Kitchen layout advise needed!

11 years ago

Hi all! We're building our "forever" house and I was curious if anyone had any critique of our kitchen layout. The tall cabinet to the right is actually a swinging-door pantry that's hidden somewhat. The ceilings are 10 ft. the island is 10 ft., and the window is looking onto a sunroom. I'll attach the main floor layout after this. Thanks for looking and any helpful suggestions are welcome! :)

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HeatherKB6
Original Author
11 years ago
Without island to see cabinets better...
HeatherKB6
Original Author
11 years ago
A close up of the main floor kitchen area...
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I agree with others about a corner cooktop taking up a lot of space, etc. They can also be difficult to install properly. Ask if there is an additional installation fee for the corner cooktop + hood...the hood is probably the most difficult aspect of a corner cooktop. (It it were a range, then both range & hood would be an issue.) Your island is a "barrier" island - that means it's in the path b/w the sink and the refrigerator. At the very least I would do three things: (1) Move the DW to the right of the sink to get it out of the path b/w the sink and the cooktop - it will only take a couple of shin bruises as you go to/from the sink and cooktop for you to rue the day you put it on the left! (2) Move the trash pullout to the left of the sink so it's usable from the Cooking Zone as well. Far more trash & recyclables are generated when prepping and cooking than cleaning up - so place it where it's most useful. (3) If the refrigerator is not built-in, then either widen the doorway next to the refrigerator so the refrigerator doors stick out into the doorway OR put a 12" pantry or utility pullout b/w the doorway and the refrigerator. The doors of non-built-in refrigerators need to stick out past all the surrounding walls, cabinets, and counters to allow the doors to open fully. You need approx 12". [Since you say you cannot move the refrigerator, then widen the doorway.] What is the purpose of the mini-fridge? Does it really belong in the kitchen? If it's for drinks or wine, I'd leave it where it is - out of the path of someone trying to work in the kitchen so someone getting a drink won't be in your way. Prep Zone...Prepping in this kitchen will be problematical. The ideal Prep Zone: Has a water source, Has at least 36" of counterspace (42" is even better) b/w the sink and cooktop/range, and Is near the cooktop/range (next to or, if it's not the cleanup sink, directly across from it) You do not have that anywhere. Most of your counter space is where it will not be particularly useful b/c there's no water - behind the island to the left & right of the cooktop. Note: You should also have 18" to 24" on the non-prep side of the cooktop for emergency landing space (or landing space in general) You would be better off: Moving the cleanup sink to the refrigerator perimeter wall with the DW on the right and the trash on the left Moving the cooktop to the left and out of the corner Then, get rid of the to-the-counter cabinets on both sides to gain needed counterspace. This would give you a water source + counterspace + cooktop with the workflow Refrigerator --> Sink --> prep counter space --> cooktop. It would also give you a nice expanse of uninterrupted counterspace in the island. While there's enough room for a prep sink in the island, I really don't there's enough enough room for a sink that functions as both a cleanup and prep sink - unless you add another couple of feet to the length of the island. Island Seating...How much space is b/w the island and that row of cabinets + counter behind it? You need at least 48" if you don't plan to use that counter much, if you do plan to use it, aim for 60". How deep is the overhang for the seats? You need at least 15" of clear leg/knee space. This means 15" after you account for the decorative door panels on the back and side of the cabinets in the island. Is that island at least 48" deep? That's what you need to have two seats on the side - 24" per seat and no shared leg space with the seat around the corner. Do you have children or plan to have children while still in the house? Then plan for a multi-cook kitchen if you plan to have them help cleanup, prep, or cook. (If you have adult children, will they be bringing their families over and will they be "helping" in the kitchen?) It sounds like looks are more important to you than function - is that the case? It's your kitchen, so if you're a "form over function" person, than we need to know. However, be aware that the vast majority of us are "function over form", so we will be commenting from that perspective. Do you work in the kitchen much? Some people do not...we've even had a couple of people admit that they never cook and that their kitchen is just a "show" kitchen - so don't feel bad if you fall into the rarely cook category! We're all different and we all have different likes/dislikes & priorities. However, I will say this...it is far, far easier to make a functional kitchen look nice than it is to make a nice looking but dysfunctional kitchen more functional. Whatever you decide - good luck!
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"... DW on the left side...if the DW is open, person prepping can't get to fridge and person emptying the DW is standing at sink..." No matter where the DW is, that will be a problem for the Prep Zone in general (the space b/w the sink/water source and range). On the left: An open DW will block the aisle b/w the refrigerator and Prep Zone or range. On the right: An open DW blocks access b/w the sink and the range - even worse! It also forces someone prepping there to step aside and wait while the DW is open. I would rather have the DW on the left so it's not blocking access to Prep Zone and to the sink from the range. In addition, several people here have said they dislike having only 12" b/w the DW and corner for unloading dishes. We had that in our old kitchen and it wasn't an issue - but you might want to think about that. Oh...and that would also mean if the DW is on the right someone emptying the DW will be completely blocking the Prep Zone (not just over the DW), the aisle b/w the sink or refrigerator and range and, possibly, the range itself. One way to solve the problem is to be sure you have at least a 48" aisle b/w the island counter edge and the perimeter counter edge (I don't know what you have in your layout). This way, you'll have room for an open DW w/o blocking anyone's access. A wider aisle will also allow you to have someone working at the island while someone else is working at the sink. CamG - I like your latest layout much better! But, I think I like the stacked cabs in your first layout better....it gives you taller upper cabinets in some cases. Drawers vs ROTS (roll out tray shelves)...check pricing in your cabinet line. In some cabinet lines cabinets with ROTS cost close to the same as drawers - especially when the drawer faces are slabs like yours. One suggestion for saving money on the cabs: For the narrower cabs, don't get drawers (except the top drawer). Instead, get ones with the single shelf - but adjustable. Then, use the bottom of the cabinet for cutting boards, trays, cooling racks, etc. The shelf could then be close to the top for longer platters to be stored front-to-back. Since you don't have an oven stack, you will need that type of storage somewhere and vertical storage for trays, etc. is more useful than trying to store them flat. So, I suggest drawers for the wider cabinets (21" & wider) and "regular" cabinets for the narrower one I see b/w the refrigerator and DW. Corner (base)...I also recommend keeping the corner susan. Look into which is less expensive..."lazy" susan or "super" susan. Either one offers excellent pot & pan storage or small appliance storage. Another advantage of corner susans is that the contents are always right in front of you - spin the shelf until the item you want is in front. It's a simple matter of taking it out. Corner drawers are also nice, but they aren't "standard" and are usually only available with fully custom cabinets. In our old kitchen, we stored all our pots & pans, colanders, and several serving dishes in a lazy susan. I really wanted another one in our new kitchen for small appliance storage, but I was thinking out loud one day about using a "straight" cabinet turned 90 degrees so it faced outside the kitchen and could hold dog food, treats, etc. and my DH heard me - he immediately latched onto the idea and I lost my small appliance storage! (They're in my rather small pantry now, taking up valuable space!) [A "lazy" susan has a center pole and the door is often attached to the shelves so it rotates in when spinning the susan - no doors banging adjacent cabinets. A "super" susan has no center pole, rather, you have two "turntables" sitting on stationary shelves. The door cannot be attached in this case, so you have a door that swings out, but there's no center pole taking up space.] Corner (upper)...consider an "easy reach" cabinet that has a 90-degree angle rather than the diagonal. It will open up that wall. If symmetry is important to you, the easy reach may be an issue....but try it to see. One last thing...is the refrigerator against a wall? If so, is the wall no deeper than the depth of the refrigerator carcass/box? The doors must stick out past obstructions to open fully. If the wall is deeper, you will need filler or a cabinet b/w the wall and refrigerator.
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A prep sink on your island will keep the cook out of the clean-up zone. And that is just as important as keeping the cleaners out of the cooking zone. A MW (not the DW as I first supposed) is fine where you have it. (Although some people don't like it below a counter because they think it is too low. You could try the height if you can mock it up on a chair and use a counter-top model to see how you like it.) That position would allow a "well-trained" (and good luck with that!) household member to snag a snack from the pantry or fridge during the pre-dinner cooking period and walk around the island and approach the MW w/o crossing the action zone. If you primarily use the MW for snacks, not as a routine piece of meal-cooking aparatus) you could even have the MW around the corner from the cooking aisle, further separating the tasks. This would give you useful clear space at your prep counter. You could have a drawer facing the cooking (i.e. at right angles from a rotated MW) aisle below the MW. No rule says you have to all the openings in a corner cab facing the same direction. I use my MW a lot during cooking, so I want it in the cooking zone, though as you have shown it, I want it below counter height. I have mine there now and it's fine. There are also MW drawers that allow access from the top when pulled out. My impression is that they are pricey, but I've never priced one. Mine is just a conventional door model. Remember that pretty much all MWs are hinged on the left as you look at them. The "left of sink DW placement for right-handed people" is something I learned here of GW/KF. I doubted it at first, but after studying video of myself washing dishes, I found it was absolutely correct. You hold the item with your non-dominant while manipulating a scraper or brush with your dominant hand. Both hands are good at simply slotting dishes into DW racks. But if any rearranging of other dishes is needed to make space for the next item, that is usually done with your dominant hand, while the next-in dish is held aloft by the non-dominant one. The point of this is too avoid unnecessary hand-to-hand exchanges (that's where stuff gets dropped) or body twists. Try it yourself and see what I mean. HTH L.
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Your kitchen is looking pretty good - I agree with Alex in terms of replacing the corner diagonal wall cabinets with the easy reach cabinets - the diagonal cabinets are not easy to access and they just look dated in my opinion. I would also suggest that you don't make the corner cabinets taller than the other wall cabinets. Ask your cabinetry supplier to use a base filler with a toe kick next to the DW - the one shown in the drawing doesn't have one. Also ask if they can get a 33 inch wide microwave cabinet versus the 30 inch one shown - I'm assuming they cannot since they used a three inch filler between the microwave cabinet and the refrigerator panel. But it doesn't hurt to ask. Finally, you'll want to pay close attention to how the crown will end on the left side of the refrigerator surround. Does that wall end just like it's shown ?
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User
11 years ago
That dishwasher is going to drive you crazy.

It looks like it will block your access to the sink or be a shin-banger, and if you are trying to cook and load the DW, it's in the path between range and sink.
HeatherKB6
Original Author
11 years ago
I appreciate the feedback! That's what we were afraid of. Do you think it would make more sense to the left of the sink??
marcolo
11 years ago
Really cool secret pantry.

I agree--put the DW where it is on the house plan, to the left of t he sink.

You could also give yourself more secondary prep space by scootching the range just a bit more toward the fridge. Prep happens between sink and range.

Given your space I would also consider a more squared-off island with one seating space at the "bottom" facing the dining room. Single row seating is not conducive to conversation. The curve helps a little, but only a little.

And/or--your layout would benefit from a prep sink on the fridge end of the island. That would make a nice, tight easy-to-work-in cooking zone. Having only one source of water in the kitchen is probably the biggest cause of saying "excuse me" in your own kitchen, even if only one other person is present.

Where is the MW going? It should be near the fridge.

HTH.
HeatherKB6
Original Author
11 years ago
Thank you so much for your thoughts! The MW is in the island as a pull-out draw. It's in the dead space here in the photo. You gave me lots to think about. I think the dishwasher does make more sense to the left. Also, I had never thought about moving the range. I agree with the island too. We're all about having conversation and space there as a family of 6! Thanks again!
marcolo
11 years ago
That view is helpful--I didn't realize you already have seating on the bottom of the island. If you do move the range you might want to move the MW a bit, too, so traffic doesn't cross. Are you using an actual drawer MW?
HeatherKB6
Original Author
11 years ago
I think the plan is to do a drawer MW. I do like th idea of moving the range as you had suggested. What do you think about the varying heighs of cabinets? We're also considering putting in two windows in replacement of where the cabinets next to the hood are. Any thoughts? Thanks again!
likewhatyoudo
11 years ago
The main thing that I see is that the varying heights of the upper cabinets. I would eliminate the upper cabinet over the window and have all the other uppers at the same height as the stacked cabinets it would look less busy and not compete with those awesome beams. Love the house layout.

We have a hidden pantry also, it has all our counter top appliances and we added a granite area to one side for the toaster and coffee maker. We also have the pantry on a light sensor so the lights turn on when you open the door.
andreak100
11 years ago
I'll let the actual layout critique to those who are more knowledgeable than I, but have you considered widening the opening over the sink that is looking into the 4-season room? You could take out the two cabinets that are closest to the sink and open that up more. Although the kitchen is open to the great room, you don't have any actual windows in the kitchen and opening that area up more might be a nice way to add more light into the kitchen. It looks like you will still have plenty of upper cabinets.
HeatherKB6
Original Author
11 years ago
Thank you everyone for your thoughts! I am leaning towards a design that might "quiet down" the cabinets. I think we're definitely going to add two windows flanking the hood too. Thank you for the encouragement and advice. Love hearing all of your thoughts!
deedles
11 years ago
I agree that the up and down of the cabs, esp with the beamed ceiling is busy. Do you have enough drawers? Not sure what I'm looking at in base cabs but it seems some are the standard drawer/door setup and on here it's always suggested to have drawers, drawers and more drawers!
Also second Andreak's suggestion about a bigger window over the sink. It's a big kitchen and the window in there seems kinda lonely and small in the rendering, but I'm not so good at floorplan/renderings, fwiw. What if you ran the window down to the countertop and then stretched it up higher, too. Could even work a pretty piece of stained or leaded glass into it, if you like such things.
marcolo
11 years ago
I like the direction you're heading now. I also think more drawers are a must and a wider sunroom opening would be nice. Going down to the counter makes it feel more like a pass-through. It's important to make sure you have enough quick-reach storage after removing more uppers.
likewhatyoudo
11 years ago
I like Andreak100's idea of larger windows to the sun room! look at kateskouros and slonewby kitchens two kitchens I can think of that have large window above the sink flanked by glass cabinets looks amazing! I thin Andreak100 also has a large window in her kitchen that looks great.

I am sure there are others with the double windows over the sink and It always look spectacular. I wish it had been possible to have that feature in my kitchen.

Good luck you will get lots of good advice on here.
_justin_
11 years ago
My suggestion is to get rid of all of the upper cabinets. Its really important to be able to see corners of the room and not cover all of them with cabinets. Like others have said, more drawers, and some BIG drawers. I have a 30" cabinet with a 6"H drawer on top that I can fit most of my plates and bowls. I have a 36"W cabinet with 9" H and 10.5" H drawers that can hold my common pots and pans. Some open shelves can hold glassware. I do like full height cabinets and also cabinets that go all the way to the counter; they hold a lot more than your uppers so you can get by with fewer cabinets and have more space.
HeatherKB6
Original Author
11 years ago
Thanks all! We're in the midst of redesigning the cabinets, adding more glass ones, bringing the height taller and more even, and adding more windows! Any more thoughts? I appreciate the feedback!

Kitchen layout advise needed!

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Kitchen layout advise needed!

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