I tried to click to enlarge but the link is broken. Can you post a bigger pic? Also, can you post a layout or at least a sketch of the rooms surrounding the kitchen or the whole house so we can get a sense of what might make sense?

And....have you read the Layout Help topic in the FAQs? It describes the information we need to help you find a layout that works for you and your family. I've linked it here...

FAQ: How do I ask for Layout Help and what information should I include?

Thanks for the responses. I'll try to post a bigger pic.

This is a kitchen for a large family with children ages 1-adults with multiple cooks. We cook three meals a day and snacks and desserts usually every day. The kitchen is located on the upper level of a split entry home and the sink wall and range wall are outside walls.

Here is the floor plan, though the kitchen isn't quite the same:

The kitchen opens into the dining/living room open space. The kitchen peninsula separates the kitchen from the dining room and the living room is next to the dining room.

One problem we have - multiple people wanting to use the sink at once, washing hands, washing dishes, using the RO system to get drinking water, etc. There is also no place to store the broom. I know there are others, too.

I hope I've answered all the questions, but if I missed any, let me know. I am new to this site and kitchen designing in general. I've learned a lot from reading here and would appreciate if those with more knowledge/experience could point out anything that might be good to have to make a hard-working kitchen even more so.

Thanks so much for your time!

Another question is how to get more lighting over the peninsula as it is right under the middle of the vaulted ceiling and there isn't an accessible attic space above it to run wiring. Any idea of something I could add to the wall to direct light there? There is a light fixture centered in the kitchen but the light is blocked by the person working there as they cast their own shadow over their work space.

This is not how the kitchen currently looks, but it is how it looked 10 years ago. The first layout is what it currently looks like. Currently all the carpet is gone and hardwood floors are in the process of being laid that will cover the entire level except the bathroom.

Maybe an L and an island with a prep sink can be better.

You can have a shallow brooms cab facing the DR(?) and maybe a narrow pantry cab, fridge, and range and after the corner sink and DW.

Working part of the island can be 30" deep (+ 3 for overhang), and can have rounded part for 2 or 3 seats. If you can remove a part of the load bearing wall and/or get a counterdepth fridge you may consider a deeper island.

Trash can be in the island at the main sink end. This pic is from beagelsdoitbetter's kitchen (hope she doesn't mind). If you have a trash cab that has 2 doors like this it can be used both for prep and cleanup.

Thanks, sena. I like how this kitchen looks but I can't remove even part of the load bearing wall as the stairs are on the other side and it is the only support wall in that half of the house. I've always thought it would be great to have it open at the top of the stairs, though!

I've considered moving the fridge to the stove wall but it would block the light coming in from the dining room windows. I'd also lose a lot of cupboard and countertop space, two features that are really great about my current kitchen. It would sure cut down on countertop expense, though! If there were only 2-4 of us living here, I think it would be a much more doable option.

Well, maybe you can consider another sink in the peninsula, move the DW to the other side of big sink and instead of a 13" wide base and an upper have a 13" deep tall cab next to the fridge for brooms or storage.

Exactly what sena01 just said. Also lower the knee wall and make a much larger one-level surface on the peninsula. That gives you two prime prep spaces.

Generally speaking, your layout isn't bad, since there are multiple spaces to "work". Sena's suggested changes are brilliant. Another possibility is to replace the current main sink with a smaller one, and make the peninsula the cleanup area - large sink, trash and dishwasher. That's how we had it in my previous home, and it was great because it kept "cleaners" out of the ways of "cookers".

Where do you store dishes and glasses?

Marcolo, my husband had a similar thought. We are currently in the process of lowering the breakfast bar. It was 46" high previously and only good for standing at so we thought to lower it to a more standard 42", but once we started, we decided to go all the way to counter-height to make it one level surface. We also took out the knee wall and are thinking of adding a row of 12" cabinets on the dining room side to house school materials as the dining room is the place most schoolwork takes place.
Eating space in the kitchen or peninsula isn't really needed as the dining room is adjoining and is where we eat all our meals and snacks, but would it be too much to have overhang beyond the 39â that covers the cabinets to allow a little room for seating? I was wondering how 48â wide would be?

sjhockeyfan, I've never had a prep sink. How much would it add to have one? Would one be too close to the main sink if it was in the space to the right of the refrigerator (though I'm not sure about the vent stack situation)? Maybe I could just have a RO water tap there with a removable basin under it to reduce the traffic from those setting the table/getting a drink?

The peninsula is the most popular place for cooking/baking/dishing up 10 plates, etc. I'm not sure if I can put a sink into the island as I don't think there is a vent stack to tie into in that area, but since that is where everyone likes to work, there might be a small outcry against a sink there.

Right now we have a rolling 24" butcher block kitchen cart centered under the light in the middle of the kitchen with a step-open lid garbage can next to it. It is very handy for throwing away items with messy hands. How do the pull-out garbage cabinets work, do you pull them open with your feet?

Our dishes/glasses are stored to the right of the refrigerator.

Thanks for the suggestions! Do you have any ideas on how to improve the lighting situation over the peninsula?

double post

This post was edited by akjr on Sat, Nov 15, 14 at 17:41

if you plan to use the peninsula for baking and/or seating, i wouldn't put a prep sink there. it will make an awesome baking counter, long and out of the way of the cooking zone.
i have an L kitchen and i do all my food prep between the sink and stove so your plan looks good to me. swapping the dw to the other side of the sink may be even better.
i have to add that when i redid my kitchen i went from 30" uppers to 39" uppers and love the extra space! you can probably go for 42" with your high ceilings!

I think this is a good time to search the forum for the many, many previous threads on the placement and purposes of prep sinks.

Would it be a travesty to extend the wall of the kitchen that the fridge is on so that it finishes up at the same level as the peninsula?

Next to the pullout broom closet (which could be next to the fridge) might be a really good spot for a second sink in the kitchen. It could house the spot where you get your drinking water. There could be a shelf above it that could hold everybody's drinking glasses for the day. It would double as a prep sink for the peninsula, give you a spot for washing up after science and art projects, and provide a place for little ones to wash up before meals, all without coming into the kitchen proper. The person washing the table before and after meals would no longer have to vie for sink space with the other cookers and cleaners.

Is it true that you are using a counter depth fridge as drawn in your plan? Make sure the walkway past the fridge is ok if it sticks out more than as it is drawn.

Centsational girl has a second sink in her kitchen in a similar location. She talks about it about half way down the blog page that I've linked below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Centsational girl's kitchen

Another thing I'd consider is shortening up the peninsula some (so that you'd have at least a 48" walkway), especially if you decide to put a second sink in where I sketched it. It'll make it much easier to avoid traffic jams that way. : )

Wow. From incorrect placement of the dishwasher...to crossing zones...to light switches behind the faucet (let me guess:no permit? Or she doesn't know what an air switch is?)...to prep tools and spices stored in the cooking zone on the wrong side of the range...to colliding oven doors...to the overwhelming use of pullouts instead of drawers...I'd say "Censational girl" needs to take a class or two before she writes a blog about kitchen design.

Akjr: you said multiple people using a sink is a problem. That's why you need a prep sink on the peninsula. The order of food preparation is fridge/pantry to water to prep surface to range. You have this now along your back wall. If people are using the peninsula to prep now, they're getting in on the action in a more fun, less isolated space--but they're also traipsing back and forth past the range to wash their hands, rinse veggies, get water to add to bread, etc. With a prep sink on the peninsula, travel across the kitchen is much curtailed. Instead people will be able to stay in one place and reach everything they need ( provided you also add a trash can there).

You make multiple references to venting at sinks. Sinks don't require a vent stack, only toilets.

HomeChef59, I may not have been using the correct terminology? What is the correct way to refer to this? I am trying to refer to venting the sink as described in this article:

http://www.familyhandyman.com/kitchen/how-to-plumb-an-island-sink/step-by-step

My state requires sinks to be tied into a vertical vent and does not allow an AAV, hence the need to be able to tie into a vent.

Here is a link that might be useful: How to Plumb an Island Sink

Marcolo, researching prep sinks has now risen to the top of my spare moments of gardenweb research. Thanks! I haven't found much useful to my situation yet, but I'll keep looking. I do enjoy reading about all of the other unique situations presented along the way.

In what alternate universe do sinks not require venting? I assure you that all plumbing fixtures require venting. And all plumbing codes require that they be vented.

Akjr, a high loop is not an AAV.

Marcolo, is "a high loop" the option 1 in the article? That is what I'd have to do. I can't do option 2 (AAV) because that isn't allowed in my state.

My issue is trying to find the existing vent lines in the kitchen as I don't know where they are (besides somewhere behind the existing kitchen sink, of course) . It's too bad that houses don't come with wiring, venting, plumbing and heating diagrams when you buy them.