skip to main content

Electrical Wiring

Fishing # 4/3 Romex Cable

17 years ago

I have a 200A panel located in a corner of my basement. I would like to install a 100A sub-panel in another part of the basement. There is a finished room between the main panel and the location of the future sub-panel. I'm thinking of using # 4/3 Romex Cable to supply the sub-panel. Would it be practical and/or code-compliant to install the cable by "fishing" between joists and alongside a cold air boxed-in duct run.

I know I haven't given any details about the reason for the sub-panel, breaker size, choice of #4/3 cable etc. This is just about running the cable.

Thanks for any and all comments.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (9)

kurto
17 years ago
If there are no local restrictions, it should be fine to fish non-metallic cable to feed a sub-panel.
techno2006
Original Author
17 years ago
Would fishing of #4/3 non-metallic cable to supply a sub-panel be allowed in Ontario Canada?

If it is allowed, is this the way an experienced electrician would do it?

What would be the largest breaker size I could use on the main panel to supply the sub-panel via the #4/3 non-metallic cable?

Thanks
Related Discussions
How many 12 gauge romex cables allowed through 3/4' hole?
Q
Comments (9)
Groundrod's post is alarmist. There is NO concern with anything less than five "cables". Yes, two (2-wire) cables, or more accurately four conductors, require derating, but this is NOT an issue when we are talking about 9 conductors or less of size #10, #12 & #14. We use the 90 deg C column for derating and nine or less uses a 70% derating. Even this 70% is no less than the typical ampacity for these size wires. This is due to 240.4(D). IMO this type of thing is not even worth mentioning and only serves to confuse non-trade folks. Why bother saying two cables needs derating when the bottom line ampacity numbers DO NOT change. Also, groundrod, can you tell us where you see ANY reference to fire or draft stopping with regard to derating. I see no such notations. Cables simply passing through holes DO NOT require derating.
...See More
boring holes for romex
Q
Comments (7)
Perhaps because it's a 20 amp circuit with some other things and I assumed was talking 12/2 w ground. I wired all my houses with 12 gauge - I never used 14. A single 12/3 would do it of course, one for the light, one for the fan the neutral and the ground. In any event, you don't want to drill the hole larger without a clear understanding of what that will do. I've seen it too often too where HVAC and plumbing guys (mostly) just hack away anything in the way. I had some floor joists crack on the old house I'm in now. You also don't want to thread the bare wires through the beam without sheathing or conduit. This post was edited by jakethewonderdog on Tue, May 6, 14 at 14:08
...See More
How many Romex in box
Q
Comments (3)
It depends on many factors, some info here: http://ecmweb.com/code-basics/box-fill-calculations Assuming 12/2, no internal clamps (looks like they're on the outside), no devices in the box.... 2+3 12-2's would be 10 conductors the grounds would be 1 condcutor. 12g uses 2.25 cu in per conductor, so you need 24.75 cui inches. A 4" box is typically a touch over 30 cu in (it should be marked on the box), You'd be OK.
...See More
10/3 Romex with Conduit
Q
Comments (4)
NM-B (Romex) needs to be installed so it isn't "subject to damage". Most AHJs (building officials) consider anything under 4 feet off the floor in a garage subject to damage if not in a finished wall. NEC 334.15 (B) specifically permits EMT to be used for this. The EMT shouldn't be used as a "system", meaning the NM-B both enters and leaves the EMT in a fashion that the EMT is used as a sleeve. The EMT shouldn't have boxes on both ends of the run so it is considered a "complete" conduit run. The installation the OP describes isn't unusual and becomes a problem only if the EMT terminates in the panel or boxes (because of clamping requirements). If the EMT is on a basement wall the rules change slightly.
...See More
bigbird_1
17 years ago
In Canada you can fish cable to a subpanel. Using #4 will only allow an 85A max current. Since there are no 85A breakers, at least none that I've ever seen, I suggest you use #3 cable, which will allow a 100A DP breaker to feed your sub.
3/3 cable is thick and very heavy. Good luck fishing that.
techno2006
Original Author
17 years ago
"3/3 cable is thick and very heavy. Good luck fishing that."

Are you suggesting it's not a practical solution? Would it be worth trying?

The way I see it there are 3 options:

(1) Fish the cable if feasible, as discussed above.

(2) break the finished ceiling, install the cable properly, and fix the ceiling.

(3) Another option is to run the wire on the outside of the house. It can go straight out the wall where the panel is and then run along the side of the house at ground level about 20' towards the back of the house and then through the wall and into the part of the basement where the sub-panel would go.

If option (3) is a good way to go what type of wire and conduit should be used? Can it be run at ground level?, installation details?

Any comments/suggestions would be appreciated.

I'd like to know how a good experienced electrician would do this, i.e. go for option (1), (2) or (3)(or another option?) and how would you go about it.

Thanks again.
djunor
17 years ago
3/3 is what you will need. If you dont mind putting in a small bulkhead, I'd consider that route first. If not come off the side of your existing panel with 1-1/4" conduit use LB's instead of elbows and remember to unbond the sub panel.
lcbo
17 years ago
2/3 USEI90 is cheaper than the 3/3 copper. If you can dig a trench easily I'd go that way.
techno2006
Original Author
17 years ago
If I run the wiring outside:

Can I run it at ground level?

What kind of conduit would I need to use - steel or plastic or either?

What type of wire would be best to use?

Any other comments/suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks
bigbird_1
17 years ago
I'd go slightly above ground level, check your local code, steel or PVC is OK, THWN wire in the pipe.
techno2006
Original Author
17 years ago
O.K. To summarize:

*I want to install a 100 A sub-panel supplied from a 200A main panel.

* The sub-panel location is about 40'from the main panel. I'd go straight out the wall where the main panel is and then run along the side of the house at about ground level about 20' towards the back of the house and then through the wall into the basement, and another 20' to the sub-panel.

* What wire (type and size) and conduit (type and size) should I use?

Thanks

Related Stories

DECORATING GUIDES Mission Possible: A Designer Decorates a Blank Apartment in 4 Days

By Becky Harris

Four days and $10,000 take an apartment from bare to all-there. Get the designer's daily play-by-play

ARCHITECTURE All the Possibilities: 4 Homes at the Edge of the Earth

By Eric Reinholdt, Architect

Travel to the far reaches of land, where these residences straddle rocky cliffs, leafy lakeshores and choppy inlets

ARCHITECTURE Houzz Tour: Modern Plays Nice in a Historic Houston Neighborhood

By Mitchell Parker

Subtle modern details make this new home stand out from its elderly neighbors without disrespecting them

COASTAL STYLE Houzz Tour: Cottage Style Goes Modern Rustic on Lake Wisconsin

By Becky Harris

Reclaimed wood contrasts bright white finishes for a fresh take on rustic in an inviting summer home

FUN HOUZZ How to Survive an Epidemic of Walking Dead

By Becky Harris

Tips to use around the house and garden to prep for the zombie apocalypse

LIFE How to Outsmart Backyard Critters

By Tiffany Carboni

Learn to think like a raccoon, skunk or squirrel to keep your home safe and your garden intact

MOST POPULAR A Contractor's Secrets to Hanging Holiday Decor

By Innovative Design Build

Hang a wreath or garland on brick, concrete, Sheetrock or wood the professional way — and avoid the potential pitfalls

PETS Pet-Proofing Your Home: A Room-by-Room Guide

By Marianne Lipanovich

Not all pet dangers are obvious. Keep furry friends safe and sound by handling all of these potential hazards

LIGHTING The Lowdown on High-Efficiency LED Lighting

By Karen LeBlanc Design TV Host & Writer/Blogger

Learn about LED tapes, ropes, pucks and more to create a flexible and energy-efficient lighting design that looks great

DECORATING GUIDES Quick Fix: Find Wall Studs Without an Expensive Stud Finder

By Vanessa Brunner

See how to find hidden wall studs with this ridiculously easy trick

Sponsored

More Discussions

undercounter power strip and lighting

3

Does NEC require a DUPLEX receptacle in kitchen?

2

Killing electric outlet behind cabinet

4

I need a pop up outlet on my island, but they are HUGE!

5

Feeder Wire - Wire Insulation is slightly under lug. Is this an issue?

2