I am wondering - are these 2 pane, vacuum sealed windows? are the seals broken? Who is the window manufactuter?

I have a friend that replaced all of the windows in an 8 year old house. Shocking that they would not last longer!

Here's a reply that was done by my Web Pal, Oberon, on sound issues. He's by far one of the most knowledgeable people I've ever known when it comes to glass. He frequents this site occasionally so I know he may see it later:

Windows are rated as to their ability to deaden or attenuate sound based on something called an STC or Sound Transmission Class (walls and other building components use the same system, but here we are considering windows).

STC is an average of an objects ability to attenuate sound across the entire sound frequency spectrum. STC does not provide specific frequency-deadening information which is really what is needed if you want to block a specific type of unwanted noise; for example traffic noise.

As humans we are born with the ability to hear from approximately 20 to 20,000 hertz. Hertz, or Hz, is how sound frequency is measured - like electricity is measured in volts, for example.
By the time we are teenagers we have generally lost the ability to hear above about 13,000hz which as I remember is something mother always warned us about - going deaf - or was it stop or you'll go blind? I always get those confused.

Anyway, traffic noise is generally a low frequency sound, and unfortunately, low frequencies are much harder to attenuate (opposite of amplify) or block than are higher frequencies...consider how often you hear the base sounds from the neighborhood kid's car stereo and not the higher pitch tunes when he is coming down the street.

When considering windows, there are generally three options available for maximum possible sound attenuation.

First is laminated glass.
Second is a wider airspace between the lites.
Third is different thickness lites within the IGU or Insulating Glass Unit.
Fourth would be a combination of all three.

Airport windows, for example, will generally have laminated glass on both sides of the IGU in an aluminum frame and with a maximum airspace between the lites. In an airport the primary concern is sound attenuation and energy efficiency is secondary. I mention this because the width of the airspace and the choice of window framing material affects both sound and energy efficiency.

Some folks will suggest triple pane glass for its sound deadening ability. And while triple pane is a slight improvement over standard double pane at lower frequencies due to the additional density of the extra lite, overall there is no difference in STC rating between triple and double pane provided that the overall airspace between the panes is constant between the two constructions. In other words, consider a triple pane with two 1/4" airspaces and a dual pane with a single 1/2" airspace...both using 1/8" glass...the STC will be identical if the IGU's are the same dimensions.

Using one thicker (3/16") and one thinner (1/16") lite in an IG construction will also help deaden sound because each lite is "transparent" to a different frequency and each lite will then attenuate the frequency that the other lite "passed".

And, as always the quality of the construction and especially the installation cannot be overstated!

That was Oberons quick little educational post on sound transmission. I'll be jumping in on the installation part of this post and give you some direction for the future.

Over the past ten years glass has made great leaps and bounds in providing a better product. Your windows happen to be right on that borderline. Your comments on the function of these windows leads me to believe they are on the wrong side of the border. You stated your builder has a good reputation and still builds in the area. One thing builders have always done is spend more money on special items and skimp on windows. This is where they can really do some cost cutting, and they do.

More than likely there are one or two issues with your windows. First is there is thin glass units in your windows that don't offer any sound protection. The second is the insulation around each window frame never made it in or it fell out of place. You'd have to pull off inside trim to get a peek. I would recommend getting new replacement windows. Hopefully you have vinyl siding to make the job much easier for the installation. You may also want to check with your existing window manufacturer to see if you can just upgrade your glass in each unit. Hope this helps. Good Luck!!!

Thanks all.

Most of the windows are either on the front or rear. Siding on the back (not vinyl; composite of some kind), brick in the front. More windows in the rear.

I shudder to think of what re-windowing the entire home will cost. Two levels plus some windows in the basement. I am having a handyman stop by and have him take a look, or show me how to check for seals.

The windows are double-paned; I don't know much about windows but the seals do not appear to be broken (wouldn't there be fogging if they were?)

Hi Herus,
We had similar experience as yours with our old double pane Aluminum, I would suggest check the insulation around the windows first to see if that is the problem. The following is a partial checklist we did for our windows and what we found:

1. What is the air space between the pane? A small 1/4 inch? 1/2 inch?

2. Do the windows close tight? Latches may be down, handles may be folded but are the windows still not tight enough?

3. Does window design itself have a lot of seals everywhere there is a possible opening, however tiny or small?

4. Are there insulation all around the window openings or are they not stuffed?

In our case, we found the following:

1. Air space was only 1/4-inch and glass thickness was 1/8-inch. We could easily converse through a closed window.

2. We ran a thin 1/16-inch thick wire between the dbl-hung upper and lower sash (correct use of term?), closed them and latched them. We then test by pulling the wire through the seams into the house. It came right in with minimum effort. That meant wind and air and SOUND could get in as well.

3. This is harder to explain but easier to see. Our old dbl-hung windows and sliders had tracks for sash to go up and down. The track was baically a channel that guided the active sash movement. There was no extra sealing material on either side of the track, there was only Aluminum and a tiny bit of black material to aid movement. On very windy day, wife held an incense and work all around the window close to known seams. The smoke trail movement showed air was forced into the house.

4. There were no insulation stuffed into the opening around the windows when they were installed. This was the worst offender in terms of heat, cold and sound transmission. I had to cut out a 4-inch by 4-inch square to look inside.

End result: Noise entered our house. Rain, whipped by strong gusts (40+) could actually force its way through the small but unsealed seams of the window unit. It was strange to see bubbles bubbling around portions of the interior of the window.

For cases 1, 2, 3 above, it was a design weakness and we had to change the windows. For case 4 above, it was just a matter of adding insulation if the windows were well made. In our case, we had to replace everything.

With these new windows, the 1/16-inch wire test says it all. When we close and latch these new windows, we cannot budge the 1/16-inch wire stuck between the sashes, that is how tight the seals are to keep out air, water and sound. We also cannot easily hear each other through a closed window, just low mumbles.

Good luck.

MArvin has an option on their windows for 1/4' laminated glass to the exterior of their Low E 2 w/argon gas coates sashes. It has cut sound for my customers on my job sites.

Hey Guy! Haven't seen you around for a little while.
Thanks for the kind words!

Hi herus, I would follow up on what both Guy and what calbay said. Basically, your windows are allowing air to pass and that air is carrying sound. If you stop the air infiltration then you should stop the sound infiltration - assuming the windows are at fault.

Seal failure does not affect sound performance. Seal failure is primarily a cosmetic issue and if you don't have interior condensation then your windows are fine in that area.

Not trying to suggest that you lie to potential buyers, but why worry about sound getting thru your windows as a flaw in the home? You have lived there for 10 years (if I follow your post correctly) and have never had a worry about it until you have looked at newer homes. So I don't see the problem? As you said - you did not even become aware of this "problem" until recently.

I guess that I see it as a non-issue. You have a quality home. You have lived in this home for 10 years. Why make yourself sick worrying about something that a potential buyer won't even consider - unless YOU make a big deal out of it. Okay, newer homes are quieter - As Guy said window technology has improved by leaps and bounds the past 10 years.

Again, I am not suggesting that you lie or even omit important information from a potential buyer...that would be unethical and even illegal. If you had water leasking - then that is a big deal. If you had a bad septic or sewer, then that is a big deal - maybe your grass isn't as green as the grass in the new house around the corner? So what, that's not a big deal. You hear more outside noises in your home than in some newer homes? Okay then that is the nature of your home and not a flaw unless it is something that is bothering you - NOT because it is more than other houses you have seen but because it is at a level that you can't live with.

However, if you want to fix it because you now realize that it would be more comfortbale for YOU, then I would suggest that you check each window just as suggested and talk to the handyman about tightening or adding insulation as was suggested previously.

Some homes are noisier, some are quieter.