talking myself out of beaded inset

13 years ago

I met with the 3rd KD/Contractor 2 weeks ago. While taking measurements he saw a backsplash inspiration photo with creamy white inset cabinets that I had taped on the side of a cabinet. I never thought they would be a possibility.

When we met with him the following weekend his price was in my budget even with the inset cabinets. A problem a work caused me to have to leave the meeting before I had a chance to really look at the floor plan and budget details. Then reality hit. The floor plan and details needed changes that we had discussed, but hadn't been included when his partner drew up the quote. The cabinet price went up significantly. That put it at the total price at the top of my budget. While I can still afford the cabinets, it would mean cutting back elsewhere, assuming that there are no other gochas. I'm still not sure how those fairly minor changes raised the price so much higher, but they did. 18K worth of cabinets in my little kitchen, in my little house, is ludicrous. And there are more details that need to be reviewed and changed.

So now I am talking myself out of going above my budget to get those pretty, creamy white beaded inset cabinets.

1.. I would have less usable drawer space, even though it would still be double the usable space I have now.

2. Most likely the grade of granite would take a hit. I really like the Costa Esmeralda, but may need to get a cheaper grade.

3.. I would have to buy the pricier dishwasher to fit the inset cabinets better.

4.. [sigh]

Any more reasons I shouldn't blow my budget and buy these cabinets?

The KD said he has a full overlay door that looks like beaded inset and would bring the cabinet price down 3K. I'll see that on Saturday.

BF isn't helping, he's telling me to buy what I like.

Featured Answer

formerlyflorantha

13 years ago

You've just joined the cast of the soap opera, "Death of a Dream." You can join many others of us in co-starring in a primary role. More episodes to come, I assure you. Be sure that you pad your budget with money for more over-runs. They're inevitable.

(Currently am enjoying my new but unplanned replacement plumbing, which has cost time and money and my hopes for a few kitchen splurges and a vacation this summer....)

Booze has been recommended by many posters. Personally, I suggest red wine, cheese, olives, and hot baths, if you have a tub available. And then, there's this forum, which allows you to vent. And remember, it's only a kitchen.

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Comments (17)

kateskouros
13 years ago
first of all, are you under contract with this cabinet maker? because i have to tell you, i have a fairly large kitchen with many bells and whistles. i changed my layout every other day, added seeded glass, exposed hinges, toe kick opening trash cans, pull out toe kicks for the kids, etc, etc, etc, ...and my price stayed exactly the same. i was not over charged to begin with ...this was the best price i got out of SEVEN quotes. the cabinet maker was recommended to us by our GC and they are they BEST people i have ever had the pleasure of working with. when i met him i asked about the estimate and he told me he'd give me a price and it would include everything i wanted ...no matter when i thought of it. when the cabinets are installed i will then decide how i want the drawer inserts done ...and they'll make them up for me.

i don't mean to suggest this is the norm. we are building a new home so there is more than just a kitchen for them, BUT many contractors are still struggling for work and while i wouldn't think of taking advantage of someone, it is still a buyers market. how many quotes have you gotten? i did have a cabinet maker before the guys i ultimately hired ...and i paid him $500 to begin drawings. and then i quickly realized the prices would jump up after making the smallest change. he was also very slow in getting back to me ...it would take him over six weeks to make any revisions and would never return calls.
after i was introduced to GC's cabinet maker he had accurate drawings for me the very NEXT day. it was ridiculous. my cabinets were delivered two days ago and six guys jumped out of the back of the truck all excited, telling me how gorgeous they are and they can't wait to see MY face when they're finally in.
honestly, if you're being nickeled and dimed in this economy i think you should look elsewhere. jmo, though. good luck to you.
plllog
13 years ago
Is 3K enough of a savings to be worth not spending the 3K to get what you want?

My kitchen is my house's main opportunity for storage so I went cabinet happy, including the full overlay. Because I was used to custom framed in place I'm still getting used to how much the cabinets do not hold. The thought of paying more to get less space is ludicrous. Since you say your house is little, maybe this would be a good approach? Start with finding out how you can get the most storage and then go for a look you like that goes with that? I had about four or five different ideas of what I wanted my kitchen to look like, then followed my finishes into uncharted territory.

If there aren't a whole bunch of different looks you like, but you've always dreamt only of beaded inset, get it. Either go back to the less ideal plan, if it's something you can live with, or get a job giftwrapping at the holidays or something to pay for the extra ding.

Also consider how long you're going to be there. If you can't project yourself ten years in the future replacing a dishwasher that has died, then is it really worth the money for the beaded inset? If you're going to have it for 20 years, that's less than a thousand dollars a year for cabinets that you adore. A few dollars a day. A Starbucks. If you move in 6 years, that's $3k per year, that's over $8.00 per day. How does that feel? Compare it to how much a really nice (customized) IKEA kitchen would cost to get how much you'll "lose" if you sell soon.

Go look at Elizpiz's kitchen and see if you fall in love. Not that hers is any cheaper. Just that there's more than beaded inset to fall in love with. :)
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Thanks Sweeby! I did check your recommendation, it seems that they do not carry the pattern that I am interested in, but they do carry quite a lot of beautiful glass and options for the overall look of the door or cabinet that the glass is ordered for. Very beautiful way to finish a cabinet. I also posted this question on the Kitchens forum since there is far more experience with cabinetry over there and as I expected, I got a few more responses to my question. Here are the replies I received. They're very helpful, which is why I'm copying them here. RE: Have You Ever Heard of the Glass Inset Falling Out of a Cab D Breathe! The glass shouldn't fall out. If you're worried about it, however, there are little clips for securing the glass, and you can add more. You could also nail in a little molding bead. Most important, if you think there will be banging into the glass, get tempered. It costs more, but is harder to break and doesn't get as many shards when it does break. Check your local code. You might have to use tempered, or even wired, in a bathroom, by code, because people slip. I think my glass was installed by my cabinetmakers. They were here at the same time as the glass company was installing my BP backsplash, however, so I'm not 100% sure. Re glass shelves, it depends on what look you want, and what you're going to store. If you want the light to shine through the shelves, you must, of course, have glass shelves. For a beach or cottage look, however, you can just as easily do wood if it has a nicely finished side. Glass shelves might be better for a "formal" look. For a "formal" look, Reeded would be very nice. Glue Chip might be more feminine, however. Any simple, all over pattern would be good. I'd avoid anything that's figural, that is, no bamboo, leaves, raindrops, etc. RE: Have You Ever Heard of a Glass Inset Falling Out of a Cabnt D Posted by mama_goose (My Page) on Tue, Jun 22, 10 at 14:15 Are there already plenty of mirrors? With several girls using the bathroom, you might consider another mirror in the door. Here is a link that might be useful: Mirrored cabinet doors thread. RE: Have You Ever Heard of a Glass Inset Falling Out of a Cabnt D Posted by cupofkindness (My Page) on Tue, Jun 22, 10 at 14:20 Plllog: Thank you so much for your reply, it sets my mind at ease. Good, practical information. Here is a link to the patterned glass that I'm considering. I don't think it is tempered, however. I just hope it has a timeless appeal. My local glass shop doesn't carry this pattern, so I may have to buy it from the cabinet company, which I'd rather avoid. But at this point I just need to move forward. Any other opinions? What do you think of this pattern? Thanks again! Here is a link that might be useful: Morisco Glass RE: Have You Ever Heard of a Glass Inset Falling Out of a Cabnt D Posted by growlery (My Page) on Tue, Jun 22, 10 at 14:30 One can't say it would never happen. But it wouldn't happen without warning. You'd notice the joints getting loose, the glass jiggling or rattling, the cracks getting wider. This could happen over the years as a normal part of wear and settling. Just take it down long before anything happens, have it fixed put it back up and it should give you many more years of safe service. RE: Have You Ever Heard of a Glass Inset Falling Out of a Cabnt D Posted by plllog (My Page) on Tue, Jun 22, 10 at 16:53 Cup, I think the pattern is pretty and girly enough, if a bit busy. It's not what I'd choose for "formal", but if you have some Victorian style elements, for instance, it should do well. You can have any glass tempered. The big problem with cabinet glass (as I discovered to my dismay!) is shipping, especially if the lengths are long. Do you live in or near a city? If so you can call around to see if anyone carries your glass. 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If you can't find a local shop that carries it, it might be best to let the cabinet company do it. They're crating and shipping your cabinets anyway. RE: Have You Ever Heard of a Glass Inset Falling Out of a Cabnt D Posted by cupofkindness (My Page) on Tue, Jun 22, 10 at 19:49 plllog: Everything you've said makes perfect sense. Thank you so much for taking the time to post. And Mama Goose, I love those mirrored cabinets, they are wonderful. However, in this small tub/toilet room, when you step out of the tub, there would be the mirrors, and I'm not sure if my girls would be comfortable with that. I'll ask them what they think. It's a great idea, mirrors add so much to any room. Growlery, you are right as well, the glass wouldn't just fall out of the doors one day, we would have some warning.... now why didn't I think of that? Thanks again to all of you for your comments and suggestions. 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kmkeenan - I am pleased with my Kountry Kraft cabinets, don't get me wrong. It is just that I now believe I could have had a better/finer end result for very close to the same money if I'd gone with a quality individual cabinet maker. No big commercial outfit is completely custom - they all make boxes and fit them into your space. A talented cabinet maker can build on site if needed for certain situations. My "big" issues with KK are as follows - The seam where two boxes would meet was very obvious and you could see it get thinner where the installer had screwed the two together. The reason, I'm told, is that the factory sands the edges of each box ever so slightly, which rounds them a bit so that when two edges meet, they have a bit of a shadow between them that really shows up a lot with white inset cabinets. In contrast, where my installer had to scrib a piece of cabinetry onsite to "fill" a space, the resulting seam was almost invisible bc he cut the piece himself instead of it being done at the factory, so the edge was very sharp and not at all rounded. Anotoher flaw, which you could probably prevent if you clarify in your contract. I had exposed hinges with my inset doors. Where two sets of doors met in my kitchen the hinges weren't aligned in a level way, so one set would be slightly higher than the one next to it. If you get exposed hinges, you should ask that all your hinges be carefully installed at the exact same place on each cabinet door so that when they end up next to each other, they are level. This is something I never would have thought of until we saw them installed and it really bugged us. Here is a picture - (you can see the seam issue here as well. Basically a dark line where every box meets another!) One of the big corbel things on my range hood cover had globs on it that could not be redone and wasn't able to be touched up very well. This was a simple quality control issue that fell through the cracks and left a bad taste in my mouth. The average person will never notice it, but I do. My KD promised me all the bells and whistles I wanted would be included in my price (knife drawer, divided sections in my storage drawers, etc.) Well, he had never designed a kitchen with dish drawers before and says he didn't realize that the wooden dowels that are required for the drawers would cost $55 for a set of four (4 are needed to corral each stack of dishes/bowls - a minimum of 4 sets per dish drawer, and more if stacking items of smaller diameter!) He only gave me 4 sets for my two dish drawers and I had to pay for more myself. After spending over $90K for my KK cabinets, this nickel & diming ticked me off. Get EVERYTHING promised in writing! Everyone will be happier for it in the end! Last, I had a few doors and drawers damaged by my *%*(&($ Contractor and they had to be replaced. The replacements came in a slightly pinker hue than the rest of my kitchen. We even sent in the cover to my desk drop-down drawer so they could redo it and try to color match perfectly, and they still came back pinker. This is incredibly noticeable to me in the daytime and still makes me boil a little every time I notice it. I'm certain that if my cabinet maker guy had done my kitchen that he could have done a better job matching the color for the replacement doors/drawers. The bottom line is, with a big company you will not get the attention to detail that you would get with a talented, quality cabinet maker.
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katsmah
Original Author
13 years ago
katekourous, I'm not under contract with this KD, but will most likely go with him. I've spoken to his refernces and they are all very good. I'm sure that it was an honest mistake in the original quote, but it was very disappointing. I had been vacilating about my choices before I saw these cabinets, then it became very clear. The constuction is very good, I love the color and door style.

By nature, I am pretty frugal and have always lived below my means so I can afford to go higher, thats what makes this harder. I would be paying more to get less. I have a hard time working that out. I plan to be in this house for at least another dozen years, so it would even out in the end... I've turned this over and over in my head trying to make a decision. I think I need some wine with my whine.
Jbrig
13 years ago
katsmah, I have seen (and am planning on doing) inset cabs for uppers only, and then full overlay for the lowers. I like this idea b/c then I can get the look I want while avoiding the other probs you mentioned (i.e. drawer space, DW issues). If you are interested, I think I have a couple of pics saved that show this look. Others here may also have some pics. A member here, sombreuil mongrel, did this in his kitchen. Below is a link to some of his pics; just look for his name about midway through the thread.

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0110110612336.html

Also, the clickable link below has some more pics of his beautiful cabs.

Here is a link that might be useful: Inset uppers w/ full overlay lower cabs
missstella
13 years ago
I am cabinet shopping right now too. I love the look of the inset cabinets but have found that there are a number of full overlay designs that have an edge that will give the look of a beaded inset without the added expense. I am trying to have several cabinet options that I can be happy with so I can keep (finance) the rest of my kitchen dreams alive.

Good luck, and let us know what you come up with.
katsmah
Original Author
13 years ago
jbrig, that is a wonderful idea!! I think that might work. Except for the sink and the super susan the rest of my lower cabinets are drawers. I would love to see any pictures you have. Thank you!!
Jbrig
13 years ago
I'll look for those pics later tonight--if you don't see anything by tomorrow, you might want to email me through "My Page" link and remind me :-)
Jbrig
13 years ago
missstella, would you mind sharing the options you've found that mimic the beaded inset look? Thanks
cjc123
13 years ago
They are putting the final touches on my kitchen but I just had to throw in my 2 cents. I have beaded inset uppers and full over lay lowers! I love it! No one has noticed that I have two styles. I put in lots of drawers and didn't want to loose the space with inset. I haven't got time right now to figure out how to post photo's but if you will give me your email I will try to send you a few photo's. LOVE MY KITCHEN!! Dark cherry stain, super white granite. :-) Cindy
katsmah
Original Author
13 years ago
cjc123, if you could send your photos to ninhar @ optonline.net (remove spaces) I can upload them to my photobucket acct tonight. I would love to see your pictures.

For those who have done this, if you had a tall cabinet (pull out pantry) what did you use for that?
katsmah
Original Author
13 years ago
With cjc123's permission this is a 'sneak peek' of her beautiful cabinets with the inset upper and full overlay lowers. I love this idea.
sabjimata
13 years ago
I did not get my dream cabinets. I got *the cheapest* door available from the cabinet line I wanted. Half inch overlay, five piece raised panel. RAISED PANEL! I did not want raised panel.
But! I did get white painted perimeter cabs, super solid construction and the extras I wanted that will make life more functional.

Cabinets started going in yesterday and I thought they looked blah. Sinks went in this evening and hardware going on cabinets. LOVE EVERYTHING! Very glad I did not *get what I wanted* because, in the end, I am very happy with my compromises. And we are still over budget.

My observation is that when you are in the planning stage, it is like hot fire...like a new adolescent romance. You need what you want and you need it exactly like you want it and you need it right away. Then you get into the "relationship"...the remodel...and it is TEDIOUS and tiring and you are a stickler but you also realize the sea turtle population is greatly in danger from the oil spill and that girls are being sold into sexual slavery in Asia and small dings and scuffs are tolerable and the bigger picture lets you *be happy* with all that you have!

Three thousand is a good amount to have on hand for the unexpected!
missstella
13 years ago
Katsmah,

I think the Schrock--Brantley door style and the Dynasty Omega door styles Williamsburg, Marco and Beringer can give an inset look partly because they all have a square edge, and a "routed" edge that look like the frame of an inset cabinet. Also, the use of glazes can be used to highlight these edges. Mind you, this is my opinion, but with a full overlay I think the eye can be fooled/satisfied with a cabinet like this.

I personally like the upper inset with a lower full overlay idea, I'm putting that in my idea book.

Hope this is helpful.

Here is a link that might be useful: {{!gwi}}
Nancy in Mich
13 years ago
Katsma,
Can you sand? Paint? The third kitchen down in the link below is a beaded inset kitchen in pine. You can have it, and the granite, butcher block, pot filler, Bosch dishwasher, microwave, under-cabinet lighting, sink, furniture feet, crown molding, and glass door fronts for $11000.

You are lucky to be so close to Green Demolition stores. I had to buy mine sight-unseen and pay to fly someone to CT to drive a Budget rental truck with my kitchen inside home to Michigan.

Of course, the first kitchen in the link is all pained and nice, but you said you had a small kitchen and it likely wouldn't fit. Could you imagine having it though?

Here is a link that might be useful: Green Demolitions
katsmah
Original Author
13 years ago
I'm going to have to see the doors the KD has in mind. I think I know which ones they are from the Starmark line. They look ok.

Nancy, you bought a kitchen from Green Demolition? Wow, I just recently heard of them but haven't been to their store yet. I'm about 20 mins from the NJ store. I'll have to check that out. That first kitchen in the link is beautiful and also the size of my house.
Jbrig
13 years ago
katsmah,

Well, I couldn't find them if I had any other pics, but I did find this one online. Unfortunately, it's not easy to see the lowers. Can't wait to see how your kitchen progresses! (I still need to get all my info together and post my proposed layout to get some insight from others here.)

Here is a link that might be useful: Shaker inset uppers, overlay lower cabs

talking myself out of beaded inset

formerlyflorantha

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