If there is more of this stone, I would ask them to redo it. It doesn't look like that big of a piece. Why did they make this mistake? Did they come out and template? When mine were done, the entire room was templated and then they cut the stone to match the template. Mine are so snug that they actally cut a little drywall away to tuck it in. I just don't think you want the gap. Even if you do tile there.

What did the installers say when they saw it?

(OT, remember my ds heading to school in a certain unnamed city? He decided to transfer back up here. Too much worry for him about the town and his safety. In fact while we were there last week retrieving him and moving him out, we watched them pull a body out of the river. They pulled one out the week he got there too! :o )

I would ask them to redo it too. I don't think you'll be happy with that.

Bee... Yikes! Body from the river...

Bee - my hometown? Yikes. I am very sorry to hear that. It is hard for me to keep up with what's going on down there. He could always try there location in Atlanta. LOL!

Those are actually 3 different spots in the countertop. One to the left of the range, one to the right and one on the end of the sink run. I will send you a pic of the entire run. It is basically 3 spots on an "L" and actually when I think about it, 3 different pieces of quartz.

He did template. When I asked the installers they said that they could see where I thought templating meant no gaps but they said their cutters only cut in straight lines. Makes me wonder how they did the cut outs for the sink, huh?

Yikes. It looks like they cut based on the depth of the cabinets rather than actually templating. The cabinet depths can vary a bit due to shimmming and/or the wall not being level, which is why they should have templated after the cabinets were installed. You may be able to cover the gap in the top with your backsplash, but not along the side where the counter meets the wall. Would just be caulked, I guess.

They did a template after the cabinets were installed.

So templating is supposed to prevent the gaps? There are very few places where the countertop actually meets the wall.

I should have said 3 different sections of quartz in my earlier post.

"they said their cutters only cut in straight lines"

they need new cutters? or why bother templating? just measure the cab depth, add an inch or so for overhang - and call it done.

I wouldn't accept those gaps in it.

Will your backsplash cover? That would help me determine whether it was worth the fight.

Maybe make a few calls and ask other fabricators in the area if when they template and cut they make sure the counter fits any wall irregularities?

Sorry you have these problems! Were these guys related to your cabinet guy? They seem to have the same "Close is close enough" attitude. Sheesh.

Thanks guys. I felt like a total idiot talking with the installer. Here I go again I guess with problems. I am glad I did not pay them even though they pushed me really hard for a check today.

i would ask for it to be redone, i would not be able to live with that gap

I think that's worth the good fight. Agree 100% with the others. After waiting this long and planning every teenie detail, I couldn't live with that. Every time I walked by it would just grind my gears so that steam would exit the ears (cartoon style of course). Templating is supposed to prevent gaps. I don't know anyone's house that has straight 90 degree angles due to settling, etc.

"they only cut in straight lines"

that's good.

Perhaps the straight line should have been further back and then do what my guys did, remove a little drywall to shove it in there snug.

"straight lines". Glad you didn't want any curves anywhere.

(OT,yes Your Hometown... but you know since I watch the Philadelphia news, I was surprised how the body incident really didn't bother me--I just asked the waiter for ketchup and my dh ordered another beer--of course the waiter ran off to see the action and my dh had to get the beer himself)

Here is a link that might be useful: news story about the incident

Odiegirl, I also agree they made a mistake. I am a bit more forgiving of mistakes since I am a do-it-yourselfer (not professionally by the way....just for my own home) and I guess I have more tendency to look at a problem and say, "ok, a mistake was made, now can it be fixed or do I have to start from scratch?" With that said, I noticed one other response asked if you have a backsplash in your plans. I assume there would be a lot of cost involved for your installer, and potentially a setback in your own timing as well as the potential that you may not find another piece of stone you like as well. See if your installer will give you a 4" backsplash as an alternative to a full redo. I had several walls in my kitchen that had irregularities so I planned for them by including a backsplash and it looks nice.

If that's the range slip/opening, I'd be tempted to let it be since the BS will cover the top and the side view is obscured by the range itself. If that's an end of a cabinet run, it has to be fixed somehow. I think a sliver of stone could be epoxied in place, or have the whole thing scribed (redone) to yield a tighter appearance.
Casey

That seems like a flat out mistake - it isn't like the piece fits front to back anywhere on that piece. If the other gaps are going to be concealed by the back splash I wouldn't worry about them. I am curious about how you intend to deal with the vertical gap between the cabinet and the wall - is it getting an end panel?

Be very glad you haven't already paid. (I made that mistake.)

Make them fix it. Either redo or splice in a piece. Don't let yourself be intimidated. Don't tell yourself you shouldn't care and it's fine. It's not acceptable, and you deserve a good job.

i'm so sorry you have to deal with this, odiegirl. :(

but they said their cutters only cut in straight lines

that sounds like they were handing you a line!

templating is done so you can get a good fit. that is not even close. i'm no expert, but that's unacceptable to me.

you were right to stand firm without giving them the check. well done.

I am sorry I am so late in responding. Unexpected company kept me away from my computer.

LOL, rhome. The one connection is a recommendation from my GC. I bet he won't back me up. I still need to talk with the cabinetmaker about a few things. Ugh.

I told the GC we need to put off the plumber on Monday, darn it! I was hoping for a useable sink on my b'day.

I did have a chance to talk with the countertop owner. He said that the machine just can't cut that precisely and up to a 3/8" gap is acceptable. (guess that is to him). He said the backsplash will cover the gaps. I did ask him about the ends. He mentioned something about epoxy but he kind of lost me after that. He is coming over Monday to chat.

I do plan on a tile backsplash and the good news is I chose quartz so I don't have to worry about finding another slab.

The end of the cabinet probably does need a piece of moulding. It seems to look worse than I remember after the initial install and you are right that it does not look good.

I am really disappointed to have problems right now. No response from the GC yet. I really don't want to just accept it just because I am sick of living in the basement.

bee - I am going to check out the link. My parents are too elderly to keep up with news. Glad you all got out safely. ;-)

I see some cabinet install and wall preparation errors that contribute to the counters fitting the way they do. Your cabinets should not have any gaps between the boxes and the walls. They should have either had an extended stile that was scribed to the space or scribe molding that covers the gap. It looks like the counter guys templated to the cabinets with 1/8" "wiggle" room (acceptible)rather than the actual wall to edge of oounter space with the wiggle room.

Also, either your walls are out of plumb, or your cabinets are out of plumb, and that's exaggerating the issue. You can tell this because the gaps are not uniform up and down. They are wider at the top than the bottom. And the gap is wider from the front to the back. So, something's off.

If the cabinets are perfectly level and the walls are not, then I'd fix the whole issue by installing the needed scribe molding which will cover the gap between the cabinet and the wall, and then float out the gap between the counters and wall with drywall setting compound. You aren't going to get much better than what you've got with the cabinets you started with and the walls you've got. The only way that the job could be redone is to cut the pieces larger and cut away the drywall in spots to seat it. With a L shaped counter, it's really tough to get the two counters square and looking nice if you aren't starting with close to square foundation of walls and cabinets.

3\8? I'm not a counter top fabricator but if that is an acceptable margin it appears I probably could be (well you might have to add another 1\8). If it touched the drywall somewhere you could understand but on the piece you showed they have had to pull the piece forward because it wasn't cut to the proper size - it doesn't even go to the back of the cabinet - the fact that the cabinet isn't flush to the wall here suggests that the wall bows and if a new piece is cut straight (your only option it would seem) and the right depth it will touch the drywall in the middle and you will probably have a space similar to the one on the cabinet on the ends. As you are putting in a back splash they could cut the new piece a smidge deeper and cut\shave away some of the drywall in the center to try to get the ends so they actually touch the drywall as other folks have mentioned.

I am sorry I must have cross posted. (I have had 6 kids at my house this afternoon and evening instead of the normal 2 - no sympathy from rhome expected). The section to the left of the stove is around 30'' wide so they could replace that piece independent of everything else. That one is the worst one.

I need to read carefully through your suggestions especially yours, live_wire_oak and caryscott. Maybe the GC needs to swing by on Monday as well.

I guess rhome had it right. Two "close is close enough" guys do not add up to success.

DH is very happy with the choice I made and that is such a relief. The kitchen does look great (if you don't look too close!).

If memory serves at one point your cabinets did have scribe moldings installed at some spots.

Should LWO return I wonder what her thoughts about the quality of the counter top job are (as it relates to that particular section, not the rest which sounds like it is probably OK)? They templated from the installed cabinets so they had to be aware that the cabinets were not flush to the wall - why not proceed in a way that might ameliorate the problem rather than compound it? Is that really an unreasonable expectation?

LWO's post wasn't up when I started mine - hence the repeat of her last suggestion.

Looks like the GC's response is "No Comment". Ugh...

I need to really think about it this weekend. I am bummed about another delay.

caryscott - I just wish at least someone had offered a little more precision in their work. DH is pretty cynical about it all at this point. I am not looking forward to having to explain to him what is wrong with it. Just like the cabinetmaker, all I will get is "That is standard practice" or "It is always done that way". I'm tired already.

I wish you guys lived next door and could just pop over!!!

I like Johnorange's suggestion.

Seems like ball's in their court. You just say: "There is a problem here. The gap is too large. What can we do about it" and just wait while they come up with an idea.

Silence is golden! You've got the money still.

Odiegirl - I am going through the same thing right now. My walls are out of square and there is a gap along the back of my counters. I got the same line about the cutters only cutting straight.

I'm not worried about the areas where the backsplash and window apron will cover. However, nothing will cover the wall on either side of the windows. I think there is room to push my counters back, but I don't believe they can be moved at this point (they are already caulked to the cabinets around the front edge and the seam is already epoxied at the sink).

We had a few ideas which may help you and maybe others can offer feedback about them. Where there will be no backsplash on the ends (if I am reading your post correctly), paintable caulk could cover the gap and then paint it the color of the wall. Also, you could feather it out with spackle, similar to what Live Wire Oak mentioned. This would be more difficult and involve more spackle dust (which I'm sure you love as much as I do).

I have a question, though. What exactly is involved in templating? Desertsteph made me realize that maybe my counters weren't properly templated. My guys only measured (after the cabinets were installed) and then added 3/4" for overhang. They measured the depth in various spots to account for the wall being out of square, but I guess that didn't help in the end, did it?

They are coming back this morning to finish the install and I haven't discussed the gap with them yet. Maybe I should make a separate thread for fast help.

Anyway, I hope it works out for you. If nothing else, maybe you'll take comfort in the fact that someone else is going through the same thing!

The man who templated for my counters measured and made wooden rectangular patterns (templates) of each section. These templates were put on the slabs later to show the cutter where to cut. I was able to go and place the templates on the slabs so that certain features of the granite are where I wanted them. I don't have any other experience with granite countertops, but I would assume that this is the standard way that it is done.

kitchenkrazed09 - I am so sorry to hear that you have the same issues.

The guy that templated used little strips of thin wood? I don't really know what they were. I am sooooo glad that I did not pay them yet.

I asked for a meeting on Monday. I was thinking about asking him if he would send a prospective client to my house. I probably won't but it would great to see what he would say. Does he actually think someone would look at it and hire him?

Right now I want the stone the left of the range replace and probably the right side as well. There is a seam on the right so that piece just runs straight to the wall. The piece on he left never touches the wall and the one on the right only does so at the corner. I don't know what to do about the rest of the sink run.

More thinking...

Maybe differences in widths of gaps and ability to follow the line of walls or whatever depend on the type of counter material, or on the way templating is done.... I don't know enough about it to answer that. What I can tell you is that our soapstone people templated to within 1/16 inch. So, to my eyes, 3/8 inch seems like a chasm to me. Isn't that an awful lot of space to fill with caulk?

Odiegirl13-

Your project should NOT have gaps at the outside ends where the stone SHOULD be TIGHT against the wall (as all three of your pics illustrate)

do not pay the balance until this is rectified

the gaps can be filled with epoxy - colored to match the stone, and if the guy that does it is a "maestro" (reeeeeeally good) you will never notice it, however, the stone SHOULD HAVE been cut tight to the walls. This tells me that either the templates were "off" or the sawyer cutting the job was.... well, let's just say IMHO - "sloppy" - Not trying to be "self promoting" here, but..... I NEVER EVER install stone that isn't DEAD NUTS TIGHT to the walls ON THE OUTSIDE ENDS like you are showing.... I'm just saying......

Anyways - give your Fabricator an honest chance to make things right - let him try filling the ends with color matched epoxy, THEN see how you like it - but DO NOT PAY IN FULL UNTIL YOU ARE 100% SATISFIED!!!!

Remember - YOU are the one that will have to live with the end product - nobody else - so MAKE SURE that YOU are HAPPY before you pay in full.......

HTH

kevin

On the caulking front Red-Devil has a product where you can tint the caulk to match your paint(using your latex paint). Not sure how good a colour you get and the kit is a bit expensive but it seemed like you might get a better more durable result than by painting paintable caulk in some situations.

kevin - thank you so much for your input.

Those walls are split into three pieces, one to the left of the stove, one 25'' deep piece on the right that runs straight to the wall. The sink wall run starts after that. He could re-cut the one on the left (after remeasuring of course). I am debating the other two. The one on the right does not touch the wall at all. The sink wall is better and does fit tight in spots along the way but not at the end.

Is it reasonable to ask him to recut the two range wall pieces? That is kind of what my gut is telling me to do. I guess it can't hurt to ask but I am not terribly optimistic.

When I showed the installers the issues on the ends of the sink/range wall they said, "Oh, you won't notice it because of the door trim". I will always notice it.

The sink is not perfectly cut but I can live with it. One of the corners overhangs instead of being flush. It is not really noticeable. Seems like they could have cut that better though.

caryscott - Thanks for the tip on Red-Devil. I will look into that.

I have thought a lot about what all of you have said, especially kevin. I think I am just going to show the owner the ends and see what he says. I will tell him that I expect the ends to meet the wall. (Trying to pump myself up here). I wonder why he would defend the installation when he did not do the templating and has not even seen it.

I was opening the drawers this morning, just looking around, and I found out that they did not put the top drawers back in correctly. They hooked one side and then just shoved it in. Annoying...

Wish me luck tomorrow. I warned DH not to just breeze in and say everything is fine.