I don't see it helping. I know it solves the 'hole' of a corner, but in a small place, it seems you have to give up too much.

The elephant in the room, IMHO, is the fridge. It's too big for the space. With a kitchen that size, I'd be looking at lots of pics of european and other non-US kitchens and looking for an alternative to the big american behemoth of a fridge.

You've got an addition, so this doesn't seem to be a condo. Do you have room in, say, a garage for extra fridge/freezer storage so you could go with something more size-appropriate in here? That could free up some room for a speed oven, I'd think.

Overall, I think the U-shaped peninsula based design looks good. But that fridge...

I have a small U with sink in the peninsula and either layout works imo. Don't worry about prep space between the fridge and stove--you will prep between the sink and stove, and it looks plenty roomy. Is the fridge bigger than 36"? Looks normal to me. Counter depth?

You can get a Blum hinge restrictor for the cabinet over the oven. I have an 18" base cabinet in that position and no problem accessing it, but I have drawers. If you go with the first plan, I would eliminate the diagonal corner to open up the space. Cabinetry has a tendency to loom in the corners of small kitchens, so don't make it worse. I would also eliminate the peninsula seating unless you really feel a need for it despite the DR being so close. You'll need a deeper overhang and it looks like it will block your LR walkway. It's also nice to make the back of a peninsula all cabinets to increase storage. We went from a raised bar peninsula to one level without seating.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, cal_quail! You bring up a very good point and i've often cursed that dang fridge box as i've been playing around in my software. We have a second fridge (a tiny one) in the basement -- no garage to speak of in this house. Our current fridge is an older 33" Side-by-side and we HATE IT. I'm not sure how much of that hate is that it is only 33" and how much is because it is a side by side (or perhaps a lot of each, lol).

I'm leaning towards going down to a counter depth for the remodel and found a possible way to push the fridge wall out an additional 3 more inches to make the kitchen proper 10'11" instead of 10'8. I may be able to talk the Mr into a 33" french door, but anything smaller than that is a non-starter.

I should mention we will have overflow pantry storage in fairly close proximity (closets in the family room), so I am willing to sacrifice a little on this front (currently we store our most-used pantry goods in a 30" x 30" upper cabinet). But I think I will miss that extra leg of counterspace moreso than the storage.

I'd be curious to hear folks thoughts on an "acceptable" length for a counter run between tall cabinets and a corner before it starts to feel too cavelike/inaccessible. Are there any rules of thumb?

Hi May_Flowers! As pictured, the fridge is a 36. Definitely considering a counter depth (the one included in the pic is not, but i've bumped out the surrounding cabinetry to keep it from looking as if it is sticking out too much.)

With regards to getting rid of the diagonal, do you mean have the upper cabinets terminate into the wall without turning the corner? Do you have any pictures of your 18 inch space to share?

As for the peninsula, the overhang isn't drawn to scale (will most likely be 15-18 inches deep. I agree, it will jut out into the room a little, but I think it's something we can work with I'm quite smitten with the idea of seating for 2 there, and think the room is large enough to be able to accommodate with proper furniture placement, but admittedly, I haven't really taken the time to think it through all the way. Will definitely keep that in mind as this evolves, though!

I don't particularly care for the way that corner wall breaks up your kitchen. I think I might steel a few inches from that doorway on the fridge wall (where does it lead to?) and choose the smallest fridge possible. Also, I don't know if it would work, but what about maybe the oven in the corner? Or a corner pantry? Or appliance garage?

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[Transitional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/transitional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2112) by Portland Interior Designers & Decorators Donna DuFresne Interior Design)
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[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Santa Monica Interior Designers & Decorators Courtney Blanton Interiors)

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[Contemporary Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/contemporary-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2103) by South East Kitchen Designers & Remodelers Beau-Port Kitchens)

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[Farmhouse Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/farmhouse-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2114) by Brainerd Kitchen & Bath Fixtures Traditional Cabinetry LLC)

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[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Edina Kitchen & Bath Designers The Woodshop of Avon)

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[Modern Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/modern-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2105) by San Francisco Architects & Building Designers John Lum Architecture, Inc. AIA)

Not really understanding where the closet actually is, but:
can you recess the fridge into that wall, thus using a full-depth, but taking up a bit of space on the other side of the wall / the closet?

Or instead of extending the full closet, give up the bottom corner--the whole "blind corner" thing--and access the space via a door (drawers in the wall, whatever) thus adding storage to wherever that closet is. That lets you simplify by not having the complicated corner storage stuff & still have the countertop.

if you will use the extra closet space, go ahead and kill the dead corner. I lived very happily with a 9x12 kitchen, and would still be there if I didn't have three more people in the household requiring a new home. In a smaller home (and 1500 sq ft is more than adequate) you will find that when you are prepping for larger affairs, there will be overflow prep on the table and on the bar side of the peninsula. I strongly recommend against a non-standard fridge that start at 3K and above, unless you live in a high rent area. You will be overdoing it for your neighborhood. It is unwise, and the extra few inches will not be worth it.

A double closet in a small home is a huge improvement, though.

"I think I will miss that extra leg of counterspace moreso than the storage. "

I think you will too. I would! I don't see a diagonal cab in your 3d pic- maybe it's just the prog or lighting that makes it look like it might be. Diagonal cabs do enclose a space - don't use them.

I like your first 3D pic. that corner area will be very useful to you. place for toaster, coffee pot?

put the light switches on the other side of that doorway (the side by the table).

you could still access that corner space (dead) from w/in your closet with a small door or drawers. Good little space to store winter wear (gloves, scarves etc) or presents, jewelry, family silver etc.

You could also access the dead corner space on the peninsula side with a door, drawers or shelves into the FR. Usable for lots of things - books, videos, tablecloths, placemats, in house tools etc. I had drawers in a dead space like that in a home yrs ago and I loved it - very useful.

I understand wanting the stools up to the peninsula - just check the width of your FR - I didn't see it on the LO - to be sure you'll have the space/or possibility of changing around the furniture.

The alternative to a diagonal upper cabinet is an easy-reach corner cabinet. I have two of them, and they are wonderful!

Here is a link that might be useful: thread about easy reach

How important is symmetry to you? If it isn't an overpowering need, scoot the range a bit to the left (toward the refrigerator and corner in question). You'll have more prep and dish space to the right, and enough space for taking things out of the fridge and measuring on the left. You could have lower cabinet doors that open to the same space below, or have a bank of narrow drawers, just the righ size for pot holders and cooking utensils.

I disagree about missing the counter space in the corner between stove and fridge. I've had the same U footprint for 12 years, and we've never worked in that corner, before or after the remodel. We have a large Breville oven on the counter in the deep corner. You'll have a built-in oven, so no need for counter. After we remodeled, we thought to make that corner a coffee area, and that lasted about two weeks. We were going back and forth to the sink and trash about three times just to make a cup of coffee.

If you moved the fridge to the end, you could put a shallow pantry/bookcase on the side instead of what looks like a 15" pantry in your first layout. You lose inches to the hardware. My pull-out is 11" wide but the shelf space is 8". You'd get more breathing room in the corner and more fridge landing space while having attractive cabinetry facing the DR.

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[Traditional Spaces[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-home-design-ideas-phbr1-bp~s_2107) by Stone Mountain Kitchen & Bath Designers Wood Cabinet Design Inc.

I love the easy-reach corner cabinets! Wish I had one in my kitchen. Mine has dead space in the corner.

I have the corner counter space now - mine is between the stove and sink. I have my mw across the corner. Being so short I can't reach far into the corner anyway. I use the space around it for prep. Even just cooking for 1 the corner area gets tight. I'd love to have another stretch of counter space to use! With a family any extra counter space in such a small kitchen (about the same size as mine) is very valuable.

Hi folks! A few differing opinions here... that's why I love this place so much! For those that are asking, here's the full layout of the main floor of the house for reference:

The front door is in the living room (south of the kitchen) and the back door to the deck is in the family room. The house is a 1960-built cookie-cutter ranch - 1500 sq feet plus full basement, and the family room in question was an addition added sometime before we bought the house last year (I'm estimating it was put on by the original owners sometime in the 70's or 80's.). It measures 13.5 x 21 (positively palatial for this neighborhood), and also the room we spend the most time in even though right now, there isn't a TV in here yet =D.

Chrissyb, I agree that a drywall box seems a little disruptive on that corner. I briefly looked in to a corner pantry, but I had a hard time coming up with an idea for that... your examples are AWESOME and give me quite a bit to think about. We will most likely be going with stock cabinets (ikea, barker, etc) for this, so I have to make sure I can come up with something that can be hacked together. I feel taking the corner pantry idea all the way to the floor will eat in to too much space from the waist down, but I never really thought about deadening the base corner and doing some kind of pantry storage from the "waist up". Thank you for the inspiration!

Hi Meganmca! Hopefully the full floor plan I posted clarifies the closet in question. There's a strange jog in the wall that isn't shown in the floor plan right next to the coat closet that will possibly allow me to push that fridge wall back an additional three inches. This will create sort of a bump out for the fridge, but recessing it enough to make a real difference in a non-counter depth fridge will kill the view from the front door and the formal living room. Your idea for accessing the below-counter space from the coat closet is quite genius as well! I'll have to ruminate on that a little bit to see if it could work!

Detroit_burb, you are singing my song! It sounds like you really understand the neighborhood and the bones I have to work with. My house is already one of the larger, more-improved ones, and while we don't plan on ever selling, I want to be careful of not over-improving. Splurging on a speed-oven feels a little impractical, but I think I will be able to get over it =) You should have seen the way this kitchen was originally built back in the 60's (my neighbor across the street has it still intact). It had an "eat-in" space, a fridge, a cook top, 24" double ovens and where my current fridge is, a passthrough to the stairs leading down. All told, a single 21" usable base cabinet plus storage below and above the ovens. YIKES!

Desertsteph, I hear you on the counter space. I was thinking of that stretch as secondary prep -- sometimes there are 2 of us cooking at once and for big affairs, it's an additional place to pile things. On the other side of the fridge is an archway to the living room that spans the length of the wall. There will maybe be an inch of free wall between the fridge and the opening, so I was entertaining thoughts of putting the switches in the side of the cabinets if a tall cabbie ends up being on the end. Right now, our light switch to the kitchen is IN the living room... woefully inconvenient! The wall between kitchen and family room is a former exterior wall (it is 12 inches thick) and I suspect under the wallboard I'll find the original brick underneath. I want to open it as much as possible for sightlines and openness, but I don't foresee going through that trouble for reclaiming the dead corner. I do have plans to push in to that 12 inch wall space for the peninsula (which will minimize the dead corner space to 12 inches instead of 24) to try and squeeze out as much kitchen as I can. Since it's all just theoretical at this point (ie, I haven't talked to any contractors yet), I didn't want to trouble y'all with putting any collective brainpower into helping me with the FINAL FINAL layout =) Stay tuned though! Also, dimensions of the FR are 13.5 x 22, but there's lots of windows and doorways on the long walls. Pretty sure I will be able to come up with something that includes the peninsula, but haven't put much thought into it yet.

Annkh, totally hear you on the easy reach! So long as it's available from my cabinet line, I'll be doing it! (it's not a possibility with Ikea without hacking, but is uber-customizable with someone like barker.

Bpathome, it's funny you mention symmetry! It's on my mind a little bit (the Mr. will tell you I'm OCD about stuff like that, lol), but so long as the end arrangement is pleasing to my eye, I can forego it. I also think that upper cabinets play a greater role in how I see symmetry, so that's why I have an 18" upper on each side of the stove, but the bottom has an 18" drawer and then something different on the other side (ideally, a 30+" bank of drawers). In that case, Big drawers trumped symmetry, though it took me a bit of time to arrive at that decision =)

May_flowers, I think you're probably right re: the practicality of how much we would end up using that dark stretch of counter to the corner. I'm just paranoid that if I can't squeeze out the most counterspace possible, I may regret it but that may just be a reaction to the fact we only have a 21" stretch of counter to prep on for now, and my mindset is "more is better" as a result. We in fact are coffee drinkers too, and right now our "coffee station" is a rigged up cart in the family room, which works for us. In the remodel, we will probably keep the coffee out of the kitchen and maybe splurge on a waterline at the new location. There's also lots more possibilities if I decide to nix the speed oven idea, and I really do like those shelves softening the blow of the big honking fridge!

So... after all this, I'm not ready to block in that corner with a closet (yet) but i'm still on the speed-oven bandwagon. I think i'm going to work on some ideas for the upper cabinets in that corner like what Chrissy showed to see if there is something workable there. I'm also wondering about the practicality of mounting the speedoven under counter. I think there's a few threads floating around on that I need to find.

Please keep the ideas flowing, everyone! You've been a HUGE help!

Honestly, I'm at work...so I haven't read all this thread or the other, but do you really need two tables?

This plan has a walk way (actually almost a hallway) through your current kitchen. I can see why you want to change that...but why not make this entire space your kitchen?

Since your bigger table is in the family area, why not move the kitchen to the smaller dining space and make the opposite wall a long pantry/storage wall? You could include the fridge or ovens, depending on the design.

It would give you all the space you want/need and a direct path into the family area. Just an idea :)

Another idea for that corner:

Just run the floor-to-ceiling stuff (pantry, fridge, etc.) all the way across that wall with an appliance garage where the counter dies into the pantry. That would achieve the same thing as the closet expansion idea, but without the odd look of the drywall box in your kitchen.

While you're dreaming... Do you only have one bathroom? While you plan to move utilities around for your kitchen, could you use space above the stairs and the coat closet to squeeze in a 3/4 bath and create an en suite for your master?

Also... I like LL's suggestion of moving the kitchen all together. Depending on how you plan to use your front room, you could steal quite a bit of space from it for your kitchen. Perhaps reducing the front room to 11'7" x 15'0" rather than the 15'5"x15'

My gut reaction when seeing your entire floor plan was the same as lavender's, to only have one eating and one family room area since your home is small. Mickey, I like your U-shaped kitchen at the beginning of this thread but with the following changes:
1. Put a full size sofa in place of the bar stools. This seating provides the best view outdoors and a good conversational grouping.
2. Eliminate the breakfast table and place a pantry, microwave, coffee bar, or under counter beverage fridge in this area.
3. Place your dining area where you now have the living room. I would put up a wall with a large arch to provide an entry area. A skylight or solar tube could be added to provide light for the entry. Recess a door into the wall on either side of the arch to pull doors together to provide privacy when answering the front door during a meal.

By the way, I'm a great fan of a sink in a kitchen peninsula to allow the cook to interact with the family while preparing meals or cleaning up the kitchen. My kitchens have always been designed this way. That way the cook is always a part of the action.

I love it when you guys start to talk "big picture" like this!

Lavender_lass - the current layout (with the dining room and the additional table in the family room is simply a function of the fact that I have all this extra furniture. I definitely want to consolidate eating spaces as part of this. I have thought about swapping the kitchen and dining room and giving a straight shot to the back of the house, but a few things are giving me pause. First off, if I leave the current DR/LR archway intact (that would now become the KIT/LR archway), you see all my kitchen nonsense from the front door, which I don't want. Secondly, if I close off that archway and instead put a hallway across from the front door into the back room, well, I lose the archway (not even sure if it is original, but it is kind of cool looking) and I start to wonder if I'm changing the "style" of the house too much. It's probably a silly thing to worry about, but I like to think my house has a little bit of charm in a cookie cutter sort of way. When people first come in to my house, they are always shocked at how large it feels and I worry that erecting a wall between the DR and LR will kind of kill that. BUT, at this point, i'm not discounting ANY idea, so I'm filing yours away for future pondering =D

Jillius, thank you again! I'm definitely considering something like this... I especially like the alotment for cookbook storage -- something I haven't really accounted for in the current design!

Benjesbride, we have 2 bathrooms, one on the main floor and one in the basement. BUT, I have grand dreams (lol!) of adding an ensuite. At one point, I was thinking of shrinking the MBR to roughly 10x12 -- yikes!) and cramming in a 3/4 bath (4.5' x 7') and pitifully small WIC, but my current thinking is to relocate the stairs to the side wall of the formal Living Room (it works nicely with the basement below -- dumping out right into the main TV watching area) and reclaim the old stair space as a roomier bathroom/closet for the MBR. Granted, I have NO IDEA what is involved with moving stairs like that, so for now, it's just a dream, lol. You make an excellent point, though, about planning ahead on bringing the utilities over to that area with a future bathroom in mind. Duly noted!

Very insightful, Texasgal! I've often thought that the living room is a big blob of unused space, but it does make a nice entrance statement for visitors. Currently it houses some antiques (courtesy of my parents' downsizing). I'm not ready to abandon the "formal living room" concept, but I am thinking of shrinking it, and possibly relocating the stairs to the side wall (see my comments up above) to shrink the space and give it a bit more function. PLUS, the idea of having some sort of open stair railing in this area makes me swoon (can we say HOLIDAY GARLAND?) lol! I do like the idea of the breakfast bar, pantry, etc for the dining room, but the caveat is that it has to be pleasing to look at, as that area has prime visibility to the front door (at one point, I thought of stashing the fridge over there, but I just couldn't get past seeing it when you first enter the house. But then, where to put the dining table? A few times a year, we host family, so while the dining space doesn't have to be FORMAL, it still has to have a presence. I'd like 1 perpetual dining space for 6 post-remodel, with the ability to overtake other areas with tables and whatnot as circumstances dictate.

I think i'm going to play around to see if I can visualize some of these awesome ideas you all are putting forth. To summarize what I'll be working with: Keep some sort of formal living room to greet guests (affectionately call it a Parlor or something, lol), but explore shrinking it a wee bit, play around with expanding the kitchen into the current dining space somehow and see if I can get over my reluctance to kill the LR/DR archway, and figure out where we want to spend our time chowing down.

As always, you guys rock, thanks SO MUCH!

PS - looking at my whole floor plan above, I realize that the stairs in their current position aren't marked... OOPS! the stairs going down to the basement is the light blue rectangle smack dab in the middle, and they are accessed via a doorway in the family room -- also missing.

Very common challenge. Do I keep the 'original feeling' of the house...or make it work for how I really live?

Only you can decide what you want. Having a 'formal' room that isn't used, when you definitely need more kitchen space, might make you reconsider your plans.

Do you need a family room in the back? Would you want the living space in the front? Could you put the kitchen in the back....or maybe move the dining room to the front of the house? Either of these would allow you to redo the kitchen and stop duplicating spaces.

Don't get me wrong...sometimes it's great to have a smaller dining area or a separate TV and reading space. But, those things don't give you room for the kitchen you want to create.

So you have to ask yourself...how do you really live in the house? What would you like to do? What spaces work best and which ones don't? Do you watch TV downstairs and the upstairs is your living room...if so, why do you need a 'parlor' or front room? Do you use the space as a library? Give piano lessons? Or is it just how the house works now?

I think you have a LOT to consider, before you do any more planning. It's going to be expensive to make any changes other than cosmetic...and I hope you know exactly what you want and how you live, before you spend more than 'paint money'. Hope this helps :)

gotcha on the use of dead corner space from FR - that'd be too much work/expense!

on your proposed fridge wall (one of yr first posts) it shows a 9' wall... allowing 3' for fridge and 2' for the corner space, you'd have another 4' of counter space - that's a huge amount to me (and much needed in a family kitchen). You should be able to take a few more inches from it to allow wall space at the end of the fridge for the switches.

you could probably even take a 1' out of it to put a floor to ceiling cab to the left of the fridge (opening facing the table). Could be all enclosed with doors - or partially allowing shelves for the cookbooks. Space behind doors could be extra 'pantry' space. Do allow a few inches of extra space for growth of the fridge - who knows the width needed for a futuristic fridge!

stairway - check if there's any usable 'headspace' going down your basement stairs - or was all of it used in the closet ?

years ago my sister had a credenza type thing about 3' wide (not that deep) with doors on the front that opened to a 'folded' table. It pulled out into plenty of table space for our holiday dinners. A card table was set up by it for the younger kids (who didn't really want to sit with the adults anyway). Something like that might work in your LR space for occasional use.

Did I understand your post correctly - that tv watching is in the basement? Is most 'kid activity' down there also? If so, what is FR used for (basically)?

will probably post more later - after I reread your posts for what I missed/forgot!

Hey Desertsteph! Thank you so much for your continued interest in this thread! I totally appreciate all the brain power you (and everyone, for that matter) put in thus far!

I should have clarified for y'all in this post... we are (and will most likely remain) DINK's (double-income, no kids). It's just me, the Mr, 3 cats and 2 dogs and a pond full of goldfish in the back yard, lol.

The basement is finished and that's where the TV watching currently occurs, largely because we haven't gotten around to purchasing real lounging furniture and a second TV for the family room yet. When my elderly parents come over to visit (a few times a month), we all congregate up here because it's a little trecherous for them to navigate the staircase, but there's not much for them to do up here except stare at the birds on our feeders out the back (lol). So, TV needs to expand to the upstairs space.

Also, when we entertain, it usually turns in to a movie night so we all head downstairs. I'd like to have options for these social events -- keeping folks upstairs while I muddle about in the kitchen, with the option to retreat to the basement as the mood strikes.

When it's just us two, we are either both in the family room on our computers (sometimes we work from home, and that happens in the FR even though we have an alotted office space in one of the bedrooms -- the joys of having laptops!), or downstairs watching TV or playing xbox.

As for those dang stairs, the coat closet actually has a slanted floor to give the necessary headspace BUT there is a landing at the top of the stairs that pushes them forward about 3 feet -- that's a holdover from when there used to be a passthrough to the staircase right where my fridge currently resides.

I will say I'm actually pretty happy with the way the layout has evolved thus far, but I'm insanely curious to see what other possibilities may be out there.

One thing that hasn't been brought up is we have also considered moving the kitchen into the family room addition, but we aren't completely sold on that idea either, largely because I haven't come up with any ZOMGWOWZERS ways to give the space justice. Plus, that open peninsula to the back room is a tough act to follow.

You may not like what I have to say....I think you need to think long and hard about whether it is worth it to contort your kitchen too much just to get that one item.

I think the remodel layout looks great and the first 3D pic you posted with your fridge and pantry at the end of the run looks by far the best to me. The others all look choppy and awkward.

Couldn't you invest in a really rocking range with an amazing convection oven that could do almost the same thing as the speed oven?

I know it can be hard to cross things off your wish list due to space issues. I had to cross a separate cook top and wall ovens off my list. But I'm ok with it because I think it made for much better cooking flow and storage. Practical design may not be as sexy as that speed oven but it makes a huge difference in livability and function down the road.

I think getting a TV in the FR would be well worth it. Much safer for your parents for sure! Also, you can still keep up on a show you are watching while getting snacks from the kitchen - a very important issue!

If you put the kitchen where the FR is now, what would you do with the space where the kitchen is now? A formal DR? I like the idea of having the FR in the back. If someone comes to the door they don't walk right into your TV and computer space. Or where your parents/dh are watching a show (and munching). One can answer the door without disturbing anyone else watching tv or visiting in the FR.

I also like to have an area for someone to walk into that isn't strung with toys, books, tv on etc. In one home I made that 1st room (LR) my dining room. It worked out great. If they needed to sit down I just pulled out a DR chair... still kept the FR separate (I had teenagers at the time).
With entertaining I think it's a great LO - people can sit in the LR to talk, mingle in the kit/eating area with those snacking and then mosey on into the FR... sounds like a good flow to me.

You have a lot to consider (with dh) about your lifestyle needs - and wants.

How would it work out in your basement if the stairs went down to the right of the doorway - running under your bedroom along the outside wall? Where would they come out in your basement?