Oh Houseful. What a nightmare. I'm sure others with experience will be of more help. But can you call the Consumer Affairs Division of your Attorney General's Office. The advise is free and may be a good starting place. They may be able to tell you how to phrase your conversation with the sub. At best, imo this is unethical.

I would call back the CC company and tell them that this is an erroneous charge. I'd want to get that on record with them ASAP. There is a pretty straightforward process for getting money back from vendors when there is an erroneous charge. They have no signed authorization from you for this charge, so it's bogus. It could be a simple mistake or bona fide fraud.. but either way, the CC company should help.

Call him first, then - IF you do NOT get a refund immediately, call the ROC - I would pretty much GUARANTEE that you will get his full and undivided attention AND a refund !!!

We used to have a saying in Vietnam -
"If you've got 'em by the b*lls - their hearts and minds will follow"

Maybe...... (and I'm REEEEALLY being generous here) it's a simple oversight or mistake in his office - people do make them - heck I make 'em all the time (mistakes that is....)

Start out "CIVIL", but if you get no resolution - GO "SYBIL" ON HIM

hth

k

Credit card companies encourage you to work things out with the vendor but it's you choice to dispute the charge. By the way, as you found out, you're better off paying with a credit card than with cash so that you have recourse.

I didn't think there was a downside to paying with a credit card, but you found it. Luckily it's a credit card, so it'll get sorted out. It really COULD have been a mistake so I agree to be nice before you go bad.

Good luck!

I don't understand why you think warning other potential customers would be wrong.... I think that it would be proper thing to do and to allow this guy to prey on more people is unethical. Wouldn't you have liked a warning?
All it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing....

Many contractors maintain client credit card records on file. That's not at all unusual. And it's not unusual for a contractor to request payment for a job that seems to be coming to close. It is possible that someone in his billing office saw that and put through the charge to keep the account from going past due. Yes, they should have contacted you first to be sure you wanted to use the payment information on file instead of another method, but as it was a small amount, they probably just assumed that you'd be OK with the payment as that was what you had done in the past. They shouldn't have assumed, but I'm sure that the intentions were not malicious. It's like having your card on file at Amazon from past purchases and you ordering something else from them. If you click your way through too fast, you may end up putting the charge on that card instead of another at the checkout. Billing offices can sometimes make those mistakes as well.

You are being much too hasty in calling anything dishonest here. It was a bill that you intended to take care of anyway, so it's not like he charged 10K on the account. THAT would be fraud. What you have is miscommunication between you both and a bit of a tendancy on your part to assume the worst. :)

I shudder to think that our gc could have charged the last payment if he had had our cc info. Although, maybe the cc company would have helped us to get things finished if we filed a dispute with them.

We have autopay for many of our bills and we get notified in advance about any payments coming out.

The final payment should never be made until the job is complete. This guy did not check to see that your cab order was done to your satisfaction. It does not sound like your cab damage was settled.

go to your bank and get credit gift cards to pay him. my bank only issues them up to a 500.00 limit. That will also limit your gc!

also double check that you can dispute charges on it. As far as I know you can - that's what I was told. I use them for ordering online and have been using them to get items I need for my new place even around town - like HD / lowes. easier to keep track of what I get that way.

do report him to the ROC.

Green, really this is just the last of many little, strange things he has done. There are only a few other people in his office and I have never dealt with any of them. So let's say at worst, he runs his office poorly and nobody there knew that my kitchen is not complete. They basically have all my money and I have an incomplete kitchen. The CC company called it "fraud", I stand by my use of the word "dishonest" here. And I forgot that he did say the final bill would around $1400 or $1500. He said, "I'll let you know," as he walked away.

Unethical is the perfect word, CeltinNE. I looked up Consumer Affairs in AZ, but I will wait to see what this guy says before I contact them. I bookmarked the website.

Steve, Fori, and Weissman: Yeah, you'd think the CC payment would be some sort of protection. But, by paying cash, you can hold back some for any pickup work (which still have quite a bit of on stage one). I've always preferred CC payment for things like this, but the dispute process isn't quick apparently. I will most certainly be polite with him and give him a chance to explain himself. I can almost anticipate what he is going to say and it will be patronizing. My heart is in my throat everytime my phone rings, but so far he hasn't called. It's strange, because he almost always call me right back.

LOL, Kevin! I can do Sybil if I have to, but hopefully it won't come to that.

Dianalo, if anyone asked my opinion in person here locally, I would let them know not to use him. However, I wouldn't post his name here is all I meant.

I am telling you that my gut says he's having financial trouble and he took advantage. Call it women's intuition or whatever, but it's rarely wrong.

Dianalo, we were cross posting. I know you're dealing with way more than this. Did you finally speak to a lawyer?

Steph, you're talking about those VISA gift cards? That's a great option if they handle disputes. I'm prepared to do what I have to do, but I'll wait out the day.

Well, I was right. I couldn't stand the anticipation, so I called him.

One quick explanation here. There was mistake on my island granite when installed in Dec.. It was agreed that cab guy would give me $500 credit on second section and granite guy would give me $500. So that's $1000 total. The second half was going to be $2000, but now it would only be $1000. I changed a few things which brought price to $1600. But that still was for cabs and counters.

So here's how the call went. He said hello and how are you. I reciprocated. And here's the rest:

"What's up?"

"I'm wondering why you charged my credit card in full."

"I thought you told me to that day I asked you!"

"No, I never told you to. You asked me if I want to use one of them and I told you we may pay half cash and that I would let you know after I got a final amount. Then you gave me a rough estimate and told me you'd let me know a final amount."

Here comes the patronizing part...

"I'm sorry, I thought you said yes. I just had to pay for the cabinets, that's all. Just had to pay my bills. I don't want you to be upset."

Of course at this point I am getting angry. I proceeded to explain to him that I don't have a complete kitchen. He has the nerve to say, "Yes, you do. You have all your cabinets."

"No, I don't have countertops."

"Well, John (granite man, not his real name) gave you the $1000 credit."

"I have nothing to do with John except that he comes here and install my counters. I agreed to buy everything through you; I pay nothing to John!"

More apologies and playing dumb. I told him that in the very least a phone call would have been nice. We go back and forth from there regarding no counters, no glass doors, etc. I told as a businessman and consumer,he should know that no customer in their right mind would pay in full for job not finished. I told him he must have the granite guy at my house and my glass doors brought here TOMORROW! AND I told him I felt he was very unethical. Do you think he cares? Not in the least.

So now, if this doesn't happen tomorrow, I'll pursue some other options. I know the CC company will help us out even though it may take some time. The granite guy is wonderful and I know he'll come through for me.

I want this kitchen finished and I am happy to pay for what I owe (at the right time, of course). This guy is a slimy liar and it really turns my stomach! I mean I seriously felt sick for about 10 minutes. Just typing this out was very cathartic for me and thanks for "listening" to my vent.

I love a sharped-dressed man, except when he's trying to sell me something.

Yep, you were right. Slimeball. Sounds like you handled it well.

I do so hate that "hey little woman I have to pay my X" business. As soon as I get that suddenly I'm the little woman who can't write a check.

I fell for that "have to pay bills bs" because since our job was behind schedule, they were behind being paid. Our contract read $10k for the last payment yet all we owe is $1800+. I bet if I still owed the $10k, I'd have had satisfaction by now. I work on commission and understand having to wait months to get paid because when I sell a house it can be months before I see a penny. I don't ever get paid before a house closes. I can sympathize but it is the field he chose to work in, and that is how it goes.

I still think I'd post his info far and wide so that anyone googling him will find this thread. The internet is local even if we GWers are not.... As long as you are factual, I'd be certain to post reviews (as I did) and generally help potential customers to know what to expect.

A friend of mine used the same gc 7 years ago. She mentioned that to me early on but nothing past that. I assumed she had been happy. She moved away, so maybe our communication was not great about it, but I know she knew we were going with them. Imagine my surprise a few days ago when she mentioned they did the same poor finish job at the end to her. Now, I can understand if I mentioned I had signed with them already, that she would feel funny saying how unhappy she had been, but, she could have warned me to watch out paying near the end and do not trust them to finish well on their honor alone. I am a bit ticked right now.... How could she have not spelled out the danger for a good friend? If you have the chance to warn other consumers, it is the right thing to do.... This is more than a bad meal or small transaction. Bad gcs can really wreak havoc....

Btw- we met with an atty, but it would cost $5k to hire him, which we would not get back. If the contract had stated that they were due compensation if we breached, then we could have put in for it from them. Sadly, it did not mention that so we'd be out the $5k and there is no guarantee what we'd recover. Since we owe the $1,800+, we'd have to recover quite a bit to be worthwhile and that won't happen. We will have to go through consumer affairs and/or small claims court. It will be stressful and laborious, but it should result in some money recovered. The atty made a great point in that people embark on projects for $100k and up and yet never think to have an atty read and edit the contract. The contractors have used legal advice to draw it up and it is not done to protect the consumer. If I had paid for an hour of the atty's time, I could have prevented a lot of the grief now. Food for thought for anyone thinking of a large renovation. Ours included an extension and renovation and was fairly large in scale. It would have made sense to go into it protected by someone, because we counted on the gc protecting us from others, and that did not come to pass.... then we needed protection from him!

"...suddenly I'm the little woman who can't write a check." LOL! Oh, how I wish I was in that position now!

I did remember one more thing the cab guy said which is how I know this was intentional. I asked him how he knew which card to use (he had two on file) and he said, "I just use the second one you gave me." Basically he admitted that I never gave him permission. Just writing this is raising my blood pressure again!

Dianalo, yeah, I would be angry with that friend since she had the opportunity beforehand to tell you. I would never NOT tell someone if I was in that situation, even if they didn't directly ask. I will find the right way to let others know. Gotta think about it for awhile.

I am sorry you have to go through this; your situation seems much more complicated than mine. I saw your newest post and it's excellent. Too bad life is not like the movies where good always triumphs!

I spent yesterday and today getting cabinets installed and "John" showed up just like clock work this afternoon. He will call me in the morning so I can meet him to discuss layout before he makes any cuts. He is not the cab guy's business partner, just a subcontractor for him. Regardless of his relationship with cab guy, I really, really like this man. I hope he gets paid on time.

Now to find out where my glass uppers are!