From Wikipedia:
"Bono married his first wife, Donna Rankin, on Nov. 3, 1954 and they had a daughter, Christine ("Christy"), born on June 24, 1958, before divorcing in 1962. Following that, Bono married Cher; Bono and Cher had a daughter, Chastity Bono, on March 4, 1969. Six years later, in 1975, the couple divorced. Bono then married Susie Coelho, but divorced her in 1984. He married again in 1986 to Mary Whitaker. They had two children, Chesare Elan Bono (a son, born 1988) and Chianna Marie Bono (a daughter, born 1991)."

Well, Cher wasn't even the first wife... she was the second wife. He had children from three of his wives and when he died, if it wasn't bad enough that Cher disrespected his current wife, imagine how all his children must have felt... the ones with his current wife AND his first child... DISGUSTING!!!!

Again, I didnt see the press conference -- what did Cher do to disrespect these people.

The press coverage was because of his fame (in his own right as well as with Cher) and he was a politician at the time. Cher tearfully spoke of what Sonny meant to her & her life. She spoke like SHE was the grieving widow. His wife at the time, the true grieving widow, ended up taking over his political role until the next election.

So she spoke (I assume nicely) what he meant to her. I dont see that as disrespect. Ima, yes he was famous. Would he have been without Cher? We will never know. A lot of people do credit his success to her. And would he had been successful in politics unless he had been well known in the entertainment field? We willnever know.

X wifes dont have to disappear. Many will be more respected by family, business associates, and yes -- less frequently -- the press -- than current wife.

Yes and Cher certainly deserved everyones respect what with her assless chaps, fishnets, mediocre music and enough plastic surgery to kill a baby elephant and all...hahahaha. She was milking a media moment for all it was worth. Period. Celebrity marriages are a freaking joke anyway...do you truly think they LOVED each other. LOL.

Meanwhile the current wife took over a politicacl role which actually requires nuerons and fills her deceased husbands shoes untill his term was up. She also carried herself with dignity during her grieving paeriod and never told Cher to sit down and shut up. HHHHMMMM....who sounds more respectable.

I think the assless chaps proves my point......

Doodle, I have no reason to think they didnt love each other when they got married. I see no reason to attack a woman for making what I assume to be nice statement about an X. But if that is your idea of the height of disrpect by an earlier wife, I think you are being one-sided.

There are times when the EX wife (if she has any self respect) SHOULD dissapear. Death is one of those times. You should speak your grievance, say whay you have to say, offer condolences to family and then SHUT UP! Go grieve in silence if you are still not over the man but don't turn the death into a freak show.

Other times Ex wife should dissapear:

Wedding, honey moon period of EX.

Birth of new babies between Ex and new spouse/girlfriend.

Family traditions that have been started up between Ex and new spouse.

Basically anything that doesn't involve his/her CHILDREN he/she had with EX since trully that is the only reason they have left to converse at all. If the person is remarried with a new family (which of course would include children from former marriage)this goes triple.

Anything more would be intrusive. Once the Ex moves on and starts a new life the other party should do the same thing. Just stick to issues directly concerning the kids. If everyone did that alot of step family drama would not exist.

There are times when the EX wife (if she has any self respect) SHOULD dissapear. Death is one of those times. You should speak your grievance, say whay you have to say, offer condolences to family and then SHUT UP! Go grieve in silence if you are still not over the man but don't turn the death into a freak show.

Other times Ex wife should dissapear:

Wedding, honey moon period of EX.

Birth of new babies between Ex and new spouse/girlfriend.

Family traditions that have been started up between Ex and new spouse.

Basically anything that doesn't involve his/her CHILDREN he/she had with EX since trully that is the only reason they have left to converse at all. If the person is remarried with a new family (which of course would include children from former marriage)this goes triple.

Anything more would be intrusive. Once the Ex moves on and starts a new life the other party should do the same thing. Just stick to issues directly concerning the kids. If everyone did that alot of step family drama would not exist.

also from Wilki -- it seems as if Sonny might have wanted this.

His ex-wife, Cher, gave a eulogy at Bono's funeral, after which the attendees sang the song "The Beat Goes On". His final resting place is Desert Memorial Park in Cathedral City, California. The epitaph on Bono's headstone reads: "And The Beat Goes On."[

It was a reference to a song he sang. What's your point? I'm sure his current wife is the one who APPROVED the epitaph not Cher.

My point was that either the deceased or his legal representative or his widow chooses who does eulogies. Are you suggesting that Cher crashed the funeral. And yes the widow approved the tombstone, with a reference to a song, he sang WITH THE EARLIER WIFE. So it does not appear that the widow felt dispected. You and Ima want the X to disappear, but it does not appear the widow (who according to wilkie, has remarried twice since Sony's death, but still supports his causes) had this resentment.

haha doodle, assless chaps!!! and all her 'boy toys'!!!

Sonny wrote some of the songs that made her famous. He actually helped her get her career started. I'd think KKNY would appreciate that, even though he didn't have the 'looks', he had the brains. Oh wait... maybe looks ARE more important. (maybe she looked better in assless chaps and fishnets, straddling a missle than he did, lol) So, her star took off and she dumped him for all her younger boy toys while he went off & did his own thing. And he found a career that was fulfilling to him & a wife that shared that with him. He wasn't a flashy person and didn't run around referring to himself as "Cher's ex" to cash in on her fame. He was out doing his own thing, with his own family.

So Ima and Doodle, nothwithstanding that you think Cher disprected the widow, and other children, how do you explain the Eulogy other than Sonny and or the widow wanted Cher involved?

KKNY-

Cher carried on like she was the grieving widow. Had she offered her respect and condolences to the CURRENT wife it would of been different. The way it was played out just looked like a desperate attempt to be in the spot light.

The current wife DID have to approve all funeral proceedings, tombstones and the like. She was GENEROUS to let Cher take part at all. It just seems that if a person who watched any of the press coverage of Bono's death who didn't KNOW who Sonny and Cher were or any of the details of their relationship...that person would assume by the way Cher carried herself throughout the ordeal that SHE was the grieving widow. To me that is a little disrespectful.

I would pop Amanda in the jaw if something happened to J and she acted that way. The emotions would already be extreme without her going around blabbing about how wonderful he was and how he was the love of her life and she would never ever got over him. I'm sure no one wants to here of another woman's undying love for her deceased husband 24 hours after the man passes away...not good timing to be pouring your guts out if you are the EX.

KKNY-

I would assume the widow was nice enough to include Cher considering Sonny was a grease spot on a tree. I don't think he had too much say in hos funeral proceedings.

I'm not saying Cher had no right to spaek out on behalf of SOnny...I'm just saying she might could of toned it down a little. Maybe she could of mentioned the fact he had a current wife and children outside of her own daughter whom were left husbandless/fatherless. That's all I'm saying.

Doodle, I know nothing of the relationship between Sonny, Cher, his widow, etc. But for you and Ima to assume this was disresptful (which you now say a "little" disrespectful, after hearing more facts), is just showing your bias agaisnt Xs. You dont know if the widow got along with Cher. Your relationship with your DHs X is not everyone elses.

You are right there. Jonathan hates his EX to put it mildly. I still think that she could of at least MENTIONED his current wife and other children in one of her out pours.

Many people of a certain age have with their will instructions re their funeral. I certainly assume Sonny had a will and adequate legal respresentation. You and Ima have done a hatchet job on Cher, when in fact, she may have been doing exactly what Sonny and/or his widow wanted. Maybe widow wanted privacy. YOU DONT KNOW. Yet you and Ima hack hack hack at any and all Xs.

I know some peole who have fabulous EX's. They don't start drama. They are polite. They do right by their children. They act like adults. They are always pleasant with the current spouse...etc. etc. I have heard of women who get along fine with the husband's EX.

All the Ex's I have heard that are like this have one thing in common. They all have moved on with their lives and have new families of their own and are trully HAPPY with their new life.

I'm not saying Cher hadn't moved on...I just think she saw a chance to be in the spotlight for awhile. But as far as hating all EX's...that's not true at all. That's not to say that pain in the rear Ex's don't piss me off though.

Cher had moved on. Read her bio on Willkie, although her career had ups and downs, it was up after she and Sonny divorced.

and from her bio

Cher was in London in January 1998 when a call from daughter Chastity brought news of Sonny Bono's death in a skiing accident.[34] He was 62. At the time of his death, Sonny Bono, by then a popular California Congressman, was married to his fourth wife, Mary Bono.[35] Although they had been divorced for nearly 23 years and Sonny was remarried with two more children, Cher accepted an invitation to deliver the eulogy. The funeral, unbeknownst to Cher, was broadcast live on CNN. In front of millions, she tearfully and effusively praised Bono, calling him "the most unforgettable character I've ever met."[36] Cher paid tribute to Bono in the CBS special Sonny and Me: Cher Remembers (1998), calling her grief "something I never plan to get over."[37] In 1998, Sonny & Cher received a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame for Television. Cher appeared at the event with Mary Bono, who accepted the award on behalf of her late husband.

This is too funny. I have to laugh, and put in my two cents. KKNY, I'm inclined to agree with you. If we're talking insensitive, let's go with the movie that Sonny's last wife put together after he died that made Cher look bad. Do you think Sonny would have approved that movie? For goodness sake, Cher met Sonny when she was 16! He was a formative part of her life. He only became famous after they became a duet. They "made" each other. Then they divorced and Sonny began his own show, as did Cher. His was a flop. Hers was acclaimed. They then got back together professionally before finally splitting ways.

Do you think he would have become a congressman without her? Do you think she would have been as famous as she is without him?

They had history together! She met him when she was a child and he was nearly twice as old as her! Any second (third, fourth...) wife should be appreciative of that history, and if she really didn't want Cher to speak she shouldn't have had a memorial with A) Cher speaking and B) on national tv.

I hardly think she needed the spotlight. Her career was going well.

While I don't prefer her outfits, that's a part of the image that was created for her, both with Sonny and post Sonny. No worse than Madonna. It's show-biz, and has nothing to do with character. And, as for "boy-toys"... by the way, Sonny was boinking his secretary while Cher was pregnant. Oops.

I realize Cher had moved on. I feel her over reaction was more a need to be in the spot light not because she was hung up. The Ex who refuses to move comment on was in reference to this comment:

"Yet you and Ima hack hack hack at any and all Xs."

I don't have a problem with all Ex'x....just the ones who won't move on or who do not do right by their children because they are bitter over the failed relationship. I wasn't meaning to suggest Cher was "hung up". I was just correcting your above quote.

I'm just scanning today's posts re Sonny, Cher and The Widow Bono, so I haven't yet read ALL the details, but at a glance I can see the debate is basically whether or not it's disrespectful or wrong for an ex-wife to be present and/or part of funeral events/memorial/mourning activities after a man dies. Right now my thoughts are that ---like most things--- it really depends on the people involved and that EXTREMES are really the main things that should be deemed disrespectful. I think the dangers in a blanket rule that it's ALWAYS the right thing for the ex-wife to disappear from the mourning can be:

-it puts the deceased children from that marriage in a very uncomfortable position and may even, by association, make them feel vaguely like they are not welcome there either.

-it may even cause these children a lot of unnecessary aggravation and a feeling of isolation if their other parent is banned from events and they have to go there solo. Depending on circumstances, and especially if other members of the deceased's family, past etc. are excluded, the man's children may feel incredibly alone at their father's funeral.

-such a blanket rule seems to establish an automatically adversarial relationship between the ex-wife and the deceased and any of his relations. A rule that would state that the ex-wife's presence is automatically "disrespectful" implies that she is always inherently an adversary, as opposed to simply one among many individuals who have genuine concern and regard for the deceased, who have shared an important part of his life with him and who want to pay their respects. When the relationship between the ex-spouse and the deceased has been basically harmonious and worakable, it seems wrong and unfounded to exclude the ex-spouse.

Now, if the relationship has truly been extremely adversarial and the ex-wife has made inappropriate public scenes before, her presence would certainly RISK BECOMING disrespectful at the funeral, and some family members may more legitimately fear what she might pull. Whether or not they do the gracious thing and include her would have to be weighed against the risks of a base, ugly scene being caused at an occasion for honoring a person's life. I think it's safe to say that ANY person's real enemies, people who would be much more likely to speak ill of the person, would be a big risk at a funeral, etc. My feeling would be invite folks, but if any one of them starts to cause a scene, you have the right to kick them out WHEN & IF that happens.

Hopefully everyone is an adult and can modulate reasonably enough ---given the emotional circumstances--- an appropriate amount of time "in the spotlight" and not run roughshod over others' being able to express their own grief. No one can control anyone else's feelings, and there should be room for everyone who cared for the deceased to be able to express them, as long as it doesn't deprive others of the same right. In general, I feel that a lot of conflicts can be eliminated by all parties practicing inclusion and a philosophy of "there's room for everyone". One's presence doesn't have to take away from anyone else's presence unless a person allows it to make them feel smaller, or if one believes that there always has to be an either-or choice. If one widow feels "upstaged" by the other, the upstaged widow has choices: make an even bigger scene, complain about being upstaged but do nothing about it, plan a separate memorial that does not include the other widow, or just not worry about what the other widow is doing or how much attention she's getting in the first place and go on grieving as she naturally would.

Okay, those are my initial thoughts... now I'm going to go back and read all the details b/c I don't know yet what exactly the circumstances were or what Cher did or didn't do.

"Hopefully everyone is an adult and can modulate reasonably enough ---given the emotional circumstances--- an appropriate amount of time "in the spotlight" and not run roughshod over others' being able to express their own grief."

I think this is what I was saying all along. You just said it better. I don't think Ex shouldn't go to an Ex's funeral. On the contrary, they should go if nothing else to support the children in their grief of the loss of a parent.

However, I don't think it's right to be so loud and boustorous with your grievances that you cause a scene. I feel this is disrespectful to the current wife and the deceased's other family members. I think emotions are raw enough without the three ring circus act.

I know not everyone has the same relationship but in my case I would not have the tolerance for Amanda if something were to happen to J. I would devestated to say the very least. I would be over whelmed with grief and the near site of her would probably send me right over the edge. It would be so not a good idea on her part to bawling and throwing herself at the foot of his grave for sure. Maybe I am seeing it a little too much from my own perspective. In our situation the Ex wouldn't be welcomed by anyone in Jonathan's family so maybe it's hard for me to NOT view a very public mourning as an intrusion. Who knows.

More importantly why do we care...this is Sonny and Cher and we've managed to make it a huge moral debate. LOL!

okay, I see now that the question wasn't so much about attending funerals but the question of excessive displays, esp. regarding Cher.

I agree with you about excessive displays, but again, because it's so hard to fully control or predict emotional reactions, I'd find it disrespectful directly related to how much it actually truly *prevents* others from expressing *their* feelings freely. That is, if it becomes "all about them" at the expense of others. And also it's disrespectful (and just gross) if it's phony. That, I think, goes without saying.

Cher seems kind of an unusual and extreme case, mainly because of the mega-celebrity factor and the issue of media ratings. The fact is, Sonny & Cher were famous as a couple for years, and a viewing audience will be just as curious to hear Cher's response to his death (because they "know" Cher, as a celebrity) as they would be curious to hear about his wife at the time. Maybe even a bit more curious, not b/c Cher is any more important or legitimate, but just because they know The Widow Bono will be straight-up sad, whereas b/c they were divorced, Cher's reaction might have been more complicated, and therefore interesting to viewers. Celebrity also makes it a more extreme scenario emotionally because on top of it being the death (the SUDDEN death) of her first husband, it is the death of a person who shared with her the circumstances (their show) and years which made them both the most famous, so their relationship was really life-changing for them both in a very extreme way. And then of course we can't forget that Cher is a *performer*, in show business... I don't mean this in a necessarily derogatory way, but they are pretty much all Drama Queens. So I guess for Cher it makes more sense to be over-the-top with it than it would for the Drama Queens in our lives... (I know I am going to have to deal with one ---and already do--- in a major way in those circumstances, and even though she has every right ---as my Dad's wife and just as a person who was close to him--- to behave over-the-top, it IS still nauseating. It will be ---and already is--- "all about her". Not even all about her AND MY DAD, but HER.)

My guess -- just a guess -- is Sonny wanted his funeral to be a media circus. Someone invited her to do a eulogy. The fact is -- none of us know -- who wanted this -- but certainly either Sonny or his widow wanted Cher to do the euology, and likely had the song planned, and invited CNN, and the headstone. lets not put this on Cher. Unless you know more than I do.

What this is about to me, is some 2nd or 3rd wifes, thinking X should change name, get our of town, etc etc. That is overstepping boundaries.

(I know I am going to have to deal with one ---and already do--- in a major way in those circumstances, and even though she has every right ---as my Dad's wife and just as a person who was close to him--- to behave over-the-top, it IS still nauseating. It will be ---and already is--- "all about her". Not even all about her AND MY DAD, but HER.)

Death is such a hard and emotional thing in itself without the drama you mention in your above statement. I probably couldn't deal. I'll be the first to admit that if I had a nightmare SM I wouldn't want her at my father's funeral or at the very least I would want her to NOT be within hitting distance of me during the services.

I feel the same way about Jonathans EX. I would already be way too emotional and not in my right mind to deal with her. God willing J will live to be an old crabby man so this won't be an issue anytime soon.

My husband was married once before me & had no kids with her. If she wanted to come to his funeral, she's welcome. She was a part of his life and has every right to be there, even if they didn't have kids. However, as his wife... if she were to get up in front of all his family & friends and carry on about how he was the love of her life & that he made her the person she is today and she'll never get over it, etc., it would not be fine. If she feels that way, she's entitled to feel that way, but the time to share it is not at his funeral, in front of his wife, kids, family & friends. (and she is remarried, but who is to say my husband wasn't the love of her life?)

It's one thing to go to an ex's funeral and say nice things.. he was a wonderful father, he was a generous, kind & giving person... etc. but to turn it into 'he meant the world to me & I'll never get over him' puts a different spin on things.

I understand why Cher was involved and that his widow invited her, of course she would invite her stepchild's mother to the funeral. I believe she agreed for Cher to give her eulogy, but I doubt very much if she knew what Cher would say or how emotionally charged it would be. Cher is an actress and probably has more self control over showing emotion than the rest of us, yet her performance that day was flawless. You'd think she was the grieving widow and that is what I think was shameful. Who knows what the real widow felt or thought about it? But, I can remember thinking "this isn't about you!" in regard to Cher. That is just my perspective and I was only giving my opinion on that, not looking for a debate. I was certainly not saying ALL EX's fit in one category.

Ima, Sonny was to Cher the man she fell in love with at 16 (oops some of the crowd here thinks there was no love). I dont know who invited her to the funeral, but my guess is it more likely Sonny left this in his final instructions. My guess -- if Sonny was looking down at the funeral it was exactly what he wanted.

One must take anything and everything written on Wikipedia (or ANY Wiki) with a grain of salt. Anyone of us could write and article on there and say whatever we would like to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_writes_Wikipedia

All of these baseless assumptions about Sonny and Cher and Wikipedia quotes. Ayi yi yi..

Yes, but in the meantime some people feel free to dump all over her. And I have trouble belieivng she didnt give the eulogy and it isnt on his tombstone. I dont know why some people want to hack away at a former wife they diddnt know. Maybe they hate all former wives.

You can look on about.com also

Congressman Sonny Bono's funeral was broadcast live to millions of people on CNN, including Cher's emotional eulogy speech. The first part of the eulogy runs 4:49 minutes, the second 1:07 minutes.

and has the eulogy -- including --

"I want to close, but I wanted to tell Mary and Chesare and Chianna how proud I am of what he made himself after we were separated and his accomplishments. And I know that a person just doesn't decide to become a Congressman in the middle of their life and then be one. But it's just so typical of Sonny to do something so crazy like that. And also it puts my mind at peace to know that in the end of his days that he had such a wonderful family life. And I know how much he loved Mary and Chesare and Chianna. And I know how much they loved him. And also I know how much he loved his friends. He was the greatest friend. If you'd seen our house for the last five days--Mary's house for the last five days--we can't get rid of everybody. Everybody's just there, you know. And it's the way you would have wanted it. He would have been in the middle cooking--not eating, just tasting. And making everybody else eat. "

Cleary, this was an unusual relationship.

It also appears to me that this "press conference" that people kept talking about was the eulogy. Ima and Doodle -- you two talk about a press confrence -- was there one?

about.com pays pretty well. The more people look at those pages, the more the "guides" are compensated. It's quite the business for pretty much anyone that is a good writer.

http://beaguide.about.com/index.htm

I don't know Cher personally so I don't know what her motive may or may not have been. I've also not read her book "The First Time" but from a quick check on Amazon it appears she addressed Sonny's Eulogy. I personally would find her book more credible over any web page out there.

http://www.amazon.com/FIRST-TIME-Cher/dp/0684809001

I have fond memories of watching The Sonny and Cher Shows in my younger days.

So both about and wilki say the speach was an eulogy -- if you want to comment from the book, feel free.

When Ima quotes from Wilki, no one questions it. But if somehting might be regarded as favorable to an earlier wife, it is less beleivable. What I am saying is that if people are so anxious to attach earlier wife, it is a bias issue.

kk, I can't believe you are still commenting on this. Did you really spend ALL day researching Sonny & Cher? Lose the chip that's on your shoulder, why don't you? If I call ONE ex wife an idiot, it does not mean ALL ex wives are idiots. Thought we were past the blanket statements.

I gave my opinion on what I saw & from what I remember from watching it ten years ago. You didn't even watch it, according to you, so I don't even see why you would argue about it. You're right, it was the eulogy but it was broadcast repeatedly on the news & celebrity talk shows. The part that was repeatedly played seemed to be Cher, crying about how Sonny impacted her life, like it was all about her. Now, ten years ago when I watched it, I was in my 20's and remember thinking that she was stealing the spotlight and focusing on her, not Sonny. Perhaps it's just how I remember it. But, now that you post the actual words she used, I found it a bit, ummm, condescending??? that she said "I wanted to tell Mary and Chesare and Chianna how proud I am of what he made himself after we were separated and his accomplishments." and it may not have been meant that way, but it does come across that way. I'm sure Mary was quite proud of her husband, she didn't need Cher's stamp of approval. (but I may be reading too much into that)

When I quoted wiki, I was only quoting his marriage facts. If they are wrong, then correct me. I admit when I am wrong. In it's entirety, it might not have painted such a poor picture of Cher, but the clips that the media played over & over made her look like she was stealing the spotlight and playing the grieving widow. It wasn't an attack on all ex wives, it is MY perception of one event with ONE ex wife.

Ima, you suggested where to look for research -- and telling me I have a chip on my shoulder because I looked where you did? And you attack on one Xwife who seemed to have a good relatioinship with current wife. I guess there is no X wife who lives up to your standards.

I tell you, you have a chip on your shoulder because you think saying one thing about one person means a whole group of people are being 'attacked'. I gave my opinion on one person's behavior based on one incident, which I thought was a disgusting display of inappropriateness. It doesn't mean Sonny's wife would agree, she knows Cher better than I do. Cher doesn't need to live up to my standards & I'm glad if she has a good relationship with Sonny's widow.

and no, there ARE ex wives that live up to my standards. My husbands ex wife lives up to my standards... she doesn't butt into my marriage or bother my husband. She's moved on and is happily remarried, not at all worried about what my husband is doing. That's a good ex!

No, I said your and Doodle's attack of Cher was indicative of bias. And you two did attack her. So I disagree, I dont think I have a chip on my shoulder. I think thats just another way you have of going after people who dont agree with you.

and my mom thinks she was a wonderful mom! We can agree to disagree. Lots of people don't agree with me, they're entitled to. I'm not 'going after' anybody. I am just sharing my opinion. It's my opinion that you have a chip on your shoulder. It's your opinion I'm wrong.

If you think our 'attack' of Cher is indicative of bias, why is it seen as bias against a former wife, rather than bias against person that cashed in on a tragedy? My opinion has very little to do with her status as his ex wife.. but rather, I watched their show as a kid & the routine was for her to make fun of, criticize & basically use Sonny as her punch line. It worked, she was young & pretty and he made a good punch line. It was probably his idea and it made her famous. He wrote the songs that made them popular & when her fame took off, she divorced him. There may have been other reasons, but publicly, that is what happened. Privately, they may have been best friends, who knows? She didn't always talk nice about him and she flaunted around with all her much younger men, hanging on to youth every which way. He quietly lived his life & used what 'celebrity' he had to get into politics. Before he died, I don't recall that they had any sort of 'good' relationship and when he died, I was surprised at how emotional she got. It's my opinion that she may have felt guilty for the way she treated him. I may be wrong, they might have had a wonderful relationship/friendship, but as with many celebrity situations, the public only knows what publicists & the media want us to. But, just to be clear, my opinion of Cher has nothing to do with her being his ex wife, I haven't thought much of her throughout her career... for years before Sonny died. You don't have to agree, but I'm entitled to my opinion & it doesn't make it an attack.. and certainly doesn't make it an attack on all ex wives.

LOL - I'll be sure to tell my SM (who is an exW) and my divorced friends that they are bad people because Cher did something that was in bad taste.
Because that totally makes sense and is entirely what Ima and Doodle meant.

(please note sarcasm)

Back to the topic of names...

My Dad and SM used her grocery store club membership... But it was in her name from her previous marriage, we'll pretend it's Clark.
So when my dad used the card, they said "Have a nice day Mr. Clark" and it made my SM bonkers! She hated hearing him get called by her exH's name (though Dad didn't much care). So she threw out their card and got a new membership.
I thought it was cute that she was so worked up she got a new card to not hear her ex's name associated with her new life.

Ima, What evidence do you have that Cher "cashed in" on this? For all you know Mary Bono wanted the publicity to launch her brief political career, but I am not making any accusation like that. Its even possible Sonny wanted a dramatic funeral, and left instructions for such. Chers career was going great then. Yes, she and Sonny had a career togethor at one point. They broke up (with a few "reunion" events). After she went on to other writers, etc, her career, was going great - both acting and musical. . It appears she was asked to come to the funeral. First you complain you ignore widow. When I find text of speach, you then complain it was condescending. Is nothing other than Xwife dissapperaing from her Xs life going to make you happy? Is that what you mean by moving on? Becuase that apparently didnt work for the Bonos

If the person dies how mourning can be an intrusion? everyone has right to mourn over whomever they fell like. I think it is ridiclous for a wife to feel insecure at her DH's funeral. Especially if there are children involved or other family members.

Ima when children are involved, you cannot expect exes to completely dissapear. so there must be a different standard for exspouses who share children. at least for those who stay in children's lives.

FD, the standard is the same. Ex wives need to stay out of the ex husband's business and that of his new wife. PERIOD. They share a child/children. That it! They are not supposed to 'disappear', they are supposed to be involved in their child's life. **but there is also a limit to that involvement**

Mom has no more right to tell dad to give their daughter dessert, than dad has to tell mom not to take their daughter out to eat fast food every night. Those things DO affect their child, but those are lifestyle choices that each get to decide in their own house. When the parents have different lifestyles and/or values, then which parent has the overruling authority? Joint legal custody means it's equal, regardless of who has more physical custody. If they don't agree on those things, then it's best for them to stay out of each other's lifestyle and do their own thing, in their own homes and not worry what the other parent is doing unless they believe it's harmful to the child. And even then, if a court doesn't agree, there's not much they can do about it. But, when one parent uses the child to control what the other parent does in their own home, then they are overstepping and need to back off. (I'm talking about house rules, meals, vacations, etc.)

If one parent has the right to make the other parent change their lifestyle because it affects THEIR child, I'd love to know where that could/would be enforced. My husband would love it if his ex didn't feed THEIR daughter nothing but fast/junk food, my husband would love it if his ex would stop dressing THEIR daughter in what he thinks is inappropriate clothes for a 8 or 9 year old, My husband would love it if his ex didn't let THEIR daughter listen to nasty *unedited* rap songs that she loaded onto an MP3 player for THEIR daughter to listen to whenever she wants. My husband would love it if his ex didn't let THEIR daughter stay up all night, after mom goes to bed, watching TV (who knows what she's watching) or playing video games with mom's BF's preteen (hormonal?) sons. There's a lot of things my husband 'has a problem with' but he also knows that BM is going to do what SHE wants in her house. The few times he did bring up things like her letting her daughter sleep on the bed with his sons, she told him to mind his own F***ing business. But, then tells him what she thinks is 'unacceptable' in OUR house. Things like not giving THEIR daughter dessert or soda. So, to answer your question finedreams, I think that ex's should mind their own business and focus on their child, not what the other parent is doing all the time. Other things my SD's mom has concerned herself with: How much my wedding ring cost? What I do for a living? (and it wasn't a safety concern, it was how much money I make) What kind of music MY 18 year old daughter listens to. What time MY 19 year old son goes to sleep. What I cook for dinner. What I pack in SD's lunch. What I make for breakfast. Where we go on vacation. (and what we did) She's also sabotaged & tried to sabotage two trips we planned by making SD unavailable at the last minute. Never calls her daughter but if we are on a trip/vacation or doing something fun, she'll call several times to ask her daughter what we are doing? SOME ex's need to GET A LIFE. NOT ALL ex's, Just SOME!

Cher
Eulogy for Sonny Bono
delivered 9 January 1998 in Palm Springs, California
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/chereulogytosonnybono.htm
Please excuse my papers, but I've been writing this stupid eulogy for the last 48 hours. And,
of course, I know that this would make Sonny really happy. It's like Den said: "He got the last laugh on you."
So because I've had to write some of it down doesn't mean that I'm unprepared. It just means that I'm over prepared in that this is probably the most important thing I've ever done in my life. Don't pay any attention [weeping].
This is probably going to happen from time to time. And I also know that he is some place loving this.... Also, I have to wear the glasses that I made so much fun of him. I called him Mr. Magoo. I said, "You know, you've got to get some better glasses. You know, I don't care if you're Republican or not, you've got to look cooler than this." So now I have to wear the glasses that I make fun of him for saying. There are a couple of things -- I want to tell some stories -- but there are a couple of things I really want to get perfect for him. So I have to read....
Some people were under the misconception that Son was a short man, but he was heads and tails taller than anyone else. He could see above the tallest people. He had a vision of the future and just how he was going to build it. And his enthusiasm was so great that he just swept everybody along with him. Not that we knew where he was going, but we just wanted to be there. He was also successful at anything he ever tried. Not the first time he tried maybe, but he just -- he kept going. If he was really -- But if he really wanted something, he kept going until he achieved it....Once he told me that, when he was a teenager, he got his nose broken six times because he used to get into fights with guys that were much bigger than him. And he said that they would just be beating the crap out of him and would just be keep going back and going back and going back. I said, "Well, why?" And he said, "Because eventually I would just wear them down." And if you know him, we all got worn down.
Some people thought that Son wasn't very bright, but he was smart enough to take an introverted 16-year-old girl and a scrappy little Italian guy with a bad voice and turn them into the most successful and beloved couple of this generation. And some people thought that Son wasn't to be taken seriously because he allowed himself to be the butt of the jokes on the Sonny and Cher show. What people don't realize is that he created Sonny and Cher. And -- And he knew what was right for us, you know? He just always knew the right thing. And he wanted to make people laugh so much that he had the confidence to be the butt of the joke because he created the joke.
When I was 16 years old, I met Sonny -- Salvatore Philip Bono. And the first time I ever saw him, he walked in this room. And I had never seen anything like him before in my life. Because he was Sonny way before we were Sonny and Cher. He had this thing about him. He walked into this room, and I swear to God I saw him and like everybody else in the room was just washed away in this soft kind of focus filter -- kind of like when Maria saw Tony at the dance. And -- And I looked at him, and he had like this weird hair-do between Caesar and Napoleon. As a matter of fact, one of the first things that he ever told me was that he was a descendent of Napoleon, and that his father had shortened the name of Bonaparte to Bono when they came to this country. But that he didn't want to make too big of a deal out of this. Now you have to realize, at this time, he was talking to a girl who thought that Mount Rushmore was a natural phenomenon. So we were definitely a marriage made in heaven....
I lied to him about how old I was. I've told this story, but somehow it always keeps coming back. I told him that I was 18, and of course I wasn't. I was the most bizarre 16-year-old that you probably would come across. I had all kinds of phobias and all kinds of insecurities and all kinds of energies that just couldn't be harnessed. Except Son saw something. And I didn't have a place to stay and he said, "You know, you can come and live with me because I have twin beds and really I don't find you attractive." I didn't really know how to take it, but I was really glad to have a place to stay.
And when people would call or come over and say, "Who's that girl?" "Oh, that's just Cher." We spent this whole time together and I was just Cher. I was this kid and he kind of took care of me. I told my mom I was living with a stewardess. And every time that my mom would call, I always said, "Mom, call me before you come over." Every time my mom would call, I'd grab all of Sonny's clothes and run down the street and throw all his clothes into my girlfriend's living room window. And I lost most of his clothes that year. One time he came into the house and he had his jockey shorts in his hand and he said, "Cher, you've just got to stop doing this. I found these on the street."
So nothing happened with us romantically until my mom made me move out. When I was packing my things, we both just looked at each other and we started crying and I didn't even know why. And then I just realized once I was there that I just missed him so much -- I was so used to him being a part of my life. And I also had to tell him at that time that I wasn't 18. That I was 17, but I was about to turn 18. And when we were crying -- he actually cried too -- I said, "Well, I'm not 17 about to turn 18. I'm 16 about to turn 17, but I can't go through the rest of my life without you. So if my mother threatens to put you in jail, could you just do it anyway." So my mother kept threatening him all that year. But then I turned 18 and everything was all right.
I want to close...but I wanted to tell Mary and Chesare and Chianna how proud I am of what he made himself after we were separated and his accomplishments. And I know that a person just doesn't decide to become a Congressman in the middle of their life and then be one. But it's so typical of Sonny to do something so crazy like that. And also it puts my mind at peace to know that in the end of his days that he had such a wonderful family life. And I know how much he loved Mary and Chesare and Chianna. And I know how much they loved him. And also I know how much he loved his friends. He was the greatest friend. And if you'd seen our house for the last five days -- Mary's house for the last five days -- we can't get rid of everybody. Everybody's just there, you know. And it's the way he would have wanted it. He would have been in the middle cooking -- not eating, just tasting. And making everybody else eat.
So the last thing I want to say is, when I was young, there was this section in the Reader's Digest. And it was called "The Most Unforgettable Character I've Ever Met." And for me that person is Sonny Bono. And no matter how long I live or who I meet in my life, that person will always be "Son" for me.
Thank you.

If anyone doesnt think it WILDLY inappropriate for Ex wife sharing when she became ROMANTICLY INVOLVED WITH SONNY while giving her EX HUSBANDS EULOGY in front of HIS PRESENT wife and 2 children Yikes!!!! Also remember seeing the eulogy (and still being married, no EX bias at that time,) felt Cher was WAY over the line with Sonnys poor widow..Also noted OUR house.... um Marys house(at least she corrected herself)Also Ex is free to mourn in her own way, geez, send a donation to charity in his name, do not trespass on my grief in the name of your children...You would be an unrelated party that I would not wish to see at that time.....In my case only, of course..All civilized gracious Exs should be able to attend otherwise...

ima, I don't know what you are talking about. I don't know about everyday things like packing lunches. I never cared about minor things, neither did X. Both you and BM are very involved in each other family' lives. She wants her X (your Dh) to attend her wedding, and you bake her cakes. You call and talk to her BF's exwife and you know what she buys or what kind of sexual preferences she has (swinging or what you said). I would consider all of this to be overly involved and overly interested in each other's lives by my standards. This kind of involvement is extreme. But there are ways of involvement that i consider not extreme. Everybody decides what is appropriate.

I think it is appropriate for my X to call me and discuss what I think of DD's college grades and if they are good enough in my opinion because he is unsure. DD tells him they are fine but he is not clear on that(she attends college wiht a different grading system). I don't think I should hang up the phone just because we are divorced or DD does not live at home. If however X's wife called a third party and asked about my whereabouts I would be angry. Complete dissaparance is extreme but too much involvement is extreme tooshould remain in each other lives in some balanced appropriate way.

oops, my post got cut up. ending should say that people who share children should remain in each other lives in balanced appropriate way.

Hi Finedreams:
"people who share children should remain in each other lives in balanced appropriate way"

I agree completely. It's really hard to find the balance, but I try, every day!! My DD calls her dad nearly everyday and I try to fill him in for a few minutes if there is something going on. Otherwise, I try to email because it's less volitile. I also help her and encourage her to call his parents, and his sister, and arrange to meet them whenever they have the free time (which is not very often, otherwise I'd have to probably set some sort of boundaries).

We attempt to be friendly (not friends!) but civil and considerate of the fact that the other is also our child's parent.

The only thing I would consider asking him to cook for or him asking me to cook for would be our DD's party/event. I'd never ask him for anything personal like that, although I may ask him for a recipe or vice versa.

"people who share children should remain in each other lives in balanced appropriate way."

anybody ever read the books of Pearl S Buck?

She was born to missionary parents in China, & she wrote wonderfully sensitive & enlightening novels about China.

I think it was in Pavillion of Women that the main character & her husband always addressed each other with great respect as "mother of my children" & "father of my children"...
even after she retired from sexual activity due to the dangers of pregnancy at her age & he took a younger wife.

Even when they disagreed, they *always* reminded themselves & each other that the other person was the reason they had their children.

I thought that was civilized.