I used it on a bathroom floor during the cold months. Left the window open and a fan going. It is bad for 3 days but then goes away over time.

Tung oil is better but can linger far longer. I used it on the inside of a cabinet a year ago and it's still present.

We have both on floors -- the WL is more durable of the two. If you can wait till it's cooler and tolerate it or go away for a few days after the applications, you would probably be very happy with it. I used it on an exterior threshhold and it's held up perfectly.

I have used waterlox on our floors and other wood working projects in our home. Ventilation is key.

I try to do all finish work in the garage (not the floors). keep the garage door open. I dont use a fan because it blows dust around.
Use a respirator. Put on one coat and then leave the area until it dries (overnight). During the summer the solvent dries up quickly.
Yes, the fumes are nasty but the finish is unmatched by other finishes. Especially on exotic woods.

Has anyone used the low- or no-VOC versions of Waterlox? I am about to order Waterlox for my island and pantry tops and i don't know which to choose.

I'll be finishing these pieces in a dedicated varnish room at my husband's work, so they won't be in the house. Still, as a breast cancer survivor I am super concerned about VOCs and always get low-VOC paint, non-formaldehyde cabinets, etc etc.

Does the low- or no-VOC Waterlox PERFORM and LOOK as good???

The guys that did my floor categorized it as "worse than poly". I had to move out of the house for 4 days, mostly because I couldn't walk on the floor, but the vapors were bad. My guys got pretty loopy. I had to keep a couple of windows open and the heating way down -- in a Northeast winter!

(Long story. I asked for tung oil. I thought I was getting tung oil. I came back to waterlox -- a product containing tung oil -- not the same. On my 200 year-old, king's board floors, so I'm not going to have them sand another 1/4 inch off and do it again. Plus it's already flaking, and I think it looks and feels like poly. "Annoyed" doesn't begin to cover it.)

I would determine if waterlox is the product you want first. Many people around here really love it, as they have said, so I know mine is a minority opinion. It may be worth applying it during open-window weather, putting up with residual smell for awhile.

Or there are some other products people have recommended here. Ark something?

I think you must be unusually sensitive to smell, as I am pretty sensitive, and it would not have bothered me outside 2 weeks later. Detectable if one is looking for it, maybe, troublesome, no.

My other question is: How much protection does your wood need, and how much are you willing to do to protect it? This is a cabinet, right? If it's just the two of you, and you're careful, and you wipe up spatters and don't splash a quart of water down the front of the sink every night, tung oil may give you all the protection you need, plus it's repairable.

Sometimes other people assume you want the surface to be bulletproof and that you have 4-year old quadruplets who juggle rottweilers and fingerpaint with plutonium on them and wonder why they don't look brand new. If you're willing to accept that they'll be a little more fragile than that, that's all they want to know -- that you know that, so you won't be disappointed and blame them for not telling you.

(FYI, I have a hand-painted matte paint finish on my cabinets. I'll have to repaint at some point, but by then I'll be ready for a change!)

Good luck!

growlery, your waterlox is peeling? It sounds to me like it was not properly applied, or there was a film that prevented it from soaking into the wood. My waterlox soaked right into the grain of the wood and there is no way it could peel. Also...waterlox is repairable, like tung oil. Mine does not look or feel at all like poly.

I handfinished all of our interior doors, baseboard, casework, cabinet doors and drawer fronts, and island top with Waterlox. I guess I got used to it, and after years of occasionally dealing with the lacquer odor on things DH brought home from the shop, I just never thought it was that bad. (I can detect from almost anywhere in the house when he walks through the door carrying something he recently sprayed with lacquer....but also get used to that in short order.) The doors I did outside in a carport, but as winter approached I had to move indoors...into the house under construction. I opened windows when it was possible, but had to keep the environment warm and dry enough. I had to do a couple of things after we moved in, so we did spend the night in the house with the drying objects. Maybe it's just that I've done plenty of woodworking projects throughout my life and expected it to have an odor?

Tung oil will protect the wood, but you will need to keep it up more and the finishing will take longer than with waterlox. Pure Tung oil takes time to soak in especially on new wood with many coats nessesary and it also take a while to fully cure. But if done properly it should be a very good finish and you can finish with zero VOC. Waterlox has additives to make the soaking and curing process shorter which makes it not zero VOC. The Real milk paint company gives instructions on how to finish with pure tung oil and waterlox web site give lots of info too. I put low VOC waterlox on my floors in December. I sealed off the room, opened windows on both sides and put in fans. I also cranked up the heat to keep the room above 70. The rest of the house was scorching! So I would recommend doing this when the outside temps are 70 or slightly above and humidity is low. If not then the cure times greatly extend. Which may be what happened to you, growlery, if the room temp was below 70 then the waterlox may not have "cured" properly.

The smell was BAD and made me a little loopy while installing in the room, outside smelled but with the room sealed and fans going it wasn't too bad. The smell completely dissipated in a week or so.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pure tung oil finish

I forgot to add I used tung oil on my butcher block. The first two coats where thined with the citrus solvent which is great stuff! Then a couple more coats of straight tung oil which is very thick but with some work spread well. My DD's have spilled all sorts of staining stuff including food coloring on it and the butcher block didn't soak it in. I oil it regularly though.

I can't say I noticed a stong smell. I did the 2nd coat on my bb counter top, and I just did the grommets for the the countertop and the risers on my stairs this past weekend, and while the first day was strong, I didn't think it was excessive. I've done quite a bit of refinishing, though, so I'm used to the smell. The urethane that they put on the wood floors was WAY worse - burned my eyes even after a day and a half, and still smells a little after a week.

Lynne

I didn't read the responses yet, so this may be repeat, but my husband made me wear a professional-level filter and mask when I was using it. You can't smell it that way, don't lose brain cells you can't afford, and forget you're wearing it while you're busy. Mostly.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but to clarify, ccombs:

It was applied by some pretty experienced people who otherwise did a good job. Just not what I wanted. If professionals can't put this stuff down correctly, then how can it be marketed for DIY? But many people do it successfully, so I think that's fair. So I don't think it was a botched job. I just think no product is perfect. I love my soapstone and tell people all the bad stuff about it too.

It is flaking/peeling in places where any furniture or anything heavy has been put down, similar to poly. Little circles and corners all over the floor. Uuurrrrrrr.

It is not repairable in the way the old floors at my mother's are: If you get a scratch or a worn patch, you get out the sandpaper, the steel wool, the can of stain and the wax, and in 20 minutes you can't tell the difference. SO easy! Almost 45 years of heavy use (this is salt/sand dog kid country) at her house and the floors look great and have not been refinished.

Waterlox's idea of "repairable" is to paint another layer of stuff over the scrape. I define that as repeatable or renewable. In my case, that's never going to happen -- I'm never putting more of this stuff down. You can't sand a little patch down and fix that -- from what I understand anyway. If I'm wrong, please correct me!

I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Right now I'm just throwing rugs down everywhere. When it gets bad I may just wax and devil take the hindmost.

Pure tung oil, however, is a real repairable finish, for what it's worth. It's easier to scratch or get water spots on in the first place and NEED repair though. So it's a trade off.

For everyone concerned about the toxicity of any product, you can check something called a Materials Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) on just about every chemical and many products sold. They're available to view online. They can be quite overwhelming to read, so look through a few, including student versions (the Fisher ones are good too), until you find one that makes sense to you. Search "msds online". You may need to search each ingredient individually.

Keep in mind that they are designed for people who may be working with these chemicals for many hours a day on the job for years and require a higher level of protection than a one-time user. So DON'T freak out. But the MSDS tell you what's in it, how dangerous it is, what specifically it could do to you, how to protect yourself, how to dispose of it, etc. Much more details than the can. Interesting reading.

Well, I think I have a plan. Let me know what you think.
The wood I have is 100 year old Wormy Chestnut reclaimed from a church. I have the Real Milk Paint 100% Pure Tung Oil. (used it on my concrete countertops) I'm going to order the Citrus Solvent to dilute it 1/2 and 1/2 for the first three coats. Then I will go full strength for at least two more coats.(this wood really soaks it up) Then once (or twice) a year I will wipe the cabinets down again with 1/2 and 1/2 Tung Oil and Citrus Solvent. Oh, these are kitchen cabinets by the way.
How does that sound? I hate the thought of wrapping this beautiful wood in plastic, but I still want to protect it. Decisions decisions.
Thanks for all the advice!!
S

My experience as a DIYer:

If Waterlox is applied too heavily, too soon after the last coat, or in cold and/or humid conditions, there will be problems. After weeks of great success, I started to have problems with how the surface was leveling, and contacted Waterlox, and we figured out together that I was applying it in a carport and the weather changes were affecting drying time, so I was applying another coat before it was dry enough. I moved inside and continued with great success. I'm no pro, and I didn't have to do anything very technical or difficult. I brushed on the first 2 or 3 coats (thinly) and only sanded between those and the last, hand-rubbed coat. My dh was a bit skeptical about that approach, as he's more detail oriented and finicky (big on plenty of thorough sanding), but he was amazed that my way came out great. As I said, we have a LOT of it on woodwork throughout our house (not floors, though) and it's doing a wonderful job and my very experienced woodworker husband is extremely impressed. With 8 kids and 2 big dogs, and the decision to use Douglas fir, we wanted a tough finish, but one that looked hand-rubbed instead of a layer of finish, and we have it.

We did apply it over some scratches the dog put in the trim alongside our stairs. I sanded very lightly and reapplied on the spot and you can't tell there is any new Waterlox. The scratches made dents in the wood, so those are still there....I wasn't willing to sand down that far into the wood, because that certainly would show...not in the finish itself, but in the overall surface. We plan to renew the finishes on our front door and on our island. We will lightly sand and do a new coat. To me renewable means I don't have to sand down to bare wood, or nearly so, to refresh the finish...and as proven on the stair trim, I can do a little bit if I don't want to do the whole piece. Waterlox says you don't have to sand at all to add more, but if I'm going to do it, I might as well take 5 minutes and run over it with a bit of fine sandpaper first to be sure.

This has been my experience and I'm sorry everyone hasn't had the same. Believe me, I'm not very patient, so if it had given me any real trouble or required a lot of messing around to get it 'just right,' I wouldn't have used it or recommend it. :-)

According to the waterlox web site, the cause of peeling is as follows:

"There is probably wax or another substance on the floor that will not allow the Waterlox to adhere. Strip the wood with ammonia and water first and then sand the floors before applying finish to them."

And yep....waterlox can be touched up. Just lightly sand the spot in question and apply more waterlox to that spot. It will blend right in with the existing waterlox. It is very much like tung oil because it IS tung oil, but with resins and mineral added to make it stand up to traffic and water better than plain tung oil. I can understand how disappointing it must have been to have been expecting a pure tung oil finish and gotten waterlox instead though. It is NOT pure tung oil but I do think it is an excellent product.

When I put mine down, there was a dark hallway that I didn't realize I made a thick puddle. I didn't discover it until the next day. What a thick, gooey mess! But I called the guy at Paint Source and he told me how to fix it. It was actually quite easy....I just had to soften it with mineral spirits to get the thick parts off, then re-coat. It is just amazing that you can't even tell that I had to do a major repair to that spot. It all blended in perfectly!

We have 4 coats of tung oil on our ash floors -- whole first floor. 4 years later it's great BUT I have a European wax over it and it dries out in small spots and you can tell it will need to be redone in about 2 years. The wax, called SOFFIX helps a lot (it can be purchased online but I found it at the hardware store). It is a wonderful smelling liquid and goes down undiluted first, then you clean with it half-diluted. You don't get wax buildup as it's very thin but everything in the kitchen, all the spills wipe up. The Germans seem to love surfectent.

Otherwise, they say you might need to re-oil every two years, which I think is huge upkeep. So I went with the wax.

However, when we redo, I'm going with WL. I used it on our antique chestnut oak floor in the powder room. That was first done with tung oil and no wax but it dried out. Wood was older and had been in a barn. It is far more beautiful with the WL than it was before.

growlery -- I must agree with ccombs. Also, I was told that much less sanding was required for oil or WL -- one benefit.

For the tung oil we had fans going in here round the clock for 2-3 days between the coats and we had 4 coats. Someone got impatient and walked on the floors barefoot and there are permanent footprints that can be seen in a certain light.

It doesn't happen quickly with the oil either and there are VOCs. So by all means, if possible, I wouldn't plan to be there -- you can't really be in those rooms at all till it dries down.

Don't forget to plan for the proper disposal of the applicators and drying cloths which can be flammable.

silverraven, I think that's a great plan! Your kitchen cabinets won't see the traffic a floor would nor is it likely to see standing water, well maybe under the sink and there is a leak. To me an oil finish on cabinets is prettier too.

growlery, if you like to try and fix the peeling you might want to contact waterlox to see if they have a solution for you. This is what I did: DH slid my china cabinet without pads on the bottom and put a healthy scratch in the floor. I was not happy, but I fixed it by rubbing the scratch with a mineral spirits dampened cloth and reapplying a little waterlox to it. The smaller sratches I use only the mineral spirits cloth.

I used classic Waterlox on a few of my floors (vintage fir and pine), but the solvent smell was so gawdawful and penetrating that my carpenter & plumber begged me to use something else. This was in March, neither too hot nor too cold, with plenty of ventilation. Since the pine floors were not responding as well -- they were splintery and the waterlox seemed to just make them rougher -- I went with a topcoat of poly. The poly smelled downright beneficial in comparison.

FYI I switched to the low-VOC formula midway through, but this smelled, if anything, even worse. (This was confirmed by the Waterlox folks when I contacted them.) Go for it for health reasons, but I wouldn't select it on the basis of less odor.

It is NOT a natural, organic product, whatever the marketing. This doesn't make it bad by any means, but one has to know what one is buying. It's a varnish with boiled tung oil that is different from using the pure oil itself.

I consider Waterlox optimal as a protective subcoating that will bring out the grain and depth of floors, or as a furniture finish, but the vapors from the first two rooms proved too much for us to use in the rest of the house.

Your experience, as always, may vary.

Why subject yourself to dangerous chemicals when these days there are so many other options?

I'm using a finish on our cabinets that a local high end custom furniture company is using. It has a strong smell of oranges the first day it's applied. The second day it is slightly orange smelling. Third day just pleasant.

It's called Landark -- Natural Wood Finish, the link is below. It contains tung and linseed oils, beeswax, oil from orange peels (as a solvent), and pine rosin.

We will do a paste wax coat after three coats of the Landark oil, as recommended by our custom cabinet maker.

Here is a link that might be useful: LandArk

great info and link fern. Good to have another option.

silverraven -- hope you'll show us pix of whatever you do.

Ok, I'm intrigued. I wonder what pine rosin would do to wood color?(compared to straight tung oil) And durability? Can you go in and add more when ever you need to, to repair? Or do you have to strip the wax?
fern4- Are you using this on kitchen cabinets?
Hmmmmm, very interesting. This is why I love this site, everyone has such different ideas!

S

Our cabinets were finished while it was still too cold to have windows open, and I was pregnant, too. I searched for something that would be durable, not plastic looking, and low VOC, and ended up using General Finishes Pre Cat Urethane. Some of the cabinets did need to get finished in place, and the smell of the General Finish product was barely noticeable (even to my over sensitive pregnant nose) and fairly pleasant. My brother-in-law (a professional painter) who finished our cabinets was quite impressed with the product and really appreciated that it was low VOC.

The finish we used on our floor is even cooler: Rubio Monocoat-Zero VOC, ONE coat, and easily touched up when needed. We didn't even need to leave our house.

This is going to sound crazy, but the General Finishes actually made the wood a different color than the Waterlox or straight Tung Oil. It just didn't bring out the grain and worm holes like the Tung based ones did. But yes, I agree, it doesn't stink. If it had of been as pretty, I would have used it.
S

The makes sense, siverraven. Are you staining your wood? What kind of wood are you using? We stained ours first, since we wanted the cabinets darker. The GF didn't do anything looks-wise for quartersawn white oak, without a stain. It looked really bland.

silverraven,
My dad built my cabinets and then I finished them. I wanted to minimize odors and residual chemicals, so I used General Finishes waterbased urethane on the insides and drawer boxes, and Waterlox only on the doors/drawers (mahogany). It worked out really well. It *was* extremely stinky for a while, but dissipated quickly. I think if I had used the waterlox on the interiors, I'd still be smelling chemicals in all my foods :(. The waterbased GF does give the wood a different look than the oil based, but this was a positive attribute: the mahogany benefitted from how beautifully the waterlox brings out the grain and depth of color, and the interior poplar ply remained light and bright (not yellowed by oil finish).

fern4: We'll be using Land Ark on our hardwood floors (if we ever get the time to do them...). There's another GW'er who used it on her floors. It's the product growlery is talking about. We've done some test pieces and I just love the finish.

We did the boxes out of birch cabinet grade plywood. We finished them with polycrylic. They are nice and bright, can't wait to actually use them. We got 100 year old Wormy Chestnut reclaimed out of a church. So we are stripping what finish remains on the boards. We don't want to stain them, they are so beautiful with just Tung Oil. I only worry about durability. But since I will be wiping my concrete counters with Tung Oil once a year, it shouldn't be too much trouble to wipe the doors/drawer fronts down too. Right??
I wonder if Land Ark sends out samples, since it is also a tung oil finish I would love to try it. I may call them Monday to ask. I know Waterlox did.
Oh, decisions decisions!! I just don't want to mess up, they don't make this wood any more!
S

Yes, Land Ark does do samples. We dealt with the West Coast (Oregon) branch and the couple who run it were very, very helpful.

I can't wait to see pictures-they sound like they will be beautiful cabinets!

Waterlox is really just a wiping varnish. You can make your own wiping varnish simply by thinning any oil based varnish w/ paint thinner & wiping it on with a rag or brushing it on & removing the excess. It is much easier to use than plain varnish & is a lovely, reasonably natural finish. I used it years ago on a primitive pine box originally used to store chicken feed that we use to store firewood. The upside is that it's easy to use; downside is that's it's a little plasticky looking, IMO, not super easy to repair blemishes, & tends to sit more on the surface & not penetrate to the degree that a true oil finish does.

In the past few years, I've started using pure tung oil, not to be confused with tung oil finish. Switched to it because I needed superior water resistance on some wooden single pane windows I was trying to get a few more years service out of. I've been very pleased with the results. The windows have been thru three Wisconsin winters where the windows grow ice on the interior due to condensation, melt, refreeze.... The wood still looks great with no signs of the finish failing & with no addt'l maintenance.

Since then, I have used tung oil on the new wood windows & wood doors that we have installed in other parts of the house. I thin the first two-three coats of tung oil with paint thinner or citrus solvent, depending on the season. If I can open the house up, I use paint thinner because it's cheaper & I have a ton of it collected at bargain prices from garage sales. But, I must say that working with the citrus solvent is a joy because it smells wonderful. I only wish the smell would linger longer. Lots of upside, downside is that it's slow going. At most, & that's pushing it, one coat a day. I like to give it a day & a half between coats. Knock any nubbies down with fine steel wool between coats. (One of these days, I'll switch to Scotch Brite pads when I've exhausted my steel wool supply.)

Anyway, long story short, I've started (finally!) building cabinets for my new kitchen. I'm using a water-based poly for the interior of the cabs. I don't have any prior experience with it but am loving that I can get three coats on in one day. But the exterior will be finished with tung oil.

All of that said, I don't have any experience with 'Waterlox.' It seems pretty pricey for being a thinned out varnish--the reason I've never tried it. That, & I'll have to order it because I've never seen it any stores I've been in. But, one of these days, I'll get around to ordering a pint or a quart & subject it to a test. (Right now, tung oil is being tested on the redwood gas grill side table extension thingees.)

A couple of other notes: I've read that you should not use tung oil if anyone in the home has peanut allergies.

AND: Be aware of the dangers of spontaneous combustion associated with oily rags from using any oil-based finishes. The rags can combust very quickly (happened to friends of ours who dropped oily stain rags into the trash can). I've alway been careful with them but doubly so since our friends experience. I either toss them outdoors in the firepit after hanging them to dry or hang them to dry over the grate in the fireplace.)

Here is a link that might be useful: Oil Finishes article by Bob Flexner

Just a quick response. I'm not sure what the pine rosin does to wood color but I think it's there for hardness and durability. We are using the Landark on our kitchen cabinets.

We're not at the paste wax stage but we'll apply that with a bit of a beeswax/orange oil mixture (Howard Feed 'N Wax) to make it easier to get it on. Then, in future we will just use the Howard Feed 'N Wax if we need to freshen up the cabinets. This is what we do to our dining room table now, which was made by a custom furniture shop and we're just following their instructions. So, no need to strip the paste wax to freshen things up because it just all blends together.

The only reason to go back and reapply the Landark (or a similar underlying oil) would be to make repairs, say to a scratch, but you don't have to strip anything to do that, but you have to sand out the scratch obviously.

We used Rubio Monocoat on our floors -- inspired by timber.j -- and although it's only been three weeks I can say that we're pleased. This product bonds with the wood fibers so it can only take the one coat. NO VOCs at all, little odor, very quick and easy to apply, and we can fix anything in the future ourselves where we need it as it will only bond with any exposed wood fibers. The dealer in Georgia is very helpful, they have tons of colors, and they send samples.

Now all we have to do is decide which of these products we'll use on our woodwork. We're using TimberPro interior urethane elsewhere in our house and we're happy with that too. Low VOCs, almost no smell, durable -- see link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Timber Pro interior urethane

Waterloc is one of the finest and most durable finishes that can be used on wood. We build a lot of wood countertops and seal with only Waterloc. We also mix stain with Waterloc to change the colors. As far as the smell we take all the necessary precautions as we do with any finishing. Personally there are other finishes that smell worse to me than Waterloc.
A standard we use is 5 coats on the bottom and 5 coats on the top. Poly is not used in my shop. Just be safe and follow all the manufacturer's guidelines. We also apply thin coats and build our finish and the smell doesn't seem to be as bad.

bruc, maybe that is why I was not all that offended by the smell, though I was applying it to all my cabinets while they sat in the house! I used 8-9 very thin rubbed-in coats.

Thought I would chime in.

If you ventilate well during the finishing process, the "stink" factor should not really be a problem. The only toxic part of the Waterlox equation is the solvent, (mineral spirits/paint thinner), that our products are based in. That solvent, with proper ventilation, should dissipate within the first 2-3 hours and then if there is any residual odor it is from the Tung oil itself which comes from the nut of the Tung tree and is therefore a vegetable oil and non toxic.

Waterlox finishes react and cure with oxygen. The aid of fans and open doors and windows is strongly recommended to not only ventilate, but to exchange the oxygen in the room. Proper ventilation and air circulation must be provided when using any wood finishing materials. It is not recommended that any solvents or solvent-based materials be used in an enclosed area. Read directions on the label carefully before using. Lingering solvent odor indicates either inadequate ventilation or high humidity, which causes slower drying time.

No matter which product you use, the repair/recoat/restoration is the same. One of the biggest assets with a Waterlox coating is that there is no need to sand or abrade the old coats in order to "recoat" the floor. You only need to clean the floor to remove any dirt/dust/grease etc and then apply a new coat.

If there is a deep abrasion or scratch in the floor some sanding may be required. After sanding and tacking you can apply 2-3 layers of Waterlox Sealer/Finish to the scratch using a q-tip to build the finish and then apply a final coat of your desired gloss level, feathering the new finish into the existing finish.

Raw Tung Oil and Danish Oil: Waterlox Original Tung Oil Finishes are not drying oils; they are fully cooked varnishes, which dry quicker and form permanent films tough enough to walk on and take daily abuse. Waterlox Tung Oil Finishes are also waterproof and chemical resistant (alcohol and alkali), while raw tung oil,Danish oil and linseed oil will water spot.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Chip Schaffner - Waterlox

I have a simple question... I applied Waterlox to some walnut doors. WHEN will the odor go away? It's been over three days and the doors are still quite pungent. I know it may take time, but HOW MUCH time is typical? Any insight is appreciated! Thanks.