It's a tough call. IMO, If you have children, the open concept is worth doing. My kids were 9 and 11 when we renovated and its made such a difference to be all together in one space vs. in different rooms. As a parent, I can honestly say it was the best money I ever spent.

Aside from the family factor, I guess you should look on houzz.com or maybe even think about some open floor plan homes you've been in (friends, when looking for a house to buy, vacation rentals, etc.) and think about how you liked the openness. I think the peninsula is much more inviting in Bueh's plan.

Lastly, I will mention that the wall you are removing it is not that large and could be supported by a flush beam in the ceiling. I did a 23 foot flush beam in ceiling. It may require to go across your dining room and run down to basement thru the far wall. Why not get a price on that option if its the post on the peninsula that is bothering you. The price of the physical beam will be a little more but the labor might be the same.

Good luck with your decision.

Your current kitchen is very narrow - I'd do anything to make it visually larger!

I havn't seen your other thread but if you are going to be in the the house a while I think it is definitely worth it. Also you will find it easier to sell the house in the end because going through the kitchen to the bedrooms is a deal breaker for me. The new entry is much more accepetable. Not to mention the much improved ambiance.

dilly, I love the open concept houses I have been in and it definitely makes a difference in how big the space feels. And being able to keep an eye on the kids from the kitchen is a big plus!
It might not be very clear in my post-to do the newer layout, the architect recommends 3 LVL beams that will be flush with the ceiling and four new posts. Three of these posts will be hidden in walls but one will be in the middle of the peninsula. I don't mind the post as such but it just seems like a lot of work for a 5' opening into the kitchen.
Are you on Long Island, by any chance? The long beam flush with the ceiling is what we had been hoping for-it would also be 23ft long. We had another highly recommended contractor come by earlier and he said he can do it without the posts. But, I am worried that his load calculations might not be accurate as he didn't even look in the attic and he based it on a very similar house he had remodeled earlier.

sjhockeyfan, I agree-the current kitchen doesn't work for many reasons. Thanks for your vote.

Are you taking the wall down entirely? If so, would you get the same effect by cutting out a 'window' over the peninsula and leaving part of the wall at the end of the peninsula for header support/

We had a similar situation where we wanted to remove a five foot section of wall between the kitchen and living room to add a breakfast bar and open the area up.

During demolition, we discovered that in addition to being a load bearing wall, it was also a shear wall (required for earthquakes). We had to bring in an engineer who had to design an alternative location for the shear wall in addition to adding a beam across the space we wanted to open up. To work with our original design and keep the large window that I wanted really badly, we had to move the shear wall to an exterior wall in the garage. This involved moving everything away from that wall, making a bunch of PITA earthquake retrofits to appease the inspector, and replacing all the drywall. Just moving all the stuff we keep stored there on shelves was a huge undertaking. It was all extra time, money, and headaches that we didn't plan on.

At the time, it was tempting to just can the idea of an open concept. But since we plan to be in this house a long time, we muddled through because the compromise (losing the open feel we wanted) was just too great. It was worth it in the end. Our house is small to begin with, and opening up that wall made all the difference.

Maybe there are other areas in your remodeling budget where you can recoup some of your extra costs. To me, getting the "bones" right was the most important thing.

Reiterating dilly's comment about other options for the beam. A structural engineer could provide at least 3 different options for how to replace those walls.

For example, beams recessed in ceiling generally look better than dropped beams, but they're also more difficult/expensive to install, so that choice should be considered.

Another option would be to continue the beam over the peninsula into the dining room to the exterior wall, in which case you wouldn't need the post at the end of the peninsula because you could hang the other beam from that one. And this might also make it so you don't need to reinforce the steel beam in the basement.

Ultimately, it is up to you and what is the right use of your resources.

I missed why the second beam is required? I understand the wall with the post is load bearing. Is there another one? It sounds like your loadings are pretty high and complex to require work in the basement as well. (I would trust an architect or SE over a GC that hasn't viewed all the structure in detail). Deedles is right, a window may give you sight-lines while reducing complexity. Removing the foyer wall and blocking the kitchen entrance will open up the space and improve the home's flow considerably (no more kids running through the kitchen).

My original remodel specified taking down a 6 to 9 foot section of a wall between the kitchen and FR. It was going to cost $7K. It wasn't it worth it, and I don't regret it. The removal of a non bearing wall gave me the large EIK I was seeking. However, the kitchen space was larger than yours, with good natural light, and the flow to the room was not as immediate as yours.

We actually decided not to do this and keep the walls.

Our family (kids are currently 5 and 9) had spent the past seven years in a home with an open floor plan (kitchen, LR, dining room), until we moved into the home we're renovating earlier this past summer.

We just felt that the open-concept notion was a bit oversold and it was making us unhappier. We don't need to be able to see our kids at all times on the main floor. It was too tempting to have the tv on at dinner time when the LR visible at the kitchen table. There wasn't a lot of privacy for my older kid when she was trying to do her homework, and the noise level wasn't ideal. Open-concept looked better on paper than in reality for us, we ended up deciding not to spend the bulk of our reno budget on taking down the load-bearing walls, and I'm honestly excited for the bump in the quality of our home life!

I wasn't sure which wall is load bearing, but on Property Brothers last night, they had a remodel where they were planning on doing complete open-concept, but due to the load bearing wall and budget constraints they made a GIANT pass-through instead. It changed the layout of the kitchen, but it still felt very open. I don't know if they have episodes online, but the link goes to the description of it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Property Brothers Episode

Yup, that's what I meant. A giant pass-through. All the view, a fraction of the $$.

Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts and experiences.
deedles, chiefy, gooster. DH and I were thinking along those lines yesterday too. I found these on Houzz and really like the idea. The only thing is we have a similar passthrough but no seating between the kitchen and the DR now. I am not sure how having two passthrough's on a L wall will look. I will have to play with the software to see.

scrappy, There is another entry from the DR to the bedroom hallway but I agree it is not ideal. The improved traffic flow was a big thing I was looking forward to.

jellytoast, Zlauren, gooster, Thank you for sharing your decision making process. I don't have final numbers from the contractor yet. I am just trying to keep myself one step ahead and figure out all our options.

gooster, the wall between the Kitchen and DR is also loadbearing eventhough it is 3ft away from the steel beam in the basement ceiling. The architect was also confused when he measured and saw that wall and the beam don't align!

GauchoGordo, In our county, Architects are also allowed to do the load calculations and design. I wonder if hiring a structural engineer might have been better-maybe they would have had a better idea of the possibilities. The architect seemed to know what he was talking about. There are three LVL beams-from the post in the peninsula to the DR outside wall, from the post to the Kitchen outside wall and from the post to the where the current linen closet corner is. We don't have a second floor but it is a hip roof which I understand has loads on interior walls. So I am not really sure if this overkill or not.
Thank you all.

Passthru only helps if it's significantly smaller than what you have planned. But if the passthru is about the same size as the peninsula in your plan, then it doesn't actually change the structural dynamics - you've still removed a wall that distributes weight evenly and replaced it with a beam that creates point loads at it's ends.

My architect was super set on the beam flush with ceiling...as soon as I heard 'cut all the floor joists on the second floor' I think my wallet somehow leapt out of my pocket and physically blocked my ear holes. We are taking down one wall and the beam will NOT be flush with the ceiling. But in our house there are archways between all rooms so dropped beam will look natural.

This sounds like a huge amount of work. I guess my personal decision-making would hinge on if I could afford it, or what I would trade off to get it. Open floor plan for me is more valuable than nice counters, so I am making that trade offs for example. For me it would be worth it, I guess.

This post was edited by robotropolis on Thu, Nov 21, 13 at 18:15

I just took down the wall between my dining/living room and kitchen and the visual result is unbelievable!!! I absolutely love it and wouldn't think twice about doing it again.

What is the style of the house? Some older styles don't call for open floor plans. (Full disclosure: I have had open and not open, and I am not a huge fan of open, unless I feel positively claustrophobic in the closed room.)

A couple more thoughts on this.

I'd consider removing less of each wall. Specifically, I'd only open up the end of the peninsula (the last 36" or so) and leave the wall behind the sink and the wall next to the utility cabinet next to the fridge. I like this better for two reasons: (1) it's easier & cheaper to build becuase you're removing less bearing wall, and (2) it mitigates the risk of going "too open", which seems like a potential problem here. I like open concept in most cases, but not to the point that every corner of the public space is visible from every other corner.

I'd also review/challenge your architect's assumptions & calculations. Did he/she specify three 2x beams or three 4x beams? I could imagine three 2x beams being indicated, although I seriously doubt it, but I'm certain that three 4x beams is way overkill, so if that's what he/she is calling for, then they there's something fundamentally wrong with the assumptions &/or calculations. Regarding load assumptions, what type of roof do you have and does it bear a snow load in the winter? Absent snow load, the worst case scenario for this type of calculation is roof replacement because there will be a bunch of people will be on the roof at the same time - is that how he/she thought about it? What safety factor did he/she apply?

Robotroplis, ha, ha..that's a nice visual! I could see my wallet doing that too :-). I agree it seems like a huge undertaking for a small house. We only have 8 ft ceilings so I am trying to avoid headers but will talk to the contractor about the other options.
Mgoblue and kitchen detective, thank you for sharing your opinions. It is a small ranch with no strong architectural features in this part of the house. The interior chimney in the family room is another story all together!
Gaucho, thank you so much for making so many important points. We are meeting with the architect on Monday and will ask him about other options. He has specified 2 lvl beams to span from the DR outside wall to the Kitchen outside wall with a post in the middle to transfer loads to the steel beam in the basement. The third beam is made of 3 2x10s to go from the wall behind the broom closet to the post. We have a hip roof on a 25x 54' single story house with a full basement. We do get snow in the winter but only in Jan is it cold enough to stay on top for more than a few days. I will check with the architect what assumptions he used for the loads.
Thank you all for the advice.