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vogt300

Everything has a place in this kitchen (I hope!)

vogt300
12 years ago

I took to heart the feedback we got from a previous Kitchen Forum post asking for help laying out our kitchen cabinetry. Here is a mock-up and again we would love reactions, suggestions, and opinions on how well this will work.

I used Lowe's kitchen planner, which was a lot of fun and a little frustrating. Not everything is exactly what we want, but it's close. Here's the 3D pic:

From Kitchen Renovation

And here's the floorplan:

From Kitchen Renovation

And here are the details:

Countertop: black granite or soapstone, well, or quartz -- we need to go see more samples in person

Cabinets: maple, light to mid-stain ("autumn" in the lowes planner), shaker style

Wall color and backsplash are next on the list of things to figure out!

Base cabinets, numbered clockwise from top-left of the floorplan:

#2 pans, corningware

3 trays

- range, 30"

4 pull-out spice rack

5 oven mitts (upper), serving and baking (lower)

6 small appliances; convection toaster on counter

7 dishtowels, aluminum foil etc, measuring spoons etc

- dishwasher

8 36" sink cabinet, cleaning supplies

9 silverware (upper), tupperware (lower)

- fridge, 36" x 36" French door 28 cu. Ft.

10 pantry (3.5 feet, it will go from fridge to the wall)

Island, from top:

14 trash bin

15 cutting boards, knives in top drawer

16 pots, corning storage

17 lunchboxes, waterbottles

(13, 12, 11, 20, 19 will not be full cabinets; we plan to have 12" deep base cabinets and then an oval overhang for stools--thank you!-that I couldn't create with the software)

Wall cabinets, clockwise from top

25 message center --thank you for the suggestion!(checkbook, mail/bills, coupons, recipe box, cookbooks, corkboard, calendar, craft supplies, iPad, remote controls; this cabinet will go to the ceiling like all the others on that wall)

16 wine rack

27 microwave, cabinet for tea & cocoa

28 wine rack

29 extra dishes, small serving

30-32 tea cups, glasses and glass bowls

33 dishes

36 dishes, kids dishes & cups

37 liquor, vases

Distance between range and island=45"

Distance between sink and island=48"

Distance between fridge and island=38"

Oh, and to the left of the cabinets and under the window will be a desk for the kids computer (for play not work). I know lots of folks here don't like desks in the kitchen, but it's a good place for us. We're not sure if we will do a built in or a furniture piece.

And here are some questions:

1. The end of the fridge and the end of the island don't line up: will that look bad?

2. Is it better to store pots by the sink to make it easy to fill with water, or by the range?

3. Do people like pull-out spice racks in base cabinets or is it better to store in wall cabinet/somewhere else?

4. Wine racks: we won't be storing as much wine for 2 racks this size, but I don't know how to make it look ok with only one...different location or a horizontal rack?

5. We're looking at bamboo flooring: any experience with it, concern, likes, etc?

Comments (27)

  • User
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    1. I don't think anyone will notice.... so, NO! That is something I worried about during my design process as well.... but, in retrospect, I worried about some silly things :)
    2. Mine are in drawers in between. Some pots go straight on the stove (with just some oil in them...) ... some go to the sink to be filled. In-between seems to make sense.
    3. I prefer mine in an upper cabinet. I don't like bending over and searching for something small.... I'd rather look, at eye level, at my choices.
    4. The wine-o's on this forum are going to yell at you for storing wine in a suboptimal location. Wine ages best in dark, cool places. You will definitely have heat coming from your cooktop/oven that could hurt those bottles... and heat rises. (I have my wine over my fridge, which I have been criticized for on here..... the fridge, at least, doesn't put off noticeable heat and the lowest bottles are about a foot above it....) I think sticking with the island for your wine storage might be the best idea. That also will get rid of your problem of balancing the sides of the micro area. Maybe pull out spice racks go here? How much room is it?
    5. NA

  • cmm6797
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm a little disappointed with our pull-out spice/oil rack. It's in a lower cabinet right next to the stove. The top shelf is not adjustable so only very short things can fit there ( not even regular size spice jars). Oils, vinegars, etc. fit on the very bottom shelf and it's just kind of awkward because you can't see what's on the middle or bottom shelf just by pulling it out. You have to bend down to see it. It's not awful, and if you have a 9" space to fill, it seems a good use of space. But I now realize that I preferred the way I had it in our old kitchen, just pulling oils out of a top cabinet.

    It might work better if all shelves in the pullout were adjustable.

    Who knew? Sometimes all this customization just seems to complicate things.

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  • dianalo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'd lose the wine racks, for the reasons stated by lolauren and more importantly by what you said. If you don't need them, then why pay for something you don't need and it takes away space from something you do need. If you want a few places for wine, put a simple single stack wine rack in your island as suggested. That should hold 4 or 5 bottles.

    I'd then move your micro over to the right, next to the glass cab and put it a little lower than the OTR setup on a shelf approx 12-14" over the counter. Then you can get a real venthood for your stove. It need not have monster suction or all the bells and whistles but it would be better than the kind that comes as a micro combo. This way, if the micro ever fails, you replace it easier. The micro will be easier to use lower down and people can use it without bothering the cook all the time.

  • ginny20
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I don't have a place with high stools in the kitchen, so I may not understand how this works, but does your island have an overhang? If it doesn't, how do you pull the stools up to the island? Wouldn't your knees get in the way, or would you have to reach over to get to the counter?

  • herbflavor
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I would morph the 2 cabs to the rt of microwave,[wine cubbie and 12 incher next to it],into one 21 in or 24 in with 2 doors.Whatever that size-do the same to the left of microwave and keep the bottom of these in synch with bottom of microwave. You'll gain more elbow room around range-[seems a little jammed in].... The tall hutch will shrink in width a bit to allow similar cab to the left of microwave, but that hutch seems oversized. You will gain wall storage with these cabs and I think you could use it in your design...cooking ingredients..the other 2 larger cabs around sink are no doubt for dishes.Nice looking space....

  • ellaf
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ginny20 is right, your island as configured doesn't work for seating. Your options:
    - no chairs
    - add overhang
    - reduce depth of cabinets below.
    Won't the cabinets be hard to get to if you have chairs in front of them?

  • ellaf
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    read your message more thoroughly and see those are 12" deep. Still holds true about access to the cabinets though, maybe those are little used or seasonal items?

  • Mercymygft
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No real comments on the layout of your kitchen. But, what I am impressed with is your ability to figure out the Lowe's Kitchen Planner! I tried messing with it but without much luck, which might be for the better....as I would probably have to be dragged kicking and screaming away from my laptop if I could figure it out...LOL!!

  • vogt300
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks everyone, this is really helpful.

    Ginny20 and ellaf: We do plan to have an overhang of the countertop on the island for seating, but I couldn't create that on Lowe's program. I used regular cabinets to represent the right amount of space, but imagine the countertop without the cabinets underneath, and an oval shape to the overhang. The 12" cabinets will be for extra storage, rarely used items that need a home.

    I think you are all right about the wineracks. I'm worried about putting them in the island within reach of the little kids in our house. They won't be little forever, but 2 boys near glass bottles seems dangerous :) We could even just store them in the pantry.

    I'll play around with the cabinetry around the range. I love the idea of cabinets the height of the microwave one to create more elbow room. I also like the idea of the MW in a cabinet next to the range, so we can cook with both at the same time. DH wants it over the range, but it may be something open for negotiation!

    And I had doubts about the spice rack in lower cabinets. Based on what you are saying, I think we'll put them in upper cabinets like we do now.

    mercymygft: thank you! i started using IKEA's planner but the options for cabinets and appliances weren't as good for us. Lowe's is the same kind of program so I already had lots of practice with it. It was frustrating, but so worth it. I love seeing the final mock up!

    Does anything else seem out of place?

  • ginny20
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I love the idea of a curved overhang.

    I think you will prefer the MW where dianalo suggested, and lower than OTR height. As the little ones get bigger, they'll want to use the MW. If it's too high, this is a recipe for disaster. Also, you can have more space directly over the stove (and a better hood) if the MW is to the side. And I agree with you, it will be better if someone else can use the MW while you're cooking without getting in your way.

  • herbflavor
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Your cabinet door appears to be a recessed 5 panel construction..more modern than traditional. I'd do a single pane of glass in your glass uppers with some fluted/reeded/frosted/or some textured glass-not the panes with clear glass-too traditional. It didn't quite work, visually, as the eye wants to settle there then confusion of styles occurrs. Seek out some kind of texture-it'll be easier to clean without panes and look more in synch-will be really nice...there's beautiful glass available. Your space with lg island and pendant lights and dramatic counters can handle more "feature" glass.

  • User
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    For easier access (much, much easier access!) I'd change #2 (pans) and #9 (tupperware) to drawers instead of doors. And if your pots aren't too tall for a deep drawer, I switch to drawers for #16 (pots/corningware) as well.

    Cheers, from another light-medium maple shaker/black countertop kitchen. (FWIW, we went with a natural maple floor and green walls.)

  • rhome410
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mnerg noticed what I did...So many of your base cabinets are doored, instead of drawers. I LOVE my nicely sized drawers...so much better for accessing and arranging. Some of the few cabinets that I left as drawer and door combos, I'm changing to drawers.

    I'm not a fan of diagonal corner cabinets, base or upper, or the over the range microhood. You can get better venting from a dedicated hood vent, and it doesn't have to be so low and in your face while cooking. The diagonal cabs have tighter access and deeper, darker storage than 90 degree fronted corner cabs. The 90 degree ones also leave you more floor and head space, as well as longer counter frontage.

    I would adjust the doors on the facing side of the island to be of equal or another visually pleasing size and arrangement.

    Otherwise, it looks pretty nice and to answer your questions:

    1) Not a problem, IMO

    2) Not all pots and pans get water, so they're better by the stove.

    3) I keep my spices in uppers flanking my hood...Where you show the wine racks. I like them there (easy to see and reach, as needed), but it's just the way I've always had it, so have no experience with other options.

    4) I am not a wine person. We have our few, rarely accessed open bottles in the fridge, and any closed bottles in the pantry. As others have said, I think that's not a good place for the racks, for the wine's sake and because it's prime real estate for other things.

    5) No knowledge or experience with bamboo flooring.

  • blfenton
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wine racks, as has been mentioned should be in a cool darker place - so away from direct sunlight (so watch the path of your sun), and away from anything that generates heat.

    Drawers, drawers, drawers, I have one lower cupboard that has a couple of phone books (just in case) in it. Otherwise it is not used and I should have listened to my KD and made it another drawer.

    Do you have room in the island to put an undercounter or drawer MW and put a true vent above the range?

  • vogt300
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Are drawers better than cabinets with pull-out drawers? That's what I was thinking for the pots and pans and other cabinets.

    mnerg: do you have any pics? I would love to see how it looks when it's all done. what kind of backsplash did you choose?

  • blfenton
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Cabinets with pull-out drawers are a two-step process and accidents waiting to happen.
    Step 1. Open the cabinet doors.
    Step 2. Pull-out the drawer and hope you have opened the cabinet doors wide enough that you don't hit them.
    Step 3. Close the drawer.
    Step 4. close the cabinet doors and hope that you have pushed the drawer in far enough that you don;t hit it when you close the doors.

    Drawers - Just like the cutlery drawers you have in your current kitchen - open and then close.

    Yes, drawers are better.

  • vogt300
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here's an updated version--removing the wine racks, adding a hood, and changing door cabinets to drawer cabinets.

    From Kitchen Renovation

    I don't know anything about hoods: I assume you need a 30" hood for a 30" range? With moving the microwave over (it will go in the 24" open cabinet to the right of hood), I slimmed down the glass cabinet to 12" but it still seems too close to the stove and hood.

    I am tall and we use the MW a lot so I don't like the idea of having it in the island where I would need to bend down every time I need to put something in. I love the idea of a MW drawer but it's so expensive. A wall cabinet seems like the best if it's not going to be over the range.

    herbflavor: thanks for the suggestion on the glass cabinets. I was thinking of doing that, but more to hide what I'm sure will be messy cabinets. So it's good to know that it would better fit the more modern design we have! I saw a rice paper glass pane that I fell in love with, but will look at other options too.

    rhome410: thanks for the feedback on the corner cabinets. i had no idea what type would work best and the diagonal seemed to be the most accessible space, but now will look more closely at the 90 degree cabinets.

  • blfenton
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you're going with the modern design then an exposed vent as drawn is the way to go.

    Hardcore kitchen people will tell you to go 36" vent for a 30" stove and many people on this site will have done that. I didn't and do a lot of stir fry and have not noticed a problem. My upper cabinets but right to the edge of the vent. I think what is more important is the power of the vent and balancing that with the noise produced.
    Yep, more research for you to do.

  • dianalo
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I can't believe I missed that there were several base cabs that weren't drawers on the first go round. I love my drawers so much better than regular base cabs. My new kitchen is so much nicer because of that. My tall pasta pot fits in a deep drawer, so I would guess only a lobster pot wouldn't. I would not want a lobster pot residing full time in my kitchen anyway because that is a lot of size that is rarely used.
    You will love drawers so much better. I had a few pullouts in my first house and really appreciated them. I then moved to this house with no pullouts and it was awful. The new kitchen has all drawers for the base cabs and it is light years better than any kitchen I have ever lived with. It blows away the pullouts for all the reasons stated. I also like how there is less banging and someone can open a drawer next to me if I have a drawer open. You can't do that with pullouts. I also love it for the Tupperware drawer because nothing ever falls off the sides as they can do in a pullout.
    The only cab we have that is not a drawer banks is our sink cab and I sometimes wonder if I should have tried to work something out for that as well ;)

    Your new pic looks so much more modern. I agree about getting frosted or reeded glass and skipping the mullions. I'd also consider the easy reach corner cab over the diagonal kind. It is a neater, fresher look and you can reach what is in there much better.
    Your venthood looks snazzy, but if budget reasons or needing more storage are an issue, you can get the kind that goes under a cab. You can't put much above one, but it does hold a few things. If you can swing it, the chimney style one looks better for the look you seem to be headed towards.
    Our venthood is 36" wide over a 37.5" vintage stove. No one has ever noticed and it is so powerful (or was, before the gc's people damaged it) that it should suction out cooking smells and grease just fine. I never was one to use the venthood much in previous kitchens, so it is an improvement over what we had by tenfold. I don't deep fry and used to only use it for the most stinky stuff. Usually, I like when our house smells like dinner or whatever is being cooked?

  • Jakzof3
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Great kitchen...you will love the pot and pan deep drawers..used very few cabinets...almost all drawers in our remodel. Our island has drawers on one side and cabinets on the other....love the storage. We sit on the shorter end..16 inch overhang. Only room for two though, but we are retired and the grandkids are the ones who use the island bar. Make sure you ask for deep pan drawers or they won't fit tall cookware. I have a smaller drawer on top and two larger on the bottom. I have a huge pantry so I have lots of room for all of the extra cooking/baking things. I put my glass cabinet on the end and have it lighted. My girlfriend has a piggy back drawer on top of her pot and pan drawers and i love that. Diamond is one brand of cabinets that does this double drawer..really great though.

  • desertsteph
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "So many of your base cabinets are doored, instead of drawers"

    i noticed that also. glad to see the update to drawers.

    is the end cab that goes down to the counter going to have glass in it? If not, maybe you could do split doors on it? separate doors for maybe the top 2 shelves. It just looks so 'long in door'. That's a lot of door to open each time you need something in there.

    otherwise, with the changes you've made it's looking good.

    panes are a pain to clean!

  • herbflavor
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    from a design point of view, a wall microwave will butt out more inches than a 12 in cab. Bear that in mind-you have such a nice looking space now along that run. Often an 18 in deep cabinet is installed next to frig where the increase depth works better. Sharp microwaves has a "above counter" microwave at 24 in wide which installs with a bracket right onto wall-no cabinet to house the appliance-you should know before you order cabs. The other shallow one is ge spacemaker-installs under a cabinet with a bracket.I think it's good to pick the unit and then figure the cabinets around-people get in a pickle about this sometimes.If you moved range/hood to the rt a bit, microwave could be installed at the very end-borrow some space from hutch..reconfigure,yes..but, people doing snacks and warmups can easily use that space at the end.

  • vogt300
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks for all the positive comments. It's getting there. And thanks for the heads up about the depth of wall microwaves, that's important to figure out. I have my homework: look into hoods, wall microwaves, and corner cabinets.

    I appreciate the comments on the hutch and I am SOLD on drawers in the base cabinets.

  • djg1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I think it looks very nice, and nothing is perfect, certainly not my own kitchen layout.

    WRT layout -- I like the available surface around and across from the range. I do wonder about the fact that you've positioned the fridge rather far from the range, and that there's nearly a corner to turn -- sort of, around the island, between both the fridge and the knives/prep on the one hand and the range on the other. I'm just sort of wondering rather than criticizing -- seems not so bad if you always do a very careful and complete mis-en-place before you start cooking, but add a family member or a couple of guests to the kitchen and what happens if you want to dash back to the fridge and/or the knives and cutting board?

    Wine racks -- our kitchen came with a wine rack and we finally had it removed when we did some updates earlier this year. Took up a lot of space and I didn't think it was very useful. I keep a few bottles upstairs, but I store my wine elsewhere. That suggests two different types and purposes of wine rack. For long-term storage -- anything from a month or two to decades -- wines should see stable, cellar or cave-like temperatures. For any volume of wines, it's easiest to do this outside the kitchen, and perhaps not very handy at all to try to do it right in the kitchen. For short-term storage, it can be handy to have a few bottles in or near the kitchen. You don't want them by the stove, and some people buy small 6-bottle wine fridges for the kitchen, but I think you can fudge temperature and humidity control substantially in the short term, provided you never get the wines super warm, and provided you serve them at a decent temperature. Maybe just a six-bottle rack in the next room? Or in a cabinet well away from the stove?

    The microwave-hood thing -- some of these work fine if you vent to the outside, and don't do much in the way of pan searing, pan frying, or stir frying. But having finally added a proper hood with a fairly high-capacity blower (1100 cfm in a straight shot up through attic and roof, via a 10" duct), I have to say that I never want to go back to the other type of arrangement. We have full depth, but our hood is no wider than our range and it works great. I realize that this type of arrangement doesn't work for everybody, but I thought I'd highlight it as something that can make a big difference in a kitchen.

  • User
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm glad to see the switch to drawers, and do hope you'll like them. One more thought--I'd check the interior usable depth of the two drawers slated for pans, against what depth you need for your cookware. As drawn, they may be deeper than necessary (unless you have tall stockpots, or large saucepans with handles that angle up sharply, or plan to store lids vertically there), allowing you to put a third, shallow drawer on top. Such a shallow drawer could hold pan lids, or potholders, or spices, or whisks/wooden spoons/spatulas, or an immersion blender, or whatever you'd want near the range.

    I'm sorry that I don't have photos of a completely finished kitchen yet (just bought fabric to make window shades, still looking for a table...) but here a couple shots from near completion. Given the lack of many upper cabinets, we decided against a tile backsplash and stuck instead with 3" of the countertop soapstone to fill the space under the window trim, and a stainless sheet behind the range. The colors of the second photo are probably truest, and honestly, the cabinets surrounding the fridge don't loom IRL quite as large as they seem to in the photo.

    {{gwi:1636542}}

    {{gwi:1648392}}

    {{gwi:1758885}}

  • blfenton
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    mnerg has a good point about doing 3-drawer stacks of drawers. Do the top one less deep - like the depth of a regular cutlery drawer for kitchen cutlery and or cooking cutlery, then the other 2 below are deeper (same depth) for pots, pans, casserole dishes, hand appliances (grinders, small hand-held mixer etc).