thanks - I tried everything to get them to show up.

What is under the high section on the side? Oven?
Do you have any room to make the island deeper - push the seating back a bit? What is the clearance between the island and the refrigerator wall?

Just a thought: I'd rather have the trash pullout next to the sink, on the right, making that angled cabinet a straight one. Then you can have 2 banks of drawers to the left of the DW.

What's on the far left end? Is it a pullout or tray storage? (Either is great; just checking that it's not just filler.)

What's behind the seating on the island?

{{!gwi}}

What are the widths of your aisles? I just noticed that your DW and range are across from each other, so that might cause problems if you wanted to have doors from each open at the same time. That might not happen often, but I wanted you to be aware of it. You don't want your sink directly behind the range either, so it might take some changes on the island AND the range wall to adjust that - although I know you said you like the range wall as is.

Thanks for the notes - that is my main concern with it - that the dishwasher or sink will be directly behind the range. I think that might be a problem.
The great room is directly behind the stools - no walls.

Nothing is under the higher side of the island, well a cabinet - my hubby is 6"6" so we thought having a raised area for him to help prep stuff would be nice and flow along with the height of the bar.

We have plenty of space to push the island out toward the great room.

How about pushing the island a little farther back and angling the ends to create a recessed area so the DW and sink are a bit farther from the range? One of the angled ends could be all bar height for a work area.

I don't like the seating inside the L shape because the person sitting there will feel boxed in.

This kitchen works just fine for a single person. How many will be using it?

Have you defined why you want an island--what is its purpose?

Which way will the food flow to the eaters?
Where do you anticipate that dirty dishes will await attention?

Where do you assume you will wash and chop veg, wash and pound meat, concoct sauces, etc? Imagine the physical presence of persons doing that and another person using the range.

I assume that the refrig. is on the side toward the eaters, yes? So you can access it from outside the kitchen as well as within the kitchen?

One thing that bothers me is that the sink is a throne for me more so than the range, and here, the throne is off center from the people at the island and there is only a relatively small space to its right where dishes, refrig items, and odd things will all compete for real estate.

You are correct--with all that space, your range door and dishwasher door face one another. I have lived with that config. for years, of necessity, but it's not a necessity for you. When one of those doors is open, it bisects a room until it is shut again. When both are open, it's awful, and usually occurs at the worst time, such as when the oven timer is ringing.

I'd put the main sink and range on the same wall and put a little sink on the island or under the microwave if you want water access closer to the family room. Then you can wash and chop at two sites, deal with dirty&clean dishes on the longest countertop with cupboards above, and have the island as a launch and receive site.

How much room do you have on the far side of your island? Can the whole thing be as deep as that odd part across from the microwave? I would make it all one level, and 4 ft deep, if you have the room...also rectangular, getting rid of the L shape and the odd angled cab by the sink. I would make sure it's no longer than the stove run of cabinets...From the rendering it looks like it might extend more toward the fridge wall.

The dw is directly at odds with the cook and the range door, so I'd want to put it on the other side of the sink.

Using the fridge as a reference, it looks like your main aisle is about 4 ft?

Here is that idea:

However...
I noted your username and think you could use more zone separation if you have family working in the kitchen with you. So here a couple more ideas thinking along those lines. I know you lose your symmetry, but I prefer C so that there is room for cleanup, cooking, and/or snacks, baking, etc. happening without the people being on top of each other.

Thanks again for all the help.
I dont bake but cook a lot so I am trying to find something that I love. I really like the look of the one level of bar area but my concern is that I cannot "reach" all the way across it to put plates in front of the bar stools. I like the look of a raised bar and was thiking of a half circle area coming out from the island toward the great room?

It is 4 feet bewtween the stove and island.
The formal dinning room is behind the wall with the fridge.
[IMG]http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae34/smeacham_bucket/kitchen.jpg[/IMG]

If you can reach to the back of your counters now, you can reach across to set a plate. I'm just under 5'4" and have no trouble reaching to the other side of my 4 ft island to set things down. I do go around to wipe it. A single level gives you much more workspace and more flexible space than the split heights would. Arcing it out like you suggest is certainly possible and would make conversation nicer and more comfortable for those seated.

Will your kids ever bake? The point was, though, not to specifically plan for baking, but to be able to fit more than one worker in the kitchen at a time.

My plan calls for an island that is the shape of a quarter circle. That gives 2 side for work area, and a nice curved section for seating. It seems like that shape would work well in your layout. But it may be hard for you reach across with plates, depending on the length of the one side.

Below is a link to the showroom display that inspired me, and another that has the angled side. Their island is 2 levels, but mine will be all one level.

http://www.keenerkitchen.com/images/cm-counter.jpg

Here is a link that might be useful: Link to island pic

I wouldn't worry about range and dishwasher opposite each other.

I have a VERY narrow kitchen, and the doors would totally clash--like, almost total overlap.

In 8 years, I have never wanted to open them both at the same time.

It's not like you leave the open door open, anyway.

As for standing at the range, and wanting to put tuff in the dishwasher? That doesn't happen that often, anyway.

The dishwasher gets used at cleanup, not during prep. And if something *is* going into the dishwasher during prep, it's almost *always* the cook himself/herself who is putting it in there.

I like the squared-off counter.

I like having the microwave oven off to the side as it is; that's brilliant.

personally, I like the raised area for sitting.

in fact, other than that angled corner (which I don't like), I mostly like your island.

But rhome410 is right about this:
"to be able to fit more than one worker in the kitchen at a time."

Remember that those people are usually doing different sorts of things. One is cooking on the range; the other is making salad w/ stuff from the fridge.

Also, look at prep spaces, and whether people standing at each of them will be in the same spot. (w/ the sink: there's some "standing at the sink" during prep, but not a whole lot--stuff gets rinsed for 2 minutes, and that's it. Maybe scraping a garbage into the sink disposal unit)

The standing during *prep* is being done at the stovetop, and even moreso in front of counter areas.

Look at a typical menu, one for everyday, and one for Big Party Events (esp. big party events). What items will other people help with, and where would they conveniently stand to do it?

Re the new suggested DW position--I wouldn't like this, i don't think--becasue the one time the dishwasher door STAYS open is at cleanup.

And at cleanup, my family is in and out of the fridge quite a bit--putting leftovers away, putting ketchup away, putting milk away, etc.

Plus we use the sink and the trash under it. So now the dishwasher is BETWEEN the sink and the fridge.

The DW/range clash is just not as problematic.

Also, if you eliminate the angled corner, you create more work space & landing zone by the sink. And that little L-shaped area can be the "make a salad while staying out of the grill cook's way" workspace.

it's also a nice workspace for stuff like microwaving, preparing platters or trays, etc.

Unless you think the space by the microwave would be enough, but the "no cabinets overhead" area would be really useful.

Here is your overall layout:

A friend of mine has a very similar space. Her island set up is similar to this (incorporated into your layout.) You have probably noodled over soooo many layouts, so just ignore this if it's one you've already rejected!:

{{!gwi}}

Talleysue, what you say may be true in your home and in a one-worker kitchen. For me, the problem isn't the range door vs the dw door...It's the cook vs the dw door. In my house the dw is very often open at the same time I am cooking...and I know Buehl has said she has the same situation... The kids do some cleanup, and even more often, clear the dishwasher to set the table while dinner is being prepared. I haven't tripped over a dw door or banged my shins on the corner of the dw door very many times, but even once was too many!

When I read 'busymom', I also read busy kitchen that should at least have the room to accommodate kid helpers. -- Don't want to discourage them from the tasks they can do, whenever they feel so inclined! :-D It's when I'm in there working that the kids want to come in and join the fun, talking to me as we each do our own things.

The dw between the cook and the fridge is also a problem, which is why I tried it at the opposite end. The stove on the wall, cleanup on the island situation is a tough one to get everything.

If you set the table out of the dishwasher, maybe it needs to be farther from the sink, and away from the fridge. Can you make the island deep enough to accommodate the plumbing behind the cabinets?

I had the DW and range opposite eachother in my old kitchen and it was a problem. I can't say it was always a problem, but enough that I changed it this time around. Even if you are able to open both doors at the same time, no one is able to walk thru that space. For the size of your kitchen, I would definitely try and avoid the conflict.