"The way we got together brings too much baggage I think."

It brings A LOT of baggage into the relationship.

- Your Ex may never forgive her and will have LOTS of truthful ammunition to throw her way. And lots of righteous indignation to fuel her flame-throwing.

- Your children may never forgive her for breaking up their family. (And I do mean never.)

- If your wife badmouths her and your children are angry at her (both likely) and they act like angry children, then she is unlikely to be the kind, loving, patient stepmother you want to someday provide for your daughters.

- There are events in your daughters' lives where both parents will want to be there. It will be enormously more difficult for you and your Ex to peacefully co-exist in the same place if your wife is "the other woman". That means your girl's school plays, graduations and weddings will be tense and hard to enjoy.

- Because you cheated with her, she is likely to suspect you may someday cheat on her, and act in ways that are jealous and irrational. Kind of like the frequent blow ups you are already having. And of course, marriage won't cure the insecurity.

- Her ethics in dating a married man are also not above reproach. You kind of have to wonder about the quality of her character. Is this the kind of person you will be proud to introduce to your parents, your boss, your children? Will how and when you met be a permanent source of embarassment and shame in your life?

- If you start over, you will at least have a fresh start. She will fade into the role of "the person who helped you realize your marriage wasn't working", so your relationship will have had some small positive impact - perhaps even, positive on the balance if your marriage really was doomed.

As for reasons to stay with her?...

- Dogged determination.
- Self-destructive tendencies.
- Don't want to not have someone.
- The damage is already done.
- You don't deserve better.

I'm not doing real well -- Do you have any better ones?

I lover her is one. But everything outside of us seems to be a disaster. I have two girls and one has already asked, in front of GF mind you, if I was dating GF while I was still married to mom. What a shocker that was. GF reacted in a Jerry Springer kind of way. Don't want to launch in to that though. But my point with GF is these questions will continue to come up and if we (she) can't deal with them in a grown up way, without the huge blow, up, a marriage won't be successful. And I don't have any desire to enter into a marriage that could fail. Don't want to go through that again.

And I may add Sweeby you are incredibly accurate in your assessment. Everything you say is spot on. My GF wonÂt come near my X. And it bothers me that she wonÂt.

Honestly, your relationship with gf sounds like a rebound. She helped you get over your dead marriage and move on. But things with her are going to stay as they are or get worse. Many affairs don't work in the long run.

For you and your children let this relationship end. Then work on your relationship with your girls. Down the road you have a better chance of meeting someone who will be good to you and your girls.

"I have two girls and one has already asked, in front of GF mind you, if I was dating GF while I was still married to mom. What a shocker that was. GF reacted in a Jerry Springer kind of way. Don't want to launch in to that though. But my point with GF is these questions will continue to come up and if we (she) can't deal with them in a grown up way, without the huge blow, up, a marriage won't be successful."

You've got that right!
And GF certainly should have expected that question. Why didn't she have a gentle answer prepared? Why didn't you both?
And do you plan to lie about it? Or be truthful?
Because a lie will undermine your overall credibility with your daughters (They're unlikely to believe you completely and will likely discover the truth someday anyway); but the truth will confirm their worst fears.

Every point Sweeby has made on this topic is exactly right.

And why on earth would you be shocked at your daughter's question? (Unless, of course, she is too young to have physically developed the capacity for speech...)

Sounds like GF's guilty conscience is being sublimated into intensely immature and insecure defensiveness.

"GF reacted in a Jerry Springer kind of way."

IMO, I would not want someone so immature and irresponsible around my children(much less in a step-parenting role!) The step-family situation is hard enough without someone who can't handle it without adding drama. That reason alone is enough to justify ending the relationship with this person. Good luck!

Let your GF walk out and leave it that way. Sweeby hit everything right on the nose!
Your girls will never accept this woman and you obviously want your GF to approach your exwife.
So my opinion is , find yourself a new girlfriend cause i wouldn't trust someone who started something with a married person.
i stillhold my ground that if you fall out of love and fall in love with another , end things first before starting something. For the sake of everyone involved.
Good luck to you, it sounds like you have already made up your mind.
You fell out oflove with your wife. There is nothing wrong with that. It happens. But this GF like others say is rebound andi think its timefor her to go. the damage isdone.
AT least you can restart your life over , fresh clean slate, concentrate on your girls now and meet someone downthe road who has higher values. But understand you have alot to deal withright now with your girls cause they will persieve you as a cheater because this is what you've done.

All,

Thanks so much for the insight. Couple things I want to clear up. When I said it was a shocker to hear that question come out of my daughter's mouth it was not the question itself, I fully expect those to come up, it was the setting. GF and I along with my two girls and her one girl were in the car coming back from an ice cream and the question just came out of the blue. I talk to both of them openly and honestly about their mom and I. Second, it is interesting that you all are questioning her morals for entering in to a relationship with a married man. What about me? My morals can be questioned for my role. We both regret the way we got together. I had NEVER done anything like that in my entire life. But I'm coming to the conclusion the way we got together has ultimately doomed our relationship.

I read this, and my first impression was that the OP is a selfish idiot, who destroyed the lives of a lot of people, casually considers dumping the new person as well, and then expects everyone to just forgive a nd forget and act as if it didnt happen.

I think that is common in cheaters. THey expect people to just get over it once they say they are sorry. They have no clue on the damage they have wrought.

I think the GF was the rebound woman, and the cracks in the relationship are becoming glaringly obvious.

Ending it is probably inevitable, and for the best, but its not likely to fix your relationship with your children. They will always know you ditched their mother for someone else. They will then see that you ditched the someone else. They are likely to want nothing to do with you.

Dont expect them to ever get close to you again, or to any woman that you date in the future.Anyone else is going to be a reminder to them of what they have lost because you couldnt do the decent thing and divorce before you cheated.

The kids are angry at you, not at the other woman. They are expressing it at her because she is the weakest link, but you shouldnt expect that their feelings about it will change when you dump the OW. Its you that ruined their lives. Its you that will face their contempt for some years to come. They will take it out on any woman you ever date.

I would probably take the kids to counselling, and attend with t hem, to find professional ways to begin to heal the trauma you have caused.

Kathline,

Your opinion is just that....yours. I'm fine with that. I know what kind of person, man and father I am. Yes, I made a huge mistake and changed the lives of a lot of people. My girls are as close to me today than they have ever been. That's never going to change. I will never hide the facts from them about why their mom and me are no longer together and I'm confident they will forgive me. They both have been to counseling and yes, I was present for many of the sessions. If you knew me you would understand I'm not the sterotypical cheater you described above.

My GF wonÂt come near my X. And it bothers me that she wonÂt.

Why on earth would you want her to? Don't you think the whole situation is difficult enough on your ex without you throwing her replacement in her face? (or is that your intention?) GFs reasons may be more that she is afraid of your ex than any altruism, but if she is willing to keep her distance, why wouldn't you just let her?

I think kathline is right, selfish idiot is a pretty good description.

Trying to force your ex and the woman you left her for into interacting with each other because that's what you want is definitely both selfish and idiotic. What good do you possibly think would come of this?

And, a "stereotypical cheater" is someone who cheats. Your "mistake" (and maybe it was a mistake and maybe it was out of character) is no different than any other married person who leaves their spouse for person they had an affair with. Don't kid yourself into thinking you're better than all those other cheaters because you know what kind of man you really are. All those other men (and women) know what kind of men they really are, too. And they all have their own justifications, same as you do. Doesn't change how much other people are hurt by their actions.

Whithja--

It's good that you're taking some responsibility for the way this situation was brought about, and specifically for your OWN personal role in it. Frankly, that's more than a lot of people would do, and not to sound mean or sexist but it's WAY more than most MEN in that situation would do. So that's all very good, and I'd encourage you to continue going to counseling with the girls as you have been.

I grew up knowing that my dad had cheated on my mom and that it was one of the primary reasons for their divorce, but I never had the attitude that any relationship between he & I was doomed because of it. It has not been a perfect father-daughter relationship between us (for reasons having much more to do with the influence of my SM than anything in my bio-parents' past) and that cheating past has not been without some scars and effects on me. But he took responsibility for his actions, and both he and my mom made many efforts to assure me that their marital problems did not have to control my relationships with either of them or my own feelings about myself. So it's not impossible to build & maintain decent-to-good or even great relationships in such circumstances ****IF**** everyone is a mature adult about it. Where the weak links come in is when any other adults in the picture don't want to behave as such.

The problem comes in with your GFs immature "Jerry Springer"-like behavior (the details of which I of course don't know but can certainly imagine). Basically, if she can't grow up and approach this situation with as much maturity and responsibility as you are, she's tearing down everything you're trying to build back up. As much as YOU may be able to take responsibility and address this situation you put your daughters into in as much of a "being a man" way as you can, if your GF is in any way going to pipe up and be a nasty wench to your daughters, you will be allowing a situation to continue that would become extremely painful, disruptive and even potentially abusive despite YOUR best efforts, intentions and accountability. If the resentment builds between GF and your daughters (which as it sounds, it is likely to), then your daughters will end up having anger not so much at your initial cheating but at your allowing your GF to treat them in negative ways. Then this may very well, in turn, double-back and increase their resentment of the initial affair all over again, and they will question why you dropped their nice loving mother for some Springer-esque class-less b!tch who treats them crappy and can't seem to calm the h3ll down. If you yourself perceive there to be problems between you & GF, and specifically in some of the ways she had treated your children, you are in a position to recognize with foresight that it would not be best to continue this relationship.

I'm old enough to have seen this many times. Bad marriage ends because one partner has an affair. The affair lasts a couple of years or so and then fizzles out. Everyone conveniently blames the affair for the breakup - forgetting that the first marriage was a failure.

Your marriage would likely have ended, even without the affair. It's too bad that it was messy - but that's the past. It's sounds like you've done a great job of supporting your kids through all of it.

Now your problem is the present. You need to be honest with yourself about your current GF. Many affairs start because of opportunity, not because of perfect compatibility or true love. Are you absolutely crazy about this woman? It doesn't sound like you are. In fact, it sounds like you're hanging in there because you left your wife for this woman and now are trying to make the best of a less than great situation.

Better to not make the same mistake twice - or you'll end up being divorced a second time. Take a long hard look at yourself and the type of person you'd like to share your life with. If your heart doesn't race at the idea of getting married to this woman, then it's time to move on and find someone you really love.

Its rare for a man to actually marry the woman he cheated with, apparently. Less than five percent marry the women, and most of those divorce.

I think that it would be a huge mistake for he and TOW to marry.

But what irritates me about this guy is that its all about him. He left the wife and kids for TOW because he didnt have the balls to leave an unhappy marriage. Fine. Thats done.

BUT...

He then introduced this woman to his kids either while he was still married, or shortly after. He didnt even wait a decent interval to let the kids get over the loss of their family before he introduced someone to try to replace that family.

He gave promises to TOW that he loved her, wanted to marry her, intended to spend his life with her. Now he has changed his mind, and thats fair and probably is best. But he is blaming the change of mind...on her. Still not taking responsibility for anything.

TOW gets upset because she feels the ex wife is trying to cause problems. The ex wife probably IS trying to cause problems, can you blame her? i certainly dont.

So, the OW, seeing that he is backing off of the promiseshe made to her, is fed up , and wants to see this resolved one way or another. She is having an emotional meltdown because what she thought was true, no longer is. She leaves, but she is weak and cant stay away from him. What does he do? Instead of having the balls to say, hey, i changed my mind, he keeps getting back together with TOW, instead of ending it for the good of everyone. So, it keeps TOW from moving on, cuz she is hanging on in hope. If he has the balls to end it, NO CONTACT, then , after she grieves, she will probably NEVER be stupid enough to date a married guy again. With the makeup / breakup dance, she is going to waste years of her life on someone who is too selfish to do what is right.

This, in no way , excuses her mistake in the first place.

Nothing this guy is doing/has done had been in a way that is best for everyone. This is all about him. How he can not have his kids angry. How he can have peace with his ex. How he can get out of committment to TOW

what kathline said, every single word.

I can't believe some of the assumptions and accusations a few of you are making. My X and I were separated for 2-1/2 years before the divorce became final. At no time did my kids EVER have contact with GF until after the divorce was final and even then was slight. The current GF left ME to move on. Not the other way around. I don't want to spend a lot of time defending myself here. It's not worth my time. But I suggest some of you people get some facts before throwing accusations and names around. Like I said before, I know what kind of person I am despite my mistake. I'm trying to make this situation turn out the best it can. At no point have I ever not taken responsibility for my actions. This will be the last time I come here for "help".

"Us people" have the facts you've given us. If there are other "facts" we are not privy to, how exactly is that our fault?

You did ask for honest advice. At least some of us people honestly advise you to take a good hard look at your own behavior as is relates to other people's feelings.

Whithja,
The internet is quite limiting source when writing at times and we all jump to conclusion. For instance, i didn't know that you and your ex were separated for 2 1/2 years before the divorce was final. Or else i wouldn't have stated not start something before the papers are due. If you were separated for 2 1/2 years and started the relationship during that to me the divorce is done...especially after such a long time And i didn't know that your kids never met GF until divorce was final. So knowing this shows me your character as a concerned loving father for his two daughters.
You wanted advice on your relationship...my advice has not changed. I think its timefor your GF to leave. And top it off her daughter has issues andyou do not want your daughters to be hurt by that issue either.
Breaking up and getting back together isnota good sign of stableness between you and you are a loving father so dont subject you daughters to her anymore. You GF has her own issues and granted you love one another but sometimes letting someone go is for the best.
Your daughters asking the Other woman question is naturally. Its obvious their mom said something. My SKids did the same. My SD asked in the car infront ofboth ofus. I laughed and said, how can i be the other woman when i was in another province , yoru dad didn't know i existed at the time of your parents divorce. No SD i am not the other woman andi was raised with better values than that. So please do not insult my family and my upbringing. And i strongly suggest if you mother has questions withmatters like this to speak to your dad and not put obsurd lies in your brains.
I was quick to answer because i am dealing with a bitter exwife. But in my situation , things inthe last year are very quiet and its nice.
But i hope you find someone who has less baggage and to concentrate on your daughters.

Quirk,
My issue was this - without some of the facts people were making up their own. That is the fault of the people I'm referring to. And through all of this I never said I was perfect. I've got my own issues I'm dealing with. They play a role in this situation.

I imagine anytime a parent remarries quickly that a child will ask that question. My own son asked me if I was in love with my current husband when I was married to his father. I answered calmly and truthfully that I didn't even meet my second husband until 2 months after the divorce was final. (But he still wrote in a school project that I married Hubby 2 months after divorce. Grrr - sloppy! Made me feel kinda skanky with his teacher IYKWIM.) He also asked me if his father had cheated and that was why we got divorced.

Well Whit, in some ways it's no wonder she's going off!

" have two girls and one has already asked, in front of GF mind you, if I was dating GF while I was still married to mom"
For a start what are your kids doing getting up and in adult issues they have no business being in? And why are you allowing them to disrespect your girlfriend whom you claim to love so much by letting them get away with asking questions that were, obviously fed into their heads by their Muuuuther? Here's a tip. Discipline and Parent your damn kids. Drop the guilty divorced disney dad BS.

"My GF wonÂt come near my X. And it bothers me that she wonÂt."
Why in Pete's Sake does she have to? Obviously her and your Ex don't get along so why try to Make a bad situation worse by forcing them together?

Thats just 2 things I've quickly picked up. I'd LOVE to hear her Side!