I would want a panel, I think, to overlay the side of the fridge panel that matched the doors and made that whole side flush.

I don't really understand the positioning of the fridge shifted to one side, so I can't really comment how the appearance of the front edge of that part is going to play out. In general though, these are the types of things that happen with semi custom cabinets built on a 3-inch increment: there will be inconsistencies like that to the right of the cabinet to allow for that short panel. However, I am not sure why the left panel has that sliver of material between the cabinet and the panel unless the cabinets in the back stuck out too far. It makes it more asymmetrical than it would be with the panel against the left side of the upper cabinet as well.

I might want to problem solve with the contractor on that whole left side issue.

Hi palimpsest, thanks for the quick response, and your detailed comments.

I should probably explain about the positioning of the fridge. Currently, we have a 30" wide standard fridge (bottom freezer). It's only a few years old, so we didn't want to have to buy a new one. However, we wanted that fridge space to allow for having a wider cabinet-depth fridge in the future. So, we had the plans specify a 36-inch wide space, and have a 6-inch piece of cabinet stock on the lefthand side, to fill in the rest of the space (30-inch fridge + 6 inch stock piece). I'm having the GC hinge that piece so that it can act as a little door and we can keep tall thin things like the Swiffer and broom in that area between the left side of the fridge and the panel.

In general though, these are the types of things that happen with semi custom cabinets built on a 3-inch increment

Yeah, I hear you! What bugs me though is that the KD said there was no extra charge with Woodmode/Brookhaven for non-3-inch increments here. At the moment, it looks to me that the installer had to add an additional spacer piece between the above-fridge cab and the long left side panel. But the KD was there after demo to take the final measurements before the cabinet order, and (given my understanding) could have ordered the above-fridge cabinet with an additional 3/4 inch to avoid that spacer. (And in the photo, the spacer looks wider than the panel, which would make it > 3/4 inch, and more like an inch itself).

So that's why I don't understand why the above-fridge cabinet shouldn't at least be symmetric in the space between the long panel on its left and the short panel on its right.

Maybe the best is for the installer to divide the spacer's width in half, and add each half to either side of the above-fridge cabinet (so that it is at least a symmetric gap on either side). Something like:


Long panel (3/4 inch) + 1/2 inch spacer + Above-fridge Cabinet + 1/2 inch spacer + Short panel (3/4 inch)

Thanks!
Lee

I built mine myself and they're symmetrical. 30" fridge in a 36" space. They're centered, which is a better word.

I also have panels all the way down to the counter top (and the floor, actually) on both sides of my fridge. I don't understand why yours on the right stops.

If you see it now, you'll see it later, although no one else probably will unless you draw attention to it. When you get a larger fridge, it'll stand out.

Now is the time to have it corrected, not later. I would.
BTW. I love your kitchen.

It took me a while to understand what your first concern was. The gap between the fridge cabinet door and the adjacent cabinet door is wider than the gap between all the other upper doors. That seems entirely caused by the half panel between the fridge and microwave.

It looks to me like you (or someone) decided NOT to buy an actual refrigerator cabinet. A refrigerator cabinet would have sides that go all the way down to the floor the same width as the cabinet. Instead you bought a regular wall cabinet and added a panel on either side, thereby increasing the door gap on both sides which is very noticeable with full overlay doors. To make matters worse, it looks like you may have a 33" cabinet and the spacer on the left pads it out to 36", or something like that. Maybe the spacer was needed to align the left side with the wall behind? Looking at your drawing it seems you're going to use a 30" fridge with a 6" spacer on the left so it's best they put the spacer on the left side. It'll be totally unnoticeable once the fridge is in there. When the kitchen is done you'll probably be the only one who notices the gap on the right and the spacer on the left will be lost by the even bigger spacer next to the fridge.

I think it looks a bit Mickey Mouse but it's not horrible. A real refrigerator cabinet would have been better and the right side would have gone all the way down. I can't say whether you got what you ordered or someone shafted you. If you got what you ordered then it's livable.

As for the protruding door panel on the left side, you can add a fake door on the side to match and it will look fine.

Wow CEFreeman, you are so spot on about this: When you get a larger fridge, it'll stand out.

Thanks for using the "centered" word. That'll help talking with the GC.

About why the panel on the right stops, all I can say is "I don't know".

I feel completely stupid about it, because it's that way in the KD's final plans, and I signed off on it. The final drawing shows the microwave going into that rectangular space, with a shelf underneath it. But I recall a long-ago conversation with the KD about having the panel come all the way down to the counter (and I flipped back through my notebook and found mention of having the panel come all the way down)--and I don't have any notes about when the design changed to a short panel.

Well, while I feel dumb about the short panel, I feel better about talking with the GC about making the above-fridge cabinet centered now, thanks! :-)

And CEFreeman, thanks for the compliment about the kitchen! I cannot tell you how much I'm looking forward to it being finished. :-)

--Lee

How wide is the actual space between the panels for the refrigerator? How wide is the actual face of the cabinet above the fridge not counting the spacer or tacked on side panels?

Hi grumpydave--thanks for responding! I was typing my response above to CEFreeman and just saw your response after I posted mine.

Instead you bought a regular wall cabinet and added a panel on either side, thereby increasing the door gap on both sides which is very noticeable with full overlay doors.

Yes, your description is correct. It is a wall cabinet with panels on either side. There are reasons why I choose to do that (having to do with wanting to avoid the deeper above-fridge cabinet that we'd get with the more standard actual fridge cabinet with long sides).

I think that I don't mind having an increased door gap on *both* sides, even if that wouldn't match the gap in the rest of the wall cabinets. It's more what CEFreeman pointed out: that the cabinet doesn't look centered. (And is there some way to have it look more centered--like an equal gap on both sides of that cabinet?). So that it looks more intentional--because the same width is on each side.

It'll be totally unnoticeable once the fridge is in there.

While I'd hope that would be the case, what I'm worried about is that by then, it'll be too late to adjust it.

Thanks!
--Lee

There is a lot to raise eyebrows at about your fridge install.

The short panel is just one - noticeable now and always, in my opinion. It should be fixed.

While I see the spacer on the left side of your above-fridge cabinet, I can't tell whether it is the same or different to the installations on the other side so hard to comment.

However, the thing that sticks out to me more than the asymmetric fridge placement (which, if you're planning to utilise the space as a broom closet is better to have all 6" on one side than to have 3" on either side which will render the space unuseable), is that you have a sort-of box for the fridge but that it is only partial depth. Why would this not be to the full depth of at least the base cabinets?

I also see some notes about recessing the fridge somewhere and, although the perspective is such that it doesn't appear that the cement board is giving you any recess-room, that might be the case. However, when/if you get your 36" fridge, it doesn't look like you'll be able to recess it. A "cabinet-depth" fridge is the depth of the base cabinets, not the uppers.

Frankly, of all your fridge area woes, it is the fact that it seems to me that your fridge will be partly inside a cabinet and partly not, that stands out most prominently to me. I think you should have a chat with the KD about realizing this design. This looks most awkward.

I'm sorry that your vision for the area didn't flush out IRL. Been there with my fridge and pantry area also.

It seems you have a few problems. The behind-the-fridge panel can be easily fixed by adding another end panel on the side of the fridge as noted by others. The panel on the right of the fridge that ends in mid-air for no apparent reason is strange. I'd love to know what the KD was thinking on that.

I'm curious why you didn't order a regular fridge cabinet. As it is now, you won't be able to use the cab on top because it'll be recessed so far back. The house we stayed in during our whole house reno was like this. I had to get a chair to stand on to get into that cab, and I'm 5'8". Even with a cab depth future fridge, you'll still have difficulty reaching it. My old kitchen's fridge was old and shallow (close to today's cab depth ones) and I had trouble reaching all the way in there also.

I didn't notice the fridge cab not being centered even after reading your description. I had to read and re-read to get it. I see it no that you mentioned it. But if you add another end panel on the right of the fridge, it'll throw off the symmetry in that area even more.

I agree that now is the time to correct the problems. Your GC and KD are probably more likely to work with you now than later when it's done. Good luck!

I think you should leave it uncentered. Try to minimize the gap between the fridge cabinet and the cabinet on the right because those doors should be as close as possible to each other. The bigger the gap the more noticeable it will be and it will throw off the whole effect across the uppers. Leaving a bigger gap on the left won't matter because there are no adjacent doors there. Assuming that filler was needed for some reason, I completely agree with the installer who put it on the left. If the spacer were wider then I'd say center it but as it is the imbalance doesn't seem that noticeable. Especially because no matter what size fridge you eventually have, you'll always have it butted up to the right side so there's not a big gap between it and the counter top.

I also agree with mindstorm, there are built-in problems with your design.

We had our brookhaven frameless cabinets installed this past summer. I think the difference with your doors on top of the fridge is that they are framed, so that is the gap you see. In my kitchen, the doors above the fridge are flush with the front of the side panels. Also, my panel between the refrigerator surround and the cabinet goes from the top molding all the way to the floor, so I'm not sure why your KD wouldn't have ordered it that way. I think this is going to look awkward. What is the material of the side of your fridge? Most are plasticy material and not a finished material like the front of the fridge.

I've never seen a fridge with half-depth enclosure. Usually it's fully enclosed (and the cabinet above is 24" deep) or not enclosed at all (and the cabinet above is standard 12" deep).
I don't know why a narrow door panel was used at the end, nor understand why the panel was pushed all the way back. It draws attention to the bare plywood end, and can't do it's job properly, which is specifically to make a dead end look like another cabinet by covering the expanse of featureless plywood. This one says "look at the featureless plywood standing next to me! And the fridge end next to it!"
I think once the fridge slides in it will look even more jarring and purposeless. A perpetual WTF. The designer needs to explain himself.
Casey

Hmmm, are we all misunderstanding your plan? The cabinetry is very pretty but this fridge area is way too weird.

If there's void space behind the fridge, why is there a cabinet (#1, 18" deep) in part of it, rather than recessing the fridge back under the over-fridge cabinet and into the space created by the side panel? Are we not understanding correctly? If the fridge is really intended to stick out with half it's sides showing as the plan view shows, that is going to look very awkward, I think...

I think a chat is in order.

One thing: don't apologize. Get the words, "I'm sorry, but..." out of your head. This belongs to you, you're paying for it, you'll be living with it, and you need to get what's right in YOUR eye. Now is the time to make any changes that are offending your eye. The minute you use "I'm sorry" you become the bad guy and demanding home owner.

Just use "I'm not happy with the way this looks & I need your help getting it corrected."
Frankly, at this point, the whys of it are irrelevant. You'll probably be presented with many whys, but again, they don't matter. They're usually used to get out of work or not have to spend time or money changing something. Fix it for your eye before it goes any further.

The way I see it, if I'm understanding it, is that you can have a tiny, skinny broom closet right now and have an off-center fridge with a weird depth and side panels for the rest of your life. Your call!

Good luck. I'm interested to see what happens.

Christine

So how did it go, Lee? As stated, what you have is a little unusual but it's not untenable. It can work. Are you making any adjustments?

I think the short panel is to enclose the microwave and has nothing to do with the fridge. I wouldn't mind the gap too much if I planned on using it as a magnetic board.

I dunno about the rest of it. Fake doors on the bald panel at the fridge's side. The above-fridge doors aren't terrible but I'd want them centered. They MIGHT be adjustable in place--the hinges are made to wiggle some and you might be in the wiggleroom still.

In spite of it all, this is looking good!

What are the fake doors you guys keep talking about? In the plan, I see that those doors on the panel on the left of the fridge are for an 18" deep cabinet there. What am I missing here?

I think it NEEDS fake doors, or doorish panels, next to the functional ones on the side of the fridge because they look lonely.

Hi everyone!

I am sorry for the delay in responding. It has been a crazy day, starting with some parental health issues that, while turned out to be minor, took a better part of the day with visiting the doctor, tests, etc.

You are all awesome!! Especially given that I didn't explain why we chose not to do a regular, standard fridge cabinet with the sides fully enclosing the fridge. I left that out explanation of my initial post because I thought it would make it way too long. So here's the background about that.

Why we didn't choose a regular fridge cabinet
The best way I can explain this is to show you the before kitchen. The fridge is at the end of a run. When you come through the dining room doorway (which is the door beyond the fridge, on the left of this picture), it's almost like a little hallway, because the before kitchen had a 20 inch wall on your left hand side, before you got to the fridge, and reached the main part of the kitchen.

This is looking towards the dining room. You can see the original fridge space:

And here's the "user experience" of coming from the dining room, into the kitchen, in the before kitchen. See where the 2008 cloth calendar is hanging in the pic? That's about 20 inches of void space behind the fridge. That's where the behind-fridge pantry gets installed in the after kitchen:

In the before kitchen, there was a lovely view that was not visible because it's right in the corner of the house. So, part of the reno was to add two windows tight into the corner to maximize the view.

Before:

Mocked up in the BHG software:

So, in the planning stages, before the reality of seeing the gutted walls and new windows and new walls:

- From mocking up in the BHG software and stepping through from the dining room into the kitchen and imagining how it would look, I convinced myself that having a regular fridge cabinet would make that passage seem too hallway like. That having a cabinet flush with the top of the fridge would delay the impact of coming into the room and seeing the effect of the windows and light and view.

- And in working the layout, as there is really no other place to put the fridge, given how we wanted the new windows, the best would be to make it look more old-fashioned, and not "enrobe" the fridge with a regular fridge cabinet. This is an old house (1880's), and I grew up in a house that was from the 1930's, and our fridge was similar with a wall-depth cabinet above. So, I didn't think it would be too odd of a choice, given that it allowed for maximizing the sightline of the view coming into the room.

About recessing the fridge and planning for a future fridge
In terms of recessing the fridge, that is because we have a regular full-depth standalone fridge, and I knew the before kitchen had a void space behind the before-fridge space. (That "hallway" of 20 inches where the 2008 calendar appears in the Before picture above). So, we came to this idea of recessing the full-depth fridge back into the void space so that its front is flush with the base cabinet next to it.

Along the way, a KD suggested that building for a future larger fridge would be "smart", and to allow for an extra 6 inches for a wider, cabinet-depth fridge. That's where the idea of a 36 inch wide space came from. The extra 6 inches would get a little hinged door/broom closet space, until the time when we or someone down the road wanted a 36 inch wide fridge.

In hindsight maybe it would have been more in keeping with the old-fashioned look to not have any panels around the fridge at all, and not try to plan for any future fridge. I can see now that having shorter width panels might not even work with a future fridge, if those aren't finished on their sides and one would want them covered up anyway.

Overall, our KD has been pretty awesome, considering that I'm sure I frustrated her at times for trying to go out-of-the-box with our kitchen. While I don't recall her initial design, she probably did suggest a regular fridge cabinet, and only changed it when I brought up the point about wanting to get the impact of the light and view as I walk into the kitchen from the other room.

I'll post another response next with the upshot of what happened today with the GC. :-) I just wanted to provide the pics and explanation of why we didn't choose the regular fridge cabinet.

I'll also try to grab a photo of the perspective of the new windows, to try to show why I'm jawing on about the view and perspective so much. :-)

Thanks so much for all of your input and advice! I do appreciate it very much.

--Lee

"I think the short panel is to enclose the microwave and has nothing to do with the fridge."

my thinking also. I also wondered why there isn't a bottom shelf for the mw to set on? it's just gonna hang on the back wall/side panels?

OK, I haven't yet got a good daytime photo of the new windows up on Photobucket, and I'm still traveling due to the holiday weekend so I can't take a current one yet. I'll put that on my to-do list for when I arrive back at home. (DH is holding down the fort there.)

Here're are some answers to questions that were posed:

What is the material of the side of your fridge?
Hi brianadarnell, the current fridge is the typical freestanding fridge. While the sides are more "pebbly" than the front, the sides are all finished. It's the same fridge that's in the Before pictures above.

I hadn't realized (until you pointed it out) that a lot of cabinet-depth fridges don't have finished sides. The one we have is the first one I ever shopped for. So the idea of future replacment with a wider, cabinet-depth fridge might be moot for us now, if unfinished sides would stick out beyond the shorter side panels. I think I can live with that (as my penance for not having thought through that aspect of the future).

Usually it's fully enclosed (and the cabinet above is 24" deep) or not enclosed at all (and the cabinet above is standard 12" deep).

Hi Casey, yes, that's the nail on its head: usually it's not enclosed at all and the above-cab is the standard 12" deep. That's how the Before kitchen was, and I was OK with that look to avoid having too much of a hallway feel coming in from the other room. I think what might have bolluxed up the design was my notion about the whole "future expansion" that I didn't think through enough (and likely sounded pig-headed about) and the KD probably compromised by designing it this way.

(While I can live with an end result that's due to my overlooking something or stubborness if it's truly because of that, if it's the result of someone else messing up, then I'd want them to help to fix it.)

I think the short panel is to enclose the microwave and has nothing to do with the fridge.
Hi fori, yes, that's my understanding from the KD's design also. Though I'm still not sure where the idea of not continuing the panel down to the counter came from. I do know that we are now looking for the piece that's looks like it's the shelf underneath the microwave (in the drawings) and not finding it in the cabinetry packages.

Just use "I'm not happy with the way this looks & I need your help getting it corrected."
Ah Christine, that is a gem! I started to feel so much better after I read that. So much of this process has been "what to say and how to say it". Thank you so much for posting that.

OK, my next response is "what the GC saw" today. :-)

--Lee

So, dear husband was there this morning and when the GC arrived, said to him "Gee, this wasn't how we expected it would be."

Long story short, they took out the tape measure and measured everything on that wall. When they measured the wall itself from the right hand corner to the left side where that wall ends, they found that the crew had framed it an inch longer than the dimension in the plans. (Thus making for the 1 inch that they had to add the left-hand spacer for. :-)

(Big sigh. This is what is killing me in this whole process. The whole kitchen had been gutted, so these are brand, spanking new walls. Not a case of trying to fit the cabinets into existing walls and blaming the walls. And the KD came out and remeasured after the gutting before finalizing the cabinet order. So there is no logical reason why the crew shouldn't have framed to the dimensions in her drawings. At every milestone - before the blueboard, before the plastering - we asked the GC "are you sure this fridge space is right?" Ok, I'm venting, and I suppose this is a rhetorical question: do I have to pull out a tape measure every day and confirm that they are building to the drawings? Yes! How tedious!)

Soooo, once they saw that they had not built the wall to the plans, they took down that area and re-adjusted it so that it matches the drawings. :-) Which means that while there are going to be the 3/4 inch wide places on either side of the above-fridge cabinet for those two panels on either side, at least they are matching 3/4 inch wide places. And it matches the drawings (which is somehow comforting to my left-side-oriented brain).

Bless you all GWers, because I would have been much more panicked today without having you to 'talk' with. If I ever have the stamina for another kitchen reno (way way into the future from now), I'm going to make it a GW-designed kitchen. You are the best!

--Lee

I agree with the others that the short panel is there for the microwave and not for the fridge. No suggestions on how to fix it but I would prefer it be longer and encompass the fridge. I think it may look a little odd to have the side of the fridge showing for that 12-16" underneath the microwave.

I agree with blfenton. when you think of what you plan for a backsplash, I think it is going to look odd to have backsplash die into the side of the fridge, but not have a panel or anything wrapping the side of the fridge.

Well, good job!
At least that bit is off your plate.
My STBX was a GC. It annoyed the crap out of him that I could see level and plumb without a level or a line. I can pick 1/8th" off at 100 yards. Actually, I knew my barn was sinking before anyone else did, even when they told me the lay of the land was fooling my eye. "My EYE," is what I said!

My point is that if you see it, you see it. Period.

Now not only have you addressed something bugging you, you have a little confidence now about questioning something else. Once it's up, it's not a question of who said what and who wanted what, it's "help me fix it."

You're great.
Your kitchen is going to be beautiful.

Thanks Christine! You do have good eyes to see things so level like that! Your "help me fix it" phrase is perfect--no blame, just problem-solving.

Thanks again everyone!
--Lee

"I agree with the others that the short panel is there for the microwave and not for the fridge. No suggestions on how to fix it but I would prefer it be longer and encompass the fridge. I think it may look a little odd to have the side of the fridge showing for that 12-16" underneath the microwave."

I agree, it should go down to the counter top. they should replace it with one that does. and find the bottom piece...

from all I read on this forum I'm backing out of redoing my kitchen next yr. Then thought I might manage to change out the bottom cabs (to drawers). Now I'm doubting that. Don't think I have the mental, emotional and physical strength to survive it.

My first look at that short panel for the MW was that it is intended for an OTR microwave, not a shelf model. If you want a shelf model, then get them to install a shelf. I think the side panel should go all the way down, but with a OTR unit it would not have to.

I'm assuming the current 30" fridge has a carcass depth (depth without the doors) of about 27" thus matching the lower cabinets. Various counter depth fridges I've looked at have a carcass depth from 24" - 27". All of them had 'finished' sides. That is, painted steel or stainless. The only unfinished ones were designed to be built-in, which is a different animal entirely.

I'm also assuming there is still a small pantry behind the fridge space accessible from the side.

Oh desertsteph don't back out. That's what everyone here is for - to hold your hand and help you through it - exactly like what just happened here.
And at the end you get a new, very functional kitchen and it's all worth it!

la_koala- I'm dealing with the same problem of creating a dark hallway with my fridge. We almost have the exact same layout in that area.
Did you consider or have you ever seen an open cabinet above the fridge (similar to the below but open on the left side too)?
Or did you consider just having moulding above the fridge and no cabinet there? I wish I could find a really tall cheap fridge!
I'm really torn as well. I won't have your views but hate to make a dark hallway!

I also came across a problem insetting the fridge because of the corner stud that I can't just remove- will this cause a problem for you if you want to inset a wider fridge when you "upgrade"?

Good luck- looks great!

[

[eclectic kitchen design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/eclectic-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2104) by dallas interior designer Melinda Faranetta

The cabinets look very nice. I too think the little wall for the mircowave needs to go all the way down. You may want to readjust your thinking about the side wall of the fridge. Maybe even put two fake panels. yes it might look a little hallwayish - but you would have more balance and symmetry. In general, fix what will drive you crazy seeing every morning. i do think that when you are done your kitchen will look fabulous.