I am ordering a 24" bev center, directly from Perlick! They have factor seconds available for purchase. If the piece is going to be built in, you can look for one with a blemish on the side. Give Scott a call there. He can help you find what you want. And the savings are INCREDIBLE! (tell him Karen sent you, he's so nice and helpful--I'm calling him tomorrow to give the ok to ship it finally) Here is a link that might be useful: Perlick's Fatory Seconds

I have two Signature Perlick's and it is possible to hear them, but one wouldn't normally do so unless the room is otherwise quiet. However, both of these units are 24 inches deep, so I can't comment on shallower units. One is a 15-inch wide wine reserve (55F), the other a 24-inch beverage center (43F) (one shelf of which I have replaced with a wine shelf). I use the beverage center at the high end of its temperature range for ale and white wines. The various Perlick units differ in the temperature ranges that they can be set within, and also the spacing between the shelves. The refrigerator is the coldest. Note that the glides for wine racks and regular racks are not interchangeable, so don't mix them up. These units have very high quality stainless steel surfaces, inside and out. Mine use wood overlay doors and they are embedded in cabinetry, so the steel is most visible when the door is open. Even top models are not without areas where improvement can be made. First, a scheme like that used by SubZero to set the height of the rear levelers is needed. Otherwise, alignment requires pulling the unit multiple times for adjustment if the floor is not smooth and level. (The floor under mine is tile.) A second area is the installation directions. I thought that that they could be more plainly written, more thorough, and clearer. So far, operation has been flawless. kas

Thank you all for the wonderful suggestions! My knowledge has increased exponentially in the last 24 hours (but needs to increase some more). I intended to get back earlier, but had toddler troubles and was also trying to put my thoughts together. aokat: Love your kitchen! I aspire for a kitchen that lovely.. i have selected some of the same things, including the pendants :) And that ref does have some muscle! cefreeman: sorry about the acronym confusion!... can you tell I'm a novice here? Muskokacsp: That is one beautiful kitchen!!!... love love love it and that view! We are building on a lake, that is at the top of drawing... "behind" the dining and living rooms. That was the motivation for the open concept, and therefore this extremely spread-out kitchen. Bee, thank you for reminding me of the factory seconds option. I have come across that in some of your previous posts and appreciate you sharing your "secret" :) Lav: Wish it would work! That end of the long wall, where you suggest the Ref is a passageway. So, it would hv to move in 2ft closer to the rangetop in order not to open into the doorway. And i cant think of a good use for the 2' of counter beyond the ref. I have some basic questions: -We are still in the planning/drawing stage. Have been at this stage for a few months now, so at this time, the basic footprint of the house is more or less set, there are minor changes remaining. I am trying really hard to figure out the placement of the important appliances in the kitchen at this stage, so that if I have to increase or decrease the size of the room by a foot here or there, I can do it. Is this the right way or should I just let the plan be finalized and then fit in appliances? The latter is what my designer thinks, but I cannot fathom being stuck with a plan that doenst work as well for me because I didnt lay things out while I still had a chance? -Where do young families generally end up eating most of the time? Island or dining table? I understand this obviously varies from family to family, but what does experience say? I ask because I will try to place the refrigerator likely to hold the kiddie stuff closer to that area. -How bad an idea is it to have upper cabinets instead of window above the sink? Reason: nxt q. -I've read that it is a good idea to have 2ft of dedicated counterspace on the dirty side of the sink and 2ft landing area nxt to cooktop. That makes 4 ft minimum counterspace between cooktop and sink. How important is this piece of wisdom if one has a separate prep sink? I realized today a lot of the dirty stuff nxt to my sink (i have only one now) is the prep-related stuff.... the cutting boards, knives, sundry spoons, etc. These I hope will stay on the island. In that case, can I reduce the counterspace between cooktop and cleanup sink to about 3- 3.5 ft? If not, I'll have upper cab above the sink. -How practical is it to completely separate prep and cleanup sink? I am thinking mine will be a bit of both. Island sink: 70/30 prep/cleaup and periph sink 80/20 cleanup/prep. I will have a DW nxt to each. The only thing is, I air dry the things that handwash, namely pots and pans. And I dont want a pile on my island. And, I dont keep the washed stuff in the sink, either to dry. I always feel they get dirty from splattering. -How silly is is to integrate some appliances and not some others? I like the hunky look of a SS ref (we all have our flaws) and would rather not hide it behind cabinetry. On the other hand, if I have an UC appliance (say ref drawers) in the short side of the island at the dining end (that is super visible from the dining table, I might want to hide them and have them flush with the cabinetry. Thinking about it, I do not use the ovens and freezer as much as the cooktop, ref, and sink. So, if something's gotta give, those 2 will have to go to the short wall. OTOH, for the times I do start something on the cooktop and finish in the oven, I'd be taking the hot stuff all over the kitchen. I would hate to put the cleanup sink in that wall... then, it will hardly get used. And all the junk will pile up on the island. And its a single level island- i would hate for that to happen. I came up with the following options for layout... please tell me what you think: 1. 36" ref only at the dining end of the long wall (drawing attached) Pros: -close to rangetop, so I dont have to separate my cooking items -close to dining room- for drinks, etc. Cons: -close to dining area, so kiddie stuff, juices, yoghurt, drinks- will be in there, too. Not sure if I like little butts looking in there when I'm trying to get something. OTOH if island is where kids will mostly eat, putting ref drawers with milk, snacks, etc on the short wall makes the problem go away. -No water/ice dispenser from door. We absolutely LOVE the ice/chilled water thru the door with a side-by side ref and freezer. What are our options? Freezer with icemaker? What about chilled water? We're down south, so tap water is not very cool in summer. -Options for freezer: SZ all freezer columns may too much freezer for us. Min is 27" W. Thermador has 18". How would it look to have a SZ ref and a thermador freezer. They would be far from each other- actually, diagonally opposite corners of the room. Could I hide the freezer behind panelling? Combination ref/freezer drawers may be too little, if that 1 drawer is the only freezer we have in the entire house. -Symmetry issue: Nothing on the other end of the wall to balance out the SS chunk of ref... how about a tall cabinet with appliance garage? It will not be SS but at least tall. Option 2. 36" ref only at the pantry end, like lavender suggested, but alas, this wont work... I like it, too. Option 3. Option 3. 36" or 42" ref/freezer side-by-side at bottom wall (like in original plan) with ref drawers near the rangetop, maybe in the island. Pros: -ice and water thru the door Cons: -separation of cooking items into frequently used vs not-so-frequently used. -Kiddie stuff: will have to go into the main ref, which i dont prefer. Mommy ends up with the drawers, little ones end up with the big fridge. Not fair ;) Hmm, pretty darn confusing! What do you say? And really sorry about the novel!

Tamara....I know this thread is old, but your kitchen is simply stunning! Are your cabinets Chantilly Lace? I read you kitchen delays and had to smile. I've lost weight and sleep over my darn remodel. Who knew how stressful this would be? If you used Chantilly Lace did you paint your ceiling the same. I just ordered my paint yesterday and I'm freaking out that it might be too bright.....