The sink - range elevation does not work well for me: it seems kind of visually busy.

From left to right looking at it, angled cabinet, narrow cabinet, space, chimney hood, space, cabinet, space, window, space, cabinet. I would try to simplify this somehow, its a lot going on, imo.

When you open your dishwasher, it is near impossible to be near your sink. I'd work that out first.

Maybe you could mark the drawing up to match your current plan, rather than making us scroll between the picture and the description of the changes.

Really, no one can tell you whether your stuff will fit in this kitchen. You can measure how many shelf-feet you're using now. You can also mentally walk through a scenario in your new kitchen -- "I'm making pancakes -- where is the flour, the milk, the griddle..." and see whether the storage makes sense.

Leaving space by the garage door to add a pantry later if you need it sounds like you have a good fallback plan, if things do not work out.

I'm wondering why you're getting rid of so much storage. You seem to need more, based on your comments. As to eliminating the cabinets on the right wall...I would agree if you only had a couple of feet on that wall, but you have over 4.5' on that wall (the wall is over 6.5'). You will be losing quite a bit of storage, IMHO. If it's b/c of the "alley" feeling the tall cabinet gave you, I think switching to upper/base cabinets will eliminate that. It will also give you quite a bit more counterspace.

If you're concerned about the storage on a susan in that corner, then know that susans offer nice storage for pots & pans and small appliances. Pots & pans also work in drawers, but small appliances, not so well. (A nice thing about susans is that whatever is stored on them is always "front & center" for access.)

The only positive I see at eliminating the wall of cabs on the right wall is that you could move the range farther over to the right, giving you more space b/w the sink & range. But, given that the DW is on the other side of the sink, I don't know if you necessarily need it...you have a little over 36".

I think enlarging the window is a great idea...are you going to have the window come down to the counter? [See the thread linked below, especially MamaDadaPaige's & ErikaNH's windows.]

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OK, I just read your last thread (Is my floor plan too congested). If you're using BmorePanic's ideas of (1) moving the range to the right (towards the Laundry Room) and (2) adding "b/w the studs storage" then I think you'll be OK for storage.

Why, though, are you eliminating the pantry?

Is this what you were thinking of?

BTW...make the cabinet that faces the DR at least 27" wide. You will need some filler at the corner (on both sides) to allow the doors/drawers to open & clear the handles on each side as well as allow the doors to open fully against the cabinets around the corner, so why not use a 27" cabinet...the "extra" 3" acts as the filler needed and is still storage. I.e., no wasted space! That's what we did and it worked out well. (In retrospect, we should have done a 30" cabinet facing out b/c the handle of the WD at that corner sticks out so far that we had to add another couple inches of filler to clear that handle!)

Sink:

(1) Is there a reason for the 42" sink base? How about a 39" sink base? The doors could be the same size as doors for a 36" cabinet with the door on the corner side set 3" toward the center. This is another way to make the 3" of filler you'll need at the corner more useful. (I hope this makes sense!)

(2) Is the sink going to be a double-bowl? Single-bowl? Farm/apron sink? I'm asking b/c that may be what's dictating the size of the sink base.

[30" p&p is 30" pot & pan]

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread: counter height...

Forgot the second one!

This one gives you more space b/w the sink & DW. (The DW will need support on the end.)

Thank you all - again. I have most of my other decisions made once I get a floor plan set. I'll move the DW to the end of the peninsula. Don't know why I didn't notice this earlier. Oh yea, I know why, my brain is fried with this planning. :) The reason I was thinking about eliminating the pantry is because it goes partway into my dining room which is quite small. (Although the pantry is only 18" deep) I didn't want to feel crowded. Plus I do like some wall space for art, etc. If I was to have one pantry I think I'd prefer it in the corner by my garage door. You all are helping me get closer to decisions believe it or not. Appreciate you all so much. Paula

Now that you've eliminated the wall oven/MW stack, your layout is looking more and more like mine, although your fridge wall is shifted down from mine. I will post mine anyway and see if you learn anything from it.

We have our range on your laundry room wall (we also have an OTR MW, but I would do a hood if at all possible, and it seems possible for you) and our dishwasher on the wall with the sink, right next to the sink. Our trash and DW are swapped from where you have them. I wanted symmetry on the wall with the range, but since the wall isn't that long, this resulted in skinny cabinets on that wall, which aren't as useful as wider cabinets. It also means that we don't have as much room on one side of the range as we would like (there's about 12 or 13 inches of counter top). Despite the skinny cabs and skinny counter top, we are really happy with how functional our layout is. Of course, our kitchen was AWFUL before (but similar layout), so we are just thrilled with all of the storage, drawers, and the new appliances and all that!

I also wanted to say that we only have 37 inches between the end of the peninsula and the cabs on the fridge wall, and I wish it were larger. This is the one thing I feel I messed up with this kitchen. I think you will be happy with 42 inches.

Here are our plans and a few pictures (I haven't gotten around to taking finished kitchen pics yet):
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Range wall:
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Sink wall:
{{!gwi}}

Peninsula (trash is on the end):
{{!gwi}}

Fridge wall:
{{!gwi}}

I forgot to mention on an earlier post that I was planning on having two same sized sinks, but I notice that many people go with the larger one and a smaller one. I think I'm ok with that as well. Stainless with laminate (under mount)

Thank you pudgybaby for sharing pics of your beautiful kitchen. Since our floor plans are so similar it really helps me vision what mine will look like. Our color theme is similar too and the window over the peninsula/sink is good to see as I will be doing that as well. Even my phone is going to go where yours is:) I was wondering how to do the back splash on the other side of the window and I see how yours is done. I believe mine will be similar as it will end inside the peninsula side.

I'm back. This is the latest floor plan. It's very functional IMO but I think it should "look good" as well. Does it look pleasing to the eye. As my previous post showed I was going to get rid of more cabinets, but got nervous about that since I was increasing the window. Does anything stand out as looking strange. I need to order my cabs in 2 weeks. Thank you again!

From a stylistic standpoint I would consider a couple of things.

1)No diagonal cabinet on the upper, just have the upper cabinets turn the corner.

2)Consider a conventional range hood with a cabinet above it to continue the line of cabinetry all the way across. I think the cabinet/chimney hood/cabinet/window sequence is a bit broken up.

3)Put a full depth cabinet over the fridge and finish the side with a panel. I am also not sure why the pantry on the opposite end is not full depth. I would consider making it 24" instead of 18"(?). Right now that whole run kind of "slants" because the refrigerator is probably close to 33" deep,(unless its a 27" counterdepth) the counter run is 24" deep and the pantry is 18".

Even with a counterdepth fridge the run is 1/3 deeper at one end of the kitchen than the other.

Hi Palimpsest - I agree on the corner cab, my KD hesitates to do it saying that it won't be as convenient to get things out of. Maybe that's true but I don't like the LOOK of the corner slanted cab. I'm going to have her change it. I suppose just having the upper turn the corner will allow me to have a bigger upper on the left side of the oven hood which means I can get rid of that small one which I don't like any way. And it would look more balanced. And I'm good with no hood and cabs above. Thank you!

In respect to the pantry that is only 18 inches deep - The pantry juts into my dining room sitting area.( Which is 12 feet long from patio door to entry door to the LR, and 9.5 feet wide-wall to peninsula. When I host large gatherings the person that sits in the end chair will bump into the pantry -not leaving any room for through traffic. By narrowing that area the problem goes away. Granted we only have large gatherings a few times a year, but it's irritating and dysfunctional when we do. I could shrink the width of the cabinet to 18 inches (instead of 36) and bring it out to counter depth. Would it look better that way?

By doing this I would lose storage, but I would have about 24 inches of free wall to allow for the last chair, plus could put some art work there, or between the stud storage?

BTW-for the pantry I am going to change it to an upper and three drawers that will sit on counter for a phone area, and a rollout or drawers beneath. I am also getting rid of at least two of the glass fronts, as they are too limiting.

See if the manufacturer you are using makes an upper piecut cabinet, that way even though the cabinet turns the corner you will have full access. They may not, or the limited size options might not work in your plan.

I think in order for an upper that sits over three drawers to function as a phone spot you may have to go to 24"Wide and Deep because an upper 12"D over a lower 18"D only gives you 6 inches of space. Also the door opening will mean removing everything on the counter open it if the doors sit on the counter. Have you looked at an upper over an appliance garage with a tambour door sitting on the counter? That way it could work for phones but could be closed up sometimes.

Other than that using the 18 depth makes sense because of the chair issue, I wondered if something like that was the case.

I have considered an appliance garage - with the tambour door. I have scanned a pic of the drawer set up I was thinking about also. The phone could sit on my wide counter top section in the middle. Phone book, tape, address books, stapler, note pads would fit in the drawers. Right now our counter top in that area is a junk collecting area and I thought these drawers could solve some of the problem, and it's outside the kitchen working area, so I wouldn't want to store canned goods, food, etc. I'm with you on the different depths looking sort of strange.

Palimpsest did not suggest "no hood"...he suggested one that's not a chimney style. Instead, have a hood that also has cabinets above it.

Yes, buehl, thank you as I didn't make myself clear. When I said no hood I meant the hood that was referred to in my plan. I do realize that I need a hood above a range! And I do think it will look much better with a small (conventional) hood and cabs above. Thank you for your input.

Ok - I'm getting close to a final floor plan. I have been so stressed and panicky over this kitchen. I could NEVER build a house! Of course the kitchen is one of the most expensive and important rooms in the house!

I removed one super susan (the one near the DR) to make more room for the prep area and added a door to open in the DR instead. I moved the DW to the end of the peninsula. Taking out the susan also allowed wider drawers in the peninsula, which was more important to me than the susan.

I also removed the angled cupboard in the corner that looked odd and changed the hood from a chimney hood to a conventional hood.

I shortened the pantry on the left side of the West wall to allow more room for a person sitting at the end of the DR table. The leaves some wall space left over for some art or something. My KD is seeing if she can bring the drawer and cabinet out another 3" to make it 18" deep instead of 15" She wasn't sure and had to check on it.

re: West wall- I put some drawers there to hold phone books, address book, pens, scissors as we don't have room for a desk. By enlarging the window I have to be a little creative for my dish ware, which I will store on the West wall. I can unload the dishes from the DW. I'll leave glasses and coffee cups by the sink cupboard. Hope this isn't too spread out for unloading the DW. My trash cupboard is also right in the prep area, but it will have to stay. The MW and the trash cabinet have traveled a lot in this planning. My husband said he will need a GPS to get around!

The combo oven will have a drop off point at the counter by the laundry room. Cook top will have either roll outs or two drawers beneath.

I finally feel like the kitchen is as functional as possible, however, feel free to add your advice. I still feel like I'm missing some personal touches but I guess those will come in accessorizing.

Re: the window. I am going to try and have the window all the way down to the counter, depending on electrical outlet codes.

I really like the glass front doors, but I wonder how a cereal box will look like in there. May be changing that...

Thank you all!

I still have about 6 days before I am going to order the cabs and appliances. Thank you all for your ideas/input.

One thing...that cabinet that faces the DR...make it at least 24" wide, preferably 25" or 26"...it looks like it's 19"?

You will need filler on the peninsula to ensure the drawers on the kitchen side of the peninsula will clear the handles on the sink cabinet. Also keep in mind that the doors & drawers stick out another 1/2" to 3/4" past the cabinet boxes. So, since you need filler, why not make it functional? If you cannot do 25" or 26", I suggest 27". Is there a reason your KD didn't suggest this????

BTW...You will also need filler on the wall run to ensure the sink cabinet door on the peninsula side will be able to open fully w/o being rammed into the drawer pulls on the drawers on the peninsula.

Drawers vs Roll Out Tray Shelves (ROTS) under your cooktop...drawers all the way! Much more functional than ROTS! As a matter of fact, you seem to have a lot of ROTS...I highly recommend switching most, if not all, to drawers. I have only one ROTS cabinet (the rest are drawers or pullouts attached to the door) and it's the only cabinet I regret getting (it was a mistake...).

Ditto that base cabinet that appears to have stationary shelves. Stationary shelves are not easy to access, especially the bottom shelves. You have to practically get down & your hands & knees to access them.

Oh, and be sure all your drawers (and ROTS if you stick with them) are full-extension. For drawers, soft-close is also nice, but not a necessity. I do not recommend soft-close for ROTS b/c you have to wait for them to close fully b/f you can close the doors.

The only time I would go w/stationary shelves is if the cabinet and shelves are shallow...like 15" deep. Then, you lose too much space to the drawer/ROTS hardware and the drawer/ROTS boxes. Besides, when they're that shallow, you really don't need drawers or ROTS to access items.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread: Drawers over pull outs in Cabinets

Thank you again beull. So do I have this straight. By adding filler between my wall and peninsula I will get a larger DR facing cupboard and prevent the doors from hitting each other? I can lose some space in my DR but I can't add to my peninsula so will I have to shorten my drawer? Ditto on the ROTS. I've put some masking tape down on the floor and that corner still feels tight so fill would help that too. I was never good at math or geometry. With those changes would you change anything else?

When you have appliances or cabinets that meet in a corner (i.e., no corner susan to act as filler), you have to use filler on each side of the corner to ensure doors/drawers clear each other when opening.

Doors & drawer fronts extend approx 1" past the drawer box, so you need 1" filler for that.

Then, you need to factor in knobs & drawer pulls. They extend an inch or two further (mine are 1.5"). So now you're up to 2.5" or so of filler needed.

[If you have an appliance like a DW next to the corner, then you need to know the depth of the door + handle. For example, my DW handle + door is approx 3.25" deeper than the cabinets next to it. So, if my DW were in the corner, I would need to have at least 3.25" of filler on the other corner side for my top drawer to open.]

First, though, what type of cabinets will you have? That will also dictate how much filler you will need. Full overlay and frameless will need the most, partial overlay and inset will need the least. Some will be needed for both, but the amount needed will vary. The reason inset & partial overlay need less is b/c both types have doors/drawer fronts that are significantly narrower than the cabinet; so the exposed frame acts as filler. Talk to your KD about exactly how much you need...if s/he doesn't know...then I'd worry...

• Assuming full overlay and your measurements are:

  • Doors and drawer fronts are 1" thick

  • Drawer pulls and door knobs (on the sink cabinet) are 1.5" deep

• For full overlay and frameless, each side will need:

  • Wall/sink side: A minimum of 2.5" of filler to clear the drawers + drawer pulls on the drawer base around the corner. This will allow you to open your sink base approx 90 degrees and, btw, will probably result in your door constantly hitting those drawers.

    To open the door wider, you'll need at least 3" of filler b/w the sink cabinet & the corner.

    If your door knob happens to hit the same space as the one of the drawer pulls, you may have to add another 1.5" of filler...for 4.5" total.

• On the peninsula side: You will need a minimum of 2.5" of filler to clear the door + door knob on the sink base cabinet around the corner.

  So now, you need at least 2.5" of filler b/w the corner & the drawer base to allow the middle drawer of the drawer base on the peninsula to just barely clear the sink base cabinet door + handle.

In each case, I recommend adding another 1/2" filler to account for unevenness as well as give your drawers/door some "wiggle room" to be sure they all clear each other. So, that means...

• On the sink side...3.5" of filler b/w the sink base cabinet and the back of the cabinet that faces the peninsula.
• On the peninsula side...3" of filler b/w the corner where the runs meet and the drawer base on the peninsula.

While there's not much you can do about the filler b/w the sink base and the peninsula (unless you use an open cabinet), you can utilize the 3" of filler space needed b/w the drawer...

Hi Buehl - Right now I have a 6" cabinet to the right of my sink (and a lazy Susan-which I'm getting rid of) I didn't think I wanted to keep it - but I could have her add it back in and use it as a pull out dish towel rack and a place for paper towel storage. This cabinet always looked a little strange - I'm sure they were using it as filler way back when. The part that looks strange is because it has this little 6 inch drawer on top. I'll see if I can just ge t a pullout (no drawer included) That would solve the filler issue on that side. Then I would just have to make sure I get enough filler on the peninsula side - wow thanks, this is the only detail I have left before I order. Appreciate your input so much.

Actually, a pullout would not solve the filler issue. If it has a door or drawer, then you still have to have filler b/w it and the corner to allow the door and/or drawer to clear the drawers on the peninsula...just like the sink cabinet. The only type of cabinet that would work there is an open cabinet with either no shelves or only stationary shelves. If you have room for 6", perhaps you could get an open cabinet for cutting boards or something...but request no face frame and that the ends of the walls be finished b/c they'll be very visible.

Yea anything with knob would be a problem. I do remember my KD talking about a line up of 6 cubby holes that baskets would fit in. The baskets could hold medicines, candles or other small things. At the time I didn't think it was practical, but maybe it's not a bad idea after all. thanks again buehl