"were you involved in a custody battle? otherwise why did she email you, how did she even know your email address??? "

Yes, DH and BM were in court for over two years. They had just settled everything when the drunk thing happened and that's when DH took her BACK to court and re-filed, and gor residential custody.

Who knows why she emailed me? Because I was there and she wanted to make it clear that SHE was SS's mom, and she felt threatened by me, whatevr. I can't reason it. She's just one of the cruelest, most vindictive, nasty, malicious people I have EVER met. At the hieght of their battle, I probably got a hundred nasty emails from her over the year. When I blocked her email, she'd set up a fresh account and email from that. The ONLY thing that works with that is IGNORING HER.

BM got my email address about six years ago off an email forward from one of DH's sisters---both my email and BM's were on it. SIGH.

I used to really let her stuff bother me. Now, well, I'll be honest, it still does, but I try to let it roll off my back.

That email I gave as an example is how she used to be when she was drinking; I have not received anything that nasty since the restraining order.

At this point, I almost wish she WOULD so I would have even more substantiated proof that the woman is off her rocker.

"I have a strong feeling that if BM is being this crazy towards you again, her behavior when she is with SS is not entirely normal either"

She is definitely not. For the first three-four years of SS's life, BM mentally manipulated him. She would literally tell him things like "your dad loves Love and her DD more" or "you don't have to listen to your teacher or I will kick her @$$ if she makes you lie down at nap time" or "you're scared of your dad when he puts you in time out, aren't you?"

She was so full of bitterness, anger, and resentment that she would do anything to make sure SS's loyalties aligned with her.

Lasdt night, when we did get home, SS called his mom to say goodnight and she reamed him out. DH said he could hear him sayig over and over "I'll try to remember to call next time, Mom, I'm sorry." Except the thing is---she can't PLAY SS anymore. He's grown and matured a lot and he actually doesn't let her control him.

His tone of *apology* was not one of guilt or sadness but of irritation and exasperation. I think BM will shoot herself in the foot here--the older SS gets, the more he sees just how *crazy* her behavior is.

I would start by blocking her from your cell. I know on mine there is an option where I can send someone directly to voicemail when they try calling so my phone never actually rings. If yours does not have that option I would just press the hang up button on your cell each time she calls. This way she can keep leaving her nasty messages and give you ammo. The first time she makes a threat you go right to the police station and play the message for them.

BM is a nut! Poor ss has to deal with her, but DH does not. He needs to grow a pair of you know what and put bm in her place instead of playing mr. nice guy. He needs to call her or text her saying the other night was unacceptable and if she pulls a stunt like that again then he will restrict her to one call per day with ss when he is with you guys. And then he needs to stick to his word! He keeps bending and doing favors for bm and excusing her insane behaviors which is giving her the green light to continue them. She knows she does not have to control her temper because your dh has no backbone when it comes to her. She can do/say what she wants and then HE will try to smooth things over by being nice. It is a sick cycle.

Wow.

1. Write a letter to the school. Get it notarized if necessary. Tell them under no conditions are they ever to give out any personal information about you, about your DD to ANYONE.

2. Save the message, play it for the lawyer, get it transferred to some sort of legal document/documentation.

3. Explain to your blockhead DH that this is not acceptable and that if he cannot rein in his psychotic ex-wife you will have no other choice than to protect your family as you see fit. This is the last straw. This is abuse. It's not ok.

4. Block her # from your cell.

5. Your daughter is perfectly within the spectrum of "normal". There is nothing wrong with a kid still wetting the bed. And even with wetting the bed she still has better control of herself than BM. My dd "forgets" to use the bathroom and pees her pants at least once a week. It drives me crazy, but I know she'll outgrow it. So will your DD. As a Girl Scout leader, believe me we see it all... and there are girls who are 10-12 years old still in pull-ups.

"5. Your daughter is perfectly within the spectrum of "normal". There is nothing wrong with a kid still wetting the bed."

Thanks Silver. :) I know it....especially back with this email...DD was six at the time.

I have a whole FILE on my computer of emails from BM--we compiled everything and took it to the GAL last year. I think they, plus some nasty voicemails we played for him, cemented DH winning residential custody.

I would love for DH to take BM's sorry butt back to court, but the problem is---even though this stuff seems so outrageous and unacceptable to US, the courts see it differently. They would see BM's behavior as immature and juvenile, no doubt, but unless we could DIRECTLY prove that it affects SS, then we don't have much.

I think DH needs to just be hyper vigilant now because I do think BM is on the verge of losing it. All the classic signs are there that she's a)drinking or b) about to drink.

I can't believe her! I don't know why her tyrade shocks me so much, but it's like a never-ending thing with her!

Love, please protect yourself and your DD. You don't have any say over SS and DH, but you have to go back into b*tch mode. Female dogs are b*tches because they protect their babies with a fierceness...even from the people they love. That's what you have to do.

I agree with everyone on this board that this woman is crazy and is on the verge of something. She may be dealing with post-partum depression and (along with her already being unstable) is very volitile.

The ONLY reason you had any peace for 10ish months is because she was pregnant. That's it! She can't stay pregnant and nice for forever.

--"but unless we could DIRECTLY prove that it affects SS, then we don't have much".--

The phone calls, texts, and emails directly affects SS. Maybe not custody, but in his homelife with DH/you while he is spending his 50/50 with your family.

I'd use that to adjust the arrangements in BM's contact with SS while he is in DH/your care. She keeps your home in uproar, screams at SS if DH/you don't let her rule your home, ect.

I'd go after limited contact. SS can, if desired, call/contact his mother at will any time he wants...but she can only call him once a day at a set time. Something along those lines.

It does affect SS. What BM needs to call and intrude whenever and for whatever reason she wants just because she wants.

And I'd also look into a 2nd RO, this lady hates you and if you adjust her calling time allowence, she'll hate you even more.

I fear the day may come when she turns violent crazy on SS like she did you in one of her crazy spells as he grows older and begins to resent her crap...whether she's drunk at the time, off her meds or going through a cycle of behavorial swings. She's scary. Document, document, document.

Justmetoo, I forwarded what you wrote to my DH. I have mentioned that to him before. When SS was really little, he was BM's *baby.* She was sooo possessive of him---I have spent the better part of the last two days reading over my huge file of emails from BM and in so many of them, she signs them *SS'S REAL MOMMY* and makes all these comments about how I better not forget I'm not his mother, I'm "nothing," etc etc.

Then as he has gotten older, he's grown closer to me. BM has said---in her good moods---that she loves knowing he is well cared for at our house and that it's great that he has so many people who love him--but in her dark moods, that jealousy is still there.

As he gets older, he has seen her more realistically. While he loves her dearly, as she is his MOM, he also seems to keep her at more of a distance. He's definitely not the mama's boy he used to be. Some of that is probably just an age thing, and the fact that he is no longer physically her baby, but I also think a part of it is because he has witnessed her doing some scary, crazy things.

I do worry that as he stands up to her more and more--which he's already done, ie when he wanted to go on spring break with ME and DD, even though DH wasn't going--she will start to lash out at him. I can see it happening, i really can.

I also think everyone is on to something with the PPD stuff. It's MUCH too coincidental. That was honestly why she and DH broke up. When SS was not two months old, DH said he would come home from work, and BM would pass him the baby and head out to the bar, not coming home until 2 AM, if at all.

They fought terribly, and DH said she was just completely LOCO. They broke up when SS was 10 months old.

Okay, so then when she was pregnant with her little girl, she actually was kind and friendly the WHOLE pregnancy---I freaking went to her BABY SHOWER. (lord!) I went back through my emails and sure enough, about two-three months after her baby was born, I had a slew of nasty ones from her. It was in that time period that her drinking got really, really bad---and then the incident/assault/etc.

And now here we are again---she's about three months post partum with her third baby, and acting insane. But she was pretty even for the whole pregnancy.

The ironic thing is, DH even spoke with her about this a few months before the baby was born. He just said to her "You know, you've had PPD issues before, and I just wanted to make sure that you were considering that this time around and addressing it."

"but unless we could DIRECTLY prove that it affects SS, then we don't have much."

Check his school record. Look at his daily grades & see if there is a correlation to time he is with his mother. When my son was in school, I was able to get a printout of his attendance & grades. There was an obvious pattern that showed what was going on in his dad's house was directly affecting him at school. I would look at test scores on the days he's with mom, look at homework grades, ask the teacher if there is any change in his behavior, demeanor, etc. I would not be surprised to find something... also look at attendance, tardiness, etc.

Love,
I've said it before, please go get your restraining order against her re-instated. This should not even be up for negotiation.

If you didn't have kids there I'd tell you to purchase a firearm. this woman is unstable and God knows what she is going to pull. I feel you are in a very unsafe place and no one is protecting you or the children.

Is your marriage really worth risking your life? Your husband is doing NOTHING to protect you-in fact quite the opposite. She's a whack job-he placates her & YOU and the children get tormented, abused and placed in mortal danger. Honestly, I fear one day I'll come here and read about you becoming a victim (again!) of a violent crime-only worse next time.
You and your DD are in danger-Do something about it!

~Cat

"Is your marriage really worth risking your life?"

Nothing, particularly not a troubled marriage, is more important than our lives.

Please give some thought to getting away from this nightmare.

Cat is right:
your husband is enabling the violence.

remember my post on the thread about exes being overly friendly?

The guy was playing the 2 of us against each other because he got such an ego boost;
he enjoyed it.

Ima has a good idea there...
Does he have a planner that the teacher writes about his behavior in? SS's grade 4 teacher wrote in the students' planners and we pointed out to BM that SS was virtually guaranteed to have a rough day at school if he'd been at GM's house in the morning or overnight before school. It finally got her to acknowledge that he shouldn't be spending nights there during the week. And if it's strong enough evidence to convince BM, I bet it's strong enough to convince a court!!

LOL, Love, I thought of you the other night... My baby is due soon-ish and I have started "scenting" a few receiving blankets for the baby's first few days. They're all washed and ready to go, but I'm sleeping with each one for a night or two so it smells like a familiar place (AKA - me). I'll use the "scented" ones for a few days or a week, maybe two, because research shows that newborns are calmer and sleep better on their own when they are in a blanket that smells like their mother than when they are in a blanket that does not.
Why I thought of you: I remember you saying about how when your SS was about 5, BM showed up with a teddy bear (or something like that) that she had sprayed her perfume on because she thought he might like to smell her while he was at your house. I thought to myself "I feel a little silly sleeping with blankets for my newborn to have my smell... I can't imagine wanting to do this for a 5 year old!!!"

Ceph, it was just last year.

She used to spray his stuffed animals with her gag-me-vanilla perfume, right from when he was a baby, DH said./

But it was last year--WHILE I had the restraining order. I walked out onto our porch to get the mail, and immediately freaked. Her STRONG vanilla perfume was wafting all around. I knew she had been there! I looked around and then saw--sitting on top of the mailbox---a little Beanie Baby.

A "present" for SS. What was CRAZY was that in all the years I'd been with DH, not one time had she ever felt the need to drop off a present. And then suddenly, not three months after an RO has gone into effect, she feels the need to drop one off.

she claimed she waited in the car while her hubby came onto our porch and dropped the gift off.

I doubt it.

CRAZY. LOONY. SCARY.

I am going to reapply for the order tomorrow.

Why?

Because she drove by our house yesterday. The woman lives 30 minutes away and she drove by like a psycho stalker.

We've had SS since Wed and he won't go back to BM until tomorrow after school. (This was DH's ordinary 5 day stretch, but he got LAbor Day this year per the parenting plan, so it turned into a 6 day stretch.)

BM expects that she should be allowed to talk to SS three times a day. DH NEVER restricts SS's calls to HER, but here is the thing---SS never ASKS to call her. Sometimes, when SHE calls and DH tells him to answer the phone, he even groans.

BM is intrusive, plain and simple.

So SS had talked to his mom around noon yesterday, and then we headed to a pool party/bbq at my mom's.

As we were driving home around 8 PM, BM called DH's cell. DH handed it to SS and said "it's your mom calling to say goodnight."

So SS takes the call and DH and I can hear BM saying "why didn't you call me today? I haven't talked to you since lunchtime" blah blah. SS said he was sorry, and then he said "What? Are you there now?'

DH and I turned the music up in the front seat so as to give SS some privacy.

He got off the phone and then he told DH that his mom had driven by our house. She asked him if he had been riding his bike b/c it was outside.

UGHHHHH.
I mean, I wonder--did she ring the doorbell? Obviously, we were not home but what was she gonna do if we were? Come up and demand access to her son???

SS was upset and kept saying his mom did not believe that we had been at my mom's house.

So DH called BM privately when we got home and asked what the deal was. She said she was just going for a "Sunday drive."

WHATEVER. It is looney.

DH talked with SS more later about his feelings and SS said ever since his mom punched me, he gets nervous b/c he thinks his mom wants to fight.

I mean, at WHAT POINT would a judge agree that this stuff is AFFECTING HIM?

She is loooney!!!!

And then DH got a nasty text with her saying she is buying SS a cell phone b/c SHE wants to be able to have contact with him ANYTIME she wants.

UGH.

We woke up at 8 AM this morning and at 9:30 AM, the phone was already ringing---BM calling to talk to her baby!

It's crazy, borderline frightening and intrusive! And it is NOT GOOD for SS.

GEEZ. DH calls him to say goodnight when he's with his mom and THAT IS IT. He doesn't call more than that b/c he feels it is intruisve of SS's time with his mom.

The funny thing is--SS frequently calls DH to talk to him! But he never, ever wants to call his loony mother! Wonder why.

I just think this woman is unstable.

I am going to reapply. Not sure if I'll get it, but I need to at least try. At the very least, I am going to have Dh's attorney send her a cease and desist type letter. I know she didn't directly contact ME this time but driving by the house is creepy. I just keep thinking thank GOD we were not home b/c I think had a car been in the driveway, she would have pounded on the door and demanded to talk to SS.

You are being stalked, plain & simple.

I hope you are documenting all of this, it's absolutely insane & I cannot imagine with her history your R.O. wouldn't be renewed.

Seems the phone call issue must be resolved also-unless you want her calling 15 times a day. Isn't there anything about this in the orders or was it left vague? Why doesn't DH limit it to one call a day-period. And just hang up/turn the ringer off otherwise?

I couldn't take it Love. You have got to be near the end of your rope. Are you as peaceful now as you were when you & DD had your own little place during the seperation? I know I could never go back to way my marriage was before I removed myself from his situation with his kids. I know it's different as his son is young. But maybe you should revisit having your own place and some peace in your life.((Hugs))
~Cat

You know, this PPD (or PP psychosis) might really bear some investigating. I know it's a 'strategic advantage' to 'your side' when BM is crazy, but it's hurting DS, and I suspect that's much more important to you.

Is there any way you could get your genuine concern into the hands of someone with some power to actually do something about it? (Like maybe her lawyer first, with CPS to be notified if BM doesn't seek treatment?)

" Isn't there anything about this in the orders or was it left vague? Why doesn't DH limit it to one call a day-period."

Nope. DH and I are both flabbergasted by that because the rest of the order is as specific as can be, down to pick up times and everything else.

But as far as phone contact---all the parenting plan says is *reasonable phone contact.*

Who defines what is reasonable?

What's frustrating to ME is that DH seems to kinda side with BM on this one. He always says to me, "Well, I am his DAD and I like to feel that I can call my son whenever I want."

But see---the thing is---DH doesn't ABUSE that. He only calls once a day, but I guess he sympathizes with BM feeling like she should be able to talk to her son when she wants.

DH has told me he knows HE wouldn't like it if BM told him he could *only* call once per day.

To which I reply---well, you're not BM, and you don't abuse things, so it's somewhat different for you.

No, Cat, I am not happy at all. Frustrated and pretty hopeless feeling, actually. I worry immensely about my DD. People can scoff at this and say she is better off without a dad, but I don't know. To *lose* the only daddy she knows would DEVASTATE her. Plain and simple. It breaks my heart to think about it.

Also, I am in pretty intense psychoanalyis right now---part of me feels like the last few years of my life have almost driven me to the brink of insanity. And my psychiatrist keeps telling me NOW is not a good time to make important life decisions. He keeps telling me to sit with things for at least 6 months.

I mean, I adore my DH, it's all the BM stuff that I cannot take. And what I perceive as his lack of control.

Love-
I don't think BM is abusing the phone call thing. She has gone far beyond that. IMO she is stalking her son and this needs to be conveyed to your DH. It's not abnormal for a parent to have concern for their child, but I don't think it is normal to "HAVE TO" make contact with said kid every few hours. SS certainly receives no benefit from all of these calls. We all agree this isn't good for your SS, but imagine how her erratic behavior impacts her other children.

Love said: "And what I perceive as his lack of control."

I don't think it's a perception. I think this we are in indisputable fact territory on that one.

Frankly your DH should be a lot more fearful of what YOU will do if he doesnt put a stop to this immediately.

You have mentioned before feeling torn over separating your DD from your DH, but I'd like you to try and look at it from another point of view. Your DD growing up witnessing her mother being harassed, stalked and threatened while her daddy not only doesn't keep her mommy safe but caves every time the other woman gets scary.

Just my take Love. I am sorry if I upset you. I worry for you and hate to think your DD would end up thinking all this is normal chaos and thus the circle continues.

If everyone hadn't been so blunt with me I would have never had the guts to make the changes I did. It stung, I won't lie. My marriage hasn't ended but there have been major changes with definate deal breakers identified. Abuse/emotional abuse via DH or his son are it for me. And abuse by your DH's ex should be a dealbreaker for you and your DD.

Again I apologize if I have hurt your feelings, as that is not my intention. I know what it is to be in an emotionally fragile place when you are backed into a corner. I really feel for you. Stay strong as we are all rooting for you.

-Cat

But as far as phone contact---all the parenting plan says is *reasonable phone contact.*

I have guardianship of my grandson. DIL has "reasonable visitation" and that is what works best for my grandson. I had arranged for his other grandparents to take him every Saturday morning until Sunday afternoon and they are to supervise DIL ~ so essentially DIL should be able to see him the entire time, except she has to do so with her mom present. She says her mom only lets her see him for an hour each week. IMO, that is reasonable... sorta. If DIL were having her supervised visits done professionally by the agency most people use, she would have one hour visits, once a week. (and she'd have to pay for it) She gets no phone contact, of course he's only 18 months too.

Who decides what's reasonable? The court is the ultimate decider when people cannot agree. Honestly, if BM thinks once a day is not enough and your DH thinks several calls a day is too much... BOTH of them thinks the other is being UNREASONABLE. The court is going to most likely look at the child... does he request that much contact with mom? do the calls interfere in his activities? his time with his dad? how does it affect HIM? and the court would probably say one call a day is plenty.

My son's father & I ended up in court over this very issue. (among so many others) because I complained that when he was with his dad, they wouldn't let him call me at all & wouldn't answer their phone so I had NO contact with him when he was with his dad. The court ordered them to allow me a 15 minute call, three times a week when my son was over there. The days & times were even specified. IMO, and I was a mom that wanted lots of contact with my son too (not several calls a day), one call a day is plenty and would be considered reasonable by the court.

I agree with the other posters; this is stalking, of you, your DH and your SS and this is very far from reasonable or normal. If you haven't already done so, and are somewhat close with your neighbors, it might be best to let them know your concerns as well. If she's parked down the street staring at your house through binoculars or something they will know to let you know.

I'm really starting to agree with Cat. I'm not saying you should leave your DH permanently, and I know that you'd feel like you were abandoning him and your SS, but it might be best for you and your DD to get away to a safer place for a while. This situation appears to be very rapidly deteriorating.

"Is there any way you could get your genuine concern into the hands of someone with some power to actually do something about it? (Like maybe her lawyer first, with CPS to be notified if BM doesn't seek treatment?)"

I am not sure how that would be, Sweeby, although it is a darn good idea.

The problem is---I doubt *her* lawyer would do anything, last DH heard they had not paid the lawyer from the last round of court stuff.

CPS is a possibility, but the problem is--she will KNOW it was DH who called, and then holy h*ll will break loose, she'll probably falsely report me again, blah blah.

I just don't see CPS uncovering anything kwim? So we say she is mentally unstable. PROVE IT is what she would say.

I don't know. It may be worth a try, but I just don't see much good coming from it.

DH could talk to her mom, but her mom is as loco as anyone, and is in total denial about her daughter. STILL has this weird hope that DH and BM will *someday* reconcile. Always tells DH how *great* they were together and all that jazz. If DH were to express concern about PPD, etc. her mom would just rationalize and downplay.

It's REALLY frustrating. Because it feels like there is no help, no way out, and hopeless.

It's like we just sit and wait for something terrible to happen.

"So we say she is mentally unstable. PROVE IT is what she would say." You've got a bunch of texts, emails and voice mails proving that, for whatever reason, she is not behaving in a socially acceptable manner. Whether that's intentional or uncontrollable on her part is not really important; the fact remains that she's doing it.

Prove it....

Well, she left a message calling you names, threatening you and stating she got your phone number from a source that never should have given it to her. That may not be enough in a court of law, but it's enough in the court of StepFamily Forum.

If you truly feel that this is your life, that"we just sit and wait for something terrible to happen", you need to think again. Love, I'm with Cat, and I'm just going to lay it all out there. Please know this is not with any malice.

IF your DH:

1. really loved your DD like his own
2. was putting his family first
3. were acting as if he truly were your partner

He would NEVER allow anyone to make your DD or her mother feel unsafe. I don't care if BM were DH's own mother. This would not be tolerated.

He is not protecting you. He is not protecting your DD and he is not protecting SS. He is climbing in his big messy bed and pulling the sheet over his head and singing a little song with his fingers in his ears.

WAKE THE *#%&@ UP DH!

NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO CALL MY CHILDREN/STEPCHILDREN NAMES
NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO MISTREAT MY SPOUSE/FAMILY MEMBERS
NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO MAKE MY FAMILY FEEL UNSAFE

PERIOD.

It's not healthy, it's not safe, it's not ok and it's gone on way too long.

The email that she sent, saying nasty things about your then 5 or 6 year old daughter ALONE would be PROOF of her instability!

WHO ATTACKS A 6 YEAR OLD CHILD????

The fact that she would say something so horrible about an innocent child might be alarming to a court. It's one thing to say nasty stuff about you, but it shows who she is when she says stuff about a child. Would a court care? I would not want to guess about what the court would do/say. I would FIND OUT! If a Judge has all the facts and doesn't see a problem, then you've done all you can to protect your family. But to live your life sitting on top of a volcano, never knowing if or when it will erupt & not having a plan to deal with it if it does... that's NO life I'd want. BM is controlling your lives, just by the mere fact that you don't know day to day if you are safe. You and/or your DH are walking on eggshells & are not in charge of your own life. Meanwhile, she does what she wants when she wants... because she doesn't have to worry about what you guys are gonna pull next.

"The fact that she would say something so horrible about an innocent child might be alarming to a court. It's one thing to say nasty stuff about you, but it shows who she is when she says stuff about a child. Would a court care? I would not want to guess about what the court would do/say. I would FIND OUT! If a Judge has all the facts and doesn't see a problem, then you've done all you can to protect your family."

This is a REALLY good point Ima.

I guess I've been going off of our experience the FIRST go around in court, which was nearly three years ago. THAT time we brought in all these files of emails/voicemails and it never even made it to the judge. The GAL raised his eyebrows over it and told me to block her email. When I said I did that, and she would simply make up a new email address, he told ME to change MY email.

He (this was the first GAL) did not seem that troubled by it. He gave BM school district and was pretty useless, actually. Cemented 50-50 custody and told BM that she was to be "on call" every day if DH couldn't leave work to get SS.

Not exactly the makings for a harmonious relationship.

THEN it was towards the end of that year that BM's drinking MAJORLY escalated, the drunk incident, etc. DH took her back to court and we had a fresh, new GAL. HE awarded DH residential, gave BM the no-drinking clause, etc.

HE listened to some voicemails from BM and read a few emails and seemed more concerned than the previous GAL.

I think they are USED to things being *nasty* in court but the fact that BM is still--friggin' two years later--acting like this and there's NOTHING GOING on indicates a problem.

I will talk to DH about it. He often reads this forum, particularly when I think there is something worth hearing for him. I think he has grown SO accustomed to BM's volatile crazy behavior that he forgets just how abnormal it really is.

And Silver---you are right--he may THINK he is protecting SS, but by allowing BM's behavior to continue, he's not.

That email BM sent making fun of DD wasn't the last, either. Sometime during the last court battle she emailed DH a picture of a bunch of children with Down Syndrome and SAID "Is Love's DD in that picture?"

It is unreal.
SHe used to email me pictures of obese people and ask me how my pic had gotten in this magazine or on that website, etc.

For the record--I am 5'4" and weigh about 120 lbs. LOL.

Thanks for ALL your thoughts, ladies. It helps so mcuh to hear objective, outside opinions. I really feel like DH, and even BM's own family have developed an immunity to her. "Oh, that's just how she is," etc. But that's NOT ACCEPTABLE.

I really think it may be time to go back to court and reviist custody. At the very least, DH could ask for custody during the school week, to at least give SS some stability there.

"That email BM sent making fun of DD wasn't the last, either. Sometime during the last court battle she emailed DH a picture of a bunch of children with Down Syndrome and SAID "Is Love's DD in that picture?""

Mr. Love, if you're reading this, please understand that this is abusive behavior. It's wrong to make fun of little kids. It's wrong to mock children with Down Syndrome. And it's wrong to insinuate there is anything wrong with your stepdaughter.

Protect your wife. Protect your children. Let the mother of your son know that in this family, any abuse toward any family member will not be tolerated. Set the standard so that your children know what is normal, what is good, and that they are safe. Help your wife protect your children.

I know there are at least two sides to every story and Love's is the only side we've heard. And I understand wanting to make peace with your son's mother and keep things civil. But not at the cost of your wife and children. This environment is creating a rift between you and your wife. Only you have the power to stop this from happening.

The most heartbreaking part of this entire situation is that SS is seeing his Dad not react to this AWFUL behavior and just letting it continue. SS is learning that letting people he loves get walked all over is okay. DD is watching Dad's behavior and is learning that Dads are supposed to do that and not go to bat for their wives or their children.

He may say he's "trying to keep the peace" for all involved...no, he isn't. He's keeping the peace for himself. You can't expect irrational people to suddenly become rational. That's something it took my a LONG time to learn in my own situation because I ALWAYS wanted to give BM the benefit of the doubt...and all it did was hurt me. It's clear that Love's BM is seriously unstable and there is no rationality in people like that.

I hope your husband wakes up Love and doesn't continue to put you in this situation. It isn't good for you or your kids...they don't need to have this sort of behavior modeled for them

ooops! I replied to you on another thread, Silver!
I had the two mixed up.

Thank you for your reponse--directed at DH. (I responded in the BM/car thread.)

"The most heartbreaking part of this entire situation is that SS is seeing his Dad not react to this AWFUL behavior and just letting it continue. SS is learning that letting people he loves get walked all over is okay. DD is watching Dad's behavior and is learning that Dads are supposed to do that and not go to bat for their wives or their children."

Thanks smashley. I need to read these things. You are completely right. :(

In another thread, you asked when enough is enough... I responded that only you can answer that question (or at least I think I did!). I was WAY WRONG. Run, don't walk and don't let him adopt your DD!

1. He loves DD - but not enough to protect her from his crazy ex.

2. He loves you - again, not enough to protect you from his crazy ex.

3. You love him so you stay with him through thick and thin - but he kicks you to the curb time and time again in order to placate and pacify his ex all in the name of SS's sake which is a bunch of bull.

Seriously. The more I read about your loving and devoted husband, the more I want to vomit. I am also wondering why you would subject your DD to such a destructive environment? It's one thing to continue to be a punching bag, figuratively and literally, for yourself but it's quite another to choose said life for your child all for the sake of "but I LOOOVVVE him." My question to you is: who is more important to you, your adult husband who is complicit in the wrongs done to you and subsequently your DD; or your impressionable minor child who sees and hears far more than you can possibly know?

Ouch Lonepiper. Unfortunately I agree.

Thanks Love, I'll have to take a gander at that other thread. I'm really sorry you're going through this. Really, really sorry. I can't imagine how hard it must be.

And I just want to add any psychiatrist and or therapist that advises to sit tight and not make any major decisions while you are being stalked,abused and in danger of becoming a statistic is just a useless windbag.

I would find a therapist that has experience in dealing with sociopaths cause that's what you've got.

Love, I worry for you. I see your self esteem is right where mine was, in the gutter. You state it is like you are just waiting for something bad to happen. Well, yes exactly.

Take your power back. You do not have to live like this. You & your DD deserve better. I also have nothing good to say of your DH who fails you time & time again (and I know how that feels) so I'll leave it there.

-Cat

"And I just want to add any psychiatrist and or therapist that advises to sit tight and not make any major decisions while you are being stalked,abused and in danger of becoming a statistic is just a useless windbag."

I agree 100%. I was shocked when I saw that Love was advised to not make any major decisions - like what? Whether or not she wants to be safe?!

Without going into the details of my therapy, I will say I have complete trust in my psychiatrist. He was the director of psychiatry at a major hospital in our city for twenty years, and has been practicing for over 40.

I believe he has my best interest at heart.

I think he is saying--if I tried to make a decision, like to leave now---it would not work. I would go back. It's the same reason I stayed--for YEARS--when 95% of other women would have left.

And for now, he thinks nothing in me has changed enough to make leaving successful. It would cause more disruption to DD for me to leave at the moment that it would to stay.

It's difficult to explain, but I can truly say I trust my doctor. As much as I feel like I am compelled to ACT, I understand his school of thought.

I know I asked for advice--regarding the situation---needing to vent. But I would respectfully ask that you not make further comments about my psychiatrist or therapy, which is complicated beyond words.

I've recently---what prompted me into therapy--had some awful revelations of things that happened to me as a young child and slowly, things are piecing together about abuse I suffered, the affect my mother's drinking and narcissism had on me, etc. It clarifies why I've settled for such BS in my relationship/marriage.

My emotional state is in turmoil and I am trying to get a grip on things; there is no doubt that the unending drama with BM/DH has wreaked havoc on my sense of self, my confidence, etc. but I am just not in any position to make a move now.

My psychiatrist is my lifeline right now and for the first time in a long time, I feel like hope is on the horizon, that I CAN make a better life for myself. I am trying to follow his direction because he knows what he's talking about.

Trust me, I know better than anyone that a BAD psych. can do extensive damage, but this man is not that. I trust him wholeheartedly.

I love all of you---and cherish your views and opinons and I hope this does not come across as ungrateful. But this is a personal battle for me, and I am trusting my doctor to get me where I need to be.

I wanted to add--I certainly did not mean that I don't want to hear your opinions or thoughts. I DO. Just not about my therapy or what my therapist is saying because it's incredibly personal and introspective, and he has his (valid) reasons.

It's just that I'm trying--for the first time in my life---to heal my emotional wounds and live a happier, hopeful life, so I can be a better mother and person. And part of that, for me, is taking my doctor's direction.

Getting into therapy was a huge, scary thing for me but now I am so grateful I did.

"nothing in me has changed enough to make leaving successful"

Wow. That's a pretty profound statement. I can understand that. We all have patterns, ruts, established behaviors. Unless we change those, any other changes we make will be superficial, short term.

Dumping DH may seem like the solution, but he's not really the problem. The problem is that you are attracting and somehow needing this kind of relationship. Until you fix your personal cycle you will keep attracting the same kinds of problems/relationships.

Like I said in the the other thread, this is "normal" for DH, and for some reason, this is the "normal" you have attracted for yourself as well. Until you define what your personal "normal" is so that even if you did break up you wouldn't go right back to the same issues, leaving would only be pan to fire.

OK. So instead of bashing DH, (even though he's acting dimwitted and has his loyalties completely screwed up ;) we need to figure out a way to help identify your problems with the situation (what's the root) and then express that to DH in a way that will be clear (he needs to know exactly what you want). And once you have clarity; if he is not able to grasp it or not willing; you will be able to deal with staying or going because you will be healthy. And, not coming from the place of "victim", which is important if this is one of your established patterns.

I can identify with this. I have established patterns too. When I have problems with DH I can usually track it right back to what I don't like about myself, but instead I blame him for my lack of internal resources to fix whatever is bugging me.

Maybe I'm off base. But that resonated with me.

Silver, you are so right.

Love, don't leave your marriage. One thing I learned in my divorce was that if I cange me, and my reactions, things around me start to change. You just keep on doing your soul-searching! And come to Texas if you need a break :)

BTW, I will answer your message tonight because I can't see it at work.

Hang in there, girlie!

"Without going into the details of my therapy, I will say I have complete trust in my psychiatrist. He was the director of psychiatry at a major hospital in our city for twenty years, and has been practicing for over 40. "

He sounds very well qualified, and it's reassuring to hear that you are in such capable hands.

I was just concerned and feared that you might have gotten some well-meaning yet ineffectual counselor who didn't really grasp what was going on - "Oh, it's just some nasty emails - ignore them. She drives by your house - she's not hurting anything".

Obviously that is not the case, my apologies for thinking otherwise because it wasn't my intention for you to have to justify yourself (or your therapist).

See, you guys are awesome.

Silver, thank you so much for your response. It is definitely a problem within myself---hence part of the reason I was led to therapy. Because I know that the choices and decisions I've made, and what I've *accepted* in my life has not been *normal.*

Most women would not have put up with the crap that's ensued with BM. Even if DH didn't bear ANY responsibility in it, a lot of women still wouldn't have stayed, simply because it's too much.

But I did and do, and that problem lies within me.

Basically, what my doctor has said is that leaving my marriage might take away some problems for me, but it would just add new ones in other areas.

"When I have problems with DH I can usually track it right back to what I don't like about myself, but instead I blame him for my lack of internal resources to fix whatever is bugging me."

This is dead on, girl! You said it so perfectly.

Ashley, you are also so super right about the changes in US changing the way we see things. I'm not saying going through therapy would make me more tolerant of BM BUT it might change ME, and that change within ME might make either---view things as unacceptable, or it might force ME to stand up to DH more.

Right now I feel like I get fired up---then back down.

Mattie, no worries. I know exactly what you mean. Before I started seeing this man, I was concerned, too. My mom went through rehab after rehab, and saw counselor after counselor, and it wreaked a lot of havoc on her. I personally think a BAD therapist is worse than none at all!

I so appreciate the fact that I can be candid on here.

Listen Love,
I'm not saying can your therapist and dump your hubs, so please don't take that the wrong way.

I do feel you would be safer if you got your own place again, even if til this whole mess with BM is dealt with one way or another. You seemed much more at peace and less stressed during your seperation, and DH seemed more interested in doing what needs to be done to make you safe in your marriage and home.

And heck if MY marriage could be salvedged I'm willing to bet most anyones can. However it came with a price for DH, he must keep his stuff with his adult sons seperate from me and their drama must not affect my life anymore-period.

I'm not saying I'd never help in a pinch-but everyday can not be a pinch. I have shown my devotion to him & his family time and again. As have you.

Perhaps I feel so strongly about your situation because even though your children are small our DH's seem a lot alike in doing anything to avoid confrontation.

But everyone gets to that "no more" place at their own pace, and their own way. Do what you feel safest doing in your own time frame.

My concern is purely for your SAFETY and Happiness above all. Cause I think you are a really kind & caring person and deserve to be treated as such.

I understand you feel confident in your therapist, that's cool,but I am concerned that he isn't more concerned with your immediate danger. That's all, don't feel pressured. Just know I care and please put you first. If you don't know one will.

(hugs)

~Cat

"I am concerned that he isn't more concerned with your immediate danger."

ditto.

This isn't a run-of-the-mill, that's-life-when-you-marry-a-divorced-person situation.

The relationship between your husband & his ex is the primary relationship, & you're the scapegoat/victim/blood sacrifice that they need to bind them together.

If you never had come into the picture, do you think these two would be as involved as they are?

Your therapist may be the brightest thing going as far as theory, but I saw the pictures;
those were real life bruises, that was real life blood.

Although I may cringe saying this because it may be hurtful, I nonetheless still feel the need to say it: While you are working on the issues from your childhood, think about your DD as an adult having to work on the issues of HER childhood. Your past is just that - your past. Nothing you can do to change it. However, your DD's "past" is currently being created.

"While you are working on the issues from your childhood, think about your DD as an adult having to work on the issues of HER childhood. Your past is just that - your past. Nothing you can do to change it. However, your DD's "past" is currently being created."

I have dragged myself over the coals for choices I've made and the situation I--and now DD--am currently in.

But I am trusting my doctor.

I'm not just *working on issues from the past,* I am going through intense psychotherapy. I am at risk for hospitalization or worse.

My doctor feels---the DAMAGE that would be done to DD if I were to leave and LOSE IT---which is what would happen right now--is FAR worse than the damage done by staying.

We have talked AT LENGTH about it, and I've said these SAME things to him: shouldn't my DD come first? ETC.

He tells me YES. My therapy needs to be second prioroty, second ONLY to DD's welfare, which is innately tied in with therapy.

I'm NOT a bad mother. I would leave TODAY if I felt it would be better for her. But it's not--and my doctor is NOT saying that I should not leave *at some point.* He is just telling me to sit with things for six months and get some DISTANCE from the commencement of therapy, and all the events that led me to begin it.

I will just be blunt: he told me if I left my marriage right now, I would have a mental breakdown and wind up in the psych ward. The issues I'm working through are not just "oh, my mom was mean to me and my dad was cold.'

I'm dealing with revelations of past molestation by my neighbor, an eating disorder I battled in highschool has popped up,I have terrible nightmares, symptoms of PTSD and I am a WRECK.

My emotional state is hanging in the balance. My dr. honestly thinks this therapy is a matter of life or death for me, and he is imploring me to follow his advice, SO THAT DD can be okay.

HE brings her well-being up all the time! ALL the time.

I know it sounds simple---leave the situation and the drama goes away, but that's not the case as of yet.

I think staying, for my doctor, is the lesser of two evils right now. In regards to DD. It would rock her world for me to leave the father she knows; but it would rock it way worse if I were to leave and fall apart. THEN DD would be in real trouble.

ETA--I know everything people have said has been said out of concern. And lonepiper, I would probably say the same thing if I were in your shoes looking in. :)

Thanks for caring. I really do appreciate it. I don't *know* any of you but I feel like can all connect on deeper levels, and the support we're able to give one another here is great.

Love, I think most of us have been in that position, as step-parents or parents, where there is no perfect solution, and it's a choice of the lesser of two evils (although not usually to the extent that you are going through it). Obviously your doctor is very experienced and well-qualified; if he thinks that this is what is best for you and for DD right now then he's very probably correct.

Hang in there, sweetie. It sounds like you are doing what you need to be doing to get to a safe and secure future for you and DD. Hugs.

Thanks Mattie. I am trying to trust that I'm on the right path, and things will be brighter ahead, no matter what.

There is no doubt in my doctor's mind that the stress of the last few years has brought a lot of *my issues* to the forefront. BUT a lot of MY issues are also the reason I've accepted such a crap situation. KWIM?

I can recognize now the damage the unending stress resulting from the BM situation has brought. But I have to accept some responsibility in it, too. People treat you how you let them treat you. I can't control BM's behavior but I CAN expect---even demand---that my DH treat me with respect. And while he does in other areas, he does NOT in the situation pertaining to BM.

DH loves me, cares for me, no doubt. But he's got his own issues to work on, and I think THAt is why my psych. encouraged DH to get into individual therapy for himself.

My doctor told me that, going through therapy, I will be fundamentally CHANGED for the better, and it's productive if BOTH partners can change simultaneously.

At the very least, as I get stronger and put emotional pain in the past, I will be able to make capable, GOOD choices.

Or at least that is the fervent hope.

The silver lining--I started a blog detailing my therapy journey and a good friend of mine who reads it forwarded some of the material to a publisher friend of HERS. As a result--I scored a paid writing gig! WOOHOO. It's something aimed at teenage girls, and I will be published, have my name on a book, etc. No royalties, but this is a great, exciting step for me.

I love to write, and I know that this one time job opens doors to other opportunities in the future. Writing has always been my passion and it's awesome that therapy has forced me to *hone my craft.*

I do believe in God and that things work out as He intends. If I look back over my life, I can see a bigger, greater plan at work. Sometimes it's just so hard to see in the middle of it!

"My concern is purely for your SAFETY and Happiness above all. Cause I think you are a really kind & caring person and deserve to be treated as such."

Thanks Cat, that was so kind of you to say. I meant to thank you earlier, you are so sweet. :) I am so glad you are in a happier place now! I know you went through so much crap! (((HUGS)))

"As a result--I scored a paid writing gig! WOOHOO. It's something aimed at teenage girls, and I will be published, have my name on a book, etc."

Congratulations! That is SO cool! I can't even imagine how exciting it will be to be able to see your name on a book! I love reading but writing was not something I was ever that good at, so I'm always really impressed by authors.

"I do believe in God and that things work out as He intends. If I look back over my life, I can see a bigger, greater plan at work. Sometimes it's just so hard to see in the middle of it!"

I know exactly what you mean. I don't have any bio-children and probably will not ever, because of my age. As hard as the whole situation is with BM, and despite how it tears me apart watching SS suffer, I have to remind myself that if she were a better or more involved parent, I would have a much more peripheral role in SS' life, and would not get to share in so many of his triumphs, joys and disappointments.

How this is best for SS I do not know. I do see that he is much more empathetic and caring than many kids his age. Some of the finest adults that I have known have had some very crappy things in their childhood so hopefully with love and support SS too will grow into a fine young man someday.

Love, that's great about the writing gig. Congratulations!! I know some of my best work comes from being under duress.

Right now it sounds like your home life is reasonably stable (no one is drinking, beating, abusing, screaming, starving, neglecting...etc) in your direct family unit. There's a lot to be said for that.

BM is a complete wild card. But there's no telling that if you left DH that she would leave you alone either, right? The woman is unhinged, there's safety in numbers.

Your story is just a perfect example to me of how we see things on this board. Someone gives a story, and it's like they wrote it on the door. All we can see is the writing on the wood. We give advice based on that writing. Then we notice the crack on the bottom of the door. We give new advice based on that 2" space. Then the keyhole opens up. WOW. The perspective sure is different 3' off the floor!!! Even though all we can see through is a small hole, it's at a different height and round instead of rectangular. Then the door is opened, with the security chain still latched. Hmmmm... Perspective changes again. We can only see the left side of what's on the other side of the door, it's a narrow strip, but it goes from the top to the bottom. When the door is finally opened all the way it's apparent that the advice has to change with the broadened perspective.

I see your story playing out like this:

1. The Door: BM is villain. She beat Love.
2. The Crack: DH is loser. He is not protecting Love.
3. The Keyhole: Love is weak/not looking out for DD. She is foolishly not leaving a bad situation.
4. The Chain: Love is getting bad advice. She is being influenced by bad therapist.
5. The Door Opens: Where we are now... Love has much bigger issues, Love is working on those issues. The spiderweb includes all of the issues above, but in order to really resolve these issues a lot more needs to happen than JUST DH stands up for Love, or JUST BM quits being crazy. Those would help. But the change needs to be internal rather than external.

Thanks for being honest Love.

Mattie, big (((HUGS)))

I know what you mean about wondering why SS has to go through such turmoil. :( It seems unfair. It IS unfair. But you're also right in saying some of the finest people have been through some very tough stuff. I do believe it can make someone into a much more sensitive, empathetic and strong individual. I bet this will be the case--with your and DH's guidance and love--for your SS.

Silver, thanks for writing that. You have such a way of putting things, a gift for words!

I tried to find you btw on facebook via that yahoo address from the yahoo SM group?

It's a pseudonym ;) I sent you a message via that board. let me know if you get it.

Love, have you tried telling your DH that more than anything, you are concerned not only about how BM's behavior will affect you, but also your children? I know your DH loves you and adores both his child and yours, who he sees as his child - and I know he wouldn't want to put them in a bad situation. I come from a family of divorce, a divorce that wasn't amicable and my mother was not emotionally stable at the time. She would act crazy and rag on my father and my stepmother (who I learned, through meeting her and spending time with her, that she wasn't this witch she was made out to be...but she wasn't exactly my cup of tea either). However, my mom's first priority always has been and always will be me and my sister. We're both adults now and we are still her number one priority. When we sat her down and calmly explained that we understood she was hurt but her trash-talking our father wasn't doing anything positive for us, it really woke her up. Sure, she still gripes now and then (because in all honesty, my dad is very absent and my mom picks up the bulk of the work with no help at all) but she never again ragged on him the way she used to.

The reason I say all this, is maybe it would be easier for your DH to assess the situation from the perspective of "is this the kind of behavior you want modeled for our children?" as opposed to "this is how I feel..."

I hope your situation improves Love. I'll keep you in my prayers. No one deserves to go through this, especially not a SM as dedicated as you are.