I dont think you mean re-open the divorce. I think that is a done deal. Every state allows CS to be revisited, and same with visitiation. Normally there must be a major change in circumstances, or a number of years must have passed. What circumstances are present in BFs situation? If he is earning less, court may say he is "underemployed", which can happen voluntarily and too bad. If it because you two want to start a family, then that is not generally a reason courts will revisit CS.

I dont think school enrollment will constitute a violation. I think the parents should discuss.

This is not your child. BF must discuss with X education. I think starting K is a good idea. Child can change schools and repeat K. Many children do that where I live. In any event -- let me repeat -- not your child.

KK's right -- This is NOT YOUR CHILD, so you have no say in her educational decisions. Do keep out of it. While I get along very well with my son's stepmom now, the first few years were rocky precisely because she inserted herself (or more likely, my Ex inserted her) into my son's educational decisions. She had no business being there -- they weren't even married yet -- and I really resented it. Don't do this to yourself! If the little girl actually turns out to be too young for kindergarten, she can start over in the 'regular (non-charter) school with very little (none?) harm done.

You also might want to read the thread starting "hindsight"

My DH just went through this with his ex. I definitely think your DH should arrive with a preferred visitation plan and the language should be very specific. Example: Mom drops child off at 7:00 pm on Friday and Dad drops off at 7:00 pm on Sunday, or whatever works for your situation. Because there have been some issues with my DH's ex, my DH chose to ask that they meet in a neutral location for pick up and drop off. Your DH will have to show a change in circumstances for CS to be reduced. That could be a loss of income through no fault of his, or increased time with the child. We were able to get a reduction because we were able to prove we had the children 12 nights per month and that percentage allows for a reduction in CS. Joint Custody (in our case at least) allows for equal decision making powers but it is hard to get much enforced. My DH wants my SD13 to go to a smaller private school because of some learning issues, but BM refuses. We could go through a lengthy court battle, but the kids and us are all worn out from it all and my DH just doesn't have it him to fight right now. You can ask for a parenting coordinator to be appointed. They are like a neutral third party who can't enforce anything, but they offer good counsel and advice. As far as the Kindergarten issue, I think it is fine to talk to teachers you know and listen to their opinions. You can present those opinions and your thoughts to your DH, but ultimately it is up to him and his ex to decide. In my experience as a teacher, it certainly doesn't hurt for a child to wait a year to start if they have a late birthday, but typically girls are more mature and even a younger girl will seem older compared to most of the boys. And these days alot of kindergartens follow the developmental play theory and it is more of social experience at the beginning of the year and the academics progress as the year goes on. But again, your DH and BM know the child the best and are best qualified to make that decision.

In addition to the reasons given above, there is a lot to be said for starting kindergarten on time. Someone has to be the youngest in every kindergarten class, and this fad of starting kids later and later can end up totally ridiculous. When we lived in another state, some kids who turned 5 in APRIL were not starting kindergarten the following September. All but one of my kids has a late summer or fall birthday, and all but one of them started school on time.

The former principal of the elementary school some of my kids attended said that research has shown that for kids with learning disabilities it is better to start on time because they get diagnosed and start therapy earlier, on average, than those who wait a year.

One of my kids has a very late fall birthday and is learning disabled. She was going on six when she started kindergarten, and now, years later, she complains about being one of the oldest at least once a week.

I think a lot of the dropout problem is because kids turn 18 before they even start their senior year, and 16 before they even start their sophomore year, so finishing high school seems a long way off.

How long has BF been divorced? What visition does he have now?

My DH has spent a lot of money and gotten nowhere. In meantime, SD will be going to college in 2 years -- so how much of this matters? I worry that a lot of attorneys say they can help you, tell you that you ahve a good chance, and then when judge goes with mom (and I think that the Judges are biased in favor of the mom, no matter what they say), they said, bad luck. Mom will jsut lie, and say I spoke to dad, and then he changed his mind etc. Unless she has a criminal record or uses drugs (and you can prove it), I would not gt hopes up. Jsut my thoughts. Good luck.

I think judges are biased in favor of the one with the best lawyer, or the lawyer they happen to know or like.

Thanks for the good advice everyone...but I need to say just one thing. One thing about this site that really starts to bug me is certain people who take one sentence of a post and turn it into a totally different animal.
I KNOW this little girl is not my child (duh!) but I'm TOTALLY entitled to have an opinion about her education. And that's all it is...an opinion. And for the record, BF feels the same way. She has partial hearing loss and ADD and in my opinion needs some more one-on-one learning time because she's the type of child that withdraws when her younger brother can recognize colors she can't and her older brother teases her about not being able to spell her name. For those of you who can and have offered sincere advice, THANK YOU very much! For those of you who think I need to mind my own business, please note...I'm not here because I think I'm the authority on stepparenting. I don't need the 'she's not your kid' bull****. BF and I are planning a future together and that includes his kids and me and therefore all of us. And I will have all the opinions I want about them if I think it's going to provide a nurturing and loving environment for them.
Okay, off soapbox. Got a little fired up there...sorry.
And they are trying to re-open the divorce. LOOOONG story, but one of the kids' child support was filed under a different case number and the courts in my state don't like to 'bastardize' children, so BF's attorney is trying to re-open to include all the kids under one case number. Also, she left a tremendous amount of community property out of the decree, which in our state is grounds for re-opening. Right now health and welfare has the child support based on her making 19k a year and him making 70k. In the divorce she was awarded the business they built together and that supported their family for the 8 years they were married. At the time of the divorce, they were running between 10&15k a month of personal expenses through the business (gotta love being self-employed!) and she's living in 450k house and driving a Yukon Denali. 19k my foot! However, by one of the kids being under a different case number and trying to consolidate them she's open to the discovery process again as well as BF, who at the moment is trying to rebuild a construction business and not exactly making 70k. He will one day, but not so much right now.
As it stands, the decree has mom as custodial parent and dad with 'reasonable visitation'. If someone can tell me what 'reasonable visitation' is, then I'll fire the attorney tomorrow. This is why we're (yep, me and BF, that's a WE) doing this. Can you imagine spending the next 16 years trying to figure out what 'reasonable visitation' is???
Anyway, thanks for all the help!! I do appreciate it!

I think ... reasonable visitation .... is if the parents can communicate to each other ...hey I'll be by on friday about 6ish to pick up sally and drop her off on sunday about 4ish ... Ok great see you then... Hey can I pick up sally and take her to dinner on tues. ? sure I'll have her ready.

What may seem reasonable to one may not to another. To me it does not work. It needs to be exact dates and times. Something always comes up and parents end up not communicating for whatever reason.

Annabel,

There are a number of issues here.

First as to X obtaining house and business. That is generally part of property setttlement and will not be "redone". Most divorces, even the less amicable ones are settled, and do not go to trial, but regardless, there is a statutory appeal period. That is why I was asking when was your BF divorced. In all liklihood that period has come and gone. In any event, one needs grounds for appeal, and unless your BF was not aware of the children and the property (not that he didnt agree with how court was treating), the divorce and property settlement are done. As to her leaving out community property, if he knew about the property at the time of the divorce he should have brought it up them. I dont think whether property is community is an easy decision, and it may not be community. Agreed different in every state, but I would strongly caution you on getting your hopes on what attorney has said can be done. They get paid by the hour.

Second, in your first post, you ask a question re joint custody. Now, after you have read the divorce decree, it appears that Xwife has sole custody and your BF has "reasonable visitation". As an aside, either he had the world's worst attorney or there are some strange facts, for him to lose house, business, and custoday. Possibly some money for house and business came from her family? In any event, I do commend you for actually looking at the divorce decree. It may be that your BF doesnt communicate well. Given that Xwife has sole custody, I think her choice for school is going to be respected, unless someone can show it is terrible. She may say daughter has special needs, and this school can best address. DD may benefit from special programs, and school has openings this year and may not next year. I know where I live, getting children into special schools is an artform.

As to reasonable visitation, as Cawfe says, this is in the eye of the beholder. My guess, is this is all mediation can handle. CS and custody will go to court. So focus tomorrow on visitation. What is reasonable to one, may not be for another. Yes, he should take a plan. Advise BF to be prepared to be flexible and to remain calm at all times. He should regard the mediation as a process, not a one time event. He can always say he needs to think about it. I would strongly advise him not to say he needs to discuss with you. I dont know if X bears any ill will toward you, but no need to start a fire. I think EOW (every other weekend) plus one night a week is standard for NCP (noncustodial parent), but every state is different. Mom may say that child needs a routine, and EOW doesnt work. Maybe same time every weekend. BF may want to discuss who does pickups. Generally it is split, but if one parent has moved away a significant distance, the one who moved generally bears the additional burden. If I were you, I would not come on pickups at first. Mediation may also bring up questions as to whether overnight girlfriends are allowed when children are there. Some moms push for this, as they dont want a string of girlfriends. If it applies to one parent, it applies to the other.

PS and yes, you may very well be fighting over visitation over the next 16 years. Or even longer. Different issues as children get older.

Little children -- get sick, dont want to be away from home.

Teenagers -- dont want to spend time with any adult, have friends at moms. Also -- get more expensvie, want cars and college.

I think you are vastly underestimating the difficulty of the situation you are getting yourself into, and are unduly optimistic about what can be changed.

You can have all the opinions you want about her education, but you DON'T have any input into the decision. That is between her biological parents. As I said before, starting school on time is even more important for children with special needs.

"Reasonable visitation" is standard wording. It has never been a problem for my exH and me. He has seen them less and less over the years, but I have never refused him if he asked and the kids did not have other plans, and he has never asked them to give up going to birthday parties, etc.

Okay, let me back the bus up. First off, I didn't say x-wife has sole custody, I said she is the custodial parent.
Second, BF defaulted on the divorce because he though they had reconciled. He was living back in the family home, going to counseling, and was called by an attorney friend of his a few days before going into default and asked 'what's this civil thing you've got coming up?'
X-wife is a total snake in the grass and had drained the bank accounts by this time and as you've all said, attorney's get paid by the hour and no one wanted to get involved without a retainer. On top of which the poor guy was devastated. He's lost his father suddenly and in front of his kids, his grandmother, his marriage, all in one year and found it a little hard to muster up the strength to fight. This was Oct. 06.
And there was no house in the divorce (my fault, not clear) they rented. Then after the divorce was final she moved out on the landlord, broke a lease agreement and may be taken to court over it. Now she's doing a lease/purchase on a brand new home. And we're not talking about a few pieces of furniture as community property, we're talking a time-share in Maui, her Denali, another vehicle, and numerous other items.
Here's the problem with defaulting. In our state if someone defaults the final decree has to read exactly like the original divorce complaint. So when she up and served him with divorce papers five days after burying his father, they were SOOOOO vauge. Normally everyone gets an attorney and fights about furniture, visitation, etc. for the next six months. But in BF's case he was back in the house a couple of months later and they were 'working on their marriage' or so he thought. This is where all the crap like 'reasonable visitation' comes in. The stupid decree doesn't cover anything.
That's why we're trying to re-open and get some of this stuff straightened out.
As it stands, x-wife and I communicate more than BF and her do. He's fed up with all her crap. But she's sweet as pie to me and has told BF in the past that the kids love me and she's happy about that. I don't believe that it doesn't sting a little to have your kids like the new girlfriend, but it is what it is.
And about the visitation-this EOW thing may be the standard, but I think it's worth about as much as a wet paper sack. In our situation, both mom and dad are capable, loving parents who both are responsible for exactly half the DNA it took to create these kids and both want to be a part of their life. So how does dad get screwed and get EOW? If mom is concerned about routine, then she should understand that EOW doesn't give dad enough time to even start to create one at his house. He's to busy to try and get in all the fun stuff. All the stuff that he misses in the TWO weeks between seeing his kids. Someone smarter than me is going to have to explain to me how if both parents want, and are able to care for the kids they BOTH helped create, why does it seem like every dad gets EOW? Why not 50/50?
But as we all know, the court system has little regard for what's right or fair.

And kkny, I'm absolutely positive that I'm underestimating the difficulty of the situation I'm getting myself into. I'm also absolutely positive I'm being unduly optimistic about what can be changed. That's the kind of person I am. I absolutely believe that with hard work and determination and the ability to hand the hard stuff up to God and trust Him to make you or me or BF into the person we need to be to get through these situations, that something right will come. It may not be what we want, because what we want and what is right aren't always the same, but something right will come.
I'll also add here the same comment I made on the 'hindsight' thread...if you were to ask a bunch of women who married men without children if they'd do it all over again, you'd probably get as many no's and maybe's as there were on the 'hindsight' thread. Marriage isn't easy.
Also, kkny, I find it strange that you said that BF shouldn't say he needs to talk it over with me in mediation. I think you're headed in the right direction, but I've read a gazillion posts on here about how ticked off the stepmom is because dad won't communicate with her about changed visitation, someone needs to be picked up early, dad won't enforce the rules, dad doesn't want to be the bad guy, ALL these posts that come back to a lack of communication. A lack of someone saying 'I refuse to be the only one that follows the rules. You need to participate when your kids are here'. etc.. I wouldn't tell him to bring me up in mediation, but if he came home and said 'okay, here's what I agreed to' without any prior conversation about what the ultimate goal with visitation is, or worse came home and sprung it on me, I would beat him with a 2x4! I'm at this party, too!!
thanks everyone!

I wasnt saying he shouldnt consult you, just that he should say he has to consider. There is no need for him to share with mediatior and X that he is consulting you. this is not lying. This is just tactfully limiting information to what is needed. He can say, I will think about, and get back to you by say, next Friday.

Okay, forget I even asked about the school thing. I'm not trying to pick out a school for her, I'm not trying to butt in, I'm not saying she couldn't thrive in the classroom. I have an opinion and I had a question. X-wife should've talked to BF before she enrolled THEIR daughter. That's all I'm saying. Maybe we could focus on that aspect of the situation instead of telling me not to be a Nosey Parker.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're all here with questions, right? We occasionaly need a place to vent, right? A little advice from time to time? Let's respect why we're here and quit telling people what rights we do and do not have. Maybe do a little more lifting up and a little less putting down. We're all here for the same reasons.

You sound very angry -- Sometimes the best advice isn't what you want to hear. That doesn't mean it's ill-intentioned.

Annebel, the reason I advised you to 'stay out of' the little girl's educational placement was because that issue became a huge bone of contention between me and my Ex's girlfriend. I really, really resented her 'over-involvement' when, as the mother, I felt I knew best. My son also has learning differences that I had lived with 24/7 for 10 years at that time. I had taken him to specialists and had worked with him for hours on the areas where he was struggling. She'd known him for 2 years every other weekend and hadn't seen any problems. See why I thought I knew best? Undoubtedly, this little girl's BioMom also feels she knows best, and if you appear to consider your opinion of 'equal' weight, you are just asking for trouble. Your opinion will 'earn' it's place if you're around long enough -- My son's stepmother's opinion now does carry equal weight with me. But she's earned that respect over time.

You say that right now you and she have a very good relationship -- Believe me -- You want to keep it that way. BioMom can make your life miserable if she wants to -- Don't make her want to.

As far as visitation goes, my suggestion would be to get a calendar and go through it day by day for the entire year. Work out something that is not just 'fair', but also stable for the child. Remember that it it what's best for the child that is your objective -- not what's 'fairest' for the parents. In other words, 50/50 might be too unstable for a little girl who's also adjusting to school, trying to build friendships, joining activities and sports. Figure out holidays, birthdays, vacations, pick-up and drop-off times, babysitting policies, how to handle changes in schedules. The more you nail down in print in the custody agreement, the more enforceable it is and the less room for argument there is.

My DH's agreement had the "reasonable visitation" wording to, and it was a nightmare. That is why we had very firm wording put into this last agreement. BM had no problem with us having them every weekend, every Wed. night (we go to church on that night also), and any other time really. Except when DH did not do something she wanted him to do, or if CS was late (came directly out of his paycheck so nothing he can do about that). Then, all of a sudden he couldn't see his kids until the money came in. We had nothing to enforce so that is why we have specific times now. IF ANYTHING ELSE, GET VERY SPECIFIC. And, I completely agree with you, I don't understand why Dads are treated like second class citizens. It is a sad thing.

How long have you known the little girl? You mentioned your boyfriend was served with divorce papers in October of last year, if I understood correctly. When was the divorce final? It seems to me that it is way too soon for him to date, much less be talking about a permanent relationship.

TOS,

At the risk of getting flamed, I beleive some dads and SMS fight for more visitation, then joint custody, then sole custody in a battle to reduce CS. Yes, some dads just want to see kids, but some want to reduce CS and for some it is just a power play.

kkny - Do you think BioMoms ever want custody just for the CS? What about my SS's BioMom? I think she blames her son for her decision to move back to Chicago from DC to "save" him from our horrible home of rules, expectations and consequences. It has cost her, since she stopped receiving CS since his hospitalization back in March, she's no longer getting her post-remarriage maintenance since we are paying 100% of son's residential treatment, and she's still on the hook for her townhouse lease in Chicago when she moved back to DC to be with her husband. She stupidly told me that they could really use the money when she was trying to convince me son would be better off in DC, without exposure to his partying peers. What do you think will happen if son goes to live with her? He graduates from high school in June 2008. Do you really think she and her husband will want son to stay when there's no more child support?

I think dads trying to get custody to reduce CS happens a lot more often.

kkny,

I think you are probably right. Before I started reading here, I thought the primary reason fathers fought for custody was the power play aspect.

I think a lot of NC fathers have no idea how much it costs to raise a child, and would quickly find after gaining custody that they are spending far more on the child than they did on child support.

TOS,

I think the cost equation changes when dad remarries or gets togethor with SM. They may figures they have an extrea room.

"I think a lot of NC fathers have no idea how much it costs to raise a child, and would quickly find after gaining custody that they are spending far more on the child than they did on child support."

The funny thing is I know several men in the same situation as my DH. They are paying significant CS, plus they still have to buy all the clothes, take them to doctor's appointments and pay co-pays and prescriptions, buy school supplies, pay for field trips, take them for hair cuts, immunizations, etc. because BM uses the CS to get her nails and feet done weekly and goes to BINGO twice a week. Then, when the kids need things, she calls my DH and tells him how she has no money and if he loved his kids he would take care of this stuff. So, we figure out how to get the things the kids need even though my husband is now self-employed and was recently diagnosed with a heart condition. TOS and KKNY....You need to look carefully at some in the camp that you so veheently defend...alot of them only want custody so they can COLLECT CS.

I meant to type vehemently lol

Before states starting enforcing CS, most children of divorce went with mom. So now that states are enforcing CS, dad gets involved. Draw your own conclusions.

And, CS is meant for a lot of things, including share of rent, food, etc. There are extras, as you call, them on top of that.

kkny - I am sure you believe that every dad that wants custody of their children only wants them to reduce CS (and probably so that stepmom can stay at home and eat bon-bons all day). Not because they love their children and want their children with them.

TOS - "power play aspect"? Your generalization makes all dads sound like scheming manipulators.

Look, I don't doubt that there are some dads and stepmoms who do weigh the cost of child support against custody. But there are moms who do it, too. For example, the BioMom in my situation. When DH and his ex divorced, he could not have been the custodial parent - the boys were young and he traveled extensively for work. When the boys got a little older, and DH remarried, the younger son CHOSE to spend a lot of time at our house, pretty much half the month. DH did not go to court to ask for a reduction in CS, and, in fact, wasn't going to reduce child support payments when oldest son turned 18 and graduated from high school. DH was willing to pay the same amount. The only reason he ended up not having to was because BioMom remarried, moved away and left the boys with us. Which I think she was happy to do because she didn't have to pay us CS, and she was still getting her maintenance check from DH. kkny - you didn't answer my question. Do you think BioMoms ever want custody just for the CS?

I know other posters have asked TOS and kkny why they are on this board. They are not stepmoms, they don't seem to have very good relationships with their exes or SM/GF, and they're not asking for advice or support. They mostly bait, bash and slam the stepmoms who are here trying to make things better for their own blended famliies. Does it give you some sort of perverse pleasure?

In my situation, the girls are with their mom 4 days a week and with us 3 days per week. During the school year, they eat breakfast and lunch at school because their BM is defrauding the government and has them on free/reduced lunch. So, she feeds them a grand total of 4 meals per week (dinner). We have them on the weekend and Friday evening so we feed them 7 meals a day plus snacks. Guess what? Noone helps us pay for food, clothes, or "extras", as you call them. When they stay at our house 3 nights a week, noone pays us for their "fair share" of rent, utilities, water, cable, etc. That whole notion cracks me up...since when are children responsible for paying a share of that? Here is my thing....my DH has been perfectly fine with having his daughters full time since the day of his divorce, but his EX kicked him out and moved a new guy in the next day. But, because her new DH is a bum and can't keep her in the lifestyle she is accustomed, my DH is expected to do it. In my opinion, if BM kicks out the DH and because of HER choice, the children are not maintained in the appropriate lifestyle, they should be allowed to go live with the father who can maintain their lifestyle. Why is it my DH's responsibility to support her and her new husband? I feel differently about it in cases where the man leaves for whatever reason, but if BM kicks out BF, then too bad for her. Again, my SK's have a home here(bigger than the one they have with her..because I chose to complete college and contribute to our income), so it is not a question of keeping them in their lifestyle. THey can live here at any time. It is about keeping BM in HER lifestyle, and I am sorry but there is no equity in that.

The fact of the matter is the courts are trying to figure out a way to make blanket laws to apply to every divorce case. The courts have not figured out how to apply circumstances equitably, and I don't know that they ever will. Some BM's deserve more CS because they were abandoned, and DH doesn't see the child or help financially at all. But, other BM's don't deserve as much because of their own actions, the fact DH has the children a good deal of the time, or additional funds DH provides for the children. There has to be a better answer, but I stay convinced that alot of reasons BF become enstranged from their children is their utter frustration in dealing with unfair court systems, and a child support system that unfairly penalizes many fathers.

No tamar, I said many, not all, Dads want custody to cut down on Cs. And dads, who typically have more money, may have nicer homes, with pools etc. I am not saying all. Just many. And if dad remarries and mom does not, his household will likely have more money.

"I know other posters have asked TOS and kkny why they are on this board. They are not stepmoms, they don't seem to have very good relationships with their exes or SM/GF, and they're not asking for advice or support. They mostly bait, bash and slam the stepmoms who are here trying to make things better for their own blended famliies. Does it give you some sort of perverse pleasure?"

AMEN TO THAT! Thank you, tamar, for very eloquently stating exactly what I was thinking. I can't speak for everyone else, but I'm here for ideas, support, and advice. If I wanted to hear 'NOT YOUR CHILD' I'd go somewhere else.

TOS and kkny, you don't actually GET what people are asking about. You take the one piece of a pie that irks you or gets under your skin and twist it into a melicious or negative intent. I'd like to take a big bucket of graciousness and thoughfulness and dump it right on top of the both of you. Not every stepmom or soon to be stepmom is out to get the BM.

TOS-in regards to your question about how long BF has been divorced and your comment about it being too soon for him to be dating, let alone talking marriage...maybe you should scroll back up to the top and read my original post. It doesn't ask if it's too soon for BF to date or if we should be talking marriage. And in my opinion our relationship (so long as it's stable and loving, and rest assured that it is) doesn't have anything to do with what I asked in my post.

The length of your relationship has a lot to do with how well you know his daughter.

I dont think every SM is "out to get" the mom. I do think some would rather mom just didnt exist. I think some are oblivious to mom's relationship with child, moms right to CS, etc. In your case, the mom does have a relationship.

So how did mediation go?

TOS-I didn't ask about my relationship with his daughter.

KKNY-as BF says, a lot of dad's wish the biomom didn't exist. Not so much me. Just as many dad's are jaded in divorce as mom's. And we'll talk about mom's right to CS when she ACCURATELY discloses her income and BF's to the court.

Mediation rocked. BF is sick of biomom calling the shots and flat out quit putting up with her bull****. This one may actually swing in favor of the dad for once. Thanks for asking.

Annebel...I am glad mediation went well for you. Your DH deserves to stand up for his rights. I am not sure what state you are in, but at least in Florida, when they are assessing Child Support, they do not take into account a new spouse/boyfriend's income even if they live together. Just and FYI. My income is not considered in DH's payments and my DH's income isn't figured in mine.