays mail. Wow, I dread telling husband when he gets home. We lost a huge chunk this time.
It really bothers me because we just transfered a lot out to a different money market instead of stock. We would have transferred even more rather than just lose it. I guess the stockbroker thought we were safe?! Dh is going to really be on the warpath about it.Not much to be done now though..
sue_va
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
"When you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot in it and hang on." We don't know what the future will bring, so all we can do is hope for the best. I won't get a statement until the end of the year, so I don't know what my situation is right now, but there isn't anything I can do about it anyway. I am not a worrier.

I will tell you about a situation I ran into yesterday. I had been thinking about getting a Discover card and start paying all my bills on it. I never carry a balance and thought the "pay on time" would give me a few dollars back. I applied on line. Didn't work, so I called the 800#, only to find out that the Invitation Code # had expired, but I could try again in 45 days.. Not only that, I couldn't be approved because I don't have a mortgage payment, or pay rent. (I bought into the Retirement Community where I live.)
I think I sound like a good risk! So there went that idea!

Oh, well.

Sue
okwriter
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
DH is 50 and hopes to retire at 55. I've been wanting to whack him up'side the head this last year for having all of his 401k money in the "safe" fund with guaranteed interest instead of in some of the stock and index funds.

He's looking pretty darn smart right about now.
:-)
grammahony
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Your right Rita. They say, 5 years from when you want to retire, to make sure all your investments are in a 'fixed' income type investment. No investments where there is a risk.
DH is where he needs to be. Go give him a big kiss.
Leslie
petaloid
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I got my statement for my TSA yesterday and it was not good news. I don't retire for about three years and don't know if things will have recovered before then. I'm going to have to shift more of my annuity to a fixed account.
bigfoot_liz
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
many certified financial planners including suzy orman (& my dad) say move out of stock based funds 10 yrs ahead of retirement. i'm sure alot are wishing right now they had educated themselves on their holdings & risk. i've got almost 30 yrs till i'll be living off the interest from my investments and am on a buying spree...i have a co-worker who has been just giddy for days over all he can buy in stocks right now. i try to temper that by reminding him that we may be well prepared (i started at 19)to retire early & well off but one way or another we'll end up paying the price for those who are not. ~ liz
itsmesuzq
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I finally looked online today at my balances. I have a IRA from a rollover 401k, and my 403b with my current job. I have lost roughly $32,000 in 8 days!! And about $62,000 since August 6th. And if I bail out now I'll lose lots more. And my portfolio isn't even all in stocks! It's so sad to see all this hard earned money being lost everyday! My advisor at Fidelity is going crazy because the losses are straight across the board...not just stocks.

I am planning on retiring next July 1st, but I will wait to see how the months play out. I can stay longer if I want I was just hoping to be able to leave when I was 63.

The one thing is the government is finally stepping in and trying to stem the bleeding, but it feels like the levees are broken and we're all up to our necks in trouble. We all know how Katrina turned out.

So many things going on, world wide...it really makes you wonder. I have decided to hold on tight and try to think positive. I just wish I had the faith in "the powers that be" like I used to. But I honestly don't anymore.

I do feel blessed in so many ways though (I do have a job and I'm not retired yet) but I do feel very sad for the older folks who are depending on their IRA's etc. to help them live out their days.

Susan
grittymitts
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
When I heard/read about the &%$#!@'s like AIG top dogs I think it's time to give serious thought to holding old fashioned Public Hangings!

To see this story with its related links on the guardian.co.uk site, go to http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/07/creditcrunch.useconomy

Executives at bailed-out AIG stayed at $500 a night Californian resort
A week earlier the Federal Reserve had to extend a huge credit line to AIG to keep the troubled firm from collapsing
Andrew Clark in New York
Tuesday October 7 2008
guardian.co.uk

The world's largest insurance company, AIG, spent $440,000 (?250,000) on a lavish corporate retreat at one of California's top beachside resorts just a week after accepting an $85bn emergency loan from the US government to stave off bankruptcy.

Details of the getaway emerged at a congressional hearing today where lawmakers expressed outrage at AIG executives "wining and dining" at the height of a financial crisis.

An invoice from the St Regis resort in Monarch Beach, south of Los Angeles, shows that AIG spent $139,375 on rooms, $147,301 on "banquets", $23,380 on spa treatments and $6,939 on golf at an eight-day company event which began on September 22.

A week earlier, on September 17, the Federal Reserve had to extend a huge credit line to AIG to keep the troubled firm from collapsing due to vast liabilities on risky financial insurance policies.

"Average Americans are suffering economically," said Henry Waxman, chairman of the House oversight committee. "They are losing their jobs, their homes and their health insurance. Yet less than one week after the taxpayers rescued AIG, company executives could be found wining and dining at one of the most exclusive resorts in the nation."

Set in 172 acres of grounds on a bluff overlooking the Pacific ocean, the St Regis resort describes itself as "Tuscan inspired". Rates for its 325 rooms are typically upwards of $500 a night and the travel guide Fodor's gives the place a rave review, saying: "Exclusivity and indulgence carry the day here; you can even have someone unpack for you."

An AIG spokesman said the event was to entertain independent insurance salesmen of AIG American General - one of the company's main US operations which offers life, health and accident policies.

"It was a recognition event for independent agents of AIG American General who distribute insurance policies," said the spokesman. "It was planned months ago."

In written evidence to Congress, AIG's former chief executive, Robert Willumstad, blamed an "unexpected and unprecedented market-wide crisis of confidence" for the company's financial predicament.

AIG wrote off more than $50bn in unrealised losses on complex mortgage-related instruments such as credit default swaps. But Willumstad, who stood down as a condition of the federal bail-out, blamed mark-to-market accounting rules for accentuating the impact of the company's exposure, prompting downgrades by credit rating agencies.

"Looking back at my time as CEO, I don't believe AIG could have done anything differently," said Willumstad. "The market seizure was an unprecedented global catastrophe."

Copyright Guardian Newspapers Limited 2008
jemdandy
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
If you have a few more years to work, your IRA will recover unless you have a buch of junk funds. I'm retired and by a quirk of fate, I have 2/3 of mine in FDIC insured CDs, and that is what is saving me now. Even at that, the stock/fund portion has lost $138,000 since last November - I'm sick about it. I'm also mad because the FEDs lowered the interest rate over night to 1.5% Now I know this does not directly apply to interest bearing accounts, however, the this overnight rate that banks charge each other is used as an excuse for setting the CD rates. I have one more CD maturing before years end, and I'll be lucky if I can get 3% on renewal.

For years, the pundits have said we are bunch of slackers when it come to saving, but look what it gets us! When the bankers want to get cheap money, they lower the interest rate on your savings. In effect, this reduced interest rate effectively gives the banks almost free use of your savings. Tomorrow, the interest rate for an ordinary CD will barely match inflation which means you are loosing money because you have to pay taxes on the interest and that can lower its return below inflation. I'm hopping mad about the whole money grabbing business.

Although, I understand that the FEDs do have to act boldly and quickly to avoid a complete crash, and that would be no good for anyone. Anyone for discussing 'trickle down' wealth? How about we invert the system and have trickle-up wealth flow.

In my humble opinion, this whole mess was caused by immence greed by a few. Once one large finanical instution fell, the effect rippled through the others like a tsunami especially those who were using similar business practices.
alisande
Original Author
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
And the greed goes on. There is so much wrong with the current system, and I admit I don't understand half of it. Even if I did, I think it would still make my head spin.

Thanks for wringing your hands with me, everyone. It does help.
socks
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
It's making me sick.

Where is Joyful? This is his kind of topic.
bigfoot_liz
15 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
he's probably out buying up the bargains lol. saw a national news story last night about a mini housing frenzy going on in cape coral/fort meyers. there are thousands of condos, townhouses and homes brand new previously listed at $250-300K from builders going for $50-80K. can you say south fl vacation home lol??!!! i'm seriously thinking of it, heck if all i did was sit on it for yrs and resold in 10 i'd make something. you still can't get a starter home in orlando under $250K, never will cuz pricing in my neighborhood is starting to recover and houses are clearing out again in weeks. ~ liz

Wring your hands over the stock market here.

Comments (15)

susanjf_gw

vannie

Related Discussions

jannie

whidbeykathy

sue_va

okwriter

grammahony

petaloid

bigfoot_liz

itsmesuzq

grittymitts

jemdandy

alisande
Original Author

socks

bigfoot_liz

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Wring your hands over the stock market here.

Comments (15)

Related Discussions

alisandeOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

alisande
Original Author