OK, I'm not Chelsea, but in retrospect, let me tell you how bad an idea this is. My step daughter was used as a therapist by her mother. The girl knew everything about the trouble with her father (except what part her mother played in it.) She even knew about their sex lives! At the time she was 14 years old. I think this is a TERRIBLE idea, for several reasons. 1) it forces the child to have to deal with things they haven't the maturity to handle and especially at a traumatic time in their lives. 2) it forces the opposite parent to have to "defend" themselves by revealing things better left between adults 3) it puts the child into the position of judge/jury and stresses them by making them feel the pull of loyalty and guilt of not handling it well 4) it's nearly impossible to give an impartial version. Finally, it can actually alienate a child from one or both parents and kids need their parents! To me, making a child part of the divorce through sharing information with them other than that of the most reassuring to them is tatamount to child abuse; I feel that strongly about it. And if the disaster that my step daughter has become as a result of this says anything at all, it would seem I am correct. To further support my opinions, my own kids were part of a marriage broken by extreme violence, drinking and infidelities brought into the home. I made a point of shielding my kids as much as possible, did not disparage their dad and supported them as much as possible. They do not have tormented relationships with their father to this day, but do see him with their own eyes, in a realistic light that they came to over the years as their maturity allowed it.

Well sulost, my DD, at 14 knew about her dad's sex life with the OW. I didnt tell her, but trust me she knew. Dad was out of the house too much, and is now living with this person. And yes, we were still married and living togethor. Is taht tantamount to child abuse???

Oh, yeah, the old elephant in the living room method of child raising. That works really well. (sarcasm intended)

I found out afterwards that during my H's affair, before he moved out, at least one of our kids had decided that he was gone so much because he didn't want to spend time with his children. How do you think that made my child feel?

And how exactly did you prevent the kids from knowing about the "extreme violence and drinking?" So when dad was irritable, they got to think it was something they did that made him mad, not the liquor?

When kids don't have an explanation, they blame themselves. After they found out about the affair, my kids never blamed themselves for their father's desertion.

Sulost, I can relate. My SD12 has been her BM's unwilling therapist since her parent's divorce at age 2. She has point blank told her mom she doesn't need or want to be that involved, but her mother continues . . . because it makes BM feel better.
There is a difference between tactful truth and malicious opinion. You can explain to a child that mom and dad aren't together anymore because dad's feelings toward mom changed, but it has nothing to do with his feelings toward child. You don't have to say that dad is a lying, cheating SOB who cares more about his lower body parts than his family. One is fact, the other opinion. The child deserves the right to determine how they feel about dad and his actions without BM deciding for them. As long as they know that the split is not caused by them, the ugliness between the parents should stay just that - between the parents.

I didn't mean to push people's buttons, but just to give my opinion. To explain, obviously my kids knew a lot was going on in the household, although the oldest was just 6. They saw it, they heard it, they lived with it--and yes, that is child abuse right there. It was not necessary for me to discuss it other than to assure them that they were not in any way responsible for the troubles and that even though their Dad was angry with me, we both still loved them. What I intended to say is that kids do not need the excruciating details of their parents problems. They do need to know what is happening as it pertains to their own lives so they aren't scared and anxious and feeling guilty. Also, ages are a factor in how things are handled. They need to know that they can ask questions and get age appropriate answers. They do not need to feel like referees, or take sides. Especially in divorce the needs of the kids should come first. No matter what, kids love both of their parents and my opinion is that the job of a parent is to help kids mature and learn how to handle the crap that life throws them, so that's where any talking needs to head. In a divorce, it's too hard to stay neutral when you are brokenhearted/furious/feeling like you have been hit by a freight train to really stick to the facts, unless you are a really exceptional person. It's been 20+ years since my divorce and my 3 kids are all doing well, so I must have done something o.k. If you disagree with my opinion, please don't attack me or use sarcasm. Isn't this a forum for people to share what they think? Maybe Chelsea has other perspectives and I'd be interested to hear what she says, too!

I am not being saracstic. What I am asking, sincerely, is why is OK for Dad's actions (which to some speak louder than words) show his sexual activities to a teenager?

I disagree with what you say are "facts" versus "opinions."

"You can explain to a child that mom and dad aren't together anymore because dad's feelings toward mom changed (opinion), but it has nothing to do with his feelings toward child (opinion). You don't have to say that dad is a lying (fact), cheating (fact) SOB (unnecessary expletive) who cares more about his lower body parts than his family (not the best way to phrase the fact that affairs can produce changes in brain chemistry similar to those produced by drugs, both of which can cause you to lose interest in anything but the high and that many affairs are actually an attempt at self-treating depression)."

Oh TOS, sometimes I wonder if you really believe what you are saying or if you just enjoy playing devil's advocate.

I would put it pretty close to fact that dad's feelings toward mom changed. I would also be willing to bet that child did not drive dad into another's bed.

Though you seem to like to pick apart a poster's choice of words rather than address the true issue, I will attempt to explain again in words that may connect with you. You can put things two ways - one that leaves your feelings about a person out of the explanation, and one that forces it upon the person. When talking to your children about an issue between adults, which is more appropriate and in their best interest?

I do not merely play devils advocate - I have never posted anything that I do not believe. I have known of too many cases where the cheating husband himself says that he still loves his wife but the affair partner is an addiction to believe that one can assume anything about whether his feelings have changed; I suppose you would try to convince your children that his feelings about them have NOT changed when he goes from being a devoted father to refusing to call or see them, as happens in many cases - they are not going to believe that, and they are going to see you as a liar or an idiot. Saying that he still loves his children IS trying to force a point of view upon the children - not that they will buy it. It is not a fact, but an opinion.

If the spouse left for an affair partner, that should be stated. It is a fact, not an opinion.

Hey folks, those of you who can watch or record, Oprah has this very topic on her show today--how to talk to kids about divorce. Bet it's interesting!

It's a matter of the children's age and maturity as to what they will believe, and what they should hear. Regardless, they need not hear the parents feelings on the matter. Your father left, he has decided to be with another woman, he will always be your father and see you whenever possible. Story told. Feelings left out. Child left to determine how they feel.

Justnotmartha,

Except by leaving, Dad has made a desicion -- that he will not live with mom or child. Becasue by moving out he is no longer living with either.

What do you think teenage daughter thinks?

Kkny, I'm sure a teenage daughter would initially think her father is an a$$ - but she is likely mature enough to understand the situation and come to that conclusion on her own. She can also determine if she wants to try to understand her father's reasonings or not. She does not need her BM in her ear telling her dad is an a$$. Both these woman are angry and hurt, but on different levels. The BM should leave her feelings out of it when dealing with her daughter.

"Except by leaving, Dad has made a desicion -- that he will not live with mom or child. Becasue by moving out he is no longer living with either."

I don't understand your point. I had said dad left and decided to be with another woman. What is the arguement?

That he is not only not living with Xwife, he is not living wiht child.

And I dont tell her Dad is an A$$ or that his GF is a golddigger. She says that.

"What I am asking, sincerely, is why is OK for Dad's actions (which to some speak louder than words) show his sexual activities to a teenager?"

It's not ok in my opinion,for EITHER parent to tell their kids about their sex lives.
I speak from exprience that when my mom was married to stepdad number 1,I was about 15 and had to constantly hear about their sex life (or lack there of) and it scarred me in alot of ways!
Sexuality and parents do not mix with any child.Trust me,they would prefer not to think that you even have sex.

Gotcha - I figured that was an assumed, perhaps I should have clarified. If your daughter comes to those conclusions on her own, more power to her. It's well within her right.

All I have been trying to say, without anyone's particular situation or child in mind, is that parents should be adults and leave their kids out of their problems. It is not responsible parenting to fill their kid's head with their own anger, resentment and hurt. The kids have enough of their own, they don't need to carry the adults, too. You can tell a child what is happeneing in their world without filling in how you personally feel. . . especially when that is likely negative and painful. If you remain neutral it gives them a chance to form an honest opinion, not one based on what mom says. Aren't they entitled to that?

Why would you tell a child that his father will see him whenever he can? That is often not the case, and in some cases the father never sees him again after he leaves. Then you have to explain why you promised the child something that didn't happen.

when ever he can could just be a nice way of saying when ever he feels like it . . . it puts the burden of justifying his schedule on him.

No, it excuses his lack of contact with his children.

Thanks to everyone for sharing opinions - my situation is a bit different and I am at a complete loss. I am not sure what is right and wrong anymore and I would love to hear what everyone else thinks - I will try to be as brief as possible -

BM left DH & SS when SS was a baby. I did not meet DH until years later when SS was 4. BM has had off and on contact w/SS thru the years, literally sometimes we went years and heard nothing from her. For the most part, she would show up every few months or so and then disappear again. DH never received dime of support. I NEVER EVER said a bad word about BM to SS. I refrained even when sometimes I wanted to scream after another one of her "I'll pick you up at such and such time" and then she never showed or even called to say why, and I was left yet again to clean up her mess.

I could go on and on with examples from this woman. I understood even less after I had my own BC. How could anyone treat their child that way? I would die before I let another woman "mother" my child. Doesn't seem to bother her at all, I have NEVER been able to figure that one out.

Anyway fast forward 10 years SS just turned 16. BM came back in his life couple years ago ready to be a mother now and it has been pure hell ever since. He prefers her since she has no rules, lets him smoke, drink, do whatever, no curfew. Because of all this, I thought it would be good idea to limit her access to him. Course that is not my place, DH for whatever reason disagrees. For my own sanity, I went thru brutal process of disengaging about year ago. I am in a much better place now.

So with all that in mind - here is my question - BM has told SS outright lies. Horrible horrible lies. And he believes every word she says. I don't understand why he believes her, but he does. Lies are so many it would take forever to even remember all of them but the biggest is that the reason she and DH divorced was because DH left her for me.

So what do you all think? Should we sit him down and tell him the truth? How much truth? The entire truth is pretty ugly. I do not want to be involved in this but my idea is for DH to sit down with him and explain that if he is old enough to be lied to, he is old enough to know the truth, and then hand him a copy of the divorce proceedings and tell him to read and note the dates. What do you all think? Is that a bad idea? Would that be wrong?

He is 16 now... if the topic comes up I would simply say ... I think deep down you know that that is not true and if you ever want to hear the facts of the situation we are here... and then let him approach you two with it. Kids aren't dumb even if he is in a dither bc mom showed back up and is being fun mom on top of that.. eventually it will fade and deep down he does know and remember the truth...
If he does come to you or DH or both... tell him the truth ... leave out emotion or name calling just the facts ...
Just for a point of reference: my daughter father commited suicide when she is old enough to understand ... I will tell her the whole truth and nothing but the truth ... I decided a long time ago that she deserved nothing less and I was not going to lie for him... which is in essence what I would have to do.