two girls... I've enjoyed watching your layout come together. Truly beautiful. I'm loving everything. Just an FYI though... I remember that you wanted to keep costs down as much as possible. I believe that inset cabs are more expensive; though would most certainly look outstanding with your setup. Good luck! You give me hope that I'll eventually come up with a layout I love as well.

Gorgeous!

i like the look of it and i don't mind that the uppers don't align with the lowers BUT, 12" is very narrow especially for an inset door and depending on the height they could look out of proportion; like tall sticks.
maybe you could try simplifying it a bit and do all the uppers (which would give you four) at a 19.5 width? jmo. GL!

remodelfla - Oh man, its been a process. I feel like my whole life has been consumed with this kitchen. I fall asleep thinking about it and wake up thinking about it. I got a quote from the Amish cabinet place I'd like to work with for inset cabinets and it was actually reasonable. His design wasnt this one though. So I sent this new layout over to him and asked him to price it for me. Hoping hoping hoping I can make it work. :)

Kateskouros is right, 12" wide cabinets, especially inset, aren't very useful....or at least not as useful as, say 18+ inches. Have you thought about:
18" + 42" (w/two 21" glass doors) + 18"
21" + 36" (w/two 18" glass doors) + 21"

Your 3D look has much wider cabinets...two 39" wall cabs (w/two 19-1/2" glass doors each)

If that is goin to be your baking area. I'd rather have corbels and the back tie the uppers and bases together that tiny cabinets that will collect splashes, splatters and guk. I have 15" framekess drawers on the sides of my hutch and they are useful, but I don't know that the 12" inset would be worth the bother, clenaing issues or expense.

two girls, I know you have seen my "secretary/hutch" because we discussed it on another thread, but I have to concur that 12" with inset cabinets isn't much. Our hutch is very similar to yours except the "outer" cabinets are 18" each and the "inner" cabinet (one, not two) is 36" for a 6' total width. Maybe some proportions like this could work for you, especially if your bases were 24" deep and the uppers only 12"? (Our middle cabinet is 15" deep and the sides are only 12" because we were limited in space in our nook)

So the concensus is, 12" insets just arent going to cut it. I was hoping to save as much counter space as possible and still get some cabinets to the counter.

jaymielo - The dimensions of your hutch really help me visualize. The 18's look good. Can you tell me if your 12" depth cabinets hold large plates without a problem? Im not sure how much room the inset style takes away from the interior. I could bump out the depth of the middle upper like yours, hmmm...

lascatx - I could change them to 15" wide. That would give me 48" open counter. Kinda tighter than I would like. Problem is I like cab's to counter better than the corbel look.

I dont really want to leave it as a basic 39-39. Trying to give it a little more character. Anyone have any other ideas for the sides?

What do you think the dimensions of this one are?

Hmmm....maybe

21", 36", 36", 21"
.. or
18", 30", 30", 18"

It's also full overlay, not inset.

Why not have the uppers 24"-30"-24" with glass on all three cabs- (6 doors). Then the support cabs can stay 12" on either side with a solid door. Depending on what other base shelves you'll have, I'd rather have the lower hutch be all drawers.

My guess is that photo has 18-30-30-18.

I know the cabinets to the counter is a nice hutch look, but using it as a baking area pushes functional issues too. It wouldn't be as bad if you used the island as the main rolling, kneading, messy flour area.

Echoing what everyone else has said, those skinny doors would drive me nutz. Cabs to the counter look cool but I don't like them from a functional perspective...knowing myself, I would always have something sitting on the bit of counter in front of the drawer/ door I needed to open. Besides, they're counterspace thieves that are sneaking into our kitchens while we consumed with getting other stuff off the countertops with built-in microwaves, coffee makers, wall hung televisions...

two girls, I can't answer the question about the plates yet because there isn't anything in my cabinets yet. Next week? I'll try to remember to post back. Jaymie

Thanks Jaymie ;)

I think that photo is 18-30-30-18 too. I have 18" less than that space.

Yeah Im torn. Counterspace VS cab's to the counter... The most I would go on the sides would be 15". So 15-24-24-15.

Or I coud do like alexR said. 24-30-24 and 12's under each 24 on the ends. Wonder if that would look off balance...

FWIW, you have a lot going on in your kitchen. You don't have any runs of uppers, so I don't think the hutch being plain is a negative. I think there's plenty of character in the hutch without having uppers come down, especially with interesting corbels. The hutch on your 3-D rendering looks better than the other examples you've posted. The others would look busy and crowded in your kitchen, imo. I would much rather have the open run of counter. Alternatively, if you were going to bring something down to the counter, I would do it all and give up the counter: A 30" on either side of 18" open shelves.

Since it's a baking center, perhaps you could use those narrow cabinets to the counter (even more narrow being a possibility) to hold the baking sheets, pull outs for colors sprinkles, etc. Your kids are short and wouldn't mind getting their everyday stuff from below-counter. For that matter, a pullout might be able to hold some of their stuff--plastics, stuff you don't like bending for. ??

Twogirls, my dinner plates are 11" across and my 13" deep cabinets are about 12" on the interior with a door that sits in front of the box. With a 12" inset, you are going to lose whatever the depth of the back of your cabinet is plus the depth of the door. The door is most likely 3/4" and that doesn't really allow any room for the back without banging the edge of the plates. I wouldn't count on plates going in a 12" deep inset cabinet -- or large bowls or other serving pieces either.

If that is a big problem, you can consider going a little deeper, or consider making your hutch with frameless cabinets and gain back that little bit of extra room. That would also give you more room in any drawers -- above the counter or below. It will still be tight with 12", but it will probably work -- test them on the display floor to make sure. If you need to go to 13", I know that Brookhaven uses 13" uppers as standard. I think there are a couple of others.

BTW, you said you hadn't heard back from the Crown Point KD yet when you started the layout thread. Have you two been in touch again?

lascatx - I think it was erikanh that was dealing with Crown Point, it wasnt me. I already know I cant afford them. I would use a local amish builder for my insets. Maybe I need to ask them about increasing the depth of all my uppers.

histokitch - You make some good points. Maybe I should just leave it open counter.

So if I do corbels, I would want something more craftsman looking, straighter cleaner lines, nothing ornate. Here's a site with some different corbels/brackets, do you think any of these styles would go? And should I put tapered feet on my hutch and/or a valance of some sort along the bottom?

http://www.invitinghome.com/Corbels/OW_Corbels_List1.htm

That's right. You two have been working furiously at the same time.

If you are using a local Amish builder, I'd be looking at their examples for your trim ideas.

I really like the open counter. I know part of my strong feeling about it is your talking about baking there and the idea of working with flour and sugar, but I think histokitch is right -- you have enough going on that the look and feel is better with it open. You also have enough width to have a nice workspace, but if you try to add drawers oon the sides, neither your workspace nor your drawers are going to do as much for you -- you take away from both.

The overall design as shown in your posting above has the cooking area blocked in on the sides, and it does seem to me also that leaving the hutch more open, similar to the drawing, would work very nicely as a complement to that look. Giving the hutch very much its "own" look, as with simple brackets coming down, would also add to a look of being developed over time, a hutch so often being an original fixture kept as a kitchen continues to develop differently around it.

I vote for the open counter too. I agree it will give a cleaner, less busy look to your kitchen which already has lots of visual interest and will be more functional too.

I'm not sure what style this would be, but I think it's simple and beautiful:

{{gwi:1562055}}

lascatx, the Crown Point designer is still on vacation, but an initial estimate she gave me for just my hutch was roughly twice as much as Cabico's. I'm so disappointed because I really love their product, but I'm afraid Crown Point will be way over my budget.

I too am doing a very similar hutch that is inset and had the cabinet maker make sure that there was 13 inches of usable space for the plates.

Another voice for the open design. You will have so much more usable space....I wonderful expanse for your baking!

As to the upper/wall cabinets...if you can and it's in the budget, I would get them 15" deep. Today's plates are often at least 12", sometimes wider and they will not fit in 12" deep cabinets. Additionally, your platters will probably not fit. The platters could go in tray storage (or under the tray storage like I did). This is one thing that I wish I could do over...make all my upper cabinets (except the glass-fronted display) at least 15" deep...maybe even 18" on the sink wall.

Guess I'll definitely be talking to the cabinet co. about the depth of the uppers.

And I am leaving the hutch open. Thank you all for helping me think it through.

erikanh - I like that bracket you posted. Are you just putting sides on yours?

I like that bracket also. Something with simple long lines would be a great way to get the look you want and still keep the couner open.

It is a pretty corbel. I am designing the one for the sides of my 'hearth' area (on each side of the gray cabs by my rangetop) to come right down to the counter, but angled so that it dies out right at that point so that it completely divides the area, physically and visually, but doesn't take up any counter or hang out in my way at counter height. I don't want to have to wipe around it when cleaning the counter.

Praise the Lord, rhome is back! :)

Erika, where did you get that picture? I would like to see more of that kitchen!

twogirls, I think my hutch will have sides, but I'm still deciding about the back.

kelleg, that corbel is from the Crown Point website. They were chosen as the custom cabinet supplier for the kitchen, baths, living room and dining room in the Country Living House of the Year 2005. Link below to lots more yummy pics.

Here is a link that might be useful: Click

Have you seen kitchenenvy's hutch? It might be harder to clean the counter, but at one point you were worried about how the drywall on the closet side and open side would look. Putting sides all the way down will take care of those problems.

twogirls, here's a pic of the hutch my DH built to give you an idea of what smaller inset doors and drawers look like. The upper door openings are 13 1/2" with 16" inside for storage. The middle uppers are 10 1/2" doors and 24" interior space. The base cabinet is 59". The drawers are 13 1/2 " and the middle one is 24". If you want inset be sure to figure in the stiles and rails. Ours are 2".

We find we have plenty of storage but it's just DH and me most of the time. I store the grandkids plastic ware in one of the drawers. Works well and no glass breakage worries. : )

{{!gwi}}

These are the cabs next to the range. They are 16 1/2" and the interior space is 19".
{{!gwi}}

HTH! : )
Diana

Here is a link that might be useful: more kitchen pics

I love that, Diana! Very 'hutchy' looking and without anything on the sides between the uppers and lowers. So cute with the open areas and how the clock is set back. Very creative and unique design. Your kitchen is a masterpiece, especially that 'freestanding' island that has the micro wired in.

Diana! I adore your kitchen!!! So beautifully done. I really like your open space at the top of the cabinets. And the space where the clock is. Very good ideas. And thank you for all the specs. This really helps me visualize. :)

Thanks, twogirls! Happy to help you. I've been in your shoes so I know how much actual specs and visuals help. That and lots of graph paper and sharp pencils. lol!

Thanks, rhome! At first we thought of putting something on the sides to make it look more like a free standing hutch but nixed that idea when we decided to make the upper cabs look like the ones on the range wall. The area where the plates are may get a plate rack - still undecided. Isn't that the way it goes - the little things trip us up and take forever to finalize. : /

Diana