Never assume they didn't put the giblet bag in a turkey just because you searched and searched and didn't find it. (I still maintain someone smuggled it in there afterward. That's my story and I'm sticking too it.) And of course this had to happen when the gossipy cousin was around to see it when chopping up the bird. She just *loves* spreading that story of my first Thanksgiving. Of course she fails to mention that *she* shortly thereafter learned that you shouldn't cook a ham while it's still in the plastic! And the demonic possessor inside me *loves* to counter with that story when she spreads my little boo-boo. Amazing how it's funny to tell about me but I'm awful for telling on her. I just say I at least didn't have to pick dripping plastic off the ham that she served...

Our problems are fixable, but we chose to deal with the behavior because the solutions are not workable right now. My previous dog, Megan, was like yours, cnvh - I learned how good she was when 8 month old Toby joined us. I let him in the back door and he got to my lunch and ate it! Megan would never consider doing such a thing, she would have left it unless it was given to her. We got her at two years old, so we cannot take credit for her training. Similarly, Casey was a year old and had already learned to be devious before we adopted him. We had things pretty well in hand in our old house, though. We were well-trained and Casey was "getting it". Then an 89 year-old dog-spoiling dad moved in and the dogs adapted to a new alpha who refused to learn what word to use when! I was amazed that they learned that "down" meant "sit" when grandpa used it, and that they had to wait patiently for him to finish and then he would share the rest of his meal with them. In our house, this is something we all had to adapt to because grandpa just was going to do things his way. Then grandpa went blind and caregivers started coming. Casey learned that as long as he puts his paws on the chair and not on grandpa, some people will let him clean the bits of food off grandpa's chest. Grandpa just laughs. Some people will shut the dogs out of the room when grandpa is eating, some won't. I figure if I can make sure Casey does not get anything harmful and no one else gets hurt, I am ahead of the curve. There are too many people in and out of this house to train, though I do have the main weekday caregiver fairly well in hand! ;-) Olga, your point about being lucky that they have not reverted to old behavior is a good one. I fear that I will make a mistake and Casey will get something that will hurt him, so I emphasize to all that SINCE he can reach the counters, it is our responsibility to make sure there is nothing there that he can get. With the two of us working full time, having shifts with Dad, and my orthopedic problems, our dogs do get the short shrift. I never thought I'd say that I can't wait to retire, but it is too far in the future for my tastes! I am just tired.

Sue...I think you need to get your westie a widdle steering wheel...remember those for kids? Our doggies love to stick their heads out the window...I drove them to the airport last week to get hubster...of course I had to wash the slobber off the windows when we got back...They start barking when I turn into the terminal...it's like they know where I'm going and who's gonna be their waiting for them!! Everybody just laughs when they see us pull up...I still need a lap puppy...that little guy with the bankey just made my heart melt...

lukkiirish, I started to do a DNA test on Howie but researching it I found that it's not all that accurate so I decided to save myy $85. According to 3 vets and research on line, he's mostly Australian Cattle Dog. Characteristics are spot on for an ACD but pictures don't quite match. But when I pull up pictures of Dingos, he looks more like them. Vet said ACDs have Dingo in them so perhaps Howie has more Dingo than most. It's funny because the first time I laid eyes on him and he bolted around the house, my immediate thought was Dingo or coyote. Whatever he is, we love him with all our hearts! :) With all we've had to deal with with him, I forgot, until today, that we haven't chipped him. When he goes in for his final heartworm check (to make sure the 3 month protocol worked) we'll chip him. oakley, you've got one more gate than we do (g) We first put the fence up to contain two chocolate labs. That didn't' work. They excel at digging holes :o And yep, we've had one of the Labs literally chew thru the fence when she was grieving her sister's death. We had to sedate her and within a week had adopted a dog for her. I wish Howie could be trusted to stay in the yard with us. He can't and he proved it again last night when our granddaughter let him out of the pasture. She's 8. She walked thru the back door and said "ok, I might as well get this over with cause I know I'm in trouble (lol)...I let Howie out of the gate and he took off. It wouldn't be so bad if he didn't do what he does. When he comes back, his white and ginger coat is black with stinky pond muck and sewage and/or cow patties he's rolled in. Last night I just hosed him off and was going to let him sleep outside. I was too exhausted to bathe him in the tub. It's a two man job. DH took the grandbabies home while I cleaned the kitchen and got ready for bed. When he got home at 8:30, I was in bed where I intended to stay for the rest of the night but he felt sorry for the escapee and said "I know you're going to miss your Dingo tonight so let's get him bathed". I think HE felt sorry for the Dingo! Your two dogs sound adventurous and free spirited and do just what country dogs do ;) Sounds like Lobo is the leader of the two. I don't think our Labs ever chased cows but our Dalmatians sure did and they got shot at too. Ranchers don't like their cows to run :o