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Range and hood with windows on both sides

15 years ago

Anyone setup a kitchen with the range and hood having windows on either side? We are considering changing the traditional L shaped design and rather than have the sink in the longer portion of the L with the box window, having the range and hood instead wrapped with a window on each side. We saw a picture of it somewhere with tall narrow windows and it looked nice.

Any opinions on this?

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Comments (20)

afr66
15 years ago
We have something like this. Cooktop is centered on the long wall with hood above and a cabinet on each side and then a window on each side of that. At least in MA (where I live) windows must be a minimum of 12 inches away from a cooking surface - that is why I have a small cabinet on each side instead of just having the windows directly next to the cooktop.
karnog
Original Author
15 years ago
Would you happen to have a pic? :)

We live in MA as well so that is good to know about needing 12" minimum.
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Lavendar, heating and cooling of spaces become extremely complicated in houses like this. Do you intend to heat/cool the sunporch? Can you use the sunporch in the winter without heating it? My DH and I are not the types to have a coffee in the sunporch that is not heated in the winter even though it maybe sun drenched. You two must be very hardy. We would use the space only if the temperature of the space was above 60F or so. What will be the temperature of the porch that is not heated in the winter? If you have to heat and cool the space to use it effectively, then it is no longer a porch. (by definition, the porches are not conditioned spaces.) If you are cooling and heating the porch, then this becomes an expensive space because you have to insulate it and follow all proper building codes. You see the complications.... This is where you really have to do the soul searching to ask yourself how useful these spaces are without proper HVAC. Do you have an air conditioner for the rest of the house? (most of us in Seattle do not, I don't know if you do in the Eastern part of the state.) Do you have operable (opening) windows in the sunporch or fixed windows? Operable windows will help with the cooling but are more costly. If you need an air conditioner, the sunporch will add a huge cooling burden to the house due to the green house effect unless you have a really large fan that pulls out the heated air from the enclosed sun porch. Are the soffit/attic space continuous with the house attic space? If so, you will need to cool the entire attic space effectively. Make sure you have accounted for that in your cooling/heating load calculations. I think you need to find some people in your region that have large sun porches and see how they are used. If you are essentially using these spaces as green houses, it will be WAY cheaper and better for your house's efficiency to just build a detached green houses, IMHO. I wish you the best in your house design. There is a reason why good professionals charge what they do. You only get to build the house once. If you make mistakes, these are costly and cannot be correctly easily. I have been there. We have SPENT a huge amount of money. Somethings worked out great and other things did not work our as well even though we spent alot of money. If you already have a large porch and know all this, I am sorry that I am butting in. I wish you the best.
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@JudyG, THAT is just plain BS. Just because you put quotes around your own fairy tale does not make it true, nor does editing your answer to something else just as wrong. I will repeat - until you come up with an actual published code, quite trying to claim it exists - much less add the word "most" to your supposition that there must be that one pot of gold at the end of some rainbow someplace to support your crackpot theory. "First in many jurisdictions, it's not legal to have a stove in front of a window." Still a bunch of nonsense no matter how many times it gets repeated on here. You will notice that not one of these people can ever come up with an actual code that states this, no matter how many times I offer them the opportunity to prove it in the last 5 years. The only time it is not legal is when the installation instructions are not followed in the first place, regardless of window placement. It doesn't even make the list for hazardous locations in section R308.4. https://codes.iccsafe.org/public/document/IRC2015/chapter-3-building-planning The Listing and Labeling of ALL cooking appliances contain clearances to COMBUSTIBLE materials ONLY, regardless of any intervening "protection" applied to that combustible material. There is no such thing as a different clearance to a tiled wall or any other non-combustible covering. There is no differentiation in the code, or the testing standards the codes refer to as to whether there is a window in the wall above countertop level, or how far from a window a cooking appliance would have to be if it were a requirement. If there is no minimum distance stated in the code, then how can it be a requirement?? Is it 1 inch or 10 feet? A window on each side of a range will produce the same cross wind as one over a range. Anybody who has 2 broken arms so that they can not shut off the burner for 2 seconds to close a window, probably should not be using the stove either. If the range allows the wall or window behind the range to get over 194°F, then it is the range that is in violation of the codes - not the window. Of course, we all know that CP's little community over the rainbow has gathered every old wives tale code that ever managed to make its way onto the internet, and amended their legal code to make sure they didn't leave any out...They can't even put expansion joints in their concrete slabs because if you end up stepping on a crack, you would break your mother's back!! If you want to watch the "fairytale code" people have a coronary, just skip the hood ;D
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Frankly I think as you have it, your floor plan is dysfunctional for a working kitchen. The island becomes a barrier between your sink and your fridge and freezer. Kitchen flow normally works as following. We take food out of the fridge and pantry > bring it to the sink to wash > prep between sink and cooktop > and then bring it to the cooktop to cook. It's also not a good idea to continually cross zones. Meaning in your layout, to get to the sink from the fridge, you'll be crossing your cooking zone. Additionally after you prepare your food, to get it to the dining area, you'll be passing your sink/cleanup zone. So in both cases there could be a safety issue too. Instead of a U shaped kitchen, have you considered an L shape? Yes you lose some cabinetry but you'll be surprised if you use all drawers for lowers, how much storage you'll have. I just got all drawers for my new kitchen and I have empty drawers! Here's what I propose: 1. Put back the prep sink. In reality, since this is an L shape, there is more room on the non working side to make the island wider. 2. I also made the island longer. 3. I moved the fridge and freezer to the same side as the cooking zone. It keeps the fridge and freezer still close enough to your dining area, but on the same side as needed for preparation. This also puts your fridge/freezer closer to the covered porch area. 4. The stove was moved along with the windows on either side to the wall where the sink was. I do agree that you can do a range hood the same size as the stove, but not one smaller. 5. The cleanup sink (and secondary prep area is now moved to where the stove was. (Note too the dishwasher is out of the secondary prep zone between sink and stove.) 6. The window on that wall was made much wider to allow more light into the kitchen. (What's the point of a big window under a covered porch area?)
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In the meantime.... First, I'd ditch the upper cabinets on the range wall and have the cabinets on the sink wall and refrigerator wall die into the range wall. That will (1) eliminate corner storage -- often wasted space, (2) open up the range wall more, and (3) allow you to move the windows to allow for windows + breathing space on either side of the rangehood. Second, I'd keep the upper cabinets on the both sides of the sink wall's window....but, I'd also probably increase the size of the window. Third, I'd get a more effective and functional rangehood. The one you're showing may look nice, but it isn't very functional. I'm assuming you cook and this is not just a show kitchen -- correct? You need a cavity/cup to corral the FOGSS (fumes, odors, grease, steam, smoke, etc.) for effective venting. A flat one doesn't allow for that. It becomes especially important when your rangehood is not flanked by upper cabinets and when it's flanked by windows. These two reasons are also major reasons why you should stick with your original plan for a rangehood at least 6" wider than your range. And no, don't count on the windows acting as ventilation over your rangehood. You need something above the cooking surface, not to the sides. FOGSS rises and expands, but rises more than expands. Also, if that range is gas, you may have issues with air from the windows interfering with the burner flames. The FOGSS expansion is why you need a wider rangehood -- to capture the FOGSS and allow the fan to vent the FOGSS outside. If you had upper cabinets flanking and up against the rangehood, you might be able to get away with a rangehood with a width = the width of the range. Unless...do you plan to grill or do high-heat cooking (e.g., stir-fry, frying in general, or even a lot of browning of meat)? If so, stick with the 6" wider rangehood. Other comments: Your kitchen really isn't wide enough for truly functional island -- you need about 13" more space to have sufficient aisles to allow you to be able to move around in the Kitchen with the island in the middle. The bare minimum needed: . 25.5"D Sink counters + 45"W aisle + 27"D island + 42"W aisle + 30"D refrigerator/freezer = 169.5" (5.5" more than what you have) (the 45" aisle is so you can have the DW open and still slip b/w it and the island.) 42" aisles are the minimum recommended for a one-person kitchen; 48" for two or more people. . Remember, though, that 48" wide aisles on all sides are better if you plan on having more than one person working in the Kitchen at the same time (two or more cooking or prepping or cleaning up or getting a snack, etc.) So, 169.5" + 3" + 6" = 178.5" (14.5" more than what you have) If you reduce the aisle b/w the refrigerator & island to 45", then 178.5" - 3" = 175.5" (12.5" more than you have) <== this is the bare minimum I recommend . Also, 27" is really a bit shallow for a working island, it's better at 30"D, with 36"D even better. Adding another 3" to the depth of the island: 178.5" + 3" = 181.5" (17.5" more) <== this is what I would prefer overall . Do you need to have cabinets/counters on both sides of the Kitchen? To be honest, right now those counters b/w the refrigerator and range are wasted space since they're not in a good place for a work zone. Would you be willing to switch the sink and range walls and eliminate the cabinets/counters on the left wall? If so, you could have an island with seating: . 30"D refrigerator/freezer + 48"W aisle b/w perimeter and island + 42"D island + 44"W aisle behind the seats = 164" ... exactly what you have right now! (13'8" = 164") I would KEEP the prep sink to make the island functional instead of just a barrier b/w primary work zones. E.g., right now, the island is a major "barrier island" b/w the refrigerator and the perimeter sink -- which will be your only sink if you eliminate the prep sink in the island. The island prep sink is the main thing that allows this Kitchen to be functional. If you take it out, you will have a very unpleasant place to work. Refrigerator & Freezer: Are these going to be true built-in appliances? Not counter-depth (CD) or standard-depth (SD), I mean built-in? I'm asking b/c if they are not going to be true built-in and, instead, are going to be counter-depth, then keep in mind that the majority of counter-depth refrigerators and freezers are actually 30" or more deep when you count the doors & handles. "Counter-depth" only refers to the refrigerator (or freezer) carcass -- the box only. The doors & handles add additional depth. The reason they're deeper is that the doors & handles of CD (and SD) refrigerators/freezers need to stick out past the surrounding counters, cabinets, walls, etc., to allow them to open fully. Standard-depth are even deeper (usually closer to 36"D). If they are CD, then you will need to add another 3" or so to the 13" I discussed above (so, 16" more). I'd move the DW to the right of the sink to get it out of the Prep Zone b/w the range and sink. Even with a prep sink in the island allowing the island to be the primary Prep Zone, that space b/w the range and wall sink will still function as a secondary Prep Zone. (You haven't told us about yourselves, so I don't know if both you and your husband cook, if you have children you will eventually be teaching how to cook & cleanup, etc.) . Let me see what I can come up with for you.
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malhgold
15 years ago
I've been working on my layout for quite a while, but the range wall will be as you describe it. Here is an inspiration photo of mine.
metalmorphing
15 years ago
I CAN SEE THIS ON THAT BACK WALL...
afr66
15 years ago
Two beautiful photos that put my "in process" kitchen to shame!!! Love that range hood. But I digress . . . I'll try and get a photo on here. Unfortunately my old digital takes crappy photos and it is hard to get the whole wall in without glare ruining the pic (despite the fact that it is the darker side of the room . . . )
Anyway, you don't need to have additional cabinets between the hood and windows - just the 12" - I think it is for fire safety reasons. I have them because I needed the extra storage and couldn't just give up those extra 2 cabs. If I had a larger kitchen to work with I would have just had the windows (and they would have been bigger than what I was able to squeeze in). I love that look. I do love having my range top centered on the long wall, though -- it really makes it a focal point. FYI, I've got my sink and dw on a center island in front of it (not installed yet, though).
melle_sacto is hot and dry in CA Zone 9/
15 years ago
We did what you describe in our not-yet-completed kitchen. I love it!

{{!gwi}}

Sorry for the messy shots--gotta head out to work; rarely is something in our kitchen an example of what people are looking for on this forum so I couldn't resist!

{{!gwi}}

I plan to install a white tile backsplash behind the range one of these weekends...in the meantime, the wall stays really clean. I attribute that to our great hood.
rosie
15 years ago
Karnog, we have windows right on each side of our wood hood, like Melle Sactos but narrower stove portion and the rest windows, with no uppers anywhere. I love it.

I did, though, set them a bit too close for practicality, about 49" with a 36" stovetop (because I was fitting standard-size units in and the alternative of going with one less window didn't please). It looked big enough on paper, and there was no code restriction requiring more. If you're considering putting them fairly close, consider grease spatters on the glass and, as mentioned, fire risk (you might some day want curtains for instance) in planning the spacing. We also could only put a 36" hood (40" with wood frame around) over our 36" stove; a wider unit like Melle's was not an option.
malhgold
15 years ago
afr66 - do you have a layout you can post. Struggling with where to put the sink/DW and have considered the island as an option but am concerned with conflict at the sink/range. Thanks
Circus Peanut
15 years ago
I love this look, particularly in mahlgold's inspiration photo (with the exception of the horrifying colonial coach-lantern pendants, forgive me).

If you have the space, go for it - it's so lovely, spacious and welcoming looking.
kateskouros
15 years ago
inspiration from christopher peacock.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:1442271}}
wascolette
15 years ago
We have windows on either side of range, but there is a cabinet between the range & window.
scubated
15 years ago
We are doing like wascolette with 2 glass cabs flanking the hood in between both cabs. In PA we needed to have 20 inches from the range to the window. We have a 36inch range with a 42 inch hood.
mamadadapaige
15 years ago
mahlgold,
where did that inspiration photo come from? I just love that kitchen.
sherilynn
15 years ago
I did 2'W x 1'H upper windows above my cabinets because my 'range wall' faces east and my bay windows for the kitchen face north. This gives me great morning light. I'm so thrilled we did it. I must say that the windows were supposed to be about 4" higher but the way the trusses were done, there had to be a header above the windows, so they are lower than planned. Blame the structural engineer, which came after the architect.
acountryfarm
15 years ago
Our range hood will go between these 2 windows , although it is now installed I have no pictures yet.
afr66
15 years ago
Mahlgold, I'd be happy to post a layout if someone can tell me how. I have it in a pdf file on my computer but don't know how to get it on here. I've posted a couple of photos from photobucket but don't know if the pdf file works the same way.
Just to give you an idea -- my kitchen is approx. 17X16. The wall with the range top (36") is 17 feet and on it we have the range centered as I described, flanked by cabinets, then windows. Double wall ovens are placed at the end of the cabinet run on the right hand side (on the other side of the window). The island is 72X36 and is placed 42 inches in front of the cabinet run - it has the dw, sink and a built in bookcase on one end. My pantry cabinet and fridge are on the opposite side of the kitchen on a short wall.
I struggled to come up with this layout for a long time - I wanted a lot of prep space right next to the cooking surface which is why I ended up with the sink in the middle.
So far I love the look of the cabinet configuration we chose, but can't comment on how it actually works since we aren't done yet!
Also, check with your town on any code requirements for windows. It can vary. My contractor has said that MA is one of the strictest states in terms of this stuff which is why I couldn't have the windows right next to the range as I had intended.
Circus Peanut
15 years ago
afr66: if you open your pdf in Adobe Acrobat (Mac or PC) or Preview (Mac), then from the File menu select 'save as...' it should give you a little dropdown menu and you can choose to save it as a JPG or GIF. Then you can upload that to photobucket and link it here. :)
sarah428
15 years ago
I asked this question a month back and was sent the link below. If you scroll through the pictures you'll see an example.

Here is a link that might be useful: BNAFlyer's Kitchen
malhgold
15 years ago
mamadadapaige - I ripped that pic out of a magazine and unfortunately the name of the publication isn't on either side. It wasn't a kitchn magazine. Could be from the magazine called "Western Interiors", but I'm not really sure. It is amazing(sans rams horns).....isn't it.
karnog
Original Author
15 years ago
Thanks for all the input everyone. Some very wonderful examples given. We ended up deciding to keep the sink and boxed out window as designed. We would have had to frame the hood with very narrow windows due to the fact we have a screened porch that comes very close to one side. I wasn't necessarily opposed to the narrow windows but thought we would get more light with the boxed out window and we were struggling with where we would put the sink. Neither of us liked the idea of a sink with no window and in the island wasn't appealing to us either.

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