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Shameless theft of idea from KitchenSync.

Here is a link that might be useful:

No expert here, but if you generally like your 2nd layout, if you moved the fridge across the aisle and at the end of that counter run, someone from the dining room could access without coming into the kitchen; then move the stove to where the fridge is presently, which would allow you to keep your cooking area totally separate from your dining area and allow you a long run of countertop to the right of the sink to use as work/prep space and "buffet" when needed for dining.

Sorry to not be clear. The first one is the kitchen as it is today. The second is an initial shot at a new plan. Oh yes the lower wall goes up to ~12 ft vault apex.

Not going square is interesting

Here's another cut but the dishwasher placement is problematic.

here are some shots of the kitchen when we moved in

http://s474.photobucket.com/albums/rr101/bnolsen/kitchen/

Here is a link that might be useful: kitchen gallery

Get rid of the corner on the right, put the DW next to the sink and I think that could be nice. IÂd probably skip a full pantry to get a drop spot next to the fridge though.

How big of a sink do you plan on getting? That one looks huge and you could gain some space next to the DW for dish storage if you went a bit smaller. Actually, according to my rough calculations you could have a 36" corner cabinet, 36" sink, 24" DW and still have more than 36" for base cabinets.

I donÂt usually care for angled corners but I think in your case, it would enhance the natural prep area between the sink and range.

I'm thinking along the same lines as farmhousebound, it would be nice if the fridge were convenient to the people just coming in to the kitchen to get something out of it. I like your 2nd 1st plan except for the location of the stove top/range. If you stand there to cook, you'll always be blocking the door, and as logical as it is to tell family to go around, they usually try to squeeze by anyway.

Same with the fridge with the door opening into the kitchen door space. Every time you open the door, you are blocking the door & if you want to get something out of the fridge and go out that door, it requires getting the object out, shutting the fridge door with your elbow, sloshing whatever is in the pan you are holding, etc, etc. And how I know this is that is how my fridge is now. Much better if your appliances have some room in front of them for you & others to move around.

I think this might be a little more workable, or you could switch out the location of the fridge & stove. But I think you'll be happier with a plan with your DW next to your sink. This plan has a nice work triangle too.

This is along the lines I was thinking but I donÂt know the exact window and stair/south doorway locations. ThatÂs not a great spot for the trash to prep in the corner though so under the sink would be better. If you went to a smaller sink base, you could have a larger drawer stack there instead or you could add to the dish storage.

I donÂt see too much of a conflict with the range and traffic (depending on how deep the stairs are) and the fridge location keeps people out of your way but handy to the sink and range.

If you don't have a pantry anywhere else outside of the kitchen proper, you're going to need SOMETHING in the kitchen. I would forego the refrigerator drop spot in favor of a pantry (but then ours is always stuffed to the gills, so my bias is always in favor of pantry storage).

It can still function as pantry but also as an unloading spot for groceries, adding milk to a bowl of cereal or Vodka to a glass of orange juice. :D

Another option is to swap it with the dish/glass/silverware storage area and have a full sized pantry next to the DW. That would be less convenient to unload the DW but I donÂt think horrible. Though, you would have to cross back and forth more for a bowl, cereal, milk, oops someoneÂs unloading the DW, IÂll set this stuff next to the range for a sec. Now, what was I doing? It may be just me that needs really defined spaces or IÂll get lost in my own kitchen though. LOL

What I like about either of those options is someone coming in for a drink or a snack from either door doesnÂt need to get in the cook or clean up personÂs way.

These are some pretty good ideas.

Is it considered a bad thing to have the side of the refrigerator exposed next to an entry (like backinthesaddle's plan).

I guess I don't have much choice here. Just need more space!

That wall on the whole right side is artificial, I plan on removing some if not possibly all of it. It would be nice to have an open workspace but I think I can go with 30" deep counters all over.

I have a black free standing convection oven which is only 24" deep. That's not going to look strange with a 30" deep counter?

I like your plan too backinthesaddle. It keeps the sink under the window which I think is a plus.

I don't think it's bad to have the side of the fridge exposed next to an entry. If seeing the wiring & plumbing from the side bothers you, you can have the side of the upper cabinet extend to the floor.

If the stove is 24" deep in 30" counter, can you fill in behind it with countertop?

I'd like to have this serving counter. It will sit on top of the current wall (after its cut down) with room for 36" base cabinets below.

The pantry will lose ~5" per side because of the framing ?

Interesting kitchen layout and decor!

Some initial questions....

• It looks like you may have children (refrigerator decor)...how many totally in your family? Infants/Toddlers/young children/tweens/teens? Spouse? Anyone else?

• How many people will be working in the kitchen at one time (prepping, cooking/baking, cleaning up, other)? Either now or in the future (as children grow up!)

• Appliances? Types, sizes? (Other than what we see...like MW?)

• What size is the refrigerator? Is it an existing one? Or, are you getting a new one? If new, would you like counter-depth, built-in, or full depth?

• What are the dimensions of each wall segment & window and the distances b/w the walls and the windows & doorways?

• Other than the piano wall and the stairs, is everything else fair game? :-)

• What's the minimum length of wall you need for the piano?

• Can the window be moved/changed?

• Do you also want the serving counter to have seating?

• Do you have a pantry elsewhere?

Now, a couple of comments on the latest layout...

Pantry...it's a long walk around either the peninsula or the refrigerator & piano to get to that pantry. Personally, I would be really unhappy the second or third time I had to go back for something I forgot or just realized I needed!

Shortened Wall next to the range...how short is it? Your range is next to that wall (yes, there's 18" b/w it and the wall, but that's not much space). Will it be short enough for someone to accidentally touch something hot on the counter when running down the stairs...or just playing there?

Sorry for all the questions, but it really helps if we know these things!

The stairs there go down. No safety problems there. I can whack that whole wall next to the proposed range. It serves no function and doesn't go to the ceiling. No wiring, nothing.

I have a full time 15mo old and a part time 5yro.

Of course it's nice to have 2 people working in there without stepping all over each other.

The dish washer & range are frigidaire gallery series. The range is convection capable. I'm more than happy to keep those around. The fridge...well it uses 2800 kW/hr a year and should go. This one is a standard 33x33.

The lower wall goes to the ceiling (12') and has some load bearing and a register return vent. I can widen the doorway there no problem.

The window could be moved but as always preferable not to (the house electric box is outside this wall).

No pantry. This plus the awesome decor begs for a kitchen redo. Going to the basement is a much bigger jog than proposed pantry.

I really like the suggestions for the 'L' portion of the kitchen. I would love to do something clever to use the space in the lower right where the fridge goes.

Actually I really could consider also redoing the dining room at the same time since the place doesn't really have room for a breakfast area + dining room together. The last people had a table in the lower right corner and it was extremely cramped there.

I agree that it might get tiresome to walk around to the pantry but you do get extra cabinet and counter space so it's a matter of priority. There is some conflict with the fridge door opening next to the counter (depending on the hinge) but you could slide a narrow broom closet in there to get the clearance. That brings me to the top of the stairs Three feet between the top of them and the fridge isn't a lot of room. Would you ever need to get furniture up or down?

How formal is your dining room or how formal do you want it to be? With two young children, it would be great to have a seating area where they can entertain themselves while you cook. I set mine up with some type of craft for either prep or the final touches and they usually get bored just as I'm done. Is that possible with your last layout or would you consider combining the two rooms for something less formal?

Definitely I would consider something less formal.
What's great is that all I have is a 42x42" drop leaf table from my condo. I have no dining room furniture whatsoever.

Well, you could push the counter (with seating) into the DR, have the pantry included in the kitchen and there might be room for a small table next to the sliding door. If you can extend the kitchen to the sliding door, the fridge could go next to the DW so all your appliances would be in one area and storage in another. If thatÂs how it worked out, IÂd probably put a prep sink in the corner of the bottom L and use whatÂs to the left of it as my prep area.