Did your electrician tell you this was their practice. If in your area such as mine the POCO is responsible to provide power to the line side of the meter then I would would fight this. This is so typical of them to go out of their way to not provide customer service. Tell you what they "ain't" gonna do and think that's the end of it. This really annoys me as an electrical contractor and I see this is practice all over not just here. If I ran my business like that I would make it 2 weeks. As to who to compalin to I would start with them, maybe your local building inspections office to get some guidance. Hope this helps and good luck.

BTW, you do NOT have to cut up your concrete drive, you can jet a tunnel under it for the conduit.

around here one POCO will do all the work, while the other ( a cooperative) will not. nothing anyone can do about it either, as they state as such on the paper work you sign to get service. they will replace the underground feed with teh same size if it goes bad, but in an upgrade situation they require you to trench it and provide the conduit. recently they even changed the rules to state that you cannot get them to pull or even install a meter without providing proof of a permit AND the contractor registration number. this is just goign to force many homeowners to work on stuff hot now. their excuse is the county ordinance requiring ALL electrical work to be done by a registered electrician recognized by the county.

the other POCO, Entergy, pretty much does not care and will do what you what for you. heck, their guys will even stand around and wait while you change out a meter base if you ask nicely. otherwise they will leave and come back in an hour or so.

Another process called "directional horizontal boring" can be used in lieu of cutting the concrete. I cannot advise about costs.

You only need a hole at each end if you use the services of a directional boring company. You won't need to dig up your driveway.

The power companies obligations are often determined by your state's Public Utilitiy Commisiion or some similar rate setting body.

In the state I live in, above ground improvements (service drop) are usually done free. All underground work is the property owners responsibility plus there is an extra charge from the PoCo for the underground cable and labor.

around here the poco can do whatever they want and it really sucks bad. They can pull whatever size they want, they can make you use whatever size conduit they want, they can make you only use long sweep 90's if they want, etc....
It varies huge from county and county too. For example in one county I can't use ANY heated/bent pvc. In another county I HAVE to use rigid metal from the ground to the meter, and in another metal is prohibited and I have to use pvc expansion couplings.
I hate how they can do this because it makes it hell trying to remember everything for each location.

Thanks for the responses. The PoCo (a co-op) essentially told me if I wanted service, I would do what they say. I don't have the time to appeal to the Public Service Commission, etc... I need power to my shop right away. Looks like I am going to start digging.

If you pull power from the house panel you do not need to even involve the POCO.
They ARE going to hit you for a monthly service charge, on top of the power used since it is metered separately.
Feeding from the house panel is almost always cheaper unless you need 3 phase service for the workshop.

Where is the voltage drop? Are they actually supplying what they should? Measure the voltage preferable on both phases to neutral and between phases at a relatively full load then again with all the loads turned off (range included) and note the difference. Switch the loads back on and take one more measurement. The difference is the drop from the power companyÂs line to your home.

If the transformer is light you may want to measure at your neighborÂs home as you switch your loads on and off. If it drops more then a few volts there then it is there problem, the transformer is not capable of delivering the needed power. Personally it sounds like the measurements were made during brown out conditions. Go to http://www.csgnetwork.com/voltagedropcalc.html and calculate what the voltage drop would be. At 100A the drop goes from 5.1V to 2.6V when going from 1/0 to 4/0 Aluminum cable per phase.

In the end regardless of where the problem is it is your equipment that suffers.

I am adding a SUB PANEL because my 200A service is full and I need to add 100A. My meter base is a200A base, so I need a new meter base. The PoCo will not hook up a new base for a service upgrade because they say I am under voltage now. I am not adding another meter, so no service charges or commercial use fees.

Are you adding up breakers to determine power required?
It does NOT work that way.
The number of breakers (and whatever they add up to) has NOTHING to do with how much power you are drawing.

You can add a 100 A sub-panel fed from a 200 amp panel.
A full panel is not electrically 'full'.

Load diversity means you are NOT pulling anything near 200 amps from that panel.
Add a 100 A sub-panel fed from the existing house panel.

No, I am not adding up breakers. Please fully read my original post before lecturing. (The part about the graphing meter tests the PoCo performed)

REVIEW: I am currently pulling 170 A as a matter of routine and my voltage is dropping to 110v. I cannot add a woodworking shop with several large saws, an HVAC unit that pulls 30A, a 30A air compressor, etc... to my existing panel.

I started digging up driveway Saturday and am trenching to the pull box tomorrow. They are going to install 350 MCM, which should take care of my volt drop issue. I STILL THINK THEY SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE if they aren't meeting my "current" needs. :-)

Sadly, it seems that in today's U.S. of A., nobody is responsible for anything, unless a lawyer gets a judge to order that they are responsible. :

I could always just get my power from one of the PoCos competitors - NOT!

----They told me if I was was above-ground, they would foot the bill,----

After following this thread I have come to the conclusion that you want a wedding cake for donut pricing. It's not gonna happen, extra work means extra money.

RE: "After following this thread I have come to the conclusion that you want a wedding cake for donut pricing."

No, I want the wedding cake that I pay for each month to have all the ingredients in the quantities needed to make it edible.

If they can't deliver 114v minimum to the hot side of my meter, THEY should change their wire to make it work.

All this having been said, I dug up my yard, cut my driveway and laid 210' of 3" conduit Tuesday. They came and pulled 350 MCM and connected me back up that afternoon.

"Âbut I am under 60% rated (Amps) load most times and my peak usage was 77% rated load (for 2 cycles only) when my A/C kicked on while running dryer, oven, and other appliances during testing."

"No, I am not adding up breakers. Please fully read my original post before lecturing. (The part about the graphing meter tests the PoCo performed)"

An overload for 2 cycles during induction motor start up does NOT determine demand or that you have a Âfull panel.

You are artificially creating an overload that under normal circumstances would NOT occur.
Load diversity limits the normal draw on a system, but you are trying to eliminate it to justify a lot of work.

There is no need to upgrade a feed that is running at 60%.

"REVIEW: I am currently pulling 170 A as a matter of routine and my voltage is dropping to 110v. I cannot add a woodworking shop with several large saws, an HVAC unit that pulls 30A, a 30A air compressor, etc... to my existing panel."

While the breakers for the saw and HVAC may be 30 amps, they do not pull anywhere near that while running. The breakers are sized to allow for the short stating surge of induction motors without nuisance tripping.
Look at the nameplate of the HVAC equipment and the saw motor for the actual load current.

"If they can't deliver 114v minimum to the hot side of my meter, THEY should change their wire to make it work.
All this having been said, I dug up my yard, cut my driveway and laid 210' of 3" conduit Tuesday. They came and pulled 350 MCM and connected me back up that afternoon."

Trying to Âgame the recorder (which you did by trying to run every load you could) to create the illusion of a higher demand is NOT going to convince them.

You can do anything you want with additional panels and feeds, if the POCO does not replace the line transformer you will gain nothing.

Do a search for ÂCBEMA curve to see what normal power quality standards are.
+/-10% variation is allowed for long term voltage.
If they supply 108 V they meet the spec.

Brickeyee,
If you had a customer who had a volt drop to 110v for over 2 minutes during testing, who was running at 77% rated load when running 3 appliances (very common with a family of 7) I suppose you would tell them NOT to add a panel and replace the feed from the street to add a woodshop?

I hope nobody is paying you for electrical advice.

I was not trying to "game" the system. I DID NOT want to replace anything. But common sense dictates that when you are already at 77%, adding an additional HVAC unit, 5HP air compressor, a 5 HP dust collector, and a 3HP table saw THAT WILL ALL BE RUNNING AT THE SAME TIME often, that I would be foolish not to upgrade.

/Project over - last post/

"If you had a customer who had a volt drop to 110v for over 2 minutes during testing, who was running at 77% rated load when running 3 appliances (very common with a family of 7) I suppose you would tell them NOT to add a panel and replace the feed from the street to add a woodshop?"

The problem is NOT the feed.
It is the pole transformer feeding your house.
You can heavy up all the wire you want, but without a change in the pole transformer there is NO more current available without sagging the voltage.

You need to look in the NEC and find what the RUNNING currents are for the motor sizes you have.
Article 430 covers electric motors, and Table 430.248 specifies the full-load currents of single phase motors.
A 5 hp 240 V motor is 28 amps.
A 3 hp 240 V motor is 17 amps.
These motors will ONLY draw this much if they are fully loaded to their rated horsepower, a RARE occurrence.
the wiring for the motors is based on 125% of these full load currents, but the breakers are allowed to be 250% of the full load current.
A decent quality 3 hp motor for a table saw often need a 40 A or 45 A breaker to start without tripping.

Induction motors look like nearly a dead short for a few cycles till the rotor begins to move.