Congratulations! 6 boys... I'm in awe. I am thankful for my mixed genders and really respect and feel for those who have all one sex, especially boys.

The KD fit ALL the appliances on the L?! That must have been SO crowded! I like this plan. Of course, it's a lot like ours, so I consider it well-tested. :-)

I really think you may want 2 dishwashers someday... If you don't put them in now, maybe put a 24" cabinet on the other side of the sink where you can add one?

You have your dbl ovens drawn at 24"... They'll be 30'?

I have my baking counter across the aisle from my island. We use the Kitchen Aid mixer at the counter, and often roll dough and load pans on the island across the aisle. We have a 4 ft aisle and no seating on that side of the island, so it's very convenient. If you have seating you can shove all the way under the overhang, or can move out of the way easily, your set-up should work similarly.

As far as the configuration on that wall, will your fridge be able to open if you have right next to the wall? Which way will the door swing? It's close enough to the island to use it as landing space, and also you could use the counter across... by the stove.

I like the proximity of ovens and fridge to the cooking area, but depending on door swing, you might end up with a dent in the door if it opens against the oven handle or door. If you ever move things from stove to oven, or want to keep an eye on baking while you cook at the stove, the ovens are in a good spot. But I might consider moving them to the end of the row. You could also consider moving the fridge to that other end, so it's closer to the dining and family rooms.

I would do as we did, and place the prep sink on the corner of the island so it's just as handy to the baking area as the cooking area... It can even be shared if someone is cooking and someone is baking... or even prepping a salad or whatever.

I don't know if I hit all your questions or concerns. Let me know if I missed.

I read through again.

The green island plan is definitely preferable, IMO. In the blue, I don't like the seat on the cleanup side, and you neglected to leave leg room, so there really isn't room for 4. In the green, the 4 will fit if you slide the seats a bit to the left on the baking side, but you already have the room.

I don't think you can lengthen the island toward the dining room unless you're willing to widen the doorway.

I will envy the size of your hutch!!! What will you have between it and the dishwasher? I like having my dish storage right next to the dw.

2 more things:

What kind of cooktop will you have? Be sure you have room for large pots and pans to share it. MORE than 2 large burners. I fought having only 2 large burners on 30" electric ranges until we moved into this house 4 years ago... It was the top problems to remedy in the new kitchen.

REALLY consider having your window at counter height and bumping it out a bit (like 6"), so the counter extends back further behind your sink, and the window isn't constantly covered with little water spots. My husband said it would've been so simple to do at the framing stage, but not something he wants to change now that so many things would be affected. It's number 1 on the list of things I wish I'd done differently.

No expert here. Just wanted to say congrats on your new baby(babies)! Did you have twins?

Rhome- Thanks for the feedback! Actually it was the house designer who had everything cramped. I know him & he only uses a kitchen to eat or a cold drink out of the fridge:) I finally decided to give up trying to get him to see my idea on kitchen layout. Not one plan came from him without a corner, upper cabinet. He just didn't "get-it," even with my two inspiration pictures (showing the same).

I'll try to address everything. I do like "bumped out" kitchen windows & will look into that option.

I haven't purchased a cooktop, but will remember your suggetions. The stove in this rental home has 3 tiny burners and 1 medium sized. I will so love my new space!

Between the dish hutch & dish washer will be storage of some sorts...just need the space to allow for trim, etc. Perhaps the hutch can go over further. I haven't worked out the kinks at all with our cabinet guy.

Great idea about planning for a 2nd dishwasher. I know it isn't budgeted now, but the option for the future would be great.

Good catch on the oven size!

Also, THANKS A MILLION....the fridge would never have worked there and I didn't realize it. The doors would have been impossible. In our last home we had the fridge in the middle, flanked by double ovens and a pantry cabinet on the other side. 4 years and NOT an issue with the fridge doors and oven doors, until one day...my MIL and FIL.......(one went for cream and one went to get the pizza out of the oven)...BAM...:(

So, I'm thinking the fridge and double ovens will need to change places or back to one of your thoughts about moving the fridge to the other end of that run (where the baking area starts on the current plan). Then I have the fridge across from the island, but also the stools will be there. The stools can slide under the island to get out of the way, so that could work?

Thinking that the prep sink will go in the corner.

Do you have garbage containers built in your cabinets? Was thinking I would want them by the island sink and the clean-up sink.

Yes, the green plan is what I plan to use. I did notice that the stools would have to move down for that to work...you have a good eye.

How long is your baking center?

Any opinions on the 5 foot arched opening going into the family room?

Thank you so much Rhome, I greatly appreciate your feedback!!!

Anyone have any others suggestions?! Thanks!

I would move the fridge over a few inches (with a spacer) so you can open the doors all the way, for cleaning. I really like your baking area, but I would move the ovens to the other end, so you could use the baking area, as a landing place for the fridge, too.

Since you'll have less people standing in front of the oven, with the door open...staring inside (blocking traffic) I'd put the oven behind the stools, rather than the fridge! :)

This is weirdly difficult to say in english, but two people can't share the corner knee space like that. Each person needs a space about 15 inches deep and 2 feet wide under the counter - so there needs to be a large gap of about 15 inches at the corner. If you set up a couple of kids squished right up at the corner of a table, you'll see what I mean. Actually, if you have a 48" wide dining table, try seating spouse + 3 kids in the same spacing as shown above.

I think you could make the island a little bit bigger by stretching it 6" towards the ovens and 6" towards the dining room door. Also consider doing counterintelligence (under counter fairly invisible supports) instead of the legs - it will get you 6 to 9 more inches of space for stool positioning.

Most refrigerators need to have their doors beyond the cabinet line - the doors actually open in front of the cabinets. Plus they need some room to the wall side for a couple of reasons - to avoid the door trim, to have the handles clear the wall for full use of drawers inside the refrigerator and to avoid the door or its handles continually banging up against the wall. As drawn, unless you're spending more than $3k on the ref, it will only work IF the ref is a single door and if the door handle is on the wall side and it opens away from the garage entry.

Moving it by sliding everything over a little and inserting a pull out pantry or small utility cabinet or 9" wide filler pullout or simply start the run with the ovens instead would all work. And any would stop the pile-up in front of ref blocking the garage door during grocery restocking.

Good catch about the aisle on the stove side, Bmore. Mommy, I have 36" between my rangetop and my island and it's surprisingly roomy. When pivoting back and forth from prep to cooking, having it closer is nice. That would give you almost a full foot to lengthen the island without crowding more toward the dining room.

I like the 5' arch to the dining room, but didn't want the island encroaching closer and making a too-tight path around the island corners and anyone seated. The stretch toward the cooktop, instead, would eliminate that risk.

My baking counter is 4 ft. It'd be nice if longer, but I'm glad to have it. I'd be a little leery about having the ovens where you show the fridge if kids might come zipping through that doorway from the mud room and not notice the open oven and Mom trying to navigate hot food out of it. I think I'd feel better having it a couple feet from that doorway, where there is room to dance around each other, if ever necessary, because you'll be across from the stove aisle. I hope that makes sense. I think it's also what Bmore already said. So I think I'd go 18" broom closet (or maybe baking pan and dish storage), oven, 4 ft baking counter, and fridge nearest the dining/family end.

I was just thinking about the dw and hutch, that you could shift the dw and sink down toward the hutch, and make room for the 2nd (future) dw on the right, and still have some other drawers on that side. It would mean moving the window, perhaps. But that's what I'm used to in my kitchen, so that's what sounds good!

I have one built-in trash and recycle pullout. It's in the corner of the island closest to the cooktop, but facing the main sink, so it's handy to the prep area, cooking area, and to the cleanup for scraping plates. I always meant to put some sort of trash and/or compost under the prep sink, but we've made do fine with this set up.

MMMMmmmm, more things to think about...good! I completely understand the corner seating with the island. I have an extra foot on the one side, but sounds like I should have more than that. I could almost lengthen the island and put 3 stools on the longer side and then 1 at the end. However, having two on each side is nice for many reasons. I must admit that the island legs are very important to me and I would really try everything to keep them:)

Back to the fridge and oven wall. Would there be reason (for function) to have the baking counter nearest the small archway that leads to the mud room area? Then the double ovens and then the fridge. I was wondering if having the fridge and ovens directly across from the island might function well? Or else I completely agree and see the reasoning for adding something next to the ovens, beside the archway.

Rhome, it took me a bit, but I understand what you are saying about the two dishwashers now. I was thinking in my mind that they would for some reason, need to be on each side of the sink. I wanted to let you know that I read more of your blog about the wonderful home that your family built, together. It was quite inspiring for us...we will be doing most of our home too. Thank the Lord, I too have a very talented Hubby. This is our second time building our "forever" home and I still can't believe we are at this again (Forever---This Time). I love how you made your dining room expandable for future generations, that is wonderful.

If you are looking at a bumped out window, I would suggest a garden window. Herbs all year to compliment your garden! I've seen pics with just an extended countertop for the bottom and also more like a regular window starting a few inches above the counter.

Oops. We had some kind of miscommunication, because I did mean you to have dishwashers on each side of the cleanup sink. That's the only way to reach both from the sink, and sometimes, both at once.

I meant move the current one next to the hutch, the sink next to it, and then slide a spot for a future dishwasher on the left of the sink, with the extra cabinet that you had between dw and hutch to the left of it all.

I hope that makes more sense.

Having the baking center next to the doorway puts you in the walkway. Also, puts the oven in a spot that's harder to keep an eye on from the stove and prep area. It's all preference and priority and your opinion for your kitchen, though.

I'm wondering, though, if you got what I meant about lengthening the island toward the cooktop, so you could easily have the 2 on the end and 2 on the side. Don't want to push, just wanted to make sure you'd caught it, since you didn't mention.

The bumped out windows that would be my inspiration are MamaDadaPaige's and ErikaNH's. Doesn't require a special window or much room. I've seen garden windows that leak or have other problems, so I'm leery of those.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread w/ Erika's window and link to MamaDadaPaige's

I would definitely plan for 2 DWs. I just have 2 boys, and while we do have guests, family and parties where we definitely need them, we use them on a daily basis too. With your larger crew, I would say 2 DWs or all hand washing will be the only way to keep there from always being a stack of dirty dishes in the sink or on the counter. Compare the cost of a cabinet with drawers or drawer plus door to the DW and you might be surprised that it doesn't mean spending a lot more. And definitely on either side of the sink.

I differ with rhome and probably would put the ovens at the end by the pantry. I know not everyone is comfortable with that arrangement, but I have something similar now and had it in my last two kitchens -- 16 years total and all the boys' growing up years. In all those years, not a single close call and only one or two times I might have said "Slow down, I've got the oven open!" Ovens are closed most of the time and with the fans now, you can hear them operating. Mine smells as soon as it starts heating up. and if you are standing there, as you usually are when the oven door is open, it's even harder to make an approach and not see the open door. Now, if you leave the oven door open while heated and walk away, maybe you could have a problem. I also have no problem tellking kiddos there in no running or playing inthe kitchen --a good safety measure for many reasons (pots and pans of hot food, heavy things, sharp things, etc.). I'd also rather have the ovens closer to the cooktop

I would consider the fridge on the dining room end. Either that or splurge on some fridge drawers in the hutch or dining room itself. It could be a long run to make from table to fridge several times a meal for more milk, etc.

My baking area is 4 feet, but I also use the cooktop next to it and the island across from it for landing, cooling, cookie sheet loading and sometimes use the island for kneading. I do use the island for most rolling because I like having more room. Rhome doesn't like the island seat on the clean-up side -- I'm not too keen on seat on the baking side. I don't have the luxury of space enough in my kitchen to even consider island seating -- barely the island, so I jealously guard my work space. ;-)

You asked about the 5 foot arch -- are there other wide arches in the house? Are you thinking of making it straight? Making it narrower (a 4 ft opening is still a wide passage way)? Questioning the arch (if it ties in with other arches in the house, I'd keep it, if not -- lose it).

I do like the idea of lengthening your island.

Congratulations on the growing family. You will have wonderful times with that crew in your new kitchen.

I wanted to talk about enlarging the island.

I don't have much time right now, and I am not very good on design, but if this were mine I'd make the island a foot longer toward the dining room IF that leaves a four foot passage on each side. I think that gives you 6 1/2 feet for the seating run on the baking area side of the island. You can fit 3 stools in that space and leave a little space on the end. Round the ends of the countertop on the DR side.

Also, I would definitely use 30'' deep cabinets on the sink/hutch side of the island with drawers beneath. A huge amount of storage here.
Be sure your cabinet builder makes the drawers full depth, not the standard depth.

As I think someone suggested, you have an awfully wide space between the baking center and the island--6 1/2 feet. If you widen the island in that direction another foot it would give you another foot of cabinets on the prep sink side , but it would make the island six feet wide. You might have to crawl up on it to clean the middle!! However, if you can do this, I bet you could seat 6 around the island, particularly if they are friendly siblings.

Finally, I would hate to waste the 12'' of space on the range top side of the door from the garage. If you don't want cabinets coming to the edge of the door trim (I would), you might consider a tall cookbook shelf there.

Have fun! You will get soo many good ideas from the gurus here. They are wonderful.

Sandra

Rhome doesn't like the island seat on the clean-up side -- I'm not too keen on seat on the baking side.

Truth be told, I don't like it on either side! ;-) I was kind of hoping/ assuming, if there was a big baking project going on, seaters would be helping or shooed away from that side of the island. I am also of the belief that it's my working spot, so my island doesn't have seating, except for the one, helper spot that DH insisted I keep. It turns out to be a good place to store the stool that's so easy to drag out to reach higher shelves. ;-)

My solution to having seating in the kitchen was to shorten the island and add a small table to keep work and possible books, papers, and games out of the splash zone. But my kids were 3 1/2 to almost 20 when we moved in, so maybe that makes a difference, and our kitchen is about a foot longer...with 2 doors to the dining room instead of a wide doorway, and that gave me a spot in the center to tuck the table.

I will certainly and happily bow to Lascatx's experience with the oven. I have been influenced many years by the folks here who try to keep ovens out of a doorway. Actually, mine is at the end of the run, not actually in the entrance doorway, but where people come through the entrance and around the corner, so with less visibility than you'll have. That adds about 18" for the baking center, so I'm all for that!!!

I forgot to offer best wishes for you and the babies.

Speaking of babies, I found that with a prep sink, I didn't need 2 basins in the main sink, so I'd recommend a large single sink instead. Great for bathing babies, and for entertaining a toddler at eye level as you work in the kitchen. I just used to pop a clingy or fussy kid into the sink of water with some measuring cups, and they got clean and kept happy. ;-)

Not that I don't think that you don't have some tricks up your sleeve by now...

Congrats on the new baby! I bow to you, I couldn't imagine having 4 more boys. I have to disagree with lascatx regarding the ovens in the doorway. IME, that would be a disaster waiting to happen. You may have 6 attentive, well behaved boys who always listen and never run, but what about their friends?

Full disclosure: my opinion is informed by living with my ADHD DS1. He was like a ping pong ball before we got the ADHD under control. It didn't matter how many times he was told not to run, he bounced everywhere. By the time he was 8, he'd had 4 visits to the walk-in/ER for bleeding head wounds. He has a scar in the crease over his right eye(bar height table,) one on the edge of his left eyebrow(neighbor's kitchen wall,) one towards the top of his head(wall,) and one at the back of his head towards his neck(kitchen table.) If we had had an oven in a pathway, it'd have been burns instead of stitches. YMMV.

It looks like a great space. Looking forward to seeing the kitchen come to life.

Thanks, so much! I appreciate your time, suggestions and shared experiences! Thanks for the baby congrats:) First chance to get to the computer today. The baby has been very fussy (not twins, just never updated username). I'm thankful I have some baby experience, as this baby has been a little more challenging. Though he is a sweetie and it has been amazing watching his brothers "melt" over him. Our oldest are 13 and 11 and they are wondereful with him!

Rhome- Got ya on the dishwashers & it makes sense now. Also, I do undertstand lengthening the island. I'm getting nervous, thinking about cutting down to 36 (between island and cooktop), but I trust you! Though, I was thinking about splitting 6 inches each way, LOL ! I actually have both of those (window pictures)in my files for inspiration...love them!

Lascatx- Thanks for your help & suggestions. Yes, I love arches and we will have others in the house. I was confusing about the 5 foot arch. I was wondering if I would regret having the opening from kitchen to family room, only 5 feet wide. I'm coming from our past homes, that the kitchen and family room have been one, open room. We want the rooms less open and more seperated/closed off from each other in this home. I know, against popular trend. I have found it is very hard for boys to stay focused in a kitchen with the commotion of an entire open house concept:) I was panicking, thinking we should widen that archway opening. I hate to give up the "baking area" space and think the 5 feet will work out well.

Sandra- Thanks for the idea of using that extra space under the island. I was just thinking that would be "wasted" space. Wow, that island could become a "continent."

Laxsupermom- Ahhh, I hope the ER visits are a thing of the past and glad to hear your son is doing better.

Gosh, let me address things I forgot...

I'm almost going back to the ovens being at the end of the run, next to the archway that leads to mud/garage/laundry areas. I've spent the day thinking about how I use the oven. I'm not saying, something can't or won't happen with the oven location. I realize walkways and an approaching entryway could lead to an unexpected boy running past. I have become so careful about watching for boys when using the oven, but I know "things still happen." Also, the older ones are using the oven & are definitely NOT as careful about looking out for others. We are pretty good about them not being allowed to run around the island. They can all help in there, but it is not a play area. Also, I'm not constantly in the oven like I would be the cooktop. However, I will keep thinking and talk to dh because we have not had this exact layout before.

Rhome, also glad I'm not the only one putting kids in sinks:) However, I mainly use the one in my bathroom while trying to get myself ready!

Speaking of sinks...I need to try to get 3 of the boys ready for bed. Thanks for continued help, we are getting close & I'm feeling so excited about our future kitchen (the most important room in our new home)!

Splitting the difference would be OK, maybe, but I don't think it's necessary. Just make sure you leave 36" after you include counter overhang, etc, to giver yourself more peace of mind about the size. This is my 36" aisle full of adult sized children and big dogs lying in the work area, lol:

If I were designing this for me, and IF I were going to make the island wider/longer, I would give serious thought to a second run of cabinets parallel to the sink/hutch wall. Under the island, recessed whatever width needed for seating clearance. This run could be shallower than the standard 24'' if needed.

Yes, it would be a pain to access. But great storage for seasonal dishes or other VERY rarely needed stuff. I have summer/winter dishes that are rotated, for instance. I put the off-season ones in an inaccessible spot, because I only have to get into it twice a year..

(But I would also make the main cabs 30'' deep. I envy people with 30'' deep storage drawers!)

I am pretty sure I have seen people use this space under their counters and behind seating clearance for storage, maybe for bookcases? Can't remember for sure.

Sandra

If I were designing this for me, and IF I were going to make the island wider/longer, I would give serious thought to a second run of cabinets parallel to the sink/hutch wall. Under the island, recessed whatever width needed for seating clearance. This run could be shallower than the standard 24'' if needed.

Yes, it would be a pain to access. But great storage for seasonal dishes or other VERY rarely needed stuff. I have summer/winter dishes that are rotated, for instance. I put the off-season ones in an inaccessible spot, because I only have to get into it twice a year..

(But I would also make the main cabs 30'' deep. I envy people with 30'' deep storage drawers!)

I am pretty sure I have seen people use this space under their counters and behind seating clearance for storage, maybe for bookcases? Can't remember for sure.

Sandra

Hi there, momma of 7 here speaking (6 girls, one boy, all 11 and under). We went to 2 fridges a year ago and have never looked back. They live right next to each other (I think of it as an overgrown French door unit, sort of...). They have their own separate functions: one is primarily fresh fruits and veggies, and the other is mostly dairy products and leftovers, but it's nice that all the cold stuff lives together on the same wall. Especially for the occasional "the other fridge is full so I'm sticking ____ in this one for now..." I like them next to each other.

I'm wondering if you've given thought to an extra refrigerator? With a houseful of growing boys, I think that would be super-helpful. : )

Wow. GOOD point, Laughable! I don't see mention of a freezer. I hope you'll have a full freezer somewhere, Mommy, and room for an extra fridge, even if not inside the kitchen. At least another thing to plan and have room for "someday," which will come upon you soon.

We would have a hard time living without the extra fridge and the deep freeze. Gallons of milk fill the extra fridge...but, they don't stay filled for long:) DH loves the extra fridge in the garage rather than in the house and I actually do to. Weather permititng, DH and the boys are outside and this gives them a place for all their ice water, popsicles, etc. Also, it makes unloading groceries easy in the garage (stright to the fridge). I can see how nice having both in the house would be! If I have "overflow" produce, I have to be mindful that it is out there!

wow, congratulations! SIX boys? i haven't read the other responses but in case it hasn't been suggested already: you need a second dishwasher. at LEAST! and i'd definitely throw in one of the speed cook ovens with a family of that size. GL!