I like B better than A, but I would want the prep sink on the range side of the island (easier for emptying full pots of hot water, etc.). Then you could take produce from the frig. over to the prep sink, and into the wok, as an example.
Question:
How much traffic is likely to be impeded by that frig. placement, if any? Are people likely to traverse where you are working to get to the frig. for snacks? That would annoy me. For that reason, I put my frig. on an end away from where I prep and cook. Others have placed snack centers strategically for that purpose.

A snack center at the end of the range counter run is a possibility - traffic to main fridge in current location would probably go past cleanup sink rather than in front of range. Not an issue day-to-day, but could be a problem when entertaining. Thanks for pointing that out. I thought of placing the fridge on the end of the range wall, but the range seems crowded. I could then move the range to the wall where fridge now is but then my prep space near it is limited.

I echo kitchendective. But also with this design, guests that are sitting in the family room, and aren't congregating in the kitchen, can easily talk and see you.

Which door is used for groceries?
Which opening is the most frequently used entrance to the kitchen?
Where are the bedrooms?

Groceries come in through the garage which is down a hallway (noted on plans). We most frequently enter the kitchen from that direction. Bedrooms are all upstairs.

Good questions!

I don't see a pantry in Plan B?
If you were to do Plan B as is; I'd flip the prep sink to the other side of the island right across from the cooktop.
OR take Plan A as your basis and...
What about putting the sink and DW in the island. I don't know your code but could you then put the cooktop under the window and overlooking the deck?

In any layout; I'd prefer the frig to be on the end of a run closer to the family room.

Hi remodelfla,

Nope - no pantry in Plan B. I actually don't like the deep pantry I have now, even though I try really hard to keep it organized with bins and labels. I'd prefer shallow storage for small items like cans and jars and drawers for larger items like flour canisters, etc. My thought with Plan B is to use the upper and lower cabs between the fridge and range as food storage.

I think you're all right on the placement of the prep sink - it should relate to the range more...probably on the island across from it. I'd like to keep my main sink under the window - doing dishes is my least favorite kitchen duty so with the sink under the window I have the view into the backyard to enjoy. Also, one of my main goals on this remodel is to clear off more usable space on the island which is why I am getting rid of the cooktop there. Its where we set out appetizers and buffets when entertaining friends, and where I'd like to be able to roll out dough for baking.

I'll try the fridge at the end of the counter by the family room. Right now that's the spot for our phone, and the computer. I'm sitting there as I type :) The desk is going - too small to be practical, though I was planning on putting my laptop there on the standard height counter with a drawer underneath to stash it when we have guests. What if I put a undercounter fridge down at that end?

Thanks for your input!

I like your first design but I would move the pantry to the end of the run closer to the family room, it will give you a longer stretch of counter space. I also like that the fridge & pantry are on the wall by the walk space to the family room, which means you won't have people walking through your zone when using the fridge or pantry. I also think you would like the island with out a sink in it, you need the counter space and with one cook you really don't need a prep sink.

Do you currently have a dishwasher? If not you may be surprised that having a window above your sink is not as important. My window is above my food prep and range wall where I spend far more of my time. What are the dimensions of the room?

Darn, I had typed out a long and really brilliant :) response, but its now gone. I guess I should have practiced more before I put out the big request for help.

Its really important to me to keep the island as clear as possible - a prep sink at the most. And I guess we're in the minority because we don't access the fridge or pantry that much except for meal prep. There's just the three of us - though my 14 year old son is a bottomless pit. Even most snacks seem to need some kind of prep - washing fruit or something. We have a fridge in the garage and most beverages are out there. Could be we are missing out on a great convenience - though I don't need to make eating anymore convenient than it already is :) It just doesn't seem like our kitchen is soooo big that it would be inconvenient to go another 5 feet to the fridge. We have a pretty calm household - miss the madness I grew up with being one of 5 kids. What if I put the undercounter fridge at the end of the cabinet run with a snack cabinet above.

I would love to have the entire area under the window for prep - but that means putting the main sink and dw in the island - have to think about that.

Oh, lets see, going counter-clockwise, the window wall is 10', the dining room wall 14' and the wall against the stairwell is 13'. Should also mention the wall around the family room is actually a half height railing, so its all very open.

Here's a new version based on your comments...

susanilz5,

Sorry, I missed your post. One of the things I didn't like about that layout was the lack of continuous counter space on that wall. Let me try moving the pantry down, or maybe eliminating it since deep pantries are not my favorite. Perhaps a step in pantry at the end of the counter run...

You're island is 3'deep? And no need for overhang seating? If that is correct, an idea I had for one of my many layouts may work for you. I was/am planning on making one side of my island with 15" depth cabs... you could use 12" depth and use those lowers as nice shallow pantry space. It would be real accessible to the cooktop. Just an idea.

Remodelfla -

We're on the same track! The island is only 3' wide. We were planning 24" deep cabs on one side and 12" deep on the other. It would be great space either for pantry storage or small appliances - I measured and even my Kitchenaid mixer would fit. We're planning a 24" overhang with legs on the end of the island, figuring we could slip 3 small stools in there. I've been following the evolution of your layout and some very creative ideas have come up - this forum is great! Thanks for taking time out of planning your kitchen to help me.

Pepper07,

Think about how you use your kitchen. It sounds like you need more counter space, so leave the island for rolling dough, or putting out appetizers, I know you won't ever regret that wonderful flowing space.... On the back wall you can put the pantry at the end near the family room. It dosen't have to be a cabinet style pantry. I have a small pantry at the end of my cabinet run that is almost the same depth of the cabinets, it's only about 36" wide, but it holds all the food and staples a family of 5 could use. During parties you can use that counter space as a bar area.

Extra paper towels etc are stored in my laundry room. The reason I like your first plan is because it makes everything easy for the cook, a few steps to your sink and stove and you can prep on the island or next to the sink depending on whats going on. I have a similar set up and it works great. Can't wait to see pictures of your Lacanche!

Hi susanilz5,

Woke up early this morning so my kitchen design priorities are a bit different...where is the best space for the coffee maker! LOL

Thanks for your insight. I don't have any concerns about storage - I have room elsewhere in the house for convenient storage of infrequently used appliances and extra paper goods. It seems the real bottleneck is the sink. DH does actually cook, on the grill usually, and we grill year round. He does need space for prep and serving. My concern with the current single sink is the limited space between the sink and table, only 18". While clearing dishes that space quickly overflows to the left of the sink and the island. When entertaining, we tend to stack the dishes and then my husband and I finish clean up after guests leave. We like this time to regroup and talk about the food the wine, the evening. Anyway, problem with that is if I need the sink or cooktop at all to prepare dessert its crowded. The first plan addresses that a bit by adding space to the right of the sink, but does so by stealing from the left side near the range reducing prep space. Wish that wall were 5' longer!

I guess I like the latest plan better as it separates the prep and cooking from the cleanup better than the other plan. Does anyone see any other issues?

bump?

How about putting the prep sink on the end of the range run, closest to the basement/garage? Then your island is free/flat, and the sink provides prep for stove without having to drip across the aisle, as well as hand washing (if that doesn't gross you out--I encourage my prep sink to be used for that but some folks cringe at the thought). I like the idea of shallow "pantry" cabs on the range side of the island, for canned goods, boxes of stuff etc., to keep them handy for the cook.

Well, I don't post much these days since our project was put on hold, but I'm fascinated with your plan because it is so similar to ours! (Your Plan A.) Can you give me the room dimensions? (You have a little more space on the sink run and your eating area is larger.) I've played with the plan plenty and tried all sorts of options, but always come back to the same one as it seems the most useful to me. If you want more room on the sink run, can you steal a little from the dining room, or is that a hallway? Mine is the entry and I'm actually planning on stealing one foot from the kitchen to widen the entryway slightly, as the narrowness of it bugs me. Where is your microwave, or don't you use one? I like the idea of Plan A because it sets the cook/chief bottle washer away from the traffic, which is something I do not have now and would love. Also it keeps the traffic running straight through, instead of taking a jaunt, as in Plan B. If you borrow just a little space from the family room just before it angles, you could put in a shallow (12-15") pantry cupboard where cans, etc. can't be shoved to the back. That's all I can think of for now, for what it's worth!

Putting the sink next to the range, rather than across from it is an interesting idea - I've seen it done (perhaps it was someone here??). Draining the pasta would be a cinch!

Anyone out there have this arrangement? How well does it work?

Next to, or adjacent?

sjerin,

To be honest, I turned dimensions off on the BHG software because I was having a heck of a time getting them to match real life - I'm new to that software so have to tweak the plan before the software has exact dimensions. The sink window wall is 10', the dining room wall is 14', and the wall against the stairwell is 13'. The nook is about 8 x 8 but with the corners clipped. the door into the dining room goes straight there - no hallway. My furniture just fits comfortably in there so no room to steel there. The microwave right now is in the oven stack - we don't use it much but will put it either next to the fridge, or in the island.

I am concerned that Plan B takes my guests right past the sink full of dirty dishes on their way to a fabulous gourmet meal - not too appetizing. LOL

The 'wall' between the kitchen and the family room is actually a railing and there are 2 steps down from the kitchen into the FR - a very 80's house!

Another reason to love Plan A! Thanks for the dimensions; I look forward to seeing what you end up with. Wonder if Bhuel(sp?) might chime in.

isn't adjacent 'next to' ?

I've seen a sink in a cabinet on either side of the range on the same wall :)

sjerin

What other options did you look at for your kitchen? Do you have the same traffic flow? Since it sounds like your kitchen is similar I'd love to hear the process you went through. Sorry your project is on hold - we started looking into this over 3 years ago but couldn't decide what to do. We were supposed to start this spring but just haven't come up with that eureka plan yet.

I'm planning a chef sink and potfiller next to my cooktop. Maybe you saw the inspiration pic I posted?

{{gwi:1581559}}

Sorry for the mix-up, pepper. I guess I think of "adjacent" as having a corner between the sink and range, and "next to" on the same straight counter run. I think it would be very convenient to have one just around the corner from the other as it would only require a couple of steps from one to the other, as long as there's enough prep room. I was so disappointed to have to stop the project, just after the plans were basically finished and just before we signed with a contractor, that I put everything dealing with plans into a box in the garage. Therefore, I'll have to rely on my memory-- uh-oh!

I considered the possibility of adding a lowered section onto the island to serve as a kitchen table, as I don't care for island seating. In that way I thought I could use the current nook space in some capacity, but because it bumps out from the other wall and has a window, I realized that I wouldn't be able to put a longed-for hutch there (close to dw,) nor the fridge, which would have freed up space elsewhere. If I brought the opening to the entry closer to the sink wall, I could reconfigure on the other side of the door, but that would force me to use a prep sink, which I'm not sure I want to do, as well as have the traffic flow take a turn. Right now, my galley kitchen has the sink and stovetop separated by the doorway which means traffic is constantly in my way when I'm cooking. So, back I went to the original plan. My restrictions that force me back are:

--Sink under the window (I get so bored too!)
--Stovetop or range close-ish to sink and not on island, due to my messy (Indian) cooking style.
--Traffic out of my way while cooking!
--A separate kitchen table (I just feel more comfortable with this.)
--Still can't decide whether a prep sink will be helpful to me
--Enclosed kitchen, meaning not open to the family room because of forementioned messy cooking.
--Hope to have a raised dw due to back problems, but probably no room for a counter between it and the sink. This is what led me to consider using the nook space for more counter space and/or hutch.

My traffic flow goes from what would be your dining room/living room door to family room (almost same location for me.) We intend to move a door that is currently near the table that leads to the garage, to the family room instead. What is your doorway to the basement, study, etc. is mine into the dining area; (it's too small to be called a proper dining room--I'm in a ranch in No. Cal.) You have more space than I will (someday!) but mine will also be mostly a square with the same doorway locations. Those doorways dictate quite a lot! Hope I didn't go too off-topic.

You know, if you go with plan A, you really don't need a prep sink, you have only the fridge to cross over a doorway to get to, probably less traffic flow, and less to be done to accomplish it. I'm liking plan A. Oh, and maybe that's because it's very similar to my first kitchen, the second kitchen, the first remodel...it was quite convenient for cooking, having the range and sink in those locations. I added a prep sink in the corner of the island next to the range and sink and LOVED that, but we had seating on the other side, so prepping was more fun facing that way, so not really an issue here.

Hmmmmm, spring seems really close! Good luck!

erikanh - yes, it was you! I have some of the same inspiration pics in my files. I'm going back through some threads on your kitchen. Love the design...you have so much room! Yours will be beautiful.

In addition to the chef's sink, I think you also have a prep sink in your island, right? I can see why a sink next to the range would be so helpful for you considering the distances in your kitchen. I think a chef's sink is such a more useful idea than just a pot filler. Yes, you can fill the pot, but you still have to carry a pot to the sink. So convenient if its right there!

sjerin - It would be frustrating to have a doorway between the sink and doorway. I can picture a lot of messy collisions! I'm not a fan of island seating either - DH insisted. So, I'm including 'just enough'. I've also tried to come up with better layouts utilizing the bay area - seems too big for the table that will fit there, which is limited by those clipped corners and door to deck. I remember a kitchen that did take the bay and put a sink there, but I think they ended up with all their seating at an island. Couldn't find the thread.

We may be able to remove the angled section of the railing between kitchen and family room. It is attached to a post but I don't think that one is structural and can be relocated or eliminated. I'd like to replace some of the railing (there is so much). I think shallow cabs with bookshelves or doors would be great. Hope you're able to get your project back on track soon.

claybabe - with Plan A my idea was to prep at the island which is why I thought a sink there might help. What I tend to do is use one area to prep ingredients and line them all up on the space next to the cooktop - the concept of mise en place, except that sounds too organized for the way I do it :)

How much counterspace did you have between your sink and cooktop? Mine will be limited.

Oh, and that spring I talked about...that was last spring :( I have my Lacanche sitting in my garage, all crated up. That seems to be a familiar scenario. I'm envious of those of you who have taken delivery of your appliances and they go straight to their home in the kitchen.

Soon...very soon!

A few questions/thoughts:

But Plan A doesn't separate prep and clean-up, which I thought was one of the goals?

If you do an island prep sink, I would put the sink closer to the dining room side end of the island, so you don't break up the island surface area as much.

I like the sink next to the range photo for emptying pasta pots, etc. , but not for prepping because I would need space to dry things before dumping them into a pan. How would you be using a second sink, if you had one? Related to emptying pots, filling pans with prepped food, what are the distances and number of steps in your current plans between range and closest sink? Would these distances/ turns be convenient enough for you? Do they follow the NKBA guidelines?

Are you sure there would be room for 3 seats at island, as you envision it? Are you thinking 2 on the end and one on the side? Or all three on the end?

Yes, that't the problem with Plan A - good for traffic, not so good for separation of zones. I would only worry about traffic into the dining room being a problem with Plan B when we entertain - about once a month. Separation of zones is a day-to-day issue, so I need to prioritize the issues.

I agree there would have to be a good amount of space on the same side of the range for a chef's sink to work for me. I tried putting it in my Plan B layout, but I think in my situation I prefer across the aisle on the island (Plan B) or on the perpendicular counter area (Plan A without sink). My aisles are 42" - the distance to sink from range would be about that in Plan A and B. I am going to go back and review NKBA guidelines - its been a while since I've read them all, but I believe they recommend less than 4 feet between work areas.

Seating at the island would be one on each side and one at the end with a 24" overhang with legs - see cubby14's kitchen in the FKB which is very similar to my layout.