I love ambition and would be happy to look at your idea, but I just can't picture it from your description. Got a sketch?

Drawers are only difficult to make if you do not understand the squaring steps. A drawer is simply a box with no top or bottom---the bottom slides in place in a dado instead of being fastened to the sides.

The box has to be squared on two planes---top/bottom corner to top/bottom corner and upper to to lower bottom corners.

The joinery is a bit critical for what your propose---as the resulting unit will be heavy and since one whole 'drawer' side will be hinged, that means additional support for the rest of each 'drawer' case will need to be added.

Making the drawer bottoms 3/4" thick and an integral part of the box---instead of the traditional slide in 1/4" bottom pieces.

Actually building what you want---as a DIY project---will require a minimum of a table saw---at least a good contractor style($500-$1200) and better still a cabinet saw($900-$1500+?----or a sheet goods saw/straight edge guide and a contractor saw, a router/w table, clamps longer than the longest drawer dimension----lots of clamps will enable you to build many boxes at a time.

I would add inside corner gussets at each stationary corner---glued and screwed for minimum structural stability.

Use birch plywood----often the HD/Lowes stuff is sufficient.

Study a couple of books on cabinetry---there are lots of case frame requirements and those books will show how to do most of what you need.

Mistakes will happen---I do things like that as a part of my job---and usually add 10-20% to material lists----you can return extras.

Study first and decide if you want to tackle the work---if you want to, you can do it---eventually if not sooner. :)

Thank you both, I will try to put up a sketch of what I am designing, I have month or so till I expect to start this. But the easiest way to describe it is, . . .take a standard drawer, really big drawer; turn it on its side, add a 2x slat from front to back of what was the top and is now the side (back stays back, front stays front), attach the glides using the slat on one side and what was the bottom but is now a side for the other. So when it is pulled out, one will have to step to one side of it to pick out what one wants. The other side would be solid, no hinges, doors, nothing. The "open" side would have shelves, cubbies, and perhaps some drawers.

I will be doing this no matter so . . . , have the table saw (Ryobi) plus three other quality power saws, have three 24" clamps and a dozen that use pipes (as long as I need) since I just pegged, glued, and clamped the wood countertop (see thread "Proper use of hand plane"), have laminate trimmer and plunge router. Tools are my friends and one reason I am doing this is to justify all my tools. :)

What model Ryobi saw?

The reason I ask this is from expereince. I once owned a BT3000---now the BT3100. This is actually a benchtop saw on legs. I did use it for cutting down plywood---but had another person helping and also had two roller stands---which regularly fell over. It is not a good saw for cutting large pieces of plywood.

The other Ryobi saws are plainly too small and light to attempt plywood---unless they are set in a table for outfeed and side support. The HfH chapter I did several years of volunteer work for tried using two different models on build sites with no success at all.

The danger is twofold---the saws move/tip easily---which means the plywood will jamb and tear up both the saw and the ply. The other danger is to the operator when the saw falls/moves.

However, using the circular saws to cut pieces to approximate size---and making the final trim to size cuts on the table saw will be the safest way to do what you need.

Study up and let us know how you do!!

Okay, I have Ryobi 3100, so far I have had no problem, but have not cut a large sheet, only the long purple heart for the countertops. So your idea of cutting roughly with my 51/4 circular saw would be good. . .

From my shop I have a table that is on wheels and is exactly the height of the saw table, 4'x6' and very stable, so I belly it up to the side the saw for weight support on wider pieces, off the back for long pieces.

If necessary, I can hire from the local temp agency to have another set of hands handy. But your idea of cutting rough first, should keep me from having pieces too large for me to handle within the constraints I have.

From your description it sounds like you are asking for a slide out shelf, which extends from the bottom of the cabinet to the top. You acess these from the sides rather than the front. Am I correct? May I ask why? It seems to me a sliding shelf that you can adjust in height, would be more useful, now and in the future. These sliding shelves can be adjusted in height as your needs change. Crock pots, large pans, etc, can all be stored in these "sliding shelves". If you use metal KV standards, you can use KV 1303 slide out shelves "blocks" to attach the drawer slides to. These will allow you to adjust the shelves every 1/2", they are strong, easy to use and allow the proper clearance for hinges or face frames.
I agree with breaking down the large sheets into more managable sheets to run through your table saw.

Yup, it sounds like you're describing an oversized spice rack on steroids. Those work well on uppers, but on lowers I don't think it's going to help save you much bending over. I think either regular drawers or pullouts would be more practical.

Here's a photo of pullouts, which reside behind doors. You could make the sides higher and add dividers if you wanted.

And here's a photo of pot drawers. With full extension glides on these and the pullout shelves you'd have no problems reaching the way back sections.

Tom999, I didn't know such thing existed, I have searched and see what the piece looks like and it might be an option, I will definitely see if I can find something in town that I can lay my hands and eyes on to see if will do as well as I hope.
Thank you and yes, you seem to have gotten the gist of my idea. Even if I don't use your idea in its entirety, it has still nudged me into making sure any shelves I put in the lower cab should be adjustable.

Tom999 and chiefneil, the main reason I had imagined my design the way I did was because this way I am actually making few drawers and I felt that would be easier, plus as I mentioned earlier, it makes every section of the cabs useful as another worktop when pulled out.

It isn't the bending that bothers me, it is the diving into the far back recesses of lower cabs that drive me nuts; plus when trying to get to anything way down and back there, 2/3 of the stuff in the way has to be removed from the cab to get to the thing in the way back, then reloaded. THEN after using and washing the item, I have to go through it all again to put it away. In my imagination, this design will pull the "way back there" stuff to me and ALL I have to do is bend.

Okay, I get what you're describing now. I, too, think it may not be as good an idea as you imagine, but we're not talking about my kitchen. If you want something novel, more power to you.

However, your mention that "the drawer is supposed to have a tendency to want to be shut and therefore a 1-5 degree upward tilt would be required" tells me you aren't familiar with drawer glides and may not have ever built even a standard drawer before, which in turn tells me that you're probably getting in over your head. That said, why not go ahead and try building a prototype from some cheap materials? Even if you end up with a pile of scrap it will have been a good learning experience, and you won't have lost so much as if you'd tried doing a whole kitchen's worth of these off the bat.

Tom999, I have looked at the specs on the glides you recommend and I am not comfortable with a 35# rating on drawers that might be holding things like cast iron pots and pans, but thanks for the idea.

Jon1270,my thought on the tilt was that in one of my houses some of my "custom built" (not like these will be custom built, but what contractors call custom built)drawers used to close then bounce back and stay about a 1/2 in open, when they came to solve the problem, they basically dropped the back of the glides by about an 1/8 of an inch and ta Da! no more problems. Now maybe that means they were tilted wrong in the first place. . . I checked to see what they did, but didn't take a level to it.

No I have never built a drawer in my life. So yes, that is one reason I am planning of asking high and low and reading every thing I can find so that my first mock up will be a success, or otherwise saying that I want to only have to make one mock up, not many mock ups; because I AM MAKING at least one working and installed, to see if I like it, if not, I'll pull it and go back to normal. . . I live here alone so if it takes being stalled with only one cabinet for a test period, I can handle that.

I think this is the other reason I have to do all of this myself, I want to taste test everything. Make a bit, see if reality lives up to my imagination, what pitfalls didn't I anticipate and so on. . . contractors hate that. I am willing for it to take five years to completely move the kitchen from it current room to the new room. I am currently living in what I call camping rules. . . I have a clean working bedroom, one clean working bathroom (though #2 is in its final bits and should be back online by xmas), and the old kitchen won't be dissassembled till the new one is up and running smoothly. Otherwise, every room is either a workroom with sawing and stuff stacked everywhere (my shop is a darkroom so don't ask why I don't use it, it has to stay absolutely pristine for me to do my job), or it is being remodeled or demo'd for a remodel.

To think I used to be the biatch on the block that had the Better Homes and Garden kind of cleaned every day, everything neatly put away homes till I bought and started remodelling this one. . . most folks who know me, just look and shake their heads at me, but man, I have never had so much fun!

1/8" over the length of a typical drawer slide is less than half a degree. Anyhow, most drawer slides have a built-in mechanism to keep the drawer shut. Whatever was wrong with your old cabinets' drawers, I'm glad they fixed it so easily.

Even if you don't like Tom's 35# slides, there are plenty of 100# slides that would work. 500# is just silly unless you and a friend are planning to table-dance on them.

I doubt you'll like having littler drawers opening from the sides of the big drawers, though the novelty value would be significant. The first time you try to close the big drawer while the little one is still open, you'll damage the drawer, the slide and/or the face of the adjacent cabinet, which will suck the fun right out of it.

Knock yourself out. Have fun. Don't be afraid to ask for troubleshooting help.

Oh, good point, I hadn't thought of damage to the extra drawers, okay, I will design them out and solve my utensils type drawer into something different. . .thanks these are the type of nudges I need! You folks rock!

Ooops, I forgot to address the 500# overkill. Now imagine you are a little short, what do we shorties do? We use open lower cabinets as step-ups to reach into the upper cabs, and this design will really lend itself well to that concept, so I figure for the extra $100 per pair, it is worth the overkill and a wise place to spend some of what I am saving doing it myself.

Drawers are not too hard once you practice. I built an office that had wrap around desks, drawers, and lots of cabinets. Just accept that you will have to fuss with the first 1 or 2 drawer slides you install to get them perfectly level before you get the hang of it. Be sure to use your level at all steps of installing the drawers and slides.

I'm not a pro builder, just an intermediate DIYer. The easiest slides to install were the kind that attach to the sides of the drawer box, not the kind that attach to the face frame and the back of the box. Those were too hard to reach and screw in, because you are continuously reaching in to adjust the level of the slides.

We didn't use pulls on the drawers we just undercut every edge on the face part of the drawer.

This thread is difficult to read because of the large size of the photos, so if I am repeating someone elseÂs thoughts, my apologies.

I prefer the all drawer concept of lower cabinets. I think fixed shelves are a joke for the very reason you stated. I would also recommend you do frameless cabinets, and use the 32mm system. That way you can use the holes on the sides of the cabinet to adjust your pull out shelve position to fit your cookware and appliances.

Frameless cabinets also make better use of your space by using more of the width of the cabinet. I donÂt understand why they are not as popular as framed cabinets. They are certainly no harder, if not easier to construct.

olphart (love the handle) I haven't seen anything relating to frameless cabinets, so I guess I better go looking. Do you have any links you might be able to share or pics?

I went to see what you were mentioning, and by chance, the design in my head was based on a platform bed with deep, big drawers; and it happens to be frameless. So they will be frameless, but I am not being able to get in to see what the diff between frameless and 32mm frameless. I tried
www.true32.com and a few others, but it is all for sales so not much in visual or even verbal comparison. I can sign up for classes, buy books, even browse supplies and hardware; but cannot find a place that shows the diff.

They probably have frameless cabinets at Home Depot, or just about any cabinet store. If you are unclear of the concept, just open your cabinet doors and imagine the frame being removed. The new doors would be large enough to cover the entire opening.

Frameless normally require different hinges  the so-called European-style hinges. Since the sides of the doors of the cabinets are nearly touching when closed, these hinges allow the door to come out a bit on the hinge side to clear the adjacent door.

I bought a supply of drawer slides and hinges from Woodworker's Supply. You might check them out. They also show drawings of the different applications. The hinges differ in the way they open and the angle in which they open. If you have cabinets with pullouts, you would want a hinge that opens wide enough to let the shelf clear the door. Some hinges open at a less than 90° angle.

I could give you some links, but I would suggest you Google "Frameless Cabinets" and "32mm Cabinets" and check out a number of the sights. If you have more questions, just ask. You can e-mail me if you like.

Rainidame, I think I confused you. A 32mm System is a type of frameless system. Simply stated, the shelf pin holes on the insides of the cabinets are 32mm apart so that parts using the holes can be used in all 32mm cabinets.

You can make the holes an inch apart, half inch, or whatever distance you choose. 32mm is simply a standard.

OIC, then we are set. Since I won't be having an regular doors (oops, I guess I will under the sink,huh?), okay I'll need one set of four hinges, and I am familiar with the european style. The drawer glides I have chosen are at

ovisonline.com and are commercial 500# since I am gliding a whole cabinets worth, which may also end up used as a step-up to reach upper cabs.

Thank you again for your attention and advice.

"32 mm" is the size of the hole required for mounting the european hinges.......

All the euro hinges I've used (Blum) required a 35 mm hole, not 32 mm. Conveniently, 35 mm is only a couple thousandths of an inch from 1 3/8", which is an easier/cheaper bit to find and works fine.

OH! Now I understand the 32mm. . .thanks again guys.

32mm is the center to center spacing for the holes inside the cabinet.

Here is a link that might be useful: 32mm System

Rainidame, check out this site!

Here is a link that might be useful: Lee Valley 32mm System

olphart! Great Site, and what great l'l setup they got to make it so much easier. Well, it appears anyway won't know till I try, this just zoomed to the top of the what to buy next list. YOU ROCK!

I'll check back in a few hours, looks like the entire LeeValleyTools site is quite the find. . . getting dreamily lost it in! I want one of those, and one of these, oh! I so rather have tools than shoes...or makeup. . . okay, food comes first, then tools! lol

Rainidame, as you probably realized, you can use that system on both lower and upper cabinets. You can also use it on bookshelves as well.

OK, now that you have things figgered out, lemme throw another idea at you. Have you ever considered making lower cabinets that are 32" deep rather than the standard 24"? What you do is build the lower carcasses 24" deep, but mount them 8" away from the wall. Then you make your drawers and pullout drawers 30" or 31" deep. You can still use 24" drawer slides, but mounted at the front of the pullout.

Your countertops would be a standard 26" deep. The space between the back on the counter and the wall could be shelves, cubby holes, swingout units  all 8" deep. You could even store staples or appliances like a toaster, mixer, blender, etc. I realize you are somewhat short of stature, but, if you can reach the backsplash, you can reach items stored in this extended area.

As and added benefit, your upper cabinets could extend depth of your upper cabinets by as much as 8". Of course, you have to have a kitchen big enough to accommodate the additional depth.

Oh, olphart, one reason I am making all of this is because the island is a six ft quarter round huge thing. To use the space underneath well I will have lower cabinets ranging from 53 to 24", also the reason I decided to go with the commercial glides, they actually have these long sizes with high weight ratings.

Since I am making the counters out of purple heart, I can make them any size and I had planned on 32" without cubbies for the non-island counters, just 32". Again I can find glides to accomdate this as well. And yes the upper cabs are going to be 14 to 20" wide as I have keyholed (cut out every other one)the stud sections above the counter height on the interior walls so that the upper shelves/cabs will follow the cutouts giving a varied space. OH! now that I think of it, the counter will be cut to fit the cutouts also, so in some areas it will be nearly 38" deep, but I was going to make some appliance garages in those parts.

Rainidame, your plans sound fascinating. I hope you keep us updated with the progress with photos. I also wish I was helping you do the work, of course, with you paying me to do so. I need the work!

Olphart, I have tried to hire a couple of folks, paid good wages I thought too, $20/hr, but I guess I am just too difficult to work for because no one shows up the third day. They do fine till it comes down to my way or their way, and since I'm the boss, and its my house; I insist on my way, so they take the hiway. I think they all have problems thinking a little WOMAN like me could know anything more than they, and they start arguing and such; so to save time and $$. . .I will end the argument by immasculating them. Don't want to choose that but if I try to be "nice" about it, the arguments have gone on for hours. "you can't do that!", . . . "I already am, now grab that corner!" This sort of thing goes on and on, till I finally get cranky and cut 'em off at the balls. Oh, well, I can get it done myself it just takes WAAAAAY longer.

OMG! I'm one step closer to starting the island cabinets. . . got the 3/4" high density particle board today. Errg, but part of it is to install a new floor in the bathroom, which has to come first, errrr. Don't worry the particle board is for the test run then the template, not the finished product, I will probably use the birch plywood as recommended above.

But I am sooo excited. . . and nervous. . .soon I should know if I can make it work as planned.

Just skimmed through the thread and thought I'd add some thoughts. I've built a lot of furniture, including drawers, but when remodeling my kitchen I bought a lot of things online and reworked them. You can buy really good quality dovetailed drawers (I used MapleCraftUSA.com) and the price isn't exhorbitant at all. The carcasses are easy and the newer Euro type drawer glides & hinges are easier than they used to be. HD has good prices on full extension glides for most purposes, too. It seems to me that you haven't yet looked at many of the newer customized features they have for cabinets now. Do some more "shopping" before you start and you may come up with some ways to customize without so much effort.

rainidame: I suggest checking out Ikea for ideas and seeing a lot of frameless cabs. The kitchen cabinetry all uses Blum full extension glides. They may also have the soft close Blumotion which closes automatically when the drawer is a few inches away. Also, I think it is Shelves-that-Slide that offers custom after market pull-outs with a high side option.

My lowers are all full extension drawers; no pull-outs; no doors with shelves. My 24" sink cabinet is a drawer as well. The full height door is braced on the sides because the drawer is only 6" deep with a shallow moon routed in the back to accomodate the disposal. I pull it out for my trash and to reach to cleaning supplies and dishwasher detergent.

Come on over to the Kitchen Forum for more ideas. One person is recycling old metal file cabinets to use as cabinets.

I went through almost this same thing when Garden Of Darwin and I made our breakfast room into a Kitchen annex. I justified the purchase of several nice additions to my tool collection specifically for the creation of the cabinets, but when the amount of time required was explained, she suddenly wanted to look at buying some or all of what was needed. I was *NOT* impressed by the quality of the HD/Lowes/Kraftmade cabs, but I *was* impressed by Ikea's version. The BLUM hardware is REALLY nice, and their pull out pantries/drawers are incredible at the prices they charge. Since you assemble them yourself (pretty easy) they lend themselves VERY well to DIY modifications. My wife loved them so much she created a whole IKEA (mostly kitchens) website that has FAR more info on it than IKEA's site does. Take a look, you'll probably be able to get want you want for a lot less than you've seen in the showrooms, and there are a LOT of folks on the site that have done some fairly extensive modifications...

I still got a planner, 8 Bessey K-Body clamps and a few other tools out of the deal.. Heh.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ikeafans

You may have moved on, but I -think- this is similar to your "vertical drawer accessed from the side" pullouts.


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