So let me get this straight...

If mom does not take the kids for the scheduled visitation time, then no big deal, that's her perogative and no one, including the court, will enforce it (ex: my stepdaughter's mom, Cawfe's stepchildren's mom, etc.).

BUT, if kids refuse and/or do not want to go with mom for the scheduled visitation time, then dad is in contempt.

It would be wrong (and illegal) for the custodial parent to not allow visitation, but if the dispute is between the child and the parent (without custodial parent interference) then shouldn't the conflict be resolved between the two parties (parent and child) who are in the conflict?

I'm surprised that no one has pointed out that the custodial parent should NOT interfere with the relationship between the noncustodial parent and the child. Conflict and conflict resolution are part of all relationships and as such should be between those that are in the conflict to resolve and work through. Conflict is not always great but it can (and usually does) contribute to building and strenghtening bonds.

Hubby was under the impression that he "had to make the children" go with their mother when she showed up.... But he was told by the judge and DSS that if they don't want to go he doesn't have to "make" them go. He can suggest that they go but he doesn't have to "make them".

So I would guess he could not be held in contempt for not making them go with her.

But who knows... until you get in front of a judge what the outcome would be....

OP aren't you going back to court for a visitation modification? I would add something to the modification ... could they email each other? use cell phones for text messages? there are other forms of communication.

Lonepiper, for the Nth time, I didnt tell my DD. She was not a baby. She was 14 when we moved out. She could discuss with you adinfinitum about her Dad's relationship with GF predating when I moved out. OK?

Sorry. Confused you with TOS.

This touches on a problem we have been having. Many times as I said before my SD does not want to call mom, and until recently we were making her. Now we only make her if we are out of town and mom couldn't reach her.
Anyway - some have said SD's unwillingness to call is a problem between she and mom and they need to deal with it. I completely agree, but I also know my SD. She ducks and runs from any confrontation with her mom because it always gets very ugly. Mom only considers her feelings in most matters, so rather than trying to get to the heart of why daughter doesn't want to call (nothing to say, busy, just doesn't feel like it) she tosses her onto the guilt wagon and screams about how it ruins her day if she doesn't talk to her daughter . . . which means she must have a lot of bad days as she only calls every 3 or 4 days! :-) Basically, the problem is that SD is afraid to tell her mom anything negative for fear of her reaction. She'll come home from visitation with a list of worries/complaints about her mom, but when we tell her she needs to address them with mom to effect any change she pulls into her protective shell. There have been a few times she's actually spoke up, but the results haven't been favorable. Most times mom thinks we put her up to the conversation as SD couldn't possibly find anything wrong with her mom on her own.

Ending my ramble, I guess the question is how do you have skid discuss w/ mom their lack of interest in calling/visiting in a way that won't make their lives miserable? Yes, we have tried to follow up with mom, but nothing productive comes of it - just a bunch of accusations and screaming.

JNM, we've had the same problem. My oldest stepdaughter is very vocal and has no problem letting anyone know that she has an issue, etc.!! She is very extroverted. My youngest stepdaughter is very introverted and will internalize everything!!! I have a very strict policy at home - you are entitled to your opinion and you are entitled to share your opinion even if the person you are talking to doesn't hold to the same opinion. Its brought her out of her shell and we have some very lively debates at the dinner table!! However, it ends there. She is unable to talk candidly with her mom. There's nothing I can do, however, I did encourage her to talk to her aunt (her mom's sister). I thought that maybe she could offer additional support and/or perhaps speak to their mom about my youngest stepdaughter's worries and issues. She did but nothing productive came of it. In the end we've had to just let it ride. She is their mom and she will do things the way she wants. We have no say in the matter. The only thing we are able to do is pick up the pieces, wipe the tears, soothe the hurts and move on until the next time...

Not very encouraging, but at least you know you're not alone... Neither is your stepdaughter. Too bad they don't have a safe, secure forum for stepchildren...

In reading your last statement, "Too bad they don't have a safe, secure forum for stepchildren...," I was thinking, "I imagine there are some folks on this forum who wish there was a safe and secure forum for SMs." ;-)

LOL!!

I actually have had that very thought! This is a forum for STEPfamilies, yet it seems there is an awful lot of SM bashing on here!

Winom,

Stepfamilies include stepchildren. I, as a mom, see a lot of bashing of stepchildren here. If stepmoms want unconditional acceptance, I would suggest go to a "second wives" board. I, as a mom, stick up for my DD. I am certain that annoys the Dads GF. Too bad.

Thank you! This is exactly where my concerns lie. Honestly, my concern as a stepMOM is for my SD and her feelings and what is truly best for her, and like it or not... it is NOT always best for her to have contact with BM!

KKNY~ I've read your posts here and elsewhere and I sense A LOT of hostility and anger toward step parents and how your husband ended your marriage. I'm sure there were problems before he had a GF, or perhaps poor judgment on your part if you knew his character before you married him (or worse, you didn't know him well enough) That's not really what this forum is about and I'm trying to make a point here.

All this anger and hostility is at the root of your daughter's feelings for her dad. Yes, she may know he cheated and so what? He's her dad and she loves him and just because you are bitter, you are pulling her onto your ship which encourages her to be angry at him. She may be angry at him without your help but if you think that you are not encouraging her anger (even if you "make" her go visit him because it's the right thing to do), you are making a big mistake. (btw, my mom cheated on my dad so I know how a teenager feels when that happens)

I'd suggest that you spend your time finding a good counselor to talk about your pain from him leaving you for someone else, instead of coming on here to bash step moms. Until you marry someone with a child and you know what it's like to be a step parent, you can't fault us for our feelings toward our step children.

It doesn't mean we all hate having step children but when you have a bio mom that is hateful and vindictive and the children naturally take their bio parent's side, so step parent gets treated badly because of it. Being a step parent can be frustrating and rewarding. I'm a bio parent and I'm a step parent. I knew what I was getting into but that doesn't make it any easier. I didn't like my son's step mom but she took care of him when he was at their house and the last thing I ever wanted to do was create a situation where she would resent him and possibly treat him badly because of things I said or did.

"I'm sure there were problems before he had a GF, or perhaps poor judgment on your part if you knew his character before you married him (or worse, you didn't know him well enough) " -- We dated for 2 years (and I had college and prof. degree by the time we married). Guess what -- I will never look like I am this side of 30. And when his current GF cant, I have my guess what will happen to her.

"All this anger and hostility is at the root of your daughter's feelings for her dad" Teenagers do have their own feelings.

I guess you must know or my DD in real life, as otherwise I cant figure out you could make these flat out statements. Maybe you are Dads GF? Who knows? But putting all the blame on the mom appears to be your theme. BTW, I have done my best to get DD to call Dad, visit etc. If I didnt, they would have even less of a relationship than they do. But in your eyes, the mom is wrong. I guess this makes many SMs lifes easier, to say oh, this is all the moms fault. Interesting.

you are so full of anger and that was the point of my post. That's even more apparent by you stating

"Maybe you are Dads GF? Who knows?"

His cheating and leaving is NOT dad's GF's fault. It's your ex husband's. He vowed to be faithful and he wasn't. It probably has nothing to do with what you look like, or her. It probably has to do with how he feels about himself and his own intimacy issues. and yes, he will probably do the same to her but that's HER problem, not yours.

I'm NOT putting all the blame on MOM because like I said, I AM a mom. My son had a step mom that was down right EVIL to me. (She would call me names when we did exchanges and a couple of times she assaulted me) As his mom, I tried to take the higher ground for his sake~

"I didn't like my son's step mom but she took care of him when he was at their house and the last thing I ever wanted to do was create a situation where she would resent him and possibly treat him badly because of things I said or did."

Your anger isn't helping and it was my suggestion that instead of coming here to bash step parents and accuse everyone of being dads GF because they don't agree with you, that you might seek professional help to deal with the pain you have suffered in your divorce.

Being a step mom can be frustrating and this forum is here, I assume, for step parents to vent, seek or give advice, and support. You may see it as bashing step children and think that you are standing up for your DD by your posts but it doesn't appear to be helpful to anyone.

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Of course it is the fault of both parties. No one can cheat alone, and everyone has the responsibility to refrain from committing adultery.

If your son's stepmother physically assaulted you, it would have been irresponsible to continue to allow your son to visit if she was there. You should have called the police immediately, obtained a restraining order, and gone to court to do everything possible to make sure that your son was never in her presence. I think we can assume that if she disliked you enough to assault you, she did resent him and he was in danger.

"you are so full of anger and that was the point of my post. That's even more apparent by you stating
"Maybe you are Dads GF? Who knows?"

Lighten up. I dont think I am angry, and I clearly dont think I am as self-righteous as some. But everyone is entitled to an opinion. I think that SMs who listen to the SM line are likely to end up in a combustional situation.

"If your son's stepmother physically assaulted you, it would have been irresponsible to continue to allow your son to visit if she was there. You should have called the police immediately, obtained a restraining order, and gone to court to do everything possible to make sure that your son was never in her presence. I think we can assume that if she disliked you enough to assault you, she did resent him and he was in danger."

The court system isn't always as "fair" as you might think. I had several restraining orders against her and the court did not think that was a reason to stop visits unless I could prove she was abusive to HIM, and according to my son, she wasn't. We spent almost six years in a custody battle until I could finally prove that she put my son in danger. Her husband left her for another woman and the other woman was driving with my son in the car (he was 10 at the time) and his step mom rammed the new girlfriends car. I spent over $17,000 on lawyers & counselors before I got enough proof to stop the visits. My son is now 20 years old.

and KKNY, I am not trying to offend you. I have just read some of your posts you've made and it's clear that what your ex did to you was painful and I know what it's like on both sides. My SD's mom has a problem with me being a part of her daughter's life. She ran off with new BF and left SD with us, now she's resentful that I do "mom" things for her daughter. I understand her feelings, but her resentment has caused her daughter to distance herself from me which makes it harder for me to have a good relationship with SD. My point is that when a bio mom has those feelings, kids know it and kids naturally side with bio mom. I'm sure my son did the same and even though his step mom didn't like me, said mean things about me, called me names or even assaulted me, I still told my son that he was to be respectful of her when he was there. I think that it did a lot to teach my son about forgiveness. I never wanted him to give her a reason to resent him and I hope she didn't. As far as I know, she treated him well. As an adult, he has chosen to not see her (except to visit his little brother occasionally) and he is still respectful toward her. It is hard to encourage him to be nice to her when she was so mean to me but it isn't about me, it's always been about what's best for him.

I think the underlying thread I'm picking up here is actually words speak louder than actions(!) It is one thing to make sure your kids go through the motions of visiting their other parent, calling their other parent, etc. It's another to let me be known with your subtle (or not so subtle) words and attitudes toward them that they are persona non grata. It's very easy to poison your child against someone while appearing to be supportive.

Kids, while still their own persons with their own opinions, have a need to please. Most are also fiercely loyal. If you put those traits together with a parent who is (knowingly or not) projecting their feelings about the other parent onto their child you will often find that the child will "side" with that parent . . . initially. I do believe that as the need to please lessons and common sense sets in these kids grow to resent that parent for steering them onto a path they may not have picked without that poison.

I wouldn't want my kid to respect someone who purposely rammed a car in which he was riding. I don't think that counts as treating him well.

Ima, my DD is 16 now. Even if her Dad were to marry his GF tomorrow, they would have little time togethor before DD goes to college. I am not worried about how SD and the GF interreact, because it is extremely unlikely to happen. Gf and Dad may never marry. Dad may go on to a series of GFs. In any event, we are just going to have to agreee to disagree, that especially where dad is NCP, SM does not have any rights to a relationship with a child.

I think that Justnotmartha said it best.. kids sense what the parent feels and wants to protect the parent, just as parents want to protect their child.

My response to theotherside, I taught my son to be respectful because it was in his best interest. He had to be around her when he was at his dad's and no matter what I thought of her or how evil she was to me, I didn't want to give her a reason to treat my son bad. I tried to get the court to intervene but they didn't until the car ramming incident. At that point my son ended contact and his father never asked for visitation again. My son was told to be respectful prior to that when he was visiting. And even now, she is still the mother of his half brother. He's 20 and is free to make the decision to visit his 8 year old brother. If he does, he still has to be respectful or she may keep them from visiting.

and KKNY, she doesn't have any "rights" to a relationship with your child. That's true but your daughter will resist a relationship if she knows how much you dislike her or how much pain you are going through. Her loyalty to you and taking your side because you are the one in pain can also make her reject her father, which I think is sad. Not for him, he made his bed. But for her, because she may be 16 but I am 38 and my relationship with my father is one of the most important ones in my life. He is always going to be her dad and the grandfather to her children. There will be graduations, weddings, grandchildren, etc. in her adult life. It doesn't end when she turns 18.

I'm a child of divorce and my father remarried when I was 17. We didn't like that Dad got married again, even at that age. My sister would get in my step mom's face and yell at her. Yet, when she got in trouble at school, my step mom graciously went to talk to the principal. She was a very patient woman to put up with her step children (us). I got along with her best because I worked in Social Services and so did she. She got her Master's degree in psychology and became a Marriage & Family therapist.

A year later, my step mom was working in her garden on Memorial Day weekend & collapsed. When my dad got her to the hospital, they found out she had suffered a brain anyeurism. She survived and he's cared for her at home for the last 10 years. Her own children have abandoned her (don't even visit). My daughter & I care for her every day while my dad works. She will never recover or have a conversation with anyone. She's in a permanent vegetative state (worse than the woman they removed the feeding tube from a couple of years ago) I care for her because she is my step mom. She didn't raise me. I didn't always like her or get along with her. But my dad loves her and I love him. I take care of my step daughter because I love my husband and want the best for his little girl. and I taught my son to respect a woman I hated because it was better than teaching him to hate too. As we, and our kids get old enough, they will form their own opinions. I tried not to let mine rub off.

Imamommy,

There are all type of step situations. I doubt Dad's GF even knows where DDs school is. I dont think DD has or will reject Dad -- its more he doesnt havent time for her, and she resents that he only wants to see her when it is convenient for him (not often). Her relationship with him is about him and her, not me.

I think sometimes it is easy for SMs to blame the mom when their idea of a family doesnt happen. That is not alwasy the case. Particulary when a woman has an affair with a married man, she may never be acccepted by others in his family. Others have said that better. In any event, I dont even know if GF wants a relationship with DD.

Oh, so you taught him to PRETEND to respect her. I suppose that is a useful skill when your life is in danger as his was, but in general I think not. It is the parents' responsibility to teach their children right from wrong, and ignoring wrongdoing (adultery, other criminal activity, etc.) is wrong. I wouldn't want someone to pretend to respect me if they really hated my guts. Respect has nothing to do with love - I love my exH and most likely always will, but I lost respect for him when he committed adultery.

TOS - we personally teach our children to be respectful to EVERYONE regardless of how they feel about that individual. Its not ignoring wrongdoing, its common decency. You can not like someone and still act respectful and civil to that person.

To me, respectful and civil are different. I am civil to many people I have no respect for. People I have no respect I attempt to limit my interaction with.

"Oh, so you taught him to PRETEND to respect her. I suppose that is a useful skill when your life is in danger as his was, but in general I think not. It is the parents' responsibility to teach their children right from wrong, and ignoring wrongdoing (adultery, other criminal activity, etc.) is wrong. I wouldn't want someone to pretend to respect me if they really hated my guts. Respect has nothing to do with love - I love my exH and most likely always will, but I lost respect for him when he committed adultery."

No, I didn't teach him to PRETEND to respect her. I was the grown up and told him that he is to be respectful and his dad also expected him to be respectful. I had a close enough relationship with my son that we talked about things and he would tell me that she said mean things about me but she was never mean to him, and I'm sure his dad would not allow her to be mean to our son. My son is almost 21 years old and still has some contact with her to see his little brother. You are NOT going to convince me that I did the wrong thing. When the incident happened where she struck the car my son was in, she was no longer living with my son's father and not having any contact with my son. He was in the car with his dad's new GF.

I never "pretended" to respect or like her and I was the one that hated her. I didn't rant or say negative things in front of my son but he probably knew I didn't like her because of the things she said. I'm sure he had his own feelings about her because of the way she talked about me but my son had NO reason to hate her because she never did anything to him and if you think a child should hate someone because YOU do, then that's your problem. I told him that her words are just words. It wasn't HIS battle to fight on my behalf. A lot of kids will fight that battle for a parent because they are intensely loyal to their parents.

and if it's about using the word "respect", I let my son know that he was to follow the rules at their house and that it was unacceptable for him to talk back or be disrespectful in any way. I'm sure there are bio mom's (or dad's) out there that tell the child "you don't have to listen to her/him, she's not your mom/dad" and that give the child the power to be difficult. Any parent that does that is only making it harder for the child, not easier. If you want your child to be difficult to the step parent, then you are putting your child in a position where a step parent would be resentful of the child and not be so nice to them. You can't have it both ways.... allow your kid to be a brat and then expect the step parent to be okay with it. My step daughter's mom told her she didn't have to listen to me. It's made it harder for me to go the extra mile for her when she wants something. Things are getting better because I tell my step daughter that I'm sorry your mom feels that way but I want us to get along and when you are here, you have to follow the rules.. just like at school or karate, they have their rules too.

kkny,

Exactly. Respect and civility are two entirely different things.

imammomy,

I don't get it. If your husband had left her when she tried to kill your son, I certainly understand the restraining order, but what was the point of stopping visits with your husband, since she wouldn't have been around? Or did your exH go back to her, in spite of the fact that she had nearly killed his son? If that were the case, he obviously did allow her to be far worse than "mean" to your son.

The minister in our church once said, "You shouldn't be so open minded that your brains fall out." There are times, and I think this was one, when you certainly SHOULD try to influence your children's opinions of other people - drug pushers, murderers, and pedophiles do not deserve respect.

It is possible that, had your son not been "respectful" toward her in the first place, she would have managed to have ended his visitation earlier, and he would not have been in the car when she rammed it.

Speaking of karate, the other day my daughter's karate instructor discussed respect with the kids. He emphasized that you should respect the other children as well as the Sensei; that age had nothing to do with it; that he should respect the children just as they should respect him; and that Senseis and Shodans should be addressed by their titles because they have worked very hard to earn that title.

I don't know where this nonsense about "respecting" people more just because of their age came from (and, btw, I am in my 50's), but I am glad that my daughter's Senseis don't teach that.

Imamommy,

Every situation is different. In mind, I think my DDs tactic of minimizing contact with Dads GF is best. And i think there are many SMs here who wouldnt have a problem with that course of action.

theotherside,

She didn't try to kill my son. I had restraining orders on her from the time I met her because she, for reasons I don't know, never liked me and was hostile. The court knew this when they made the orders for visitation and as long as she didn't do anything to him, the court would NOT suspend or deny him visitation. The visitation stopped after the new GF was driving with my son and his step mom struck her car and dented it. She claims she didn't know my son was in the car. The court awarded me sole legal & physical custody and said that if dad wanted to visit, he had to petition the court, which he never did. I don't know why and I really don't care now. My son is grown up and if he sees his dad or step mom, that's his business. My BF at the time was a deputy sheriff and I've always taught my children to have respect for the law and never encourage them to respect drug pushers, murderers and pedophiles. She may not have been deserving of respect, but there were times that the court said my son HAD to be in her care and while he was in her care, I was not going to allow him to be disrespectful and make his life harder. You can disagree with me but you can teach your children to disrespect and that's your business, I am not here to judge you on it.

and "respecting" people because of their age? I'm 38 and I was always told to respect your elders. Sure, I come across some undeserving old people that are bitter or angry for whatever reason. But I think it is a good thing for parents to teach their children to respect the old because in today's society, being old is unappealing. When some people see an old person driving slow or walking too slow, I see a lot more people honk or get angry than trying to help. We are all going to get old, perhaps use walkers etc. and I don't think it applies to ALL old people, just because they are old. My interpretation is that it's a shame that the elderly get pushed aside and mistreated BECAUSE they are old. I feel sad for the ones that are bitter because it's a sign they are not happy with their life. But when I meet anyone that can tell me firsthand about something in history, I think it's great.

and kkny

I agree with you on that. It would be easier in my new marriage if my SD didn't live with us but her mom feeds her ice cream for breakfast & lets her sleep on the same bed as her new BF's two boys that are a couple of years older than her. (not to mention she signed over custody after knowing this new guy two weeks and she also abandoned her other 12 yr old daughter by leaving her with her grandma) I could go on but for now, it's best that SD lives here where it's stable & she has structure & boundaries. She loves her mom and I would never say a bad thing about her mom.

If your daughter is making her own decision and it's not based on her loyalty to you (which at 16 is very possible) then it's her choice but if she's being loyal to you and minimizing contact with his GF and it also puts a strain on their relationship, then someday she may regret that, especially if he doesn't stay with that GF. Kids (even 16-18 year olds) don't always know how to look into the future to see the long term consequences.

Imamommy,

I keep forgetting, every SM here is the perfect mother and married to CP. Unusual site, but OK.

I think what you dont focus on is most times, mom is the CP.

Too bad dads GF didnt think about long term consequences of having an affair. Probably blinded by the lights on the big Beemer. Dad is apparently waking up to the problems. My guess is Dads relationship with DD will last longer than that with GF.

Again ever situation different.

I think it is important to teach your kids to stand up for what they think is right - and I doubt if your son thought that his stepmother assaulting you was right.

I think you needed a better lawyer. If your exH had assaulted you, he would likely have gotten supervised visitation. It makes no sense that the courts would force you to send your son to visitation when she was present. There were so many other options - requiring her to be gone during visitation, visitation by your exH at your house or in a public place, having your exH stay in a hotel or with relatives during visitation, having a GAL or other court appointed person get a RO against her in your son's name, because at the very least he would have been traumatized by having his mother assaulted.

Of course it is wrong to run down grandmothers with walkers. That has nothing to do with respect.

I think what many are saying is respect is treating others how you would like to be treated. Not that you RESPECT their actions or words, but that you treat them like you hope they would treat you.

kkny,

Nobody is perfect. I am a mom, I am a step mom. I came to this place because I thought I would find other people that were in the same situation. Being a step parent is not always easy and often, it can be made worse by the other bio parent. It's a great idea to have a place for people to share their problems and seek positive solutions. It is frustrating to come here and see mom's and step mom's bash each other as well as the step children. That's not going to help anyone be a better mom or step parent or make any of the children's lives better. Everyone wants to be right & nobody will admit they are wrong. I don't have all the answers. Most of your responses sound like you blame dads GF and if you think it's her fault, it's not. she didn't vow to be faithful to you, he did. HE didn't think about the long term consequences or what he was doing to his family, including his daughter. I'm sorry he did that to your family but blaming the other woman isn't going to change it from being HIS fault.

and theotherside,

I'd like to know how much time you have been involved in the justice system. I'm tired of defending something that happened over ten years ago. He's 20 years old and not at all traumatized. He's a loving, respectful young man that cares about people. The court had the information and perhaps if we were going to court today, the outcome may have been different. Our "family law" case was heard in the superior court along with criminal and civil calendars. Now, the courts have divided them and have specific types of cases heard together and the I think the Judges are more knowledgeable regarding family law as a result.

and if you think I was talking about running down grandmothers with walkers, you missed the point entirely. I will try to simplify it for YOU. SOCIETY AS A WHOLE SEEMS TO NOT VALUE OUR ELDERLY. SOCIETY AS A WHOLE EMBRACES YOUTH. EVERYBODY WANTS TO LOOK AND FEEL YOUNGER AS IF SOMETHING IS TERRIBLY WRONG WITH BECOMING OLD, WHICH IS A NORMAL OCCURRENCE. ELDERLY ABUSE HAPPENS MORE OFTEN THAN YOU MAY WANT TO THINK ABOUT. SOCIETY WOULD RATHER SEND ITS ELDERLY TO NURSING HOMES OR RETIREMENT VILLAGES, THAN BRING THEM HOME TO LIVE WITH THEIR FAMILIES WHEN THEY NEED CARE OR ASSISTED LIVING. I AM NOT SAYING "EVERYBODY", BUT OUR SOCIETY DOES NOT EMBRACE AND RESPECT THE ELDERLY. I HAVE SEEN IT FIRST HAND, PEOPLE HONK OR YELL AT THEM BECAUSE THEY GO TOO SLOW. MY STEP MOM WORKED ADULT ABUSE WITH ADULT PROTECTIVE SERVICES FOR SIX YEARS, AFTER WORKING CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES FOR OVER TEN YEARS.

Imamommy,

I do think both Dad and his GF contributed to affair. But dad is stil dad, and while not perfect, does love DD and is entitled to relationship with her. GF while not perfect has done nothing to show she loves DD and is not entitled to relationship with DD.

Also, I think TOS does show respect for all who deserve it. Just not respect for people who may be older but not deserving.

I think the move on, get a life, is also a mantra for ignoring bad acts of others.

but doesn't there come a time when you make the choice to move past the bad acts of others so that they do not overtake you?

I fear that your son may have been affected by the fact that his parents did not protect him from this woman, a woman who assaulted his mother, in ways that will not become evident until he is a father.

I agree with kkny -"moving past the bad acts" is just an excuse for ignoring wrongdoing - and I think that is one thing that is wrong with society.

I agree that some of the elderly, especially the elderly poor, are treated badly, and that is wrong. There are also elderly people who think they deserve benefits handed to them on a silver platter. As a group, the elderly are the wealthiest in our nation, and preschoolers are the most likely to live in poverty. If I hear one more statement like "I live on a fixed income" I think I will scream. My income is just as fixed as theirs is - my COLA is the same or lower than that of social security, the child support hasn't gone up in nine years, yet college tuition continues to climb astronomically and I'm not living in a house that was paid off back when it was possible for a family to live on a single income.

Nobody deserves respect just by virtue of their age. I don't WANT someone to respect me just because I am older than they are. I appreciate respect received by virtue of my accomplishments.

Justnotmartha,

I dont know what you mean by overtake. I work, have friends, etc. Dads GF isnt a part of my life. She has made her bed, now she will sleep in it. She could be thrilled with not having her SD around.

What bothers me about contact with SD and Dads GF is I questin her motives -- is a SM just appearing to get along with a child to get a better spot in Dads will. I know I am older than a lot of people here, and that at this point, Dad has pretty much protected my DD's assets, but things can change.

KKNY, I wasn't referring to you in particular. I was just stating that you can dwell on the bad acts of others until the start to change the person you are - the way you treat people, feel about yourself, etc. I think you are right - that can be a 'easy way out' for bad acts, but it can also be a saving grace. A way to say I am past this and getting on with my own life.

Theotherside

First, people are "affected" by EVERYTHING that happens in their lives. YOUR kids were affected by your divorce you should have stayed married. They are affected by a father that cheats, you shouldnÂt have married a cheater. Why do you "fear" my son was affected? Do you know him? What does it matter to you? Especially because you are so focused on something that happened in MY life ten years ago. MOVE ONÂ. And the elderly that live on a "fixed" income, use that term because that is all they can get. From retirement or Social Security. Unless they are healthy enough to continue to work, thatÂs it for them. So itÂs an appropriate term. If you are capable of working, your earning capacity is not FIXED. (and I raised three children without ever getting child support) I am owed over $100K in child support that I may never see. He may never legally drive in California again but thatÂs not my problem. I didnÂt live my life (while raising my children) to depend on money from anywhere other than my hard work. I did it alone (without welfare or assistance) and today, I own my own company and take care of my own step mom while my dad works. And for my SD, her mom hasnÂt worked a real job in her adult life and we get nothing from her. YOU CANÂT CONTROL WHAT OTHERS DO, YOU ONLY HAVE CONTROL TO YOUR OWN ACTIONS. If you go through life trying to control what the other parent does because you don't agree with it, then you are going to be the one in constant conflict and frustrated.

and i agree with justnotmartha, what I think she is saying is that when you hang on to the hurt or pain of what someone does to you, then you can become a bitter and angry person. I think that is why some old people are so bitter, they can't let go of things in the past. Negativity can eat you up inside until you become someone that is so miserable, nobody wants to be around you... I let go of what people have done to me (including his step mom) and MY life is a lot happier.

Their income is no more fixed than is mine. My earning capacity is most definitely fixed - fixed by the fact that SOMEONE has to take care of my children. I CAN NOT work a second full time job, on top of my full-time and part-time jobs. I can not accept a job that requires extensive travel. I can not accept a job that requires an hour long commute each way and leaves me unable to get home quickly if one of my kids gets sick at school. I can not move out of state - unlike all those retired folks who can move to Alabama and buy a house for $100,000.

You are right about one thing - I should not have gotten divorced. Unfortunately, due to the fact that no-fault divorce is allowed in this state and many others, I did not have any choice in this. And as to marrying a cheater, I had no way of knowing that in advance - even in retrospect, I saw no signs of cheating the first quarter of a century we were together.

That was written to be rhetorical. Obviously nobody gets married expecting to get divorced. You would have stayed with a cheater? Nobody wants their child to go through a custody battle or having to grow up in two homes. It's not what we dreamed of as little girls. But in reality, we have to make the best of our situation that we are in.

I don't know what kind of work you do, but as long as you are able bodied and not relying on a fixed amount check (like social security or disability), then there ARE options, like changing the kind of work you do, where you can make more, etc.

I had my first child at 17 and went back to get my HS diploma when I was 19 (and 9 months pregnant with my 2nd child at graduation) i had my 3rd child at 21 and by 22 I was left alone to raise my kids. I rode the transit bus to the community college to attend classes & walked with the stroller to get groceries. I also worked minimum wage jobs and got rides or walked until I finally saved up enough to buy a clunker. When I was 23 or 24, I got together with a guy that had custody of his 3 kids. I worked at Target (for just over minimum wage) while I went to school. He was a police officer that worked graveyard shift so I got the kids up and off to school, then I went to school, then to work. He was home when they got home from school & he would feed them dinner. I got home and put them to bed while he got ready for work and left. Eventually I got a job with the Department of Social Services and continued college. Our relationship fell apart when I was 29 and found out he had no intention of marrying me and I had raised his kids for almost 7 years(their mom was MIA). The hardest part of leaving was worrying I wouldn't survive financially. I never received any child support for my kids. I worked full time (4 -10 hour days) and that gave me a 3 day weekend, so I worked a part time then. Almost four years ago, I resigned & cashed out my retirement account. I used it to start my own company and I've been doing that for three years now. It's been very tough, I've only been married for a year. When I met him almost three years ago, he made more than twice what I did. He still makes about the same as he did then & I am now making more than him. If I had stayed in my old job with vacation/sick days and insurance/retirement benefits, I would be making about a third what I make now. So, I don't believe ANYONE that works has a "fixed" income. (and I am running my company, caring for my step mom and my 8 year old step daughter full time too)

I believe it is irresponsible to not seek child support for your children - they are due that money. In my state, child support is virtually always awarded - you can not make an agreement for, say, a one time payment of 100,000 dollars in lieu of child support.

So I am supposed to be impressed because you made one bad decision after another when you were younger? And because your business hasn't failed (yet)? My profession may not be all that high paying, but I am quite certain I earn more than a social worker does. And I don't have to spend my days spouting pyschobabble.

Sorry - I misspelled that - psychobabble.

As a matter of fact, I can thank people like you and KKNY for my business' success. I operate an attorney support services business and as long as bitter divorced folks keep on battling, I'm in for lots more business.

I left social services because it was very stressful to see the destruction that hard headed selfish people inflict upon their children & families.

It isn't irresponsible to let the court make an award and if it doesn't get paid, then for me the answer was to work as hard as I could to take care of my kids. I am owed over $100,000 in back child support (I lost count because the interest is now much more than the principal and I know it will never get fully paid)

Yes, I made one bad decision after another and I've never said i was perfect. Perhaps it was because I had a mother that spent my teenage years wallowing in self pity and blaming my father for everything that I couldn't wait to get away and be grown up. I didn't have proper guidance but as I got older, I matured, was responsible for my kids and made my way in my careers. And when I was left a single parent of 3 at age 21, I could have wasted my time and energy blaming the father that isn't paying child support but I chose to make my life better without him. And twenty years later, he lives under a mountain of debt that he will never get out from under and I am happy and have children that I am proud of.

Deadbeat NCP's continue to exist in large part because too few CP's (and too few governmental entities) are persistent in going after them. It is a huge societal problem and largely responsible for the high poverty level among preschoolers. It is never a waste of time or energy to do whatever is necessary to force a NCP to pay court-awarded child support. To do otherwise is a slap in the face to all those NCP's who do pay child support faithfully.

you are entitled to the opinion "It is never a waste of time or energy to do whatever is necessary to force a NCP to pay court-awarded child support"

and I am entitled to my opinion that I would rather spend my time and energy working on building my life (focused on my marriage, children & career) to make it better and not blaming a deadbeat for my problems.

The award of support owed to me is not going to evaporate when my kids are grown ups. It just sits there growing interest. That's his problem, not mine. He will owe it forever.

My kids are well taken care of and have learned that if they want certain things, they have to work for it. I did that, my dad did that and my grandfather did that. It's not a new concept.

and if your ex is a deadbeat and doesn't pay, then that's one thing but if it's about making him pay extra just because you think he can, that's not the same as "to do whatever is necessary to force a NCP to pay court-awarded child support"

Deadbeat parents are leaches on society in general. We all pay higher taxes to provide services to children whose NCP's are denying them support. Even in cases where the child does not receive governmental subsidies, the child whose NCP does not pay court-ordered child support is denied the standard of living and often the education to which he or she is entitled.

TOS, I agree with you. There are many government programs that are means tested, including student loans. They are meant for people who need them, not for people who dont. At my DDs school we run a benefit, so that the principal has funds to pay for uniforms, etc., for children who dont have the money to participate in sports, etc., that they qualify for. Virtually all are children of single mothers. Yes, I do my best to contribute to these efforts, so that every child has a chance, but the funds are limited. To encourage a child, oh if Dad wont pay, find a way is not fair to the community. IMHO.

I am in no way defending deadbeats, including my ex. (seeing my point might have been twisted to fit your agenda again), I am saying that I am not going to waste my time and energy with lawyers, courts, collections, etc. I have a business to run and a family to raise and we are doing quite well without it.

You are free to do what you want, good luck in ridding the world of people that need governmental subsidies. If you only knew how the government operated, you would be appalled at THEM, not the NCP's that don't pay support.

Speaking of twisting what someone says - I never said that the world should be rid of people who need governmental subsidies. Deadbeat NCP's should be forced to pay the child support they owe so the CP's don't HAVE to depend on governmental subsidies in order to survive.

I am quite familiar with how government operates - sometimes badly, sometimes very well. I was working for the government back when you were just a child.