Doodle, I am not saying what is right or wrong on this question, I just resent when some people lay down rules for moms and then dont apply them to SMs. I didnt post the rules originally.

Oh I realized you didn't write those. I don't agree with rules not applying for everyone either. I think the expectations should ring true for both households.

If mom had been careful in returning the girls stuff in the same condition it left the house in I would of had absolutely no problem sending the stuff over there.

She always sent toys and clothes to our house when she still had custody but the difference was I returned it laundered and sometimes in BETTER condition than it arrived. I would stain stick or spot bleech stains, replace dead toy batteries, sew up a rip in a dolly etc. She actually, get the gaul, started sending garbage bags of clothes for me to wash in our machine because she couldn't afford to use the laundry mat or buy stain remover and detergent. Not only was I washing their weekend outfits but ALL of their clothes for the entire week every weekend.

Not just the girls clothes either but some of her's and Nathans as well. Obviously this was before I learned to tell her no and was trying to be OVERLY agreeable. I want to puke thinking about it. How lame was I to actually clean my then boyfriends ex wives new boyfriends underwear....hahahaha.

IMO, those are great guidelines, but not "rules" as the title suggests. I think that each home has to decide what works best for it. And I also think that each bio-relationship must decide for themselves what works best for them. What worked for DS, myself, X & X's GF did not work for FDH, FSD, BM and SF. And, IMO, their situation was a lot more chaotic than mine. But that's the way they chose to handle it.

Lots of things are "guidelines" as opposed to "rules". But rules can be broken and changed as well.

It looks as though Ima posted that almost a year ago. It could be that those "rules" just don't work for their home anymore.

kkny says: "And btw, I have my own issues re clothing (DD, on the rare times she visits with Dad, comes home with filthy clothes)."

I'm curious what "issues" you would have with a 16 year old coming home with "filthy clothes". What is she doing to make her clothes filthy? Who are you having the "issues" with? Her or your XH? Surely she's old enough to wash her own clothes at either her father's or your home so I don't know how it would be your issue.

More than anything though I don't know how a 16 year old can have "filthy" clothes. Seems odd to me.

Oh gee, for example, she has her period and he doesnt do wash. or let her use his washing machine. enough said??? For days???

kkny, another thing is you should have posted the entire thread for those "rules by ima" rather than just one part of it. A snippit of a conversation loses it's meaning. Ayi yi yi. :(

I see but it still doesn't make it your issue. If she learns that clothes will be ruined if not taken care of right away there are consequences. She could hand wash while at dad's if his washer is not available. Tide to Go! :)

Shamrock, I posted her entire post, I didnt post.

GIVE ME A BREAK. He has a washing machine and she cant use it. Fortunately she so rarely stays overnight it is not an issue.

All I see here is onesidedness -- which might explain some friction in some stepfamilies.

Shamrok, I meant to say I posted her entire post -- which was not a snippet -- and didnt edit it.

I said you didn't post the entire THREAD! It loses all of it's meaning when only one part is posted.

How sad that you say "Fortunately she so rarely stays overnight.." she must miss her father. Very sad to read you think that is a "fortunate" thing.

"I would like to hear form IMA, especially as she posted the above, ITEM 17. And btw, I have my own issues re clothing (DD, on the rare times she visits with Dad, comes home with filthy clothes)."

Here I am. You are hearing from me that YES, I posted that and YES, I believe what it says. However, when one parent is not cooperative, the cooperative parent can be easily taken advantage of by the uncooperative one.

My SD was being allowed to wear HER clothes back and forth. However, she would wear nice new school clothes and her mom sent her back in old, faded, stained, out of season, clothes with holes in them (of course not all those at the same time) but basically she kept the new clothes and sent her in junk I would be embarrassed to put out at a yard sale, let alone on my kid. When we did send her back in an outfit BM sent her to us in, BM's mother called DH and chewed him out. She apologized when he told her that those were the clothes her daughter sent her granddaughter in. Now BM instructs SD to bring back "HER" (BM's) clothes on Friday. Well, that's fine if she wants her clothes back, but SD goes to school here and if she wears her school clothes on Friday and when we go to pick up SD, she tells us she can't find them and SD is wearing old clothes again... we cannot afford to keep buying clothes to get lost at mom's house. She's only there on the weekend and needs her good clothes for school. I agree that it's terribly unfair to SD to have her mom reminding her all the time to bring 'her' clothes (no, they are not her clothes, they belong to SD) and to have dad say she can't wear school clothes because then she'd have nothing to wear for school. Her dad would not have a problem letting her take whatever she wants if she didn't lose them, so it's just another one of those things that an angry parent(s) is doing that hurts the child. And my husband is not innocent, he's angry he loses clothes that are expensive to replace. I don't know why BM can't keep track of one outfit when she's only there for two days. I can assume she's being vindictive or just irresponsible, but it would be wonderful if she didn't keep the clothes her daughter needs for school.

and we'd even be happy to get them back dirty... as long as we get them back. I know how to take a stain out that has set for a week.

Shamrock, I meant fortunately for the laundry situation.

Ima, if the rules are meant to be adjusted to situations, I agree. But you were the one who posted them as rules.

I agree with those rules. I didn't write them but I did post them and I think that both parents should be mature enough to think of what's best for their kids, even if it means sucking up their own bitter feelings. The rules don't need to be adjusted to situations, the attitudes of parents that put the kids in the middle or otherwise do things that hurt their kids need to be adjusted. (like not letting a teenager wash her clothes).

When my son was 8 or 9, he was at his dad's for about a month. During that time, he grew and when I went to pick him up, his dad made him wear the pants he had worn a month earlier. They were so tight, he couldn't button them and they were almost three inches too short. I was ANGRY!!! It was humiliating for my son to wear those clothes and if we had stopped (which I didn't because I didn't want him more embarrassed), didn't his father care how it might make him feel? Nope, he only cared that I wasn't going to get a pair of pants HE bought. When he stopped seeing my son (when my son was 12), the court ordered him to return my son's belongings and he threw all of them away. Clothes, toys, bike, etc. I went to his house with a court order and he threw his hands up and said it's all gone. My son was devastated. None of those things mattered to me, I can buy him new stuff but he won that bike in a contest and that upset him the most. He didn't hurt me, he hurt the child (but, yeah it hurt me when he hurt my son.. so maybe that was his mindset). I'd send my son in brand new clothes and get them back with bleach spilled on them or holes cut into them. I still sent him in nice clothes because I wanted my son to look nice all the time. Of course, he never kept my clothes, he'd send him back wearing them with bleach spots and holes. Parents need to grow up and it's not right what happens to the kids that get stuck in the middle. What kind of father won't let his daughter wash her clothes is beyond me.

Apparently he is afraid she will break it, casue water overflow etc. Which she has never done. Frankly, it sounds to me like most SMs are happy if every family member has clothing in laundry basket as appointed and folds and puts away their own clothing.

"Apparently he is afraid she will break it, casue water overflow etc." That is sooooooo bizarre. With today's washers is that even possible? Maybe daughter needs to give dad a lesson on using washers to take away his fear and see that she's actually capable of washing her own clothes and not breaking his washer. Could be a good bonding experience for them.

"Frankly, it sounds to me like most SMs are happy if every family member has clothing in laundry basket as appointed and folds and puts away their own clothing." I'm missing this, where do you see this?

IMA,

that's a sad story about your son's bike. He'll remember it his entire life. The BM in your case is hurtful as well because she isn't making any effort to return her daughter's school clothes. That's put the burden entirely on you. You are a great stepmom for caring enough to take the trouble to keep track of those clothes. The BM doesn't appear to be losing any sleep over what her daughter wears.

As for that list, it doesn't hurt to have a reminder every now and then to avoid displaying anger in front of the kids. Otherwise, much of that list reminds me of one of those books from the 70's that preached joint custody as the solution to all problems. Of course, it hasn't worked out that way. If both parents are really cooperative, then the list isn't necessary. If one parent is uncooperative, dishonest, cruel etc. then the list is unrealistic and, for point 11 and points 16 onward, risky.

Well, I don't know about books from the 70's, I was a little kid then. But, I do think joint custody is what's best for kids, it's not a solution to all problems. My husband grew up in a home where his parents were happily together. It's very foreign to him to say it's better for a child to spend a majority of time with one parent and only see the other on the weekends. That may be necessary when parents live far away from each other but in the same town or close enough to work out something more even is probably better for the kids. I'm sure when there is abuse, substance or mental issues, it's best to protect the children from harm, but if both parents want to be involved, then shared custody would be best for the kids. It may not be best for the parents and it may be inconvenient to the parents or the parents may be angry at each other but kids want both parents in their life. That is why many times, they hold out hope that their parents will reunite. That is why they resent a step parent that might get in the way of the parents reuniting, even if the parents both know it will never happen and don't want it to ever happen and even if they tell the kids. Kids want both parents. The rules are supposed to be a reminder to the parents that some of the things we do are harmful to the kids, even if we justify it. In some cases, there are issues that can't be ignored.. substance abuse, mental illness, or other issues and you're not dealing with two reasonable parents that can follow the rules or put their own problems aside and do what's better for the kids. But, when it's maturity issues, jealousy and anger at the other parent, there's no excuse to put the kids in a worse situation. The bottom line in the cooperative parenting class was telling parents "grow up and see what you are doing to your kids!" and my guess is that the parents that were there voluntarily are going to take it seriously, the parents that were not there (wouldn't even take the class) or where forced to be there by the court where probably not as receptive and don't think they are doing anything wrong. My SD's mom refuses to take the class, we went voluntarily and wanted to find ways to get along with her better. But, she has found a way to turn everything around and make herself the victim. I send her copies of all school bulletins, she denies she gets them and accuses us of keeping the information from her. I'm not required to send anything, she is capable of calling the school or going to their website & getting her own information. I do it to be nice but instead, she plays victim (to her daughter even) and tries to cause conflict. If she doesn't see how the things she's doing are hurting her daughter, there isn't anything anyone can do about it. So, I agree that not all parents are going to follow the rules. I used to think she was a reasonable person but her actions are not very reasonable.

I agree that you can't force a parent to be cooperative, but that doesn't mean you have to react or engage in the same behavior. There's a difference between uncooperative and dangerous. Unless you fled an abusive relationship and there is fear for your personal safety, what is so risky about #16 onward? Like I said, my SD's mom is uncooperative but we have sat near her at events, said hi how are you? and been friendly. There's no reason to stay across the room and force the child to choose which parent to go up to, unless you think your ex is going to hit you or start an altercation in front of the child.

My son is now 21 years old. He's in (ARMY) boot camp and will graduate in November. I am flying to SC to the graduation. I don't know if his father will be there. My son is the result of a sexual assault and I am not at all comfortable being in the same room with his father who raped me. There was a time (a long time ago) that I was terrified of him. However, I don't think he's going to do anything to me if we are in the same room and yes, I'd rather not be in the same room with him, but if he's there, I will be polite & say hello. I won't stand so far away that my son has to choose which one to go to after. My son has a relationship with us both and it's not up to me to decide that his dad was an ass so he doesn't deserve my son's attention. It's really up to my son to decide his own relationship with his dad and me. But, I see no reason to be in the same room and make him decide (as if he has to decide who he likes better or who he will go to). It doesn't end when they turn 18, there are weddings, graduations, babies, etc.

and I think it's laughable about doing one's own laundry. I think young kids should have help but then again, if a SM does it, is she trying to jump into the mom role? Overstepping to KKNY. But, if SM says do your own laundry, she's just evil. I don't care what others do but I have always had my own kids do their own laundry since they were 8-9. It is good to teach kids to do for themselves, I didn't want my sons to think they had to have a woman do their laundry like my mom taught my brother, who at 18 would expect one of us (his younger sisters) to do his laundry... then his wife. I also taught my kids to cook and clean. My SD is 9 and has done her own laundry a couple of times but her dad or I do it (oops! didn't mean to 'overstep'... don't tell her mom) She isn't 'expected' to do it, but now that she's going on 10, she is barely getting some chores... like taking out the garbage. My daughter would vacuum and dust at 8 so it's silly to me that my SD that's 9 1/2 can't even make her bed very well and leaves her clothes on the floor. She has to be reminded to dry the floor after her shower, even though it's an obvious puddle because she gets out and drips before getting her towel. These things drive me crazy because my kids didn't do things that way, but her dad has always done everything for her and her mom either did everything for her or doesn't expect her to do anything or maybe she thinks she can get away with it here. Her dad is anal about cleaning and he will go clean up after her and I let him, but he's doing her a disservice in my opinion. She hardly knows how to do anything for herself and I think it's sad. He also gets frustrated and complains to me that she leaves messes around and I tell him that she is capable of doing more and as long as he does it for her, there's no reason for her to do it herself. He's been letting her do more, but it's hard for him to change, he wants it done right away and done right the first time. He thinks it's easier to just do it himself. I don't step in unless she does something like the time she spilled a glass of milk on the table and tossed half a roll of paper towels on top of it and went out to play. (she didn't soak up the spill, just covered it and left). She was 9 years old, I am pretty sure she should know better to wipe it up or tell dad to wipe it up. (he was outside working in the yard & she went outside to follow him around but didn't tell him) That, I did tell her something because it nearly ruined the table and she got teary eyed and said, "I don't know." when I asked her why she didn't clean it up or tell her dad or me.

But, teenagers should do their own laundry, especially girls. I imagine they don't want dad or SM touching their underwear and if something gets ruined, there's another reason to blame SM or dad for doing it on purpose. Also, things might get lost, etc. I know when I was a teenager, I didn't want anyone doing my laundry, not even my mom. Isn't the goal to teach kids to be self sufficient? Not baby them until they are 25 and expect them to go be responsible adults because they have a college degree.

The bike thing is very upsetting! My brother won a go-cart in a drawing when he was 10. It got stolen by our landlady's daughter right out of our basement. I felt so bad for him! He was so proud of it!

I think that the real issue is expecting 2 people, who couldn't get along in a marriage or long-term situation, to get along after the divorce or separation and after they've both been hurt and damaged. It can take a long time to heal and realize that the and focus needs to really on the child(ren). Some people don't want to heal and are happier being bitter and hateful. Some people try to heal too fast and don't give themselves recovery time. Some people heal at just the right speed and everything works out great.

That's why the "rules" are really just guidelines. These are good things to give to newly separated couples so they get a perspective on what they need to work towards. But, really, it is unrealistic for all parents (bio and step) to always do what's best for the child(ren) all the time. We are all human and we all tend towards self-centeredness sometimes. That's not going to be a problem on the grand scale of things. It's when that self-centeredness rules one or all of the parents' lives that these "rules" have to be adjusted.

Sweeby - didn't you say your X is narsisistic? How do these rules work for you? If I was a betting woman, I would say that you have tried to follow them as closely as you can and X has worked them all to his favor.

I'm sure we've all seen these and laughed at them. Heck, someone even bought me a t-shirt with them on it!

The Female Rules

1. The Female always makes THE RULES.

2. THE RULES are subject to change without notice.

3. No Male can possibly know all THE RULES.

4. If the Female suspects the Male knows all THE RULES, she must immediately change some of THE RULES.

5. The Female is never wrong.

6. If it appears the Female is wrong, it is because of a flagrant misunderstanding caused by something the Male did or said wrong.

7. If Rule #6 applies, the Male must apologize immediately for causing the misunderstanding.

8. The Female can change her mind at any time.

9. The Male must never change his mind without the express written consent of The Female.

10. The Female has every right to be angry or upset at any time.

11. The Male must remain calm at all times, unless the Female wants him to be angry or upset.

12. The Female must, under no circumstances, let the Male know whether she wants him to be angry or upset.

13. The Male is expected to read the mind of the Female at all times.

14. At all times, what is important is what the Female meant, not what she said.

15. If the Male doesn't abide by THE RULES, it is because he can't take the heat, lacks backbone, and is a wimp.

16. If the Female has PMS, all THE RULES are null and void and the Male must cater to her every whim.

17. If the Male, at any time, believes he is right, he must refer to Rule #5.

Or what about these:

The Male Rules

1. Men are NOT mind readers.

1. Learn to work the toilet seat. Youre a big girl. If itÂs up, put it down. We need it up, you need it down. You donÂt hear us complaining about you leaving it down.

1. Sunday sports ItÂs like the full moon or the changing of the tides. Let it be.

1. Crying is blackmail.

1. Ask for what you want. Let us be clear on this one:
Subtle hints do not work!
Strong hints do not work!
Obvious hints do not work!
Just say it!

1. Yes and No are perfectly acceptable answers to almost every question.

1. Come to us with a problem only if you want help solving it. ThatÂs what we do. Sympathy is what your girlfriends are for.

1. Anything we said 6 months ago is inadmissible in an argument. In fact, all comments become Null and void after 7 Days.

1. If you think youÂre fat, you probably are. DonÂt ask us.

1. If something we said can be interpreted two ways and one of the ways makes you sad or angry, we meant the other one

1. You can either ask us to do something Or tell us how you want it done. Not both. If you already know best how to do it, just do it yourself.

1. Whenever possible, Please say whatever you have to say during commercials..

1. Christopher Columbus did NOT need directions and neither do we.

1. ALL men see in only 16 colors, like Windows default settings.
Peach, for example, is a fruit, not a color. Pumpkin is also a fruit. We have no idea what mauve is.

1. If it itches, it will be scratched. We do that.

1. If we ask what is wrong and you say Ânothing, We will act like nothingÂs wrong.. We know you are lying, but it is just not worth the hassle.

1. If you ask a question you donÂt want an answer to, Expect an answer you donÂt want to hear.

1. When we have to go somewhere, absolutely anything you wear is fine Really .

1. DonÂt ask us what weÂre thinking about unless you are prepared to discuss such topics as baseball or golf.

1. You have enough clothes.

1. You have too many shoes.

1. I am in shape. Round IS a shape!

1. Thank you for reading this. Yes, I know, I have to sleep on the couch tonight;

KK said: "Frankly, it sounds to me like most SMs are happy if every family member has clothing in laundry basket as appointed and folds and puts away their own clothing."

Huh? This lost me too...
I'm not sure if you're complaining that your ex's wife won't do your DD's laundry or complaining that other SMs do their SK's laundry or complaining that they don't.

It's ridiculous that no one will do your DD's laundry, but they won't allow her to do it either. Since she's not at her dad's that much, I doubt she has a closet full of clothes as back-up, so not letting her do laundry is just baffling.
Your DD's dad and SM sound as if they do many baffling things though and aren't keen on DD feeling "at home" with them. And I think that's sad.

If you were complaining about the rest of us who get the kids to use a hamper and put away their own clothes... then I just don't know what to tell you.
Each week, I gather and sort all the laundry. I wash and dry it. I iron anything that needs it. I fold it all and distribute it to its owners to put away.
Most of the moms and SMs here have some variation of that system, and I think it's quite reasonable to expect that other family members help out by keeping their dirty laundry in one place and putting away their own clean laundry.

ceph,

"Most of the moms and SMs here have some variation of that system, and I think it's quite reasonable to expect that other family members help out by keeping their dirty laundry in one place and putting away their own clean laundry. " -- this is what I was trying to say -- I think I recall various complaints re laundry piling up, etc.

I sent her with clothes for every activity and days she will be with him. I do have to say she brings everything home.

My SS comes to us in decent clothing, his mom has nice taste and likes to shop. Because I would appreciate the return of the clothes my kids wear to their dads, I am sure to send him home in what he came in. Not because hes not allowed to take "our clothes" or clothes we've bought him home, but because I'd like that courtesy mself. My Daughter has taken countless items to her Dads I've not seen since- not such a big deal because her Dad and SM also buy her a lot of clothes and she comes home dressed decently. My son, unfortunately goes to his Dads in school clothes on Friday and returns Sunday in rags, holes in them, two sizes too small, and smell horribly because him and his GF smoke. A constant battle, until recently his Dad paid $25 mo for CS so I was furious to supply his home with clothes too. Now, support got modified and I don't resent so much that the clothes get left there, just that there is still a collection there of nasty, stinky shredded clothes that are too small that he comes home in. I throw them away e/o weekend in hopes he'll run out soon.

The rule in my house regarding laundry--and it applies to all children and my husband--I don't look for things to do. If your laundry makes it to the laundry room, I am happy to wash, dry, fold it and return it to your bed for you to put away in drawers. Otherwise, they are on their own.

Sorry, but I no longer think that joint custody is best for kids. I did ten years ago - and so did my friends. But that was before I went through four kids in various types of joint custody - and I watched a couple of my best friends go through it as well. We are all now firmly on the side of sole custody. Most people that I know have come to this realization eventually.

It's not the inconvenience of losing clothes or arranging schedules. Rather, it's the realization that, as the kids get older, their lives just aren't good enough. They've spent too much time moving back and forth and coping with the inevitable difficulties of transition. They haven't spent enough time just growing up and having fun. They are way too focussed on their parents' lives. They just can't relax in one place and call it home.

My husband has a great way of putting it. Imagine that you had two different spouses - one a business person in the city and one a farmer in the country. Now imagine that you had to spend your life alternating weeks between these two places. How strong would your relationships be? How rested would you feel? How much progress would you be making in your hobbies and sports? This is how we ask children to live at the most vulnerable time of their lives.

This is oldest problem in the book!!!!

I only have 25% visitation which boils down to every other weekend and special days, I pay a great deal of child support nowhere in my order does it state I have to supply clothing and extras for him during his stay as a matter a fact it states she is to send a night bag with all the essentials needed during his stay but the down side was she would sent the most ugliest rags she had and then had the nerve to complain about things not coming back and considering the amount of child support I pay and the quality of the clothing or condition I thought it to be petty. So I started buying his cloths for my house. Now she doesn't send a bag I told her not to and as soon as he gets home he goes straight to his room and changes and sets what he came in aside to wear home sunday which is a big hassle cause we might be out doing something and we have to go home so he could change. The problem now is I have to keep a constant supply of new socks because every weekend he leaves with a new pair and leaves behind some rags that are only good enough to be thrown away, and sometimes he even comes in his 2 year old little brothers sock and she has the nerve to ask why her socks aren't coming back, its ridiculous and a waste of perfectly good cloths and money sometimes, he grows out of things sometimes before he has a chance to make good use of them.... Ehh o'well que sera sera!!!

SMof3

I think it can only work if you live VERY close togethor. My X lives in next town over, and now that DD and her friends drive, it isnt a big deal. But I agree, the parents have to think about the kids life.

vbunch, socks are a whole other issue. My SD (that lives with us full time) came back with NO socks several times last year and summer. She always wore socks to her mom's and came back with her shoes and no socks. Not worth complaining about, which is what I think she wanted. It resolved itself when SD asked for a new pair of shoes because her shoes got stinky from wearing no socks and she was told she'll get new ones for back to school. She spent summer at her mom's and mostly wears flip flops there. So far this year, she's not gone sockless because she knows we aren't going to run out and buy her new shoes if she lets them get stinky from no socks. We also told her about foot fungus from wearing athletic shoes with no socks.

ima, not making fun of anyones dilemmas but I almost spit out my tea after reading your title. Funniest thing I've read in ages. :) hahahahaha!!

My youngest doesn't have to go visit her father for her to come back with no socks - her socks disappear at home. Last spring I bought 12 identical pairs of socks, and I can find about two pairs.

There was a great "Married with Children" episode that not only had Peg losing Als socks, but then every man in a high school auditorium had mismatched socks. It was hysterical.

My stepdaughter usually arrives in underpants that are too small and filled with holes. I throw them out right away. I have a bag of inexpensive Hanes underpants and I usually put a pair in the bin for her to wear back to the BM's. Strangely, she never wears the Hanes underpants back to our house.

It's obvious that the BM is sending her in the old underpants so that she'll come home in new ones. I don't really mind if I have to invest a dollar or two in underpants - and they're easy to buy (unlike winter coats and shoes). But it amazes me that the BM is going to so much trouble to get her hands on them.

KKNY,

I think that you're right about the two houses working if the parents live VERY close together so that the children can move seamlessly between the houses. They can play with the same neighbours after school, regardless of which house they're in. My daughter has a friend whose parents have townhouses side-by-side and the joint custody is working well. However, I can't see how the parents could possibly hope to remarry under these circumstances. Who'd want to live next door to the ex? It seems as though they've put their personal lives on hold while their daughter is young, which is definitely their right to do.

Oh Boy, we have this issue with G-son. It's a running joke here that if we send him back to his mothers with any new clothes or shoes we will never see them on the child again-EVER.

But, as long as I know he has decent clothes and shoes to wear I really don't care if it's at Moms or here. So we buy a pair or two of shoes a month because she keeps all his well fitting good ones and sends him in whatever. I look at it this way maybe it is her way of letting us know "Hey kid needs shoes, I can't afford it."

Thankfully the clearance racks have been very good to G-son and I never mind buying him clothes or shoes even if I only see them on him once.

Now this does majorly pixx my SS29 off, but he is emotionally invested in this anger/drama/trash talking with baby mamma (not saying this is the case with posters here at all, just our experience)so cannot just let it go and see the big picture. He writes his name in sharpies on the insides of what he purchases and sends G-son back in what he came over in. G-son has plenty of clothes kept here to wear, needing clothing on this end is not the issue.

I don't want to get involved in that drama, so leave em to it.

I think the solution is to have your own clothing for child at both places and just plan on some coming up missing on occasion esp if it's one of the kids favorite items they'll want to wear it both at moms & dads house. This is why clearance racks are wonderful- you can get 2, keep one!

SMo3,

That is why I said joint custory is more workable when kids are older and can drive -- when that happens, I think the kids tend to have friends from an area further away. But still parents have to live close.

"It seems as though they've put their personal lives on hold while their daughter is young, which is definitely their right to do."

And I believe it is the right thing to do.

I'm wearing mismatched socks right now :) I've never been one to keep track of things that just seem so insignificant to me.

In fact, the last time my DD went to visit her father, I have no idea what I packed for her (although I know I would pack for an army) and I certainly wouldn't know whether it ALL came back. Perhaps it is because she rarely visits him, but I'd rather her be comfortable than worry about me being right. (custody order says he is to provide clothes and such at his residence) And perhaps it is also because I just don't have that personality to remember all of those things that it doesn't bother me.

But I do remember these fights as a child. They made feel ashamed and a burden to all around me. I don't want my DD to go through/feel that.

Reading the underwear incidents reminded me of bra incidents we had with bm and sd.

We would buy bras and sd would wear them over there and they would disappear overnight! Really irritating. Wonder how many training bras bm stockpiled during that time? Probably enough so that she will never have to buy her new kids any!

I am kind of like nivea, try not to get bothered about little things, but annoying things happened...on numerous occassions DD left her clothes at dads and later could not find them. but then again she brought home SM's jacket once that looked similar to hers.

DD is grown and it is not my problem to keep track of her things but every time she goes to dads (which is more often now than coming to me) she leaves somehting there: college planner, shoes, coat, toiletry, make up, books etc. She never leave anything at my house, I guess because I ask 100 times did you pack XYZ?

nivea, if it wasn't a rare occasion but all the time, you might feel different. If you had more than one kid or were on a tight budget and couldn't afford to keep replacing school clothes that disappear, you might feel different. It's not a little thing when we spend several hundred dollars on new clothes and keep ending up with old junk.

When I met DH, he would send SD to BM's in the worse thing he had. [he never had anything torn because he'd throw out that stuff] but it was what I thought of as the goofiest outfit he had for her. (he was terrible about picking out nice clothes, he'd get a few sets from Target and some were hideous) I asked him why he didn't send her in cute outfits and he said he'd never get them back. I went out & got her a few nice, cute outfits and let her wear them to BM's. My theory is that eventually, BM would have lots of cute stuff for SD to wear there and here. My mistake, she kept the good stuff and still sent her in crap. One day, BM got mad at DH and demanded all of HER clothes back and gave DH a bag with parts of the outfits I had bought.. I later found out through a comment SD made that the clothes BM had been sending SD in were not SD's clothes... they were her older sisters old clothes. SD had her own nice clothes but BM would keep the new clothes we bought an send SD in her sisters throw aways. It's more than annoying when one parent is that vindictive and immature.

In finedreams case, I doubt her daughter's dad kept the clothes on purpose to irritate finedreams. Their daughter forgot things and it probably wasn't happening every weekend or every other weekend. That makes a difference. If it's a few times a year, yeah it's no big deal. She'll outgrow it by the next visit or season. But when it's weekly, it's not so small.

I agree IMA. When it happens all the time it is costly and annoying! With 3 stepkids that would go to their bm's in nice clothes and come back each time in clothes I would not even allow them to play outside in it got very annoying! And when we asked bm for clothes back she would pretend she did not remember the outfits or say they were in the wash. We told her to bring the clothes back dirty if needed. Too bad we never got most things back and the little we did get back got returned when it barely fit. I always loved the purple capris that we bought middle sd that came back 2 years later or ss! I have to say he just looked so cute in purple capris...lol!

"if it wasn't a rare occasion but all the time, you might feel different. If you had more than one kid or were on a tight budget and couldn't afford to keep replacing school clothes that disappear, you might feel different. It's not a little thing when we spend several hundred dollars on new clothes and keep ending up with old junk."

BINGO! When you are the only parent supplying clothes (mom hasn't given a penny in seven months) you can't afford to keep replacing them. Bottom line. Gas is high, food costs is out of this world, daycare is ridiculous! When you have no support from the other parent you have to be frugal and the loss and destruction of nice clothes in frankly unacceptable.

The girls only have what they have and if it all gets destroyed they will be without nice clothes for AWHILE before we can save up enough doe to buy them new stuff. We don't have alot of extra cash and we don't own credit cards. Whay they have is what they have for now.

The money is important - but the stress of never having what the kids need in the house is even worse.

I can't tell you have many crises we had because important items were "lost" at the BM's. It's particularly bad in cold climates because the children need boots, snowpants, hats and mitts to play outside. They also need to carry their running shoes with them for indoor sports. Many tears were shed over breakfast because a kid discovered that some essential item for a field trip or a sports event was at the BM's - and the BM refused to answer the phone or, if she answered, denied ever seeing the article. It was a nightmare.

Our lives are a million times better now that we have a ironclad rule that nothing ever leaves the house.

I would never again put myself or the children through the stress of trying to "share" things with someone who is fundamentally untrustworthy. It's like biting your own bum.

My Skids have plenty of clothes and they do bring a bag from biomom but in the last 2 years or so she has stopped phoning and saying there is somehting missing and my dh now has stopped being petty as well cause i tell him its there clothes...who cares what comes and goes! they wear it not us!. There are times where there is an event we go to when we watn them dressed nicely, we have back up that here at our house. They also have 'good' clean clothes at moms for good occasions that they also do not bring here.
And i read a thread of not cleaning clothes or use of laundry machine? what load of crap is that!!!
my sd had her period a few months ago and was embarassed to go to her dad so she came to me inteh bathroom and asked if i would clean her underwear. She was worried she ruined them cause of the stains. I had oxyclean..works wonders on those monthly bills for nature! she appreciated it and regardless to the fact that we are not always onthe same page me and her, i will not leave her feeling bad about underwear stains. She looked humiliated. and i felt it was my right as a woman to help her.
I even helped a poor father in the pharmacy last week...lol..he looked lost and panicky inthe pad section. lol...he said his 12 year old daughter just started her period that morning, mom was at work what do i do!!! i can't reach her on the phone...i thought to myself..why the panic? i guess its a guy thing. Pointed him out several brands and sizes..he bought 3 of each! heheehhehe..

I may catch a little heat for this, but oh well. I think the BP's should be respectful of the others in the house as well. I've bought FSD quite a few nice things. One particular thing was an outfit for her to wear to have pictures taken for FDH and probably wear to church since she had no clothes suitable for church. She was overweight and short and most clothes didn't fit her and I never had her alone to take her shopping. But this outfit, I bought secretly and had FSD try on and it fit perfectly. We took pics. A couple of weeks later, we were getting ready for church and FSD states she has nothing to wear. I asked about that outfit and FSD gave me a blank stare like she couldn't remember. then FDH said he let it go to BM's the weekend after the pics were taken for her to wear there. It never came back. I really did feel a little disrespected because, even though it was FSD's outfit, I had bought it for her and I'd like to have seen it on her more. Oh, and then, a few years later, I saw FSD's sister wearing it. Nice, huh? We had a couple more instances like that with jeans. And I posted previously about the jewelry. All he would've had to say was "FSD would like to wear that outfit to such-and-such. Would that be ok with you?" I would've said yes every time, but it would've been nice to have been asked.

Threads like these really make me realize that my DD's father isn't all that bad :) But, then again, I probably wouldn't notice something missing. And I probably do send a pair of socks that may have a hole or mismatched or whatever, so it's become just an agreeable two way street with us.

However, I really do think some of this is personality based.

Ashley, I don't really understand why you would feel disrespected. IMO, gifts are given unconditionally...without strings attached. But, again, it's probably personality and so forth, but that wouldn't have even occured to me to ask someone who gave a gift to DD as to what she can/can't do with it or take it anywhere. That would just seem, well, odd to me. I would've approached the situation out of concern that Dad hasn't bought suitable clothes to keep at his house, not just one outfit that came as a gift.

"Oh, and then, a few years later, I saw FSD's sister wearing it. Nice, huh? "

Doesn't everyone pass their clothes down to their younger siblings?

I do have to say in fairness for EOW parents/stepparents they probably do not want to buy tons of clothes for their homes. If the kids come there twice a month it is not like your going to have a whole wardrobe for them.

But that is when personalities come into play I guess. In a perfect world the cp would let the child bring clothes to the ncp's home for the weekend and then the things would come back home. The NCP would buy a few nice things as well to keep at their home. And everyone would live happily ever after.

Too bad it never works that way. You get NCP's keeping clothes or sending them back ruined. You have kids forgetting essential items at one parents home when they need them at the other. And then all parties start resenting eachother because it becomes a huge hassle!

Sometimes with all the stepfamily issues I almost understand why people in the old days stuck out miserable marriages.

"Sometimes with all the stepfamily issues I almost understand why people in the old days stuck out miserable marriages."

And often a few years later these "miserable marriages" are no longer the least bit miserable:

http://lifetwo.com/production/node/20070123-divorce-often-doesnt-make-people-happier-sometimes-staying-together-does

I guess I don't understand that, Mom2emall. At all really. Not to say I would expect the ncp to have a whole wardrobe, but I would expect them to have appropriate clothes for special activities for their child.

An example, I do not go to church, but my ex does. If he asks me to send a dress or whatnot, I certainly would. (although he has never made a request) But on my own, I wouldn't remember and I don't think it is fair to put the burden on the cp to make sure the ncp has everything needed materially. I mean, the ncp is still their childs parent! It just doesn't compute to me at all.

Nivea,

What I mean is that when I was a kid I would bring clothes with me to my dads house when I went there EOW. I would always bring the clothes back home with me as well. At my dads house I did have some clothes, but not much. And when my stepmom noticed that something was not going to fit me much longer she would send it home with me for me to get a little more use out of it.

My dad paid cs and did occasionally take me shopping for shoes and clothes that I could bring home with me.

If my dad was planning on taking me somewhere that required me to dress up I think he would aske my mom if I had anything nice I could bring with me. If I did she would pack it, if not then he would buy it and most times send it home with me.

It worked well and they never argued over clothing (I have asked them since I have become a stepparent).

I read your article TOS and actually liked the article. I do think that people nowadays tend to throw in the towel on their marriage when it could be saved. I know my parents made the comment years ago that they were young and immature and probably could have made things work if they had tried. I also have friends who have gone through divorce only to say years later that they wish they would have tried harder to fix the marriage.