I'm assuming scale is 6" per box

Seems like this isn't you first time at the rodeo so I'm not going to assume the split cooking zone works for you. I'm wondering if the open shelf by the oven stack (left side) won't impede the use of that counter as a landing space for things going in and out of the micro & oven.

-the asymmetrical cupboards beside the fridge (on the right)? Just a drawing thing? What would go in the upper drawers?

-the 20" inch door on the right of the cooktop looks out of proportion to the surrounding cabinetry to me

-lower pull out - at 9" I am guessing for oils - if for spices I have heard a few folks who have done them say they wish they had done them at eye level (lot easier to see the spices)

Are you sure the open fridge door won't conflict with oven and microwave handles?

You might need to make the cabinet facing the dining room 27 or 30" so that your warming drawer can open without hitting drawer fronts and pulls on the stove wall.

Cary's right that the 20" upper cabinet door will probably look comparatively large to the rest.

The prep sink really wouldn't work for me in that spot. It'll be difficult to stand at comfortably, especially with the warming drawer there, I'd think, and there is not enough space to work and set things between it and the stove. I preferred it in a previous post when someone moved it to the end of the peninsula. Then it would also be handy to your beverage area. I always like a prep sink than can be multi-purpose.

Thanks Cary and Rhome410! Appreciate your comments in spite of the bad quality of the drawings :)

Cary,
- the open shelf will be about 8" deep and 8" high, to hold coffee supplies. Do you think it will still come in the way?
- the smaller drawers to the right of the fridge, are meant to hold address books, and all the itty bitty stuff that one accumulates near a message center. The cabinet right about that will be a closed one, inside which there will be cubbies for mail, hanging glass rack, etc. Are you calling it asymmetrical because the left and right doors are not equal sizes? If so, that is just a drawing thing.
- on the 20" cabinet to the right of the cooktop, any suggestions on how to make that more symmetrical?
- on the pullout, yes mainly for oils. Spices will be on a metal shelf on backsplash, either directly behind cooktop or to the side.

Rhome410,
- do you suggest providing a gap between the oven stack and the fridge to prevent the handles problem?
- I have since removed the warming drawer from the appliance list - does your second point still hold?
- On the prep sink, since there is no warming drawer now, where do you think it will work best?

Thanks again!

Cooking
congrats on your remodel -
I'm not sure on your overall room dimensions, which walls are exterior , how many in your family, how many cook, etc..

Based on my cooking preferences - and I do cook daily
first thing that came to mind was the prep sink - For me I'd want more countertop by cooktop than a sink, and the main sink seems well located in regard to the rangetop.
I would prefer more counter than an appliance garage - I have my frequently used appliances in drawers on either side of range & in base cab near range -
Same with the sizes/types of cabs by range - I would prefer big base cabs that are drawers - easy access, & easy to put away & have the kit looking neat. My drawers house cooking utensils (top), mixing bowls, food processer (middle) everyday pots/pans (bottom) - sort of one stop shopping when I'm at the range.
My oils/vinegars/cooking liquids are in upper cab flanking range - I have LOTS they take up a lot of room - I can see them easily and access them easily -
Books are on a shelf away fr. cooking area - I frequently use online resources these days - print & go
I'd be a little concerned about glass around range/top -
How is the rangetop ventilated? is it on exterior wall?
Is there adequate landing areas for both wall oven/micro & refrig? does the refrig open all the way w/o restrictions on either door?
Have you considered putting the fridge drawers elsewhere? what will they be used for? I'm thinking of what would happen in my house - I think the kiddies would have everything open - main fridge doors & fridge drawers searching
Is the sink window centered on something?
What will go in the appliance garage by refrig & what counter will it be used on?
The upper cab above that appliance garage is noted as glass - what will go in there? - It may seem off balance to the other side?
"the smaller drawers to the right of the fridge, are meant to hold address books, and all the itty bitty stuff that one accumulates near a message center. The cabinet right about that will be a closed one, inside which there will be cubbies for mail, hanging glass rack, etc. Are you calling it asymmetrical because the left and right doors are not equal sizes? If so, that is just a drawing thing" - It appears there is a lot going on, on that wall - coffee, refrig, appl garage, msg ctr, wall oven, Micro & not enough landing space

Random thoughts - hope it helps

Good luck

WHere do everyday dishes, glasses, flatware go?

You probably need to check your particular fridge and ovens to see how their handles might conflict, and to see how much room you would need between to avoid a problem. If you don't have a fridge yet, you might consider a one-door, bottom freezer unit that hinges on the right.

With no warming drawer, my 2nd point is unnecessary.

I still think the sink location is possibly problematic. Any way to mock it up for yourself and check it out? As I said, I think I'd like it on the end of the peninsula.

Rhome410,
The fridge is a 42" built in french door, the total depth of the fridge including the doors at 90 deg is 44", so I'm guessing the doors are atleast 20" wide each. This particular model, link below(KBF42FTX - panel ready), is not exactly flush (depth incl. handles ~ 28"), so does that make it better so the doors actually stop before hitting the ovens.

Regarding the prep sink, if I move it to the end of the peninsula, I'm afraid I will lose countertop where I can set things down from the fridge, shopping bags, etc. Should I just get rid of it then? I was planning on using the prep sink as also a filtered water source and for rinsing fruits and salad veggies instead of going to the main sink.

Jejvtr,
- the glass cabs are only the last ones near the sink wall and the topmost layer of upper cabs which will be more decorative than functional.
- the rangetop is planned to be ventilated via a hood insert and an inline blower in the attic
- re. landing space for the M/W, I was planning on using the peninsula. Any better ideas?
- the fridge drawer & freezer will be mainly for kids drinks, snacks & frozen stuff, beer and the occasional wine bottle for chilling - again, is there a better location?
- we tried to center the sink on the window but this was not happening, so we gave up on that
- in the appliance next to the fridge, we plan to put in the hand mixer, yogurt maker and the blender
- Everyday dishes & cutlery will go in the drawers below the peninsula

Here is a link that might be useful: KitchenAid 42

My layout is VERY similar to yours, although my sink wall is only 144". I also had a tough time centering my sink, and choose to get a "regular" sized ticor in a custom 26 3/4" sink cabinet in order to center it with the window. One of my lower corner cabinets is custom at 33" on the sink/DW wall and 36" on the oven wall.Would this help your situation? It's that darn dishwasher that needs to fit!

I did not put a prep sink in. I really don't need it. My sink is close enough to refrig and stove for my needs. Although, when I am entertaining and have my bar on my peninsula, it would be very handy to have one at the end of my peninsula.

I put in a beverage refrig on the kitchen side of the peninsula and am very happy with it's placement.

I REALLY like all the counter space that I have. My kitchen is not as long as yours, and is smaller than most here, but I have no trouble entertaining for a large crowd.

Here's a link to the layout and photos if you're interested. Good luck with your kitchen. I remember how exciting it was when I did mine last July!

Barb

Here is a link that might be useful: Barb's Kitchen

I am in favor of keeping the sink, but moving it away from the stove a bit. I think that the peninsula location would make it great for rinsing fruits and veggies, whereas, by the stove has no room, and if one is cooking and one trying to rinse, it's a real problem.

Bringing in groceries, you still have the overhang behind the sink as landing space, and getting things from the fridge, you'll easily get used to setting them to the side of the sink...or in it, if that's where they're going. You could also center it on the peninsula, which would still give decent work space on the stove side and 18" or so on the fridge side.

Thanks everyone.

I've tweaked the layout a little bit, with 2 options for the location of the prep sink. Let me know your views.

Thanks!

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll296/woostersoz/Kitchen_layout_Jun13_Layout_V2.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll296/woostersoz/Kitchen_layout_Jun13_Cooktop_V2.jpg

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll296/woostersoz/Kitchen_layout_Jun13_Fridge_V2.jpg

Trying again

Layout Version 2 with 2 options for sink

Cooktop wall Version 2

Fridge wall Version 2

In Buehl's kitchen she has a prep sink in the corner... But done a little differently, so easier to access with the diagonal front. Problem is, that would decrease the space between sink and stove again. I would prefer option 2, or even the space where the warming drawer used to be...Right between your options.

Here is a link that might be useful:

cooking

My responses are based on how my family & I use our kitchen - so personal pref
- the rangetop is planned to be ventilated via a hood insert and an inline blower in the attic -
Do you mean exiting via the attic to outside?

- re. landing space for the M/W, I was planning on using the peninsula. Any better ideas? :

Since you have the opportunity for landing on either side of fridge, my personal pref would be to have landing over an appliance garage - closer, more convenient - I'm picturing my house - a little one wants a bowl of cereal, glass of milk, or water from fridge - if they are right handed you want landing on right side more erogonomic - NOt to say the penninsula isn't ok - but it's further (3.5-4') vs being an armreach & you have the option to maximize now in design phase.

Is the entrance to the kit from a back door? I'm just visualizing our entrance near back door - 1st counters are the ones that become landing spaces typically. In your instance it will be penninsula & the counter over the refrig drawers
- the fridge drawer & freezer will be mainly for kids drinks, snacks & frozen stuff, beer and the occasional wine bottle for chilling - again, is there a better location?
Again, not that it's "bad" , I think you would optimize your function if they were separated - - I would consider putting them in the penninsula or see how a plan w/o them would work
** an aside - your fridge is 42" wide but only 22.5 cu ft capacity - You could get a 35-36" wide French door refrig that is actually more cubic ft 25 for less than 1/2 the price of the KA - + gain 6-7" counterspace! just a thought***
- we tried to center the sink on the window but this was not happening, so we gave up on that- I understood that, but the window should have something it is centered -i.e. over the base cabs on either side by same dimensions - does that make sense?

- in the appliance next to the fridge, we plan to put in the hand mixer, yogurt maker and the blender -
Where will you use those appliances? - Can they go in a base cab closer to where they will be used?

- Everyday dishes & cutlery will go in the drawers below the peninsula
This is the only one where I just feel strongly that it doesn't work - That would drive me crazy unloading the DW and having to walk nearly 10' each time I want to put something away - I'd rather have least used items further away fr. DW, most used within arms reach. I frequently have the kiddies unload the dw so have tailored where things go to be close by & w/in their reach - Things they can't reach are ok to leave for mama to put away. I also have one base cab designated w/kiddie bowls, drink cups & plates - Makes them more independent and part of the process

good luck
Have you considered uppers flanking the sink window?

OK had to postpone the meeting with the cabinet maker while I fine tune the layout. Here are the latest iterations. Thanks to your inputs, I am now replacing the built-in 42" with a full 42" assuming my GC can recess the wall behind.

The 18" to the right of the fridge is open counter and possibly books inside the glass cabinet above. The open rounded counter will be the transition to the corner leading to the family room.

I am also creating a landing are between the fridge and the oven/microwave. (talking of which should I move the microwave above the landing area or should it stay in the oven stack?)
I have reduced the length of the peninsula by a foot to accomodate the fridge door opening. I'm guessing I could squeeze in 3 barstools into along the 66" peninsula run. The sink is at the corner of the peninsula.
Rhome410, I considered the diagonal sink but thought it took up a lot more base cab space. Otherwise functionally, I think it will probably be a better option. Am open to thoughts.
Would love your comments on the new layouts.
Thanks!

Layout

Cooktop Wall

Fridge Wall

Peninsula

Cooking
What a smart person you were, not rushing to the finish line before feeling confident! SMart move - & in these economic times, DON'T let any contractor make you feel rushed - their #'s are ALL down, regardless of what they project to you.
I think you will be very happy you now have landing room by the refrig - good move. did i miss something, not sure why you went to full 42" refrig ? more cubic ft, I was actually surprised that your orig fridge was only 22.5 cu ft
Micro - Hmmm good ? - because it is high - which rep potential accidents - I forget your household makeup ?little ones - do you want them to access in the next few yrs? - If you have a spot for it I may say move it. Since you aren't moving the fridge drawers what about putting the micro in Penninsula. I honestly ended up w/mine on a counter to right of the range becausse I just did not like where they had it spec to be. I like it there

Have you considered no prep sink? This is a personal preference & really comes down to what is more critical in the design - Prep sink, or more room on the penninsula - I think in your application I would be more inclined to say no prep sink

Have the sink window centered btwn the base cabs - I know it can't be centered on the sink - that's ok, as long as it is centered.

last personal pref - can the appliance spec'd to go in the gargage on the range top wall fit in nearby base cabs? I would opt for that - not only will it give you more counter space ? hmmm micro placement? more streamlined look

You are in the home stretch - things really look good -
and good for you!

I think Buehl had a special shape of prep sink that somehow didn't take up extra room, but I can like the prep sink location in this latest plan.

I wish you knew whether or not the handles would collide on the fridge and oven, because it was nicer to have them together and combine the counter space into something wider and more usable. Won't you miss the beverage area you had planned? As far as putting the oven and fridge next to each other, I think it depends more on the oven handle than the fridge handle...If the oven handle angles back to the face of the oven, it probably won't dent the fridge door, but if it's like mine and protrudes out all the way across, it could cause a problem with the opening fridge door.

BTW, I love the planned heights for the oven and micro. Our microwave is in the bottom shelf of our upper cabs and it'd be nice to have it a smidge lower as you show. The height you show also leaves the oven at a comfortable height.

Sorry should read 36" full fridge

Jejvtr, thanks for the encouraging remarks. We have a 9 and 6 yr old, who are already starting to use the microwave. The older one should be able to use the M/W at this height now, while it may take a couple of years for the younger one to be able to reach it.
On the prep sink, I can see use for it. The exact location on the peninsula is tricky (am reading Rhome410's comment about the diagonal sink - need to find out what model that is), but I think it will be more of a help than a pain.
Agree with your thought about the AG, but I use the food processor fairly regularly to want to have it handy. Perhaps I can look at making it a little less deep, like 8 or 10" instead of 12", to maximize the counter space.

Rhome410, I looked at Buehl's sink but was not able to locate the model number.
On the oven, I will probably go with the Electrolux 27" (not Icon) which as far as I can see has straight handles. Need to go see it in an appliance store. If they are curved handles, I would like to give more counter towards the sink.
Not having another appliance next to the fridge will eliminate the problem of clashing doors.
The beverage area will now probably have to be the landing area (with a wine and wine glass rack in the cab above) or the peninsula once I figure out where the wine glasses go.

an option for the prep sink could be the one linked below and positioned so the pointy edge is at the corner of the peninsula, as close to the corner as possible.
Do you think this is better than the end of the peninsula or in the middle of the peninsula?

Here is a link that might be useful: Prep sink

It's smaller than I'd like. As far as placement, you have to weigh the use of the cabinets, where each person might stand, etc. If it was larger, I'd probably use that one in the corner, because it makes use of the counter corner that'll be hard to reach and utilize anyway.

I'm a little concerned about going much bigger on the prep sink. I think I can stretch it to 15" or 16" square or round - like the one linked below.

Here is a link that might be useful: 15 square

15" or 16" would make a big difference when you're trying to fill a large pot or scrub a bunch of veggies...Less banging of the knuckles on the sides. :-)

It seems wonderful. I'm sooooo jealous. I wish I had that much space.

Thanks dinkledoodle - it doesn't feel that big, I sometimes do a double take when I look at the layout on paper and re-measure the space:)
Re-positioning the garage door was a life saver, allows me to locate the fridge there and gives me the possibility of creating a recessed space. Hope that happens, otherwise back to the drawing board.

Sorry I didn't get to the party sooner...(swamped at work)...but, here's a closeup of my prep sink. It's not as nice as the copper one you linked! However, I notice the interior dimensions of that sink are only 13" x 13". If it were me, I'd prefer a little bigger.

The interior dimensions of mine are 15-3/4" x 15-3/4".

The cutoff corner allowed me to put a faucet closer to the sink so none of the peninsula overhang is taken up by the faucet. In fact, I have 27" b/w the back of the faucet & the edge of the seating overhang; close to 31" b/w the sink & peninsula edge. I think the fact that it's a corner helps as well since there's some extra room behind the sink.

Perhaps I missed it but I didn't see Buehl's sink identified in the thread. Here's a link so you can pull numbers if you are thinking it might work.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kohler 5 sided sink

Thanks Buehl and owls4me!

The angled corner cabinet makes the sink edge look smooth and the shape of that sink works well too.

My cabinetmaker says the angled edge would cost more - does that sound right?
What size sink cabinet does this model need?

Buehl, is that a pull out faucet at that sink?

Thanks again!

Separately, I re-thought the fridge. I originally had the KA 36" FD (standard depth recessed) in the layout.

However, although the capacity sounds good, I did not like the bottom freezer when I saw at the appliance store today. Will a SXS 48" (like the KA KSSO48FTX) work in that space instead? The fridge would still start at the same spot but would end closer to the dining room than earlier.
I'm wondering if a 48" will look too big in the kitchen (it will be panelled though).
At 90 deg open, the doors open to 28" from the countertop ; what is the total clearance between the peninsula and the fridge that I will need? I have currently provided 5 feet - is that a little too much? I figured with the door fully open, another 30" will be enough for one person to walk through.
Thanks!

Yes, that's a pullout faucet, the Kohler Fairfax pullout in brushed nickel. The sink is the Kohler sink Owls4Me linked (but I paid about $150 less for it at EXPO last year).

I wanted a pullout faucet b/c I wanted a lower profile than a pulldown because: (1) there's a cabinet above part of the sink, (2) there's seating & I wanted to reduce splashing, and (3) I didn't want it to be a "focal point" on the peninsula. It turns out it's much better for filling pots & fish buckets. I just put the pot or bucket on the counter, hook the faucet head on the edge of the pot/bucket, and let it fill. The fish bucket in particular gets too heavy (5 gallons) to lift up out of the sink and then down. I'd rather just slide it off the counter and down.

The sink base is a 36" corner sink base...even stock cabinet lines have them. It wasn't a special order cabinet. If he's charging you more for the angle, then I assume he would do the same for any corner cabinet w/the angle instead of the 90o cut (like a lazy susan cabinet)? I can't imagine it would cost that much more....unless he doesn't want to do it and this is his way of discouraging you... As a matter of fact, I'd think the sink base would cost less than a lazy susan cabinet since it doesn't need the curved wall to surround the shelves and it doesn't need the hardware for inside.

++++++++++

Space to open a refrigerator b/w the end of the peninsula and the refrigerator...what a luxury! LOL! I have 33" b/w mine. It was supposed to be 42", which I think is probably plenty, but due to the infamous measuring errors + outside venting issues, I ended up w/33". Yes, it's enough room to open & stand in front of (and nice & close for staging groceries for putting in the refrigerator!), but no one can easily pass by while the refrigerator is open. Luckily, the refrigerator is one appliance that's not open for very long.

Getting to the point...5' is more than enough...if you want more peninsula length, you could decrease the aisle to 48" and still allow someone to pass by.