pull-out breadboards? treatment of any display space such as wine rack, bookshelves, decorative panels? treatment of plain panel sections on cabinet ends?--I wish I'd had it in writing that our guy would use good-looking grain, not too busy. I won't even share a photo of a place where it looks like he thought a nasty grain board would be on inside, not outside of the end panel, sigh. handling of grain in symmetrical sections? I know that cabinet guys can't always match up the oak well, but in big expanses of oak, there can be obnoxious wild grain that needs to be used as a positive feature, not a negative eyesore. Can your guys match-up as best they can for slab or center "Shaker" panels from same general grain kind of board--look at these large drawers, where one set has good match and one has less good. (At least there isn't a real stinker piece here.) (Note: My dad was an old-school carpenter and he would have insisted that cabinet guys treat grain as a feature in symmetrical cab faces.) maximum use of space vs. sizes of cabs? We have a few places where we could have gained functionality if measurements were different. Be sure that you keep track of the sizes and expectations as the evolution of plans takes place. I think that I can explain why the inconsistencies crept in, but I'm not the only one who should have caught the error that cost me dearly in one instance. I think it was the result of a measuring error that was caught and compensated for but only in one instead of in two places where it mattered; a different error was in consequence of a misguided effort to add symmetricality. Both were total surprises to me at time when we couldn't go backward to fix the errors and now I'm married to the errors, stuck with 3 banks of lower cabs that cannot accept a pull-out unit of a sufficient size. Ah, me.

To me, asking "what's your budget" is like a car dealer asking "what do you want your monthly payment to be?" I don't have a fixed dollar amount that I can spend on anything, or a hard cash limit in most cases. Every purchase is an individualized value calculation, and I don't happen to know what everything in the universe costs. If I'm looking for a contractor to build me a new kitchen, I have in mind the level of function and finishes that I want. I have no idea what that will cost. So if I say "$5000" then I'll end up with Habitat Restore cast-offs and sheet vinyl floors. No good. But if I say "$100K" then I'll end up with exotic counters and stuff I really don't value. No good either. So starting with a budget doesn't work for me. What does work is "here's the look I'm after. I want wood cabinets, granite counters, drawers in all the bases, and heated tile floors." They say "that will run between $40-50K." Then I say "hmm, that sounds reasonable" or "Hmm, that seems like more than I want to spend, can you break that down between the components so I can see the cost drivers and decide what's worth keeping and what I want to cut out?" And yes, for me it comes down to things like "it's an extra $1500 to put double stacked crown molding on the cabinets? Nah, never mind on that." But I might bump my budget up by $1500 for heated floors. Do most people really know what they want to spend on a bathroom or kitchen or room addition? I have to shop first, and have a collaborative process to figure out what budget I'm most comfortable with.

RJ, when you price out a job at no cost does your process involve: 1) producing shop drawings along with the price 2) producing full kitchen layouts if kitchen is part of the scope 3) communicating and reviewing detailed bids of 15-20 subs and vendors for both compliance of the project, completion of the bid and lead times needed 3) meeting with the client several times for 2-4 hours each, proving cost saving solutions, resolving plan conflicts and pricing out various scopes in different options (brick, stucco, siding, etc.)? and many other steps along with those? I know, as a millworker, you have to put time and focus on your bids, I just doubt that your process is as complex and comprehensive. If it is not as complex and involving, I may be wrong, but I would guess that during some of the projects that you completed, you have had to ask for additional compensation or there was a misunderstanding on the plans or via client communication due to ambiguities not discussed during pre-project. When I provide a bid price, with the exception of the client taking longer than 60 days to decide to move forward (due to potential significant material price increases, but rarely) I stick to that price no matter what. Pre-contonstruction and pre-planning, as you know, are more crucial at times than the execution. I just don't give those services away. I do appreciate this discussion, as it has helped me in renaming my process as a simple bid to a bid consultation. In my experience, there is a huge difference and most builders do not provide the level of service that I do, per contract! bry, I am sorry if I was ofensive to you, I was merely sensitve at being called unethical. I am 100x more transparent than congress and this president will ever be and I agree with you about our current governmental system (both Republican and Democrat). I do not see myself in the same boat. When my clients agree to move to the next step, they have generally thought things out and have already regonized my value to the project. They are not making decisions in a vacuum, not with the amount of research most of them do, so when they do decide that paying for my service is worth it, they normally do it with open eyes and full intent. I really hope this dialogue has been helpful to folks out there. As I mentioned earlier, there are many ways to agree to a relationship between builder and client, the market ultimately decides what is right in this case. I have had many people reject my process only to come back to me and ask me to move forward with it, because other builders don't want to (more like cannot afford to) put in the time and focus on the bid. In fact I have produced bids for folks in other parts of the country, who know I will not build for them due to proximity, since they understood that after the process, they can take my product, use it in their contract, and receive true apples to apples bids from other builders. So for some it works and for others it doesn't I am glad we all have options.

Design build firms are just vertical integration (backward or forward). They typically create some value for consumers, but just like all created value there is some sacrifice. Theoretically, a design-build firm should create designs they are more efficient at building. In other words, they will design to their strengths, that is the nature of their existence. That efficiency will typically create value for consumers, we imagine that being from improved communication, fewer reworks, etc. However, that comes at a cost, and that cost is creativity (again this is theoretical), if a design-build firm designs to its build strengths, then it will avoid designing to its build weaknesses. Since an independent architect doesn't have to worry about working in those parameters then they should be more open to more creative designs. However, theory and reality are not the same thing. Just because a design-build firm will generally create some additional value, that doesn't mean that it will necessarily create additional value for your particular build. Just because an architect should be more open to creative designs, doesn't mean your particular architect will be able to achieve your vision. The best choice for any individual is going to be somewhat unique to that individual. Sometimes a design-build firm might be better for your particular situation than an independent architect and vice versa. Good luck