How much narrower? Will you still have room for the counter to L at the left of your sink in a narrower plan?

I can kind of see the point about the oven heat and steam. We have ours next to the wall, but no door casing to worry about. Most of the heat and steam seems to go straight up, so I'm not sure how long it'd take to appear as a problem for your door casing...if ever?

If you put the oven and micro to the garage side of the fridge, how do you get into the banquette? I think it makes more sense, functionally, where you show it. Doesn't seem to convenient on the far side of the fridge.

Hmmm, I guess I can see the theory of it, but my oven has been next to a sheetrock wall and door moulding for the nearly 9 yrs since my house was built (5 with me living in it and using it).

We're do a complete remodel and could move it pretty easily, but opted to keep it in the same location. When we demo's the wall it's on, the wall looked perfectly fine and the same as the rest of the walls in the kitchen.

Hope this helps!

Maybe consider the mw on a shelf above the dw. This placement would work for us, but we are mainly re-heaters and rarely cook anything move complicated that hot milk in the wave.

I think I'd leave the oven where it is shown - you have 4" of filler budgeted in your plan so I'm also having a hard time with the door casing statement.

I am so happy you're happy. I was scared. :-)

opps, the real plan is below, with the wall oven moved next to the frig. Note the frig is on the stove wall. Looking at it again, I think it looks ok, but doens't provide a landing space for the oven anymore. And I still like the symetry of the oven at the other end.
Plan:

This does what so many of you suggested a long while back--that widening the kitchen didn't improve anything. So it is only wider behind where the garage door opens into the DR to allow for pantry.

On to deciding what cabinet/countertop materials to use.

That makes more sense with your original description, but I still don't understand the oven argument exactly. If it has to move, I'd rather see the small "L" eliminated at the hallway on the sink side and the ovens move there.

Can you "narrow depth" the cabinets beyond the dw (like to 18") and create a hutch to transition to seating area... from the seating back to the sink - 36" hutch, about 18" cabinet, dw, 30" sink crammed in a 30" base? or move the dw to the other side of the sink?

Maybe consider a pocket door to the dining room or a" real door". Bifolds can be a real pita.

B'More- Originally I had the dw on the other side of the sink, but moved it to place it closer to the storage area (hutch). I'll look at moving it back. My concern of placement to the left of the sink, is that it is far enough from the perpendicular cabinets (those on the L) so that no water will splas on them when I'm placing dishes in the dw.

My idea was to create a hutch on the corner, although I was thinking of making it deeper than the rest of the cabinets. Do you think that by doing so it makes it more difficult to slide into the seating?

Also, I like the idea of the oven on the L, but didn't think it was wide enough to have the oven without creating dead space in the corner. I'll try again.

Anything else for me to think about? Now is the time! Thanks

You can definitely put the dishwasher to the left of the sink and still easily reach your hutch to put dishes away. I have dish cabinets that are set up the same way and it's not even a step away. My DW is about a foot from the adjacent leg of the L and I never spash the cabinets while loading it so I don't think you'll have a problem with that either.

I like the oven in the corner at the end of the range run better than next the the fridge, but I like the fridge on the range wall better than next to the banquette. I like Bmore's idea for transitioning to the hutch, but as pretty as they are, I wouldn't want to sacrifice counter space for a hutch unless I had a big island or a big kitchen.

I'm not seeing why the dw has to move? I have dishwashers on each side of my sink and it's far easier to unload the one that's closest to the dish hutch and drawers.

I still like the oven on the other end (near the foyer). The other side of the fridge looks inconvenient from anyplace you'd be preparing whatever goes in there, besides not having a landing space when it comes out.

Rhome-
Are you right or left handed, and since you have a dw on each side, should be able to answer this: which dw is easier to unload?

I am right handed. The right-side dishwasher is easier to unload, but that's mostly, like I said, because my dish storage is to the right of the right-side dishwasher. The other one is easier when it comes to pots and pans or cooking utensils (since they're stored to that side of the room), but there are far fewer of them than glasses, plates, and bowls.

LOL!

I did say it had to move! I got this thing about dw. The complete dw psychosis is:

• Don't like dishes stored above dw
• Don't like dw between the sink and the dish storage
• Don't like dw door between sources of used dishes and the sink
• I hate garbage disposals, we scrape plates into trash, so the location of the trash is important
• Don't like where the bottom rack of a tall tub dw ends up in relationship to me!
• Want dw at counter height about 18" tall
• Rats, can't have everything