devils advocate...if they didn't bring the kids maybe they couldn't have come at all esp if it came to having a baby sitter or performance...

they should, however, removed the kids if it was disrupting the show...i don't know why parents are so remiss in discipline these days...mine would have had something to distract (small toy or snack) and if that failed, removed...

This has always disgusted me no respect for the work going into a concert or play or for the participants or the audience. I've seen it time and time again. I always thought stay home if you cant find a sitter I still feel that way.

My kids would have been fine at those ages to go see a show. I always brought along snacks when we went to do things and made them stay sitting by me. If the kids couldn't behave, we would have left.

I feel the same way, if the children are not going to enjoy the venue, or cannot behave in public then leave them at home. If you cannot find or cannot afford a sitter, then you stay home as well.

I'm also one that thinks there should be a child/no child section in restaurants.

I've seen this happen so many times, in various places. Church services, weddings, funerals, restaurants. When my daughter was very small, if I had any suspicion that she may not be able to sit quietly in such situations, I either got a sitter, or did not go there. At the very least, I had a backup plan for handling it if she did become disruptive (bring something to distract her, or taking her OUT of there). IMHO, it's just more of the 'me first' mentality so many in society have these days.

Maybe the parenting skills are the root of the problem, not the kids. Kids need discipline. My kids were taught how to sit through things they thought were boring, even the symphony.

We always wait and go out to dinner later, usually at least 8 PM exactly for that reason.
I never understand why anyone would drag a child who should be in BED sleeping out to eat at that hour. They need to be in their own bed and sleeping. It never fails, just as our meal comes, so comes a couple with unruly toddlers. $50 down the toilet as far as I am concerned.

We quit going out to movies completely for the same reason.
We have 6 grandchildren and I love them..by the same token, I don't expect them to be enjoyed by everyone else.

They are plenty of family style places to take them, but it seems to me we are all just expected to enjoy their behavior no matter where they are..
I know I am getting less tolerant the older I get, but I sure don't understand the new parenting!

When my kids (2 daughters a year apart) were little (under 6) we never took them anywhere except to relatives' homes or drive in theatres. No restaurants, no movies,no shows, nothing. I remember taking them to a local fish restaurant, sitting with them between us at a booth, and they still acted up, spilling drinks. So I spent a dreary five or six years staying home with them. I remember once, my inlaws invited us to a restaurant dinner and I had to decline because I just couldn't trust the kids to behave. Later on, when they were older, we started taking them out, but it was mostly fast-food or family places where a little noise and a spill isn't much of a big deal. I don't understand people who bring their kids to public places and let them run around, fight and scream. My daughters are now 22 and 23. When they have their own kids, I would love to baby-sit.

Next year we will be going to the Friday night performance instead of the Sunday matinee.

I always took my dd everywhere, from the time she was an infant--to restaurants (yes, there were times I ended up eating my dinner at home, because DD wasn't behaving properly), to the theater (starting with children themed performances), etc. BUT if she started to act up, I handled the situation, and/or removed her from it if she was disturbing others. How is a child SUPPOSED to learn how to behave in public if they're banned from public places? By the time my DD was 4 or so, I could take her to legitimate theater, the ballet, etc (And I'm not talking about the recital put on by the ballet school at the corner, but The Philadelphia Ballet's performances), to tea shops or good restaurants, and she KNEW how to behave so she and those around her could enjoy the experience.

Why shouldn't children be allowed to go to see their relatives perform? I'm sure no family would have paid that price to go, otherwise. And yes--the parents should be making an effort to keep the kids from disturbing those around them. But I have far less of a problem with chilren acting as children than I do with the adults who go to those things and act like children. It was so bad, several times, when DD was in high school and in plays and concerts, that I considered marching myself up to the stage and telling the ADULTS in the audience how disrespectful they were being to their own children. I didn't--mainly because I worked for the Board of Ed, and figured an outburst like that wouldn't have endeared me to them.

Unless a child is truly being foul-mouthed or violent, or obviously in pain or being abused, I love seeing them get to go to something cultural. So few families bother these days. I'd have gladly sat next to those kids, and would probably have entertained them quietly, distracting them from being a problem to anyone else.

I had problems with my son from tiny to adult. He had some emotional issues. Both DD were pretty good. I learned to leave the kids home, most of the time,or took one or the other DD. But my youngest DD always took her girls and if they misbehaved, either her or my SIL would take the kids out and disaplined them. If they were real bad one or the other would stay in the car, but that was very rare.

It's a shame that so many people weren't able to enjoy the show Linda. The only thing that matters is that the parents didn't remove them from the area. Your not the parent. So many people thing their kids are something special, different from the rest..
We had the same thing happen recently when we suppose to be learning instructions for a wagon ride we were going on. The instructor told EVERYONE that they should be quiet so all could hear but of course a couple of 6 or 7 year old boys in front of us were carrying on and the parents didn't do much to get them to be quiet. I missed out on some of the instuctions dispite the older lady next to them trying to ssshhhhush them. These kids took some of the fun out of the whole deal. It doesn't matter if these kids were 1 or 25, they should have been listening quietly for their benifit as well as mine.

Was eating out with gs not too long ago, and mother with two kids were in the same room.

Her little boy was having a screaming fit, I mean really screaming fit, so she left the little girl at the table while waitres stood to watch.

Mother returned, sat the little boy down, and he proceeded to pitch another fit. She took him out again.

By that time, people at other tables asked to be moved to another area of the restaurant.

Mother came back, same thing, and she finally left without ordering.

As I sometimes point out, my grandson is autistic.
My DD and DSIL would not allow him to disrupt anything,
they would take him out. The funny thing is, he is able
to sit in a restaurant and eat when other "typical" kids
are noisy and running into the waiters and other people.
If the kids can't behave or are too young don't bring them.
You don't have the "right" to ruin other peoples' enjoyment

My husband and I have asked to be moved to another table
when we see an unruly child, or two, is going to ruin a meal for us...

Thanks azzalea! You pretty much said what I was thinking!

I have 2 DD's ages 3 and 6. I would have LOST my mind staying home for 6 years because of them possibly misbehaving. We go to tons of places with them. That's how they learn! If they act up you explain what's going on and give them a choice to behave or we leave. You just need to plan and be smart about it. With that being said, I have sacrificed many a time and passed on going places that wouldn't be realistic to bring my kids to (late night/long distance travel etc etc).

When we eat out, we usually aim for 5pm, or before the dinner rush, so no one is starving or cranky (DH included) and we make it home before bedtimes. We always have toys, books, snacks, diapers etc in the diaper bag. If we go to a show/ballgame we try and sit in the back or near the aisle, in case we need to make a quick exit. My oldest absolutely loves going to live theatre. Normally it's just the high school plays since they are local and cheaper. I would hate to think she would have missed all that because I was scared she might misbehave. I want to expose her to all kinds of activities like that. Mine would have been THRILLED to see their grandparents singing/dancing in a variety show.

Are my kids perfect? Certainly not. And we have left places early when they acted out, but a lot of people tell me how well behaved they are. We talk about it beforehand how everyone here is trying to enjoy the show so we need to be quiet etc. I am always aware of the people around me. But I think it's just a sign of the times that parents let their kids do whatever they want. They can't be bothered to put some effort into raising their own kids!

We were at a waterpark this weekend. They had a fenced in sand pit area. My 3 year old was having a ball and I was in there watching her. We noticed a 2 and 4 year old (NO PARENTS) being total brats to the other kids (stealing shoes, throwing sand, swiping toys). Literally 30-40 minutes later the parents breeze in, give the 2 year old a smack on the butt for trying to open the gate on the fence and left again like they were dogs in a crate or something. Suddenly felt pretty sad for the kids.

Add me to Lynn's vote for an adult only section.
Our Sunday paper had an article by a woman who spoke about taking her toddler to the art museum, where her daughter ran shrieking with delight through the halls, garnering "stern looks' from the docents, especially since mom could barely keep up with the child who was trying to touch the installations. The author thought this was all fine because her daughter was entertained.

Just a few moments ago, TG read a trip advisor review of the TItan Missle launch museum. Some guy was completely put out because he and his 18 month old were asked to leave. He explained that the child was yelling because he frustrated that he was not allowed to touch everything. He proclaimed the site to be "not toddler friendly". Ya think??

I understand that children need to have the opportunity to learn how to conduct themselves in a variety of settings, but a toddler on a titan missle tour? running through the art museum? When the kid is too young and can't handle it, the parent needs to have plan B. I am absolutely astounded that some parents are so inconsiderate of other patrons.

The senior center should have a playroom for the kids and a person to watch them like they do at church.

I believe it is a right of passage to join these events when you are a child. Poor parents, I think most are doing
the best they can and there are strong lectures before the performance. The kids don't grasp it yet so send them to the lovely young lady in the day room who has snacks for them (that might be me) and maybe a toy and a game. Lesson learned.

I think some are missing the point of Linda's original lament.

No one is saying you cannot take children to restaurants and events.

But the restaurants should be family places and the events should be age appropriate.

This was a senior center. The entertainment was most certainly geared to adults and seniors. That is not the place for children.

People with unruly children or even just bored fidgety children are not teaching their children anything. They are not exposing their child to culture. They aren't even thinking of their children. They want to do something so they take the poor kids along. You see it at all sorts of thing from sporting events to concerts. ME ME Me parents.

We took our children places. We took them to restaurants and fairs and parks and zoos and playgrounds. That's what parents do. They do not take their children to things they themselves want to do. There is plenty of time for the kids to do those things later. I didn't even take my kids to Disneyland until the the youngest was five. I wanted the memories to be their memories, not mine.

I respectfully have to disagree, wildchild. It was a production of the members of the senior center, of COURSE the families would want to come and support their relatives, and certainly the kids would LOVE to see their grandparents perform. That seems to me to be the perfect place to take children to give them experience going to theater/concert productions.

And honestly? most seniors just LOVE when kids come to visit. My aunt was in an assisted living facility and anytime the little ones (ages 3-7) came to visit her, they had to visit with pretty much everyone else in the place. The other residents would descent upon the kids, loving that they were there.

The parents certainly should have been handling the situation so that others weren't disturbed--I don't argue that fact, but banning children from events is only going to produce adults who don't know how to act appropriately in public situations, IMO.

I sometimes think that younger parents are totally immune to chaos. It's like they aren't even aware their kids are disruptive. Perhaps it's a combination of the erosion of public behavior, simple respect, and being inundated every waking moment with the sounds of technology moving at light speed (phones ringing, texts paging, video games, TV on 24/7). I don't think they even recognize inappropriate disruption.

I wonder if a lot of the lack of manners has to do with the fact that most families don't have meals together. They just graze..in front of the tv or computer... Family dinners were where manners were taught.. But then I'm on the close side to 60 & don't have children. so who knows, but I do know that as a paying customer, I am irritated by families with children who appear out of control and the parents who ignore them..

I agree with Azzalea 100 % - you said it all.

You have to remember that children learn how to behave properly, at home, as they mature, and many very small children are very well behaved in public places - because they have been taught to behave at home, in homes of family and relatives, and yes - in public places. No child learns how to behave in public at a magic age - and many have parents who have never learned that themselves.

My biggest pet peeve is the young school age children(say, 5-10) who run wild around a restaurant, speak loudly, and stand up on their seat in a booth, and leans over your shoulder, especially with dripping sauce from a chicken nugget. Yes, I have seen this, in a Applebees.

Any restaurant that tolerates this behavior never sees me again.

The production I was referring to was put on by the senior center but gets a big audience and is held at the city auditorium. I have never heard of any play or concert providing child care. I say, if you can't get a baby sitter, stay home.

what is sad is the reoccuring theme in all our posts...what has happen to parents, and OUR children, btw, that they cannot care for OUR grands the same way we cared for them???

i've had a few moments, but glad to say for the most part, i can take any of my almost 9 just about anyplace...

I posted above that my 9 yr old grandson is autistic
and that his parents don't let him disrupt meals out etc.
I should have added that they try to make outings pleasant for him by bringing plenty of books (his favorite), crackers, even headphones to block out too much noise around him. His behavior is usually very good, thanks to
them seeing to his needs.