Do not assume anything. Dovetails could be important or not. Let say the choice is between 3/4" dovetail drawers made out of solid maple or beech and 1/2 who knows what plywood that has butt joints fastened with a few brads. Hands down the dovettails will look better and last longer, especially the larger the drawer gets and more use it recieves. If the choice is btw. the maple dovetail and a stainless steel Tandem drawer from Blum then the durability is a wash and astetically it becomes beauty in the eye of the beholder. If its dovetail vs. doweled it becomes a crap shoot both ways. So the devil is in the details.

Re: installiation. Building cabinets is one art , installiation another. I have yet to meet a guy who is good at both. Kitchens really are a specialized business. In my little circle, designers design, fabricators build, delivery people transport, installers put it on the wall, appliance installers put appliances in the correct openings, stone masons do the countertops, ect.... No one even attempts to even try the other's jobs. At the other end Jimbobs Nephew's Cabinet shop sketches your idea on a napkin, he builds it , puts it in his pickup, stays at the jobsite 4 days and installs it, goes back to the shop, makes up a laminite counter, brings it back at put that in too. While he's there he helps the plumber hold the sink and DW, and the sparky hang the sconces. Most fall in between.

What I'm trying to say is mabey the cabinet MAKER has the skills and dedication to install what he makes and mabey he doesn't. Most makers are not good businessmen , so they feel pressured into doing things they don't like and/or are not good at. It all depends on the indiv. or business.

More due diligence is needed, it's not as simple as reading consumer reports, checking teh web for further confirmation and checking of bullet points on the action list.

I too like the idea of having a cabinet maker do installation. I haven't done it yet, so I don't know if it makes a difference (I do know the GC I used previously did a great job), but it does seem like it SHOULD make a difference.

I don't think dovetailed joints are important if the overall construction is good. In the old days when you had wooden slides and drawers stuck, you'd tug the heck on those drawer fronts and dovetails were probably pretty crucial. Nowadays, I think they are mainly just for spiffy looks. They ARE stronger, but it's not an important place to be strong. I'd base my decision on other things first.

In the day when the glues were not that effective, joints mattered. From what I've read, the glues of today form a
very strong bond. Dovetail joints require more work.

So, assuming they use good strong glues, you should be ok without dovetail joints. You might want to stay aways for "stapled" joints.

Unsure if we can say cbinet makers make good installers. If measurements are off, no one can rectify that. Having them build/install buys you the insurance - that they'll fix the problem as they can't blame someone else. Make sure you have a leverage to have them fix their mistakes, if any.

Plan well for all the plumbing, gas-line/outlet, electrical wiring/outlets/lighting, flooring, hood-vents, overhangs, toe-kicks, codes, (a)symmetry, etc etc. If possible get all parties to sign-off on the diagrams. Sometimes being off by a cpl inches can cause havoc (say, a gas-line hookup).

Go thru the motions in your mind's eye, validate things and schedule activities in a logical way.

Also, when you think the job is done, may want the counter-top installer to examine it and certify that all is well for them to install the conuters. Try to eliminate the possibility of "finger pointing"... Most of the guys are happy to blame the other :-)

/venkat

Dovetail joints are not necessary for a strong bond. Modern nails and adhesives are just as, if not stronger. Dovetail was important in an era when strength depended solely on the skill of the cabinet maker. This is JMHO.

Thanks Everone appreciate the feedback. Will try to make sure there are no other differences before we decide.

Antss, Looks like you work in this field. thanks for the detailed response. The drawers boxes are plywood it is the face that is solid maple. I will do more due delligence like you suggested before we decide.

I am going to humbly disagree with some of you. By all means dovetail joints are the strongest. Even with todays glues and nails. They are also the most difficult but with modern tools they are much easier. What you did not specify here is what joint this cabinet maker will be using. If it is a simple butt joint I would shy away. It will not make for a strong drawer especially in a kitchen. Now if he uses a locking rabbet joint which is also fairly commonly used on drawers and is probably second in strength to a dovetail it should hold up quite well. Either the dovetail or locking rabbet would be acceptable to me and anything else would make me question the cabinetmaker. Drawers are a very important place to have a strong joint.

As to installation it varies. Maybe it is just where I live but from what I have seen most of the cabinet makers do installations and the good cabinet shops are also good at it.

Are you sure that the dove-tailed drawer boxes will be plywood? I'm not a wood expert, but I think that the dove-tiled joints have to be made in solid hardwood, not plywood. It may be your cabinet boxes are plywood.

A drawer with dove-tailed joints will also be glued, in fact the dove tail allows for a much greater surface area to be glued, which is one of the reasons it makes the best join.

I would look at a sample of each drawer. The quality of dove-tailing can vary, so the dove-tailing itself does not ensure quality work.

Raehelen, dovetailed plywood is fairly common.

I agree with Antss that building and installation are two different skill sets. Sometimes they exist in the same people, but not necessarily. When you're building cabinets, everything is neat and regular and precise and square, but houses are inevitably wonky. Floors slope, walls lean and undulate, corners are never square; installation is largely about coping with these irregularities.

My parents have Merrillat builder grade cabinets without dovetail drawers. After 17 years not one drawer has failed (but they don't have little kids anymore, LOL!). I'm still unsure myself whether I will insist on dovetail for my project even though I always assumed they were a "must."

The cabinets we took out had stapled and glued plywood drawers with butt joints. They were about 35 years old and we never had a single problem with the drawers - even the 36" wide and 10" deep pot and pan drawers. Well done stapled and glued joints are strong enough. Dovetails in solid wood are stronger, but the stapled and glued are strong enough. Have you seen some of the ones your prospective cabinet maker makes? I've seen some pretty shoddy work in new houses - gaps in the glue or messy glue; unevenly spaced staples - our old ones at least had very tidy workmanship.

Our new cabinets have solid wood drawers with dovetails - I know I don't need them but they sure are pretty. Dovetails are a strong joint for solid wood where they make use of the strength characteristics of the grain direction, but they aren't good for plywood. Does the guy who does dovetails use solid wood for the drawer sides?

I consider the dovetails to be a nice aesthetic feature but not functionally necessary - I wouldn't have gotten them if doing so strained the budget or meant trading off a more important functional feature in my kitchen.

I don't think you need the cabinet maker to install to get a great installation. Our GC's installers did a very good job. But it may be convenient for you to have the cabinet maker install so you don't have to find someone else to do it and so there is no finger pointing.

I built my own cabs. Dovetailed the drawers only because i wanted to gain experience in dovetailing.

Reasons to have dovetails - they look pretty (if you are looking), can show off to the neighbors that you did your own dovetails, people think that the $$$ you spent were well spent

Reasons not to have dovetails - wood glue, pocket holes, and other joinery are MORE than sufficient for the load on a kitchen drawer. take a look at how flimsy the rest of the cabinet is...we took out 40 year old plywood, stapled, drawers and not one was broken...

Thanks everyone. We did take a look at the cabinets that were not dovetail joints the work was really good and construction seemed solide to me. Out current cabinets are also butt joint and we have been in this house for 7+ years and no issues ever. We are going to vist the cabinet maker with doveteail joints today will take a look there also. If I remeber right the drawer boxes are plywood not solid wood but will check again to make sure.
One more thing that I am considering to go with cabinet maker install the cabinets is because of tax considertaion. I beleive is CA if the Cabinet makers install the cabinets then it is considered a service and so no sales tax. Here the sales tax is 8.25% so the tax alone is 1000 dollars Ouch!

Dovetails are possible on plywood, especially if they're handmade. It may be that machine cutters don't do an especially neat job because of the different strata, so big factories don't do it or something like that.

Re sales tax, you'd still supposed to pay tax on the cabinets. It's just the installation portion that wouldn't be taxed.

We just ordered our last kitchen cabinet (part of an 8' long island) to replace a 5' section.. If you're going by lineal feet, then we're probably paying close to $600/LF for solid Maple fronts/drawers (cabinet sides are high-quality ply).. We got just about every option -including soft close drawers, dovetails, and pull out drawers with shelves for cans that will go back the full 30" depth of this island -- something I couldn't get on a store-bought cabinet. This place is near downtown LA and they do NOTHING but cabinets, they do not finish or install.. They've got a HUGE wood shop (probably about 1/3 to 1/2 the size of your local home depot) and everything is done by machines (table saws, routers, etc) and people (not a cookie cutter operation).. Could I have found a cheaper cabinet place? Sure.. Would I get something built like a tank like these cabinets? Perhaps.. However, I like the build quality these cabinets offer and they look great to-boot!

Just an update on my visit to the Cabinet makers work shop today. This cabinet maker is very small family shop with about 10 workers. The drawers are made of solid maple wood with dovetail Joints,Looks Like I was wrong about the information. I asked what kind of glides and hinges they use. He said that they use Blum hinges and glides. They Cabinets were well made. He also said that he would give all pull outs if where every I want and any other cutlerry dividers and so on that I need. He also helped us with the kitchen lay out. We will most likely make a decision in weeks time and after the responses here about how a Cabinet maker may not be the best installer. We may go with him.