Ikea boxes (Akurum)are all particleboard with melamine foil. However they do have some solid wood door styles.

The boxes and hardware are rated very highly.

If you want plywood boxes, might as well go with Scherr's all the way. Ikea boxes are well made, but definitely "other". Of course, in most installations, it won't matter. Slap an extra door on the end and viola! Wood.

There may be only one problem using solid wood doors with particle board cabs is that if a door is installed improperly on the first try, it may be difficult to re-install a subsequent time. Once you drill a hole in particle board, it almost impossible to drill a proper hole nearby - wood fillers may or may not work.

Best,
/venkat

Venkatbo, that won't be a problem with the Ikea system, since the door hinges won't require any drilling to install whatsoever. The doors, however, must be drilled properly for the Ikea hinge system, and I understand that Scherr's will do that without problem.

In shortm there is no need to drill any holes in the Ikea cabinets for installation of doors and drawer fronts.

I had an MDF Ikea kitchen for 15 years.

Those were some darned sturdy cabinets!

I personally would never pay extra to get plywood for the cabinet boxes. For the doors, maybe, and maybe even shelves, but not the boxes themselves.

i take it back, probably I'd pay extra for plywood on the sink cabinet only.

Don't be a "wood snob"! Educate yourself on exactly what the difference beteween "partical board" vs "furniture board" vs. "MDF" vs "plywood" vs "cabinet grade plywood" actually is and the exact moisture resistance and stability of each of them. It's like the difference between framed and frameless cabinets. To blankly state that one is "better" than another is just plain nonsense! Each has their positives and negatives and to blindly accept that furniture board isn't "wood" is the first myth that you've bought into. The second myth is that "solid wood is better". THe third myth is that "Ikea doors are not quality". Do some reading and educate yourself.

another myth is that "a cabinet is solid wood"--few people will make a cabinet case out of "solid wood"--solid wood doesn't come in slabs, it comes in planks, and the wider the plank, the more likely to warp.

a truly quality kitchen cabinet will be made of plywood--which isn't really "solid wood" anymore than furniture-quality MDF is. In fact, MDF is more "solid" than plywood, bcs the processed wood it's made from is squished together much more densely. It's *heavier.*

It does surprise me how many people are down on IKEA, despite their cabinets being rated very highly time and again. They use superior hardware as standard - not a mark up item (e.g 125 degree Blum hinges, full extension drawers, soft close). There are door styles for every budget.

I can understand if they don't have a door style or cabinet box sizes that suit, but why rule them out without even investigating?

Going with Ikea for our cabinets allowed us to splurge a little in other areas, like our appliances.

Our Abstrakt white cabinets are just staring to go in and I'm thrilled. They're gorgeous and very solid. And I'm thrilled with all the interior storage options.

Grand total for our cabinets? $2995.36 CDN

This is great feedback thanks everyone.

My desire to avoid "other" is not so much "snobbery" but rather using sustainable products that have the least (or lower) enviromental impact.

I understand both MDF and plywood have some impact---for that matter even untreated wood releases acidic gases. In this case it's pretty much a lesser of 2 evils.

I realize that a lot of progress has been made in signifantly reducing the harmful off-gasing of MDF (resins, fiberglass etc)however, the finishing that is used on MDF (primarily polyeuro) releases significant VOC's. That said, I acknowledge formaldehyde, a significant component of manufacturing standard plywood is also harmful, but there are new sealants that are now being used in the manufacturing of plywood that claim to virtually eliminate all off-gasing.

I'm also concerned with the 'lifetime' of the product. I lived in a house that had MDF doors. The laundry room flooded and all of the doors on the lower level "puffed up" ;-) and had to be replaced. In this case, it is less likely I would have had to replace wood doors thus reducing the impact of additional waste.

We live on a lake and in rainy WA---and I confess I'm concerned about getting MDF or particleboard kitchen cabinets wet.

IKEA has some information in their kitchen catalogue regarding the environmental impact of the materials they use. You might want to pick one up, or download it from the net to help make your decision.

From my understanding a lot of the plywood being made now is coming from developing countries that are rapidly depleting their forests to make these products, so that should also be a consideration, along with issues like sealants, glues, VOCS etc.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that your wood doors would have withstood a flood. Swelling and warping affect solid wood as well, sometimes to a larger degree than MDF.

Good luck making your decision, and finding something you are happy and comfortable with. I think it's admirable that you are considering these important issues.

You've got me curious now...:-)

Here is some info I found on Wikipedia:

Impact on timber resources and the environment:
Particleboard and other manufactured boards have had a very positive impact on timber resources, stemming almost entirely from the use of recycled materials. Seventy-five percent of particleboard manufactured in Canada and the US is constructed entirely from recycled materials. The remaining twenty-five percent of boards are constructed partially from recycled material and partially from virgin wood. These mixed panels have an average recycled content of sixty-six percent. This is still significantly more resource efficient than solid wood, even when considering that in many cases these panels will be covered with a thin veneer of virgin wood.

Europe consumes around 45 million cubic metres of particleboard and MDF every year. If solid wood were used instead of these manufactured boards, an enormous burden would be placed on the environment. It lessens the need for trees to be felled, while at the same time reducing waste.

Comparison of solid wood to particleboard
Particleboards selling point is its price. However, it has several other advantages, one of which is its stability. Solid wood is prone to warping and splitting with changes in humidity, whereas particleboard is not. This stability enables new design possibilities, without having to take into account seasonal variations. Untreated particleboard will disintegrate, however, when exposed to high levels of moisture. This problem is somewhat mitigated by laminating the particle board on both sides with melamine resin to reduce moisture ingress.

Solid wood has structural advantages over particleboard. It is stronger, allowing it to support greater weights as shelves or other furniture; unless braced or built with thick material, particleboard shelves may visibly sag over time. Solid wood is also more durable. Most damage to solid wood can be repaired easily, often simply by sanding. Any damage to particleboard is difficult to repair.

IKEA cabinets are one of the lowest VOC emitting cabinets around. They meet European standards for offgassing which are much higher than US standards. This is one of the main reasons I CHOSE IKEA, not stayed away from them. Do a little research on their actual process and product.

This is a few years old, but relevant:
Ikea Info

Wow!

Cork2win, this information is terrific, thanks.

Kailleanm, thanks too for the info. My head spins with the information out there! I recently read a blurb that almost entirely contradicts wikipedia...

"According to the EPA, some types of medium-density fiberboard, which is used frequently for kitchen cabinetry, contain a high resin-to-wood ratio and are generally recognized as being the highest formaldehyde-emitting pressed-wood products. While cabinets made of particleboard or medium-density fiberboard might appeal to homeowners on a budget, they are not as durable as the solid wood and (plywood)" (end quote)

A local "green" cabinet builder cites: "particleboard will deteriorate when exposed to water, it is more susceptible we use to dents and tends to sag when carrying weight long-term. As a result, she says, cabinets made with particleboard won't hold up as well to the wear-and-tear commonly experienced by kitchen cabinetry, and may have to be replaced sooner". (end quote)

I agree with her last statement:

"In the end, each homeowner will have to weigh the cost versus durability issue when choosing cabinets for his or her particular project.
in terms of cost, most eco-offerings in general compare exactly with good-quality cabinets at the mid-price range and while you may pay slightly more for materials, the homeowner may feel that the increased cost is offset by the benefits to water quality, wildlife and the planet.

I only wish I could find a local bamboo cabinet maker---I can't so far find any negative information on bamboo (except of course, the fuel costs in transporting...ah, well I guess that's yet another story!

In the meantime, I feel encouraged about the IKEA products -- I'll continue to read on!

Thanks tons---this has been fun and educational!

Lagom,
Another note - Scherr's has worked making custom doors for IKEA boxes and knows the measurements and placement for the fantastic Blum hardware that IKEA uses. Ask for Sadie. Frankly, I doubt you could get as good of cabinet boxes and hardware anywhere else for double what you would pay at IKEA.

My IKEA cabinets set in an un-airconditioned house under construction for a month before we installed them. Not one shows any sign of any effects from the Florida humidity from that exposure. And I am sensitive to environmental pollutants - I cannot go into a building with new carpet, but I have not had any problem with out gassing from the IKEA cabinets.

IKEA now offers a 25 year warranty on their kitchen cabinets - how many companies do that?

Actually, the wikipedia info and the info you posted don't contradict each other at all. They're about entirely different aspects of the problem-wood source vs. VOC's. And both are pretty accurate.

I think you err in acknowledging that plywood has a formaldehyde/VOC problem and then saying that sealers fix it. Even if they do (and don't do any off gassing of their own) assuming that all plywood is manufactured with them may not be the best idea. The US has VERY lax standards when it comes to VOC emissions and as a result we get a lot of imported plywood with high formaldehyde content and VOC emissions. Europe, on the other hand, has very tough indoor air quality standards for things like formaldehyde and VOC's. Because Ikea is a European company, their products meet these much tougher Euro standards, as mentioned above.

We have Ikea cabinets in our garage and are very happy with them-I think their mounting system is ingenious. We would have used them in the kitchen except their limited sizes/configurations just didn't work for us there.

I'm in WA as well and have the same goals regarding my kitchen remodel - trying to be friendly to the environment and our bodies as well. I am considering IKEA because of the supposedly lower VOC content, however, then I sit there and think - this stuff is being shipped from Europe on nasty container ships - surely there is a local option? (Then there is the limited range - that is more likely to be the deal killer. I have a hard time resisting good quality at a great price, and life is about tradeoffs, so I'll do something to make it up to the environment elsewhere, but I digress...)

So, I'm about to expand my local search. On my last home, I looked at the cabinets the Environmental Home Center carries - Neil Kelly. They are made in Oregon and they use wheatboard/agriboard for their cases, and their wood is FSC, their adhesives are low-VOC, etc. They are beautiful and unique cabinets. They have a bamboo door option. Of course, none of this comes cheaply (and full-extension is an additional charge). However, it did make me think - if they can get the wheatboard, surely other mfrs can too. I'm thinking I'm going to search for some local cabinet makers and see if they can use agriboard. Maybe I'll also get an estimate for the Neil Kelly cabinets again - perhaps they've come down in price in the last few years. I've thought about asking Scherrs if they would use a low formaldehyde product (I'm assuming they use standard products, does anyone know?). At least they are a little closer than Europe. So much to consider!

jraz, IKEA must have been thinking the same thing about shipping the boxes because they have recently found a manufacturer here in the US to make their boxes for the North American market.

However, I doubt these American-made products are being distributed yet. Are you in a hurry to get started?

Nicole

Nigel, yeah, and as I understand it, the NA manufacturer of the IKEA boxes will be Sauder! No thanks, IKEA!

jraz, Take a look at Henrybuilt. Beautiful cabinets and a Seattle company, no less. They have the same goals - low VOCs, minimal off-gassing, their boxes are bamboo ply, I think (I think being the operable word because I don't remember), but certainly bamboo is a substantial part of their offering. They also have some sort of terribly cool looking metallic paint or coating finish as an option on their cabinet boxes - looked like automobile paint to me. Anyhow, they're local to you, environmentally conscious about their product and worth a look-see.

mindstorm, initially I was as dismayed as you were to learn that Sauder will be making IKEA boxes. However, you have to keep in mind that they will be manufactured to IKEA standards, which means the product is expected to support IKEA's new 25-year guarantee.

I look at it not as IKEA buying Sauder boxes, but rather Sauder making IKEA boxes. I guess time will tell. In the meantime, I am very happy with my Austrian-made boxes and Italian-made doors!

Nicole

Mindstorm, not sure if I should thank you or not. =) Henrybuilt's stuff is gorgeous, totally my style, and probably way out of my price range. No harm in finding out though...

I Googled "IKEA Sauder" and came up with something saying Sauder is going to building the guts/frames/shelves but not the cabinets themselves. Whatever that means. Actually, the customer "builds" the cabinets - maybe that is what they are getting at? It didn't say anything about their materials - any bets on whether or not they are using low-formaldehyde wood here in the US?

Not in a hurry - sometime in 2008.

We're having our cabinets made by a local shop and specifying the cases be made of Columbia Forest's PureBond. It's the first interior plywood that is formaldehyde-free. And all the plys are of hardwood (usually birch and/or alder), rather than the usual softwood (pine/spruce/fir). I have allergic asthma which is triggered by the terpenes in pine and the tannins in oak.

Several national cabinetmakers are using PureBond now. Search under "green" cabinetry. It meets LEEDs standards. It's not only greener than MDF, it's also more healthful. Medite and other MDF products are also out there if you're looking for green and not concerned with the other aspects.

Henrybuilt's stuff is gorgeous
Yeah, and a hundred times more so "in the flesh" than even those pictures show. :-)

Find out. Nothing ventured nothing gained, right? They used to have some sort of a quantized pricing scheme where if you used standard sizes then the prices fell in one regime, if you went to specialized sizes then they were of a different group etc. It is all custom manufactured for you but there used to be this pricing quanta. They've graduated to some hb20, hb40, mx sort of system that may also be price correlated, I don't know. Maybe one of these pricing systems can be jraz-friendly ;-)

BTW, Alex something has installed a HB kitchen - and it is amazing. You may want to speak to her about her experience with them.

Nicole, that's all very well and good to talk about a 25 year guarantee, but frankly, after my kitchen experience, I want a much stronger warranty. These cabinet company warrantees may say 25 years but that only means that they'll replace the worn or broken cabinet for you in that interval of time. An IKEA cabinet costs - $400 dollars? Meanwhile, to uninstall the granite counter top to replace that $400 cabinet, the pricey backsplash, or replace whatever damage got done to an appliance when that cabinet failed will easily run far far exceed the cost of IKEAs or virtually ANYONE's cabinet. The replacement pretty much becomes a small remodel with all the associated hassles of coordinating with carpenters, countertop people, plumbers/electricians/tilers/etc. At least their existing cabinetry is of known antecedents; the Sauder stuff ... who knows?

>>A local "green" cabinet builder cites: "particleboard will deteriorate when exposed to water, it is more susceptible we use to dents and tends to sag when carrying weight long-term. As a result, she says, cabinets made with particleboard won't hold up as well to the wear-and-tear commonly experienced by kitchen cabinetry, and may have to be replaced sooner". I beg to differ with this statement. As I and others have pointed out before, it is the QUALITY of each and every material used in cabinet construction (or any carpentry) that matters.

No manufacturer I know of uses particleboard for kitchen cabinets without applying a veneer of some sort. It may be wood, or laminate, or melamine - and what matters is the quality level of that veneer. Not all veneers are the same in quality and durability, any more than flooring materials are, or even plywood for that matter.

I have Kraftmaid frameless cabs bought in 1989 and thoroughly and totally tested in a hard-usage environment - I love to cook and I don't baby anything I own. I bang pots around, slam and lean on cab doors with all my 200-plus pounds...basically giving them no mercy.

I adore these cabs, with high-density particleboard cores, laminate exterior and high-quality melamine interior. I put dishes away soaking wet without a qualm. Everything cleans with a green scrubbie and a spritz of Windex. We had a six month-long slow leak in the sink cab and there was no substrate damage at all, just a very slight bubble to the melamine interior.

One of my Lazy Susan base cabs had a loosening hinge on the bi-fold door. I'd always thought particleboard couldn't be redrilled - wrong! My handyman filled it with quick-setting epoxy, redrilled the hole, and it's been fine ever since (going on over 4 yrs now).

No shelves have bowed - I have lots of experience with particleboard, since we own thousands of books and every single one of our 24 full-height 36" wide bookcases are made of the stuff, either veneered or just painted. Some of the bookcases are thirty-five years old and have been moved six times now (and also gone through two earthquakes). They are also loaded with art books weighing up to 85 lbs per shelf and can handle it without bowing - the trick with particleboard is to not exceed 32" in width without center support. High-density particleboard, when properly veneered or painted, is just as durable as 3/4" plywood. But it IS heavier, definitely not as easy to shove around or move by yourself.

We have bathroom cabs made of 1/2" plywood billed as "all wood" - the stuff is flimsy, wobbly and hideous. I'll take high-quality particleboard with a good veneer any day, and know that it will last many decades without any more need for care than an "all wood" cabinet does.

And please, I don't believe the inference that particleboard falls apart in water but plywood does not. I've watched plenty of interior plywood scraps disintegrate in the sun and rain - they simply delaminate, and turn into thin crispy layers that can be broken apart with your fingers.

Oh, and my painted particleboard cabs? They are painted with latex paint, and I scrub fingerprints and dirt off with a wet sponge - no problems.

Only marine-grade plywood can withstand water, and no company, big or small, makes cabs out of that stuff! This is the reason, BTW, that all flooring mfgs now require this stuff to be used as subflooring or you will void your warranty (something DIYers need to be aware of); they know regular plywood does not stand up to water and thus changed their warranty language to specifically exclude it.

Had a look at the PureBond stuff. I'd seen EuroPly before, but this is new. Looks great! Thanks Pinktoes!

The HB M-series is the "accessible" line. I'll find out just how accessible it is! =)

just saw this thread...mindstorm, what happened to your kitchen??

fly, nothing amiss with my cabinets! but everything else during the construction phase was hell on wheels and it looked like having reached the 95% point, that in order to correct a problem that we'd need to undo it all and start over. Subflooring was amiss - actually not only was it amiss, it was apparently also a mystery to the contractors somehow! until I starting poking through holes to see what it looked like under the tile. The sub-standard subflooring caused huge cracks in the tile floor and I don't mean through the grout joints. Proper fix was to redo the sub-flooring - this after all the cabinetry, counter, plumbing, radiant heat etc. had gone in. There were other problems too, of a fundamental nature associated with the installers but no point belabouring the issue. Anyhow, in contemplating the fix, we were obviously deliberating over undoing the granite, uninstalling the plumbing & appliances, undoing and removing the base cabinetry to get to the flooring and the subfloor.

The reason I referred to my kitchen experience was that unless we're talking about paint or faucets or - slightly more complex - replacing appliances, that replacing or fixing anything else easily becomes an unraveling ball of wool in that it looks more and more like the steps in a remodel. Replacing a cabinet is only slightly less involved than was my problem to get to the subfloor.

BTW, my lesson learned: you know that admonition - delegate, delegate, delegate?? Lies, lies and damn lies. I delegated to the GC, the project manager/designer and eventually had to fire them and grab the reins.

Ah, I see, thanks for explaining! I was worried that something had happened. I remember all that mishegas around the subfloor.

And yep, I didn't start out a DIYer. Became one through hard experience :( but hey. Keeps my brain young. Like I needed another area to learn. (side note: guess what we get to learn about now? Windows and skylights and proper venting of bath fans--thethe lazy, just-barely-code-but-not-at-all-recommended way so they've helped create a *black mold* situation up in DD's bathroom--GRRRR!)

I have tried to search the web several times to find out whether the Ikea Akurum cabinet sides and hardware are from the Blum TandemBox line. I have even asked Ikea employees but no one seems to know. Does anyone have any "proof" that these are the same products as the general commercially sold version of the Blum TandemBox OR are they a similar product manufactured specifically for Ikea by Blum? The price seems really inexpensive compared to the authentic Blum items purchased individually from a cabinet supply house (even at wholesale prices). I understand economies of scale but I do not believe that is a good enough explanation to justify the price difference.

Any help at all?

James

I have installed four Ikea base cabinets in our kitchen so far. The hardware for the drawers says 'Blum TANDEMBOX PLUS' and 'Made in Austria'. I am not familiar with the non-Ikea Blum hardware.

One of my 24' drawers is holding about 50 pounds of cookware, and it still opens and closes VERY smoothly and silently. If you can be satisfied with the somewhat limited finishes and styles of the Ikea cabinets, you'll save a lot of money that can be useful elsewhere on the project.

Check out the Ikea Fans website for lots of useful information. After studying up on their website, I found the cabinets extremely easy to install and adjust.

SeeSee,

Thanks for that information. It is really encouraging to find out that they are exactly the same. How long have you had your cabinets? Are they a recent purchase?

James

I bought them about six weeks ago, and they have been in place about two weeks. The rest of the cabinets are still in their cartons, waiting to be assembled and installed once phase II of the kitchen project gets underway.

Since everything is DIY, we're staging things so we're never without a fully functioning kitchen. It goes a little slower, but it's MUCH easier on the nerves. In our last house, we cooked meals using a microwave in the laundry room, and washed dishes in the bathroom sink for six months.

We've also had *most* of our Ikea cabs in for a few weeks now. They are such a huge improvement over our old kitchen; the drawers and pantry shelves slide beautifully.