Hi Amy2202! Your question is a very common one around here. See the thread linked below and give posting your layout a try. We'll be happy to give advice on it once you get it posted.

Here is a link that might be useful: Posting Pictures thread

38" aisles can be workable, depending on what's on each side of them. If you have ovens or fridges opening into an aisle of that width, it may be tough, or impossible.

Do you not have a scanner, digital camera, or cell phone that takes photos? Or can you borrow any of those things? That's all you need to be able to get the image on your computer, upload it to a photobucket.com, or other, photo site and link it here. Otherwise, if you describe in enough detail, with the right measurements, one of us may be able to draw it out and post it for you.

Wow that was fast. Thanks for the help. I will attempt to scan the drawing and post it when I get to my home p.c..
thank you very much.

OK{{gwi:1988495}} Hope this works. The measurements are in inches and of only the walls. Now that you have a picture I was hoping for some input on the best layout.
Thanks for all the help

Sorry if I am pointing out the obvious here, Amy, but you don't have 38" aisles here. You don't have anything. Did you post the wrong drawing by accident? You just have an empty room here. :) By the way, what is going on along that expanse that says "Living room"? Is that all open to the living room? Is there just a doorway? If so, how big is it and where along the wall is it located? You also need measurements on each side of the office opening. I am not expert at doing layouts, I just mention these points to help you get some kind of response a little sooner. If you ANY starting point beyond an empty room it is helpful to post it so people know at least what you are trying to do, where the plumbing is, etc.

Sue

Yep, as Sue said, we want to see the kitchen with the 38" aisles you were asking about. It's WAY too hard to ask us to start from a blank slate. We know nothing about you, what you want in the kitchen, etc., etc. Do you work alone in the kitchen? Do you bake a lot? Do you entertain and want room for guests or kids doing homework? If you have graph paper and can draw things to scale using the squares, it really helps to quickly see sizes and distances.

Hi Amy! Welcome! As others have mentioned, for us to come up w/recommended layouts, we need some additional information...it's probably best if you start at the beginning....

You may have already done some of these things, so just let us know the results so we can help you! Now to the process...

First step: Take the "Sweeby Test" It will help you define what it is you want out of your remodel (besides new "things").

Next, evaluate your current kitchen...what works, what doesn't AND what do you like, what don't you like (not always the same thing!) How many people will be working in the kitchen? Do you have children? These are just a few of the questions to ask yourself. See Beginning a Kitchen Plan

* Start thinking about your budget

Design

Layout: Once you've figured out what it is you want from your new kitchen, it's time to start thinking about the layout itself.

* The best place to start is to draw up your kitchen (to scale, if possible) without cabinets & appliances. [You've done this...but I do have a question about the "south" (bottom) wall...how far from the two walls is the office doorway?]

* If you cannot move plumbing or gas, mark them on your drawing as well.

* Mark all doorways & windows (w/dimensions) and label them as to where they lead. If they're actual doors, mark how they swing.

* It also would be helpful to see the connecting rooms, even layouts so you see how they interact with the kitchen and/or extend the kitchen feel and flow.

Make a list of things like:

* What is your goal E.g., more counter space, more storage, seating in the kitchen (island? peninsula? table?), etc.

* Do you plan to merge two rooms/areas (e.g., Nook and Kitchen into a Kitchen only)

* Where are you flexible?
.....Can windows or doorways change size?
.....Can they be moved?
.....Can windows be raised/lowered?
.....Can any walls come down?
.....Does the sink have to be centered under a window?
.....Does it have to be under a window at all?

* Do you bake? Do you want a coffee/tea/beverage center?

* What appliances do you plan on having (helps to figure out work flow, work zones, and types of cabinets...upper/lower vs full height, etc.)
.....Range or Cooktop?
.....Single or Double or no Wall Oven?
.....Warming Drawer?
.....MW? (Advantium, drawer, OTR, countertop, built-in, shelf?)
.....DW? Standard or drawers? If drawers, 1 or 2?
.....Refrigerator CD or standard depth?
.....Vent Hood?
.....Other?
Sizes of appliances (e.g., 30" or 36" or 48" cooktop; 36" or 42" or 48" wide or other Refrigerator? etc.)

* Pantry: Walk-in or cabinets?

***** Very Important *****

Is there anything you:
* Can't live without?
* Definitely don't want?
* Would like if we can find a way?

We can help you with your layout without this information, but it will be closer to what you want if we have it. Sometimes we stray from what you think you want to give you some ideas that you might not have thought of, but it's your kitchen and you can veto anything...we may argue for something (we're good at that!), but in the end it's what you want. And remember, nothing is ever cast in stone here and in the end when you finalize your design it's whatever you, your SO, and whoever else has a say decides on!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Good luck and welcome the world of TKO (Totally Kitchen Obsessed!)

HTH!

[Kitchen Forum Acronyms]

Kitchen Forum FAQ

sorry everyone. The drawing is the walls after the demo is started. Currently the kichen is divided by a wall between the windows. I would like to keep the doors and windows where they are and the sizes. The walls along the office are 80" and 49".( I guess they did not show when scanned, sorry again). Sue ct the wall along the living room is a solid wall. We were thinking of doing a pass through window to open into living room. The 38 ' aisles would be there once you install base cabinets.
My wish list:
36" induction cooktop or hybrid
30" double wall ovens (installed where current pantry is)
as large an island as can possible fit ( We currently have a peninsula between d/r and kitchen and would like to see if island will work.) we do alot of entertaining.
single bowl sink under 42 " window. ( plumbing is there now and we like it there now)
chimney hood over cooktop. ( we were thinking of putting cooktop between windows)
24" dish washer
counter depth french door style fridge,(possibly at corner of 59" wall and dining room, if we can fit island)
ceilings are only 7'5"
I hope this helps and thank you all for all the help so far
I have been looking at so many designs but just can't seem to come up with one that works

Here's one possibility.

Pantry: I wasn't sure about the pantry since it didn't have any dimensions. I don't know what's between the two bumpouts, but I expanded the existing pantry. If it could be a little longer, that would give you more room. The only big drawback I see for it in this location is that it's so far from the garage entrance when you're bringing in groceries. It is, however, easily accessible to the rest of the kitchen. If this doesn't work at all, let me know. Meanwhile, I may have another idea but I didn't get a chance to draw it up yet. (I'm at my parents' house until tomorrow night so my "Kitchen" time is limited!)

Island: Since you do a lot of entertaining, you probably need a fairly large island. If you do not fill the LR wall w/cabinets, you can have large island. Not only will it be great for entertaining, but also for baking, projects, homework (if kids), etc.

Prep Sink: Your kitchen is so long that it would definitely benefit from a prep sink. Additionally, it expands the available prep space. You now have 3 great prep spaces (not counting the island) to use depending on what you're working on and how many people are in the kitchen: to the left of the main sink, b/w the main sink & cooktop, & b/w the cooktop & prep sink. There's a sink available for each. Also, if someone is cleaning up or if you have dirty dishes stacked in the main sink, you have another one available.

Refrigerator & Ovens:
The refrigerator's location is easily accessible from the garage (unloading groceries), all 3 prep areas, the island, and DR/LR.

The MW is b/w the refrigerator and the wall ovens and the counter below the MW serves as landing space for all ovens & refrigerator (oven landing space is also available to the right of the prep sink).

Since you entertain a lot, a large refrigerator is probably a necessity...but I don't know how you feel about a 48" one! If it's 36", it gives you another 12" of space b/w the refrigerator & wall ovens.

Oh! And you have great aisle clearances!

Let me know what you like/don't like...but I probably won't be able to get back to this until later this evening.

WOW, buehl, that is the best looking design we have seen so far with out a doubt. I guess we are so used to seeing cabinets in l/r wall it is hard to picture the island there, but we like it. Not sure of total dimensions of island, it looks like it goes into d/r a little. are the dotted lines the cabinets below counter top?
are the aisles measured from toe kick or counter top?
I don't think we can fit pantry where you have it because of head room going down stairs.(prior owners made a make shift pantry above stairs to create head room . hard to explain.)
will there be enough room when coming from office door and wall ovens. It is so hard to picture the whole layout until I open up existing kitchen (hopefully this weekend).
what do you think of not having cabinets on l/r wall like you have and putting some type of pass through, it will be some major structural work but do able.
Wandering what else you have in mind.

thank you so much so far

If you want LR access, why not just create a nice arched, or other architecturally interesting, doorway into the LR from the Kitchen? You're not generally serving food in the LR (or, are you?) so a passthrough is not really very useful--in most cases; but a doorway is.

Something to think about.

buel, it was just a thought. We do not need to create a whole new entry way into l/r, we just thought it would open up the area with just a window type opening since with your design there will be no cabinets on that wall.
any other design ideas or suggestions.
thanks

Got your email, Amy, so I am back to study this and ask questions:

Buehl did do a good job working from a blank space, but you asked me to look at it, so forgive me if I seem to be picking it apart. It's not because I don't like it, but because I think it's helpful sometimes to point out possible downsides or changes, even if they end up being dismissed. It's just nice to have thought them through.

Other than entertaining, we don't know a lot about you, your family, and how you use your kitchen... Do you bake a lot? Do you have kids? Older or young? Would they do homework, play games, or do other activities in the kitchen? Do they or dh work with you? Think of the future, too...Life changes fast!

Do you like the island facing the living room or would you rather have it toward the dining room? If your guests are coming from the dining room end, do you want the island to be a stopping point, preventing them from entering your work space, or is it ok with the workspace open to the dining room?

I would like to see the prep area somewhere not so far removed from the action. I like a prep sink to be multipurpose, if possible.

Talk to me about the pass through. Would this be your way to communicate with others as you work in the kitchen? Is this something you've really wanted (Do you want a much more open kitchen), or is it just a design idea for that wall area? Is your living room formal or is it your only real public space in absence of a family room? Is it where you entertain?

My family is wanting me to join them for a New Years Eve movie, so I will look at this and think on it some more, and hope you have some answers to questions, too. :-) Happy New Year!

rhome thanks for the reply. Answer to your questions:
no we don't bake alot but we do cook alot togeather.
1 five year old.
Yes we use our current peninsula for every thing but we would like an island.
The pass through came up because of buehl's design and the empty wall between kitchen and l/r.( we currently have wall and base cabinets with fridge along that wall.)We have an additional family room which is next to d/r, but during big gatherings the l/r gets used also.
we love buehl design and island but would just like some other inputs, which brings me to my original question.
With cabinets along l/r wall, fridge on opposite wall b/w sink and d/r will there be enough room for aisles if we did an island.
thanks and happy new year to everyone

With the placement of the sink in Buehl's drawing, it'd be crowded to put a fridge on the dining room side of it. The only other plan I came up with last night that was even close to Buehl's in practical use of the space is to put the fridge where you propose, put a prep sink where she has the main sink and move the clean up area to where she has the fridge and ovens. (I was trying to get the prep area and prep sink out of the back corner.)

Anyway, to answer your question. You have 161". If you put standard depth cabinets on the LR wall, and have the fridge on the window wall, that's about 50" (since counter depth fridges are a little deeper than 24" with doors). This leaves you 111" for aisles and island. Putting 42" aisle in front of the fridge and sink, and a tighter 36" on the LR side of the island (no room for seating on that side), you'd have 33" for an island. So, it depends on how large you want the island and how you want to use it. You could have shallower storage on the LR wall to give the island a big more room/more depth. Does this help?

With your island idea where would stools fit and is a 33" island enough in todays lifestyle. I guess I will have to make props and try out different layouts to get a much better picture of size and placement. Also moving the sinks to any other walls would cause too much mechanical problems.
You mentioned shallower storage on l/r wall, what type cabinets would work?

Shallower cabinetry: I was thinking of full height cabinets about 12-16" deep...a wall of cabinets. I think it could be very useful storage.

I think you could probably stretch the island to 36" and fit seating at stools on the LR side if you used the shallow cabinets on that wall (Probably could only go to 36" if you used 12" deep wall cabs). But with standard cabinets on that wall and the resulting 36" aisles, that would be too tight for the combination of seating, any traffic behind, and any access to cabinets on the LR wall...So with standard depth cabinets on both walls and 33" island, I wouldn't say there was room for any island seating.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the garage comes in at one end of the kitchen and the DR, LR, and FR (??) are off the other end of the kitchen, which means there will be quite a bit of traffic through your kitchen...unless there's another way around or the garage entrance is not used much. How is it now?

If it is the only way (or the main way) you get from the outside to the living areas, then you really need 45" - 48" aisle space b/w the long wall (right side) and the island and the rest of the kitchen.

Good point, Buehl. You hopefully want to design things so that people coming through are encouraged/want to take a path that's NOT through your work zone. If the other path is narrow and crowded with stools into it, they will avoid it. (I almost said 'with loose stools in the way,' but that brought to mind totally the wrong picture!)

Crowding too much into a space will usually just make it uncomfortable and disappointing to use. It seems in this case you might have to decide between seating at the island and cabinets on the LR wall.

well we do have other access to the outside but most times we come in from the garage or office area. I think the only thing to do right now is to put up make shift props and see how the flow will be. Buel we love your design but just hate losing the l/r wall cabinets. we were thinking of doing like rhome said and going with 12" deep and create a hutch style design on that wall and going with a narrower island with stools under counter of island. (does this make sense the way I described it.
Also to open up flow would it make sense to move fridg and wall oven to wall along office. (something like a corner wall oven. I don't know just a thought.
rhome I see in your earlier post that you were thinking of using monogram appliances, what did you go with?
We are considering using all monogram appliances including induction cooktop.
thanks again

Just looking at your kitchen and dining for entertainement purposes I think I would want to open the kitchen up some to the living room with a walk through openining so that people can circulate from different rooms to the kitchen. In my house most people always end up in the kitchen area and having it cut off makes it harder to socialize outside of the kitchen. Only way in would be the dining room, garage, basement, or office which only the dining room seems like a good place for entertaining.

Amy, we had considered the Monogram ZET2 wall ovens (the new model), but ended up with Fisher-Paykel. I think it was a close competition, and if I hadn't found a 'scratch and dent' for less than the Monogram price, I don't know which way I would have gone. I read raves about the Monogram oven all the time lately, and I loved them in person. The FP had a couple features I found hard to pass up, though, even for the amazing Monogram racks.

I couldn't consider induction, even though I REALLY wanted it, because one of my criteria for the new kitchen was 4 or more large burners, and most induction units have 1.

I would have loved to have the Monogram all-fridge and all-freezer units instead of the Electrolux we got, but they were too expensive for us.

So, the short answer is we ended up with no Monogram appliances...But it's not because we decided anything bad about them, except price and our particular needs.

Re: Corner oven. I don't think you have enough room on the office wall for a corner oven. Alku05 has a corner oven stack and if you check her thread you'll see that you need 4' of room on each "leg" of the corner; you only have 3'. I'm not sure what the maximum size cabinet you can fit in the corner with that window, but I doubt it will be anything very usable.

If you're concerned about walk space b/w the left refrigerators, etc. and the right wall, you have plenty...5' is actually a very respectable clearance...more then enough even for a major thoroughfare!

Island & LR Wall: If you flatten the island you gain enough space on the LR wall for the shallow (12") cabinets you mentioned, but you lose a seat on the island. You need 2' per seat and w/a 6' island that means only 3 seats. You'll still only have 36" clearance b/w those cabinets & the island. Another thing to consider, do you have the 16.5" or so b/w the LR wall and the pantry door to fit those cabinets? [12" cabinet + 1.5" overhang (if using a counter) + 3" door molding]

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread: Davewg, here's some corner oven pictures for you

Here are a couple more...one has a peninsula instead of an island (Amy2202 #2) and the other has a flattened island w/the shallow cabinets along the LR wall that you really seem to want (Amy2202 #3). Both move the oven stack to the office wall and have a corner cabinet Message Center across from the office door and next to the garage entrance. They also both eliminate the tiny pantry.

#2 puts a dish hutch in that cubby area extended into kitchen area by 24". It also has 42" of pantry cabinets on the refrigerator wall (the other side of the MW).

#3, instead, recesses the MW into that cubby along with a counter and base cabinet below the MW. It also has a pantry on the refrigerator wall, but it's now 45" wide.

I like #3 best except it doesn't have any nearby landing space for the refrigerator and pantry.

BTW...there is plenty of room b/w the office wall cabinets and the Pantry/Refrigerator...42+ inches.

One other thing in #3....I took a 21-inch portion of the cabinets on the LR wall and made it a utility cabinet for brooms, mops, sweepers, etc....unless you already have a place for them. Then I put a similar looking cabinet the same width on the DR end to balance it out. Then, perhaps put glass-fronted upper doors in the cabinets b/w them.

+++ Amy2202 #2 +++

+++ Amy2202 #3 +++

Buehl, I beleive we may have a winner. #3 looks like it, curious what the corner message cabinet, looks like any links or pics.
We should be able to fit mw cabinet in that space, We thought of going with smaller width pantry next to fridge and adding base cabinets to gain counter space and add uppers above.(what do you think)
What are any concerns of having ovens so far from sink and island. Will I need roller skates?
Thank you for everyones help!!!!!