Design options U Shape or L shape?

11 years ago

Hi all,

We are in the process of purchasing a bank owned property as our primary home. I attached the picture of the existing kitchen. It had an island but was taken by the previous owner. The kitchen is 162" wide (bottom of the U) and 152" long with a window that is 72" wide on the left side.

My KD suggested making it a U shape kitchen with pantry cabinet, frig and wall oven on the right side. I will still have space for an island that is about (84"x36"). That is my plan A. I've been working with this plan and price cabinets. It seems to cost more than I plan to pay for the kind of quality I want. The plan has lots of cabinets.

Then today, I spotted this picture

on GW and kept going back to it. Sorry I am not even sure which thread I originally got it from and whose kitchen it is. I am thinking what if I make my kitchen L shaped. The cabinet cost will be much less. But I will have to lose my wall oven and I don't have a place for microwave either. I can also really use the pantry cabinet since there is no pantry in this house.

I'd love to find out what GW experts think? L shape or U shape?

Thanks a lot,

Jane

Featured Answer

localeater

11 years ago

Congratulations on your new home. The floors look beautiful and I think the existing layout is pretty good.
I am a total proponent of the L. I am converting from a U to an L right now. The L is fine if you are the only cook in the kitchen, with more than one you tend to bump into each other. I also minded that I was always working with my back to the rest of the house. Of course this is due to where my prep space was situated. But your current floor plan is similar, assuming you will do your chopping and mixing on the counter near the stove.
I decided I want to chop and mix facing the living space. So I have an island facing that space which I use to make lunchboxes, chop veggies, mix dough, roll dough, etc...
I do not face them when I am actually active at the stove top. That's OK with me because then I would probably burn something(or myself).
While I await my final kitchen plan and my eventual kitchen cabinets, we actually removed a non-supporting wall and the peninsula that made my U which it was holding. We pivoted it and made my kitchen into an L for the interim. I am so much happier now. Wish I had done it 2 years earlier.
You will need to think about the width of your space. I think you need a path to you fridge against the wall. You will need at least 36"(preferably 42") on all sides of the island. I think you would end up with a narrower island than in your inspiration picture, but there is nothing wrong with that.
On another subject your cabinets seem to be OK, of course all I see is the picture. You could potentially paint/refinish to save some money. I would be very tempted to do that with the base cabinets. Although I would also like to see the stove centered on the rear wall.
Good luck!

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Comments (14)

herbflavor
11 years ago
spec out a U on the lowers-and forego some wall cabs and make sure you get drawers wherever you can and the pantry has great rollouts or whatever.That might tweak the price.
I can see the good thing about the depth of frig/pantry and ovens on the right-because it is a featureless wall and you have the room's width to allow for this....If the frig is sandwiched between,you won't see it straight on very much-you could get black or white or the basic stainless model and maybe reduce some cost. What are your thoughts about quality that makes the price prohibitive? There are numerous ways to get cabinet pricing where you want it and not compromise greatly in quality. Clue us in.
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Frankly I think as you have it, your floor plan is dysfunctional for a working kitchen. The island becomes a barrier between your sink and your fridge and freezer. Kitchen flow normally works as following. We take food out of the fridge and pantry > bring it to the sink to wash > prep between sink and cooktop > and then bring it to the cooktop to cook. It's also not a good idea to continually cross zones. Meaning in your layout, to get to the sink from the fridge, you'll be crossing your cooking zone. Additionally after you prepare your food, to get it to the dining area, you'll be passing your sink/cleanup zone. So in both cases there could be a safety issue too. Instead of a U shaped kitchen, have you considered an L shape? Yes you lose some cabinetry but you'll be surprised if you use all drawers for lowers, how much storage you'll have. I just got all drawers for my new kitchen and I have empty drawers! Here's what I propose: 1. Put back the prep sink. In reality, since this is an L shape, there is more room on the non working side to make the island wider. 2. I also made the island longer. 3. I moved the fridge and freezer to the same side as the cooking zone. It keeps the fridge and freezer still close enough to your dining area, but on the same side as needed for preparation. This also puts your fridge/freezer closer to the covered porch area. 4. The stove was moved along with the windows on either side to the wall where the sink was. I do agree that you can do a range hood the same size as the stove, but not one smaller. 5. The cleanup sink (and secondary prep area is now moved to where the stove was. (Note too the dishwasher is out of the secondary prep zone between sink and stove.) 6. The window on that wall was made much wider to allow more light into the kitchen. (What's the point of a big window under a covered porch area?)
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In the meantime.... First, I'd ditch the upper cabinets on the range wall and have the cabinets on the sink wall and refrigerator wall die into the range wall. That will (1) eliminate corner storage -- often wasted space, (2) open up the range wall more, and (3) allow you to move the windows to allow for windows + breathing space on either side of the rangehood. Second, I'd keep the upper cabinets on the both sides of the sink wall's window....but, I'd also probably increase the size of the window. Third, I'd get a more effective and functional rangehood. The one you're showing may look nice, but it isn't very functional. I'm assuming you cook and this is not just a show kitchen -- correct? You need a cavity/cup to corral the FOGSS (fumes, odors, grease, steam, smoke, etc.) for effective venting. A flat one doesn't allow for that. It becomes especially important when your rangehood is not flanked by upper cabinets and when it's flanked by windows. These two reasons are also major reasons why you should stick with your original plan for a rangehood at least 6" wider than your range. And no, don't count on the windows acting as ventilation over your rangehood. You need something above the cooking surface, not to the sides. FOGSS rises and expands, but rises more than expands. Also, if that range is gas, you may have issues with air from the windows interfering with the burner flames. The FOGSS expansion is why you need a wider rangehood -- to capture the FOGSS and allow the fan to vent the FOGSS outside. If you had upper cabinets flanking and up against the rangehood, you might be able to get away with a rangehood with a width = the width of the range. Unless...do you plan to grill or do high-heat cooking (e.g., stir-fry, frying in general, or even a lot of browning of meat)? If so, stick with the 6" wider rangehood. Other comments: Your kitchen really isn't wide enough for truly functional island -- you need about 13" more space to have sufficient aisles to allow you to be able to move around in the Kitchen with the island in the middle. The bare minimum needed: . 25.5"D Sink counters + 45"W aisle + 27"D island + 42"W aisle + 30"D refrigerator/freezer = 169.5" (5.5" more than what you have) (the 45" aisle is so you can have the DW open and still slip b/w it and the island.) 42" aisles are the minimum recommended for a one-person kitchen; 48" for two or more people. . Remember, though, that 48" wide aisles on all sides are better if you plan on having more than one person working in the Kitchen at the same time (two or more cooking or prepping or cleaning up or getting a snack, etc.) So, 169.5" + 3" + 6" = 178.5" (14.5" more than what you have) If you reduce the aisle b/w the refrigerator & island to 45", then 178.5" - 3" = 175.5" (12.5" more than you have) <== this is the bare minimum I recommend . Also, 27" is really a bit shallow for a working island, it's better at 30"D, with 36"D even better. Adding another 3" to the depth of the island: 178.5" + 3" = 181.5" (17.5" more) <== this is what I would prefer overall . Do you need to have cabinets/counters on both sides of the Kitchen? To be honest, right now those counters b/w the refrigerator and range are wasted space since they're not in a good place for a work zone. Would you be willing to switch the sink and range walls and eliminate the cabinets/counters on the left wall? If so, you could have an island with seating: . 30"D refrigerator/freezer + 48"W aisle b/w perimeter and island + 42"D island + 44"W aisle behind the seats = 164" ... exactly what you have right now! (13'8" = 164") I would KEEP the prep sink to make the island functional instead of just a barrier b/w primary work zones. E.g., right now, the island is a major "barrier island" b/w the refrigerator and the perimeter sink -- which will be your only sink if you eliminate the prep sink in the island. The island prep sink is the main thing that allows this Kitchen to be functional. If you take it out, you will have a very unpleasant place to work. Refrigerator & Freezer: Are these going to be true built-in appliances? Not counter-depth (CD) or standard-depth (SD), I mean built-in? I'm asking b/c if they are not going to be true built-in and, instead, are going to be counter-depth, then keep in mind that the majority of counter-depth refrigerators and freezers are actually 30" or more deep when you count the doors & handles. "Counter-depth" only refers to the refrigerator (or freezer) carcass -- the box only. The doors & handles add additional depth. The reason they're deeper is that the doors & handles of CD (and SD) refrigerators/freezers need to stick out past the surrounding counters, cabinets, walls, etc., to allow them to open fully. Standard-depth are even deeper (usually closer to 36"D). If they are CD, then you will need to add another 3" or so to the 13" I discussed above (so, 16" more). I'd move the DW to the right of the sink to get it out of the Prep Zone b/w the range and sink. Even with a prep sink in the island allowing the island to be the primary Prep Zone, that space b/w the range and wall sink will still function as a secondary Prep Zone. (You haven't told us about yourselves, so I don't know if both you and your husband cook, if you have children you will eventually be teaching how to cook & cleanup, etc.) . Let me see what I can come up with for you.
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All the previous posts make good points, and some of them are incorporated in the following plan. Since the DW is to the right of the sink (as you face it), I'd put wide drawers to the left of the cooktop, to make unloading dishes easier. Helpers can also gather dishes to set the table, without entering your primary prep zone. Moving the fridge down will leave space for the ovens to the left, with a ROTS pantry to the right, so food storage is on the same wall. If the oven stack does not have the MW included, the MW can go to the left of the ovens. If MW is in the oven stack, the ovens and fridge can move up a bit more, with a wider pantry. Landing space for the fridge would be on the island. Even if you don't change the layout significantly, I'd suggest all base drawers for extra storage. With 5ft between the island and the cooktop counter, you could also add some counter space by making the counters on that wall extra deep, but keep in mind that you'd need a deep range hood. NKBA guidelines New to Kitchens? Read me first. Discussions--Extra-deep counters Discussions--All drawer bases (It doesn't look as if my plan drawing is posting--if it doesn't show up, I'll try again later.)
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lavender_lass
11 years ago
I'm a big fan of the L-shaped kitchen, when it's open on two sides to other rooms. Since you have a wall on one side and open on the other...if it were me, I'd do the U-shpae with a small peninsula. Just enough room for two to three stools and some nice prep space facing the other room.

If you keep the L-shape, it will be very similar to what you have now...with an island. Unless someone is sitting at the island, you'll be facing the wall, when you prep. With the peninsula, you'd be facing your (breakfast nook?) and/or anyone sitting at the stools. Just my two cents :)
jjnv
Original Author
11 years ago
Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts with me. It's really helpful. I just got another idea based on L shape. The blank wall in the kitchen back to a huge enclosed laundry room. I am thinking about cutting a hole on that wall and putting an wall oven/microwave combo there. My contractor said he could do that. But my husband thinks it would be wield to have an oven in the middle of a blank wall. Has anyone seen that kind of design?

herbflavor, I'd love to hear about creative ways to get quality cabinets for less. We used Decora cabinets for my current kitchen and love it. But the dealer quoted me a price that is about 16k with even the lowest price wood (oak), door style and finish for doing an U shape Decora kitchen. I'd love to learn the best way to shop for cabinets. It seems so time consuming. You have to sit for hours before a number is presented. I wish there is a price index for cabinets :-)

The existing cabinets are okay, but the construction is not very good. I don't think it is worth painting them since we are not very handy. We have to pay someone to paint them.
clarygrace
11 years ago
The kitchen looks to be a good size and congrats on your purchase!

Just my two cents -- I know many don't like this option, but have you thought of adding a good sized island that can accommodate a cooktop/rangetop and then use the existing space where the range is for the wall ovens and microwave? I agree, I would definitely not sacrifice pantry space.

We just completed our kitchen with two islands and the main one houses the cooktop. I prefer this setup instead of cooking at the perimeter wall, as I don't like having my back to my family and guests when prepping/cooking. Our main island is large enough (10' x 42") for prep and cooking and then some. The second island is for breakfast and entertaining.

Cheers!
herbflavor
11 years ago
particularly if you stick with the U plan=all those cabs will be sandwiched together-you can get RTA flat packed sent to your door. Try Scherrs or Barkers-the latter can give you an online quote. these are good cabinets.Use graph paper and figure out what cabinets go where-plug it in and see what you get for the best you desire-drawers! Cheaper carcasses can be had from Ikea but the sizes are limited-can be done though-and you can get better doors from Scherr's. this is your starting point. Repurpose the glass doors[paint them??] on newer carcasses for the wall?? I would start with something like quartersawn oak with the factory furniture finish from Barkers for the base-it's a good finish-and maybe switch to a paint grade door for the uppers-you could easily have the uppers painted for you. or stick with the same quartersawn oak for the uppers-but just get a couple main dish cabs and leave some blank wall for open shelves. If this all comes in affordable-you could have the kitchen designer help do an island with detail because you've saved on the perimeter. If you liked that white kitchen-another way to price is paint grade on the perimeter and let the designer do a darker stained wood island and have that match the tall pantry etc over on the right. I don't think you realize how easy this all would be/why? bcause the configuration is straightforward-the walls are in-you are replacing. the redesign is only in your colors/finishes and adding the island. Put the thoughts on the look you desire-you can easily get the price to where you wish it to be.....you must be thorough in searching on the internet
though and then access local hanydmen with paint/install/etc, if you folks are not super DIY'ers. Take that white kitchen expanded to the U shape with some sort of island in the foreground[not sure about sizes on that issue]...really pretty -and your floor is already in!
lavender_lass
11 years ago
That island may be a little too big for your space. What about a work table, instead? You could still have seating, but it would be more flexible. Maybe something like this?
{{!gwi}}From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

If you still want to include an oven/baking area on that back wall, it should fit. Just be sure to leave enough room that your fridge is easy to open. If you're redoing the cabinets, I'd move the fridge towards the range just a bit...and leave a spacer, so you can open your door for easier cleaning. Hope this helps :)
jjnv
Original Author
11 years ago
herbflavor,

Thanks a lot for the links. You just opened the door to another world for me. I am excited and ready to get some quotes online.

Lavender_lass,

What a nice kitchen! Do you know where to get a table like that?

clarygrace, our kitchen is actually open to the breakfast area. Originally I tried to figure out if there is any way to tie these two areas together. But since the breakfast area is open to the rest of the house, my KD said it is better to keep them separate. The common area of the house is wide open with 50 ft cross. I still don't know how to arrange the space. It is the opposite of our current colonial house where we have distinct separate living, dining, family, and kitchen area.
herbflavor
11 years ago
Omit the cabinet to the left of kitchen window when you replace...it doesn't look right squished in there when you look from this angle. good spot for open shelves,or a reduced depth single door cabinet,for some usability. And when you start figuring cabinets to the right of kitchen window,better to leave some clearance at the side of the window. something curious....the dinette windows look really good in their style and sizes,and go well with the side door,which looks good...but the kitchen window looks different...a slider-older? or a new replacement vinyl? The question is raised-is the kitch window remaining? you would want to know for budgetary reasons and figure out what else might slip in there if you redo it.[the dinette is nice-it's waiting for the table!]
gr8daygw
11 years ago
You could put a drawer type microwave in the island if you have enough depth. I have even seen ovens in the island if it is big enough to handle it. I have a double wall oven and hardly ever use the bottom one so if it were my second oven I'd have no qualms about putting it in the island. The drawer microwaves are pretty awesome. Sharp makes one in two different sizes 24 and 30 they are the same size on the inside just different facing on the outside.
jjnv
Original Author
11 years ago
I got quote back from Scherrs. It was over $13k for the U-Shape :-(, not much less than the Decora kitchen. I also tried to build a kitchen online at the Barker's website. It looks like I can definitely do it under $10k even with finished doors.

I came across some really good looking Ikea kitchen pictures while searching for Barker reviews. I am going to the store check them out this weekend. Do I need to use Ikea designer and installers? I found some online that charges $150 to $400 for design. I need to decide if I want to use Ikea first.
lavender_lass
11 years ago
I've never used Ikea, but Sarah Richardson (designer on HGTV) uses them quite a bit. Here's a picture of her farmhouse kitchen remodel :)
{{!gwi}}From Cottage house plans
jjnv
Original Author
11 years ago
I just love the kind of Ikea kitchens that do not scream IKEA :-) Some of them are so pretty and nice.

Thanks for sharing the picture.
tracie.erin
11 years ago
Check out brickmanhouse's kitchen for another awesome IKEA kitchen.

Sarah Richardson has IKEA cabs sprayed custom colors at auto-body shops a lot.. that yellow island must have been done. If my DH didn't want to build our cabinets, we would totally go IKEA.

JJNV, you do not need to use IKEA designers if you post your layout here, and you don't need to use the installers unless you don't want to put them together and install them yourself.

Here is a link that might be useful: brickmanhouse's Finished Kitchen: Circa 1840 Working Farmhouse, IKEA Budget Reno

Design options U Shape or L shape?

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