My thought is this..If you can afford and want to pay for her ticket to see you then do it...If you can't afford to then just don't. She will either figure out a way to get there or not come...
I am not sure how old she is but I do know if my college student wanted to come home for break and I could afford it I would pay for him/her to come home for a visit....I would however not be lending anymore money out or footing the bill for non essential items any more....If she wants those extra things even being a student she needs to earn it herself....
Do you all put any money towards her college tuition, books etc..?

Yeah, I agree that that's a pretty key distinction: paying for a ticket for her to visit parents is an example of an important expenditure vs. paying for car tickets she racks up on vacation, which she should try to find a way to pay herself. As for the trip to Europe, depending on the nature of it & what it's for (luxury vaycay vs. no-frills budget experience; pleasure trip vs. studies abroad), the loan may be more or less egregious. Loans, in general, I'd say are not soemthing to get upset about as long as you can afford to make a loan and of course as long as it is repaid.

Anyway, my hunch is that you are starting to lump any & all money spent on her in your mind as excessive because of a few things (i.e. the car tickets) that were relatively frivolous/irresponsible.

I'd suggest removing your own finances from the equation regarding SD and just let her Dad make the decisions as to what he can afford. If he can afford to give to her, he can; if he cannot, he cannot, end of story. But at least you won't have any of your own money invested in it to get worried or resentful about, lest you get 'obsessed with money' yourself ;)

There's a whole history of asking for money that I could put in here, but it would be the size of a book.
Things I haven't mentioned...college and books are paid for completely, as well as rent. Then there is the large check annually.
On vacation, she'll pout until we buy her something, when she's got a wallet full of money (she braggs about it).
She lied about the tickets, and seems to have no intention of paying back the loan or ticket expenses.
The thing of it is, if there is any way that we can do it-send the money-husb. will want to instead of having her chip in any. And she would never suggest it, it is clearly not an option according to her ultimatum. Her sister was operating under the assumption that she would take care of her own travel arrangements. Opposites! In order to satisfy the SD in question, though, we'd be eating out of cans, and we'd need to do the same for both. Like I mentioned, we don't have $ to spare, we are just getting by in a more expensive city.
The other thing is, the ultimatum was in such a way that if husb. wants to see daughter, he will have to pay her way. That's it, exactly. It seems so cold to me, and she's made no indication of wanting to see him or us since we've moved. She does not send him anything for his birthday or father's day, which pains him so much. She has not been in any way supportive of our need to move, and in fact at our going away party, arrived, and immediately curled up in the empty floor in the middle of the room and pretended to sleep. No one could approach her. When she decided she was going to leave, husb. asked her, are you going to say goodbye, she said why, you are the one that's leaving. I have no idea why she wanted to come, other than to show her disapproval and be hurtful.
Anyway, back to the money, I can not stand the thought of coming between SD and husb., so I do not tell him that what I think is that she should learn how to save her money, and chip in herself. Not that this would be hard at all with her getting more $ for breathing than I make in a year. How many college students eat at fancy resteraunts every week or so, or get their hair done at expensive salons, or have Starbucks daily, or wear nothing but expensive name brands (at Christmas we can only afford to get her one of the things on her list, if we put in $ together), or buy expensive toys to use them for a while and then toss them aside? She wants for nothing.
I just feel that if she would show any kind of care about her dad, asking anything about him when he calls, or show any kind of signs of missing him or wanting to see him at all, or even be willing to chip in some of the airfare, it would be a lot easier to deal with, is it just me? Sigh.

hmm..ok so she is way too spoiled....I would start by only paying for her essentials fo school.....leave out the rest of the other stuff she just has to have...then maybe your budget won't be so tight and you can afford to fly her to you for a visit once in a while...let her pout..she will either go get a job or find someone else to drain......I guess the biggest hurdle you will have is getting your Hubby to agree....sounds like Hubby gives in to SD a lot and that has probably made the situation worse.....

Your husband is an enable for every little dime he gives her. He needs to start weaning her off. Pay for some stuff and other to tellher to pay it.
Remove your finances fromthe equation and also tellyour husband the finances of your household that need to be paid first. THe rest of his money is his to decide and if he wants to spend it all onhis daughter then its his right.
I've done the same with my husband. Our finances are separate. I tell him the bills that need to be paid upfront for our house, daycare and bills tv, telephone internet etc..etc.c. whatever is left over in his account is his business to do whatever he wants.
My SD has begun to 'milk' my husband too but thank GOD my husband believes inthe golden line 'GET A JOB'.
My SD has asked for cell phone, mp3, person dvd player, credit card...you name it. ANswer from my DH: NO. NO . no..get a job, get a job, get a job. no and no until you get the idea. I will not pay for a cell phone or any other personal item of yours. That is totally up to you not me.
He gets the, oh you dont love me. ANswer: love is a hug , a kiss and shoulder and an ear to lean on...not a cold electronic device that costs money and continues to bill you for cash.

Thank you so much for your support, it feels really good to get this stuff out. Turning to husb. makes him feel like he has to play the middle man all the time, and he feels divided which I hate bc we are a family! But he likes to say yes to SD, and wants his kids to have an easier time than he did, which is completely understandable, but at the same time, I can't help but feel that kids these days feel that they need so much more than I ever did. Although I don't think that 20 is really a "kid" anymore. And certainly doesn't excuse the attitudes and fits that come the rare times she doesn't get her way. There is only 8 years diff. between my age and SD's. And it's frustrating to feel that SD doesn't ask for love by the usual caring ways, but instead tests husb.s love by seeing if she can get what she wants every time, which leads us to the $. I feel it's so wrong to treat $ as a test of love, or to use it as a dispensable tool, especially when it's so hard, for us at least, to come by these days!
Do you think that this has something to do with her testing her place in the family organization?

I think the only thing sd is testing is her place in her daddy's wallet! She has become accustomed to daddy paying for everything and takes it for granted. Your dh is at fault for her attitude. He needs to tell her he does not have the money for some things and just say no!

If he gives her yearly $ and pays her living expenses but then she can't afford to come see him that is crap! Maybe he could give her less yearly $ and less living expense $ so he can then pay for her visits? It is not unusual for college students to work part-time for their spending needs, especially when parents are footing the bill for college and an apartment!

To me it sounds as if he is parenting out of guilt though and it will be hard to break. If it is a habit you can not break without breaking your relationship then I say go with seperate finances. Split bills together and then each of you have some spending money to spend how you wish. Then he is free to use his spending money to give to his daughter and you don't resent it.

I *swear* I am not trying to be snarky or in any way judgmental about the age difference issue, but it's just going to be an issue. It's of course, not your 'fault' that you happen to be a certain age, but it's going to make it harder in this situation. And that's me saying that as someone who does not ---per se, that is, if real maturity ***is*** actually there--- judge age difference. Fact is, though, many people do. Especially the man's kids and especially his ex-wife, and they're not crazy or abnormal to do so. It's a touchy issue. And when you are closer in age to your SD than to her father, and especially less than a decade older than her, you are going to be more of a sister figure to her than anything like a parental figure... SD may even have a hard time truly envisioning you as "wife" to her Dad. If she's an only child, she now suddenly feels like she's got a 'sister'. A sister who's telling her what to do, cramping her style and even gets to tell Dad what to do.

I definitely think there is "testing" going on. SD is, as has been mentioned, testing to see where *she* fits in the new blended family unit, but she's in a way testing *you* too. In her mind it's probably like: "Okay, 'SM', so you're more like my sister in age but you want to play step-mom to me & try to enforce yer little discipline and budgetary restrictions n' crap... you sure you're ready to take this on?" She may also be testing her Dad, thus: "Okay Dad, so you now can officially afford a trophy wife... can you still afford your daughter?"

The age difference may also play in as regards a comparison between you and her mother. She may view her father as having been prey to a mid-life crisis and her mother as being shoved aside and into the "First Wives Club", which is a very unfortunate place to be compared to the place of a young 2nd wife fortunate enough to have been selected by a [presumably] financially secure man. So not only does your SD view it as you displacing her mother, but b/c of the age difference she may even view it as you displacign her as a daughter. These are EXTREMELY common reactions and thought processes in this type of situation, even if they are mostly negative and to some extent influenced by stereotypes from media, culture, etc. It doesn't change the fact that SD is liekly to have these thoughts, even if you are the primary breadwinner, or in every way unlike the 'trophy wife' stereotype.

And yes, SD's probably got a real attitude about all this. Among other things relevant to the blended family situation. Again, there's nothing you can do about this, and the mere fact of your age is not your fault. But I do think you need to be aware of certain things you can do to minimize the potential problems in the situation. Don't set yourself up as in financial control of SD, or her father, or in any way like a mother or sister-rival figure to her. This is why I said separate your own money from the equation and let your husband make his own decisions about what he gives his daughter with his own money (when your money isn't in the mix, he won't be able to spoil her as much, or so it sounds from your posts). It'll be better for everyone, all around.

My 2 SDs and the ex milked my DH for a couple of years after we got together. I said nothing at first, but it got to be too much to keep quiet. How many abortions can 2 girls have? I swear the ex contacted DH every other week and needed $400-500 for one. And every week for something just as expensive. We were both going to college and he had his hours cut down to 10 hours a week. He had nothing left. The event that opened his eyes was when he paid the ex a lot of money for braces for the youngest SD age 18. SD took the money to go out to CA to star in adult movies. Got pregnant, wanted money to go home. DH finally refused. Then she went to England with a new boyfriend and was held at the embassy because she didn't arrive with enough money. She wanted money sent. DH refused again. He told her she was an adult and got herself there, she needed to get herself home.

As about paying for speeding tickets, she should pay for her own, she got in trouble she should pay for it.

But i disagree about tickets to go see her parents. I believe parents should buy it for her (she is 20, not 30, not even 25 and isn't working full time due to being a college student).

I assume 20 year old is still a student and simply cannot afford buying her own tickets. DD-20 works a lot of hours besides being a full time student in demanding program, she only pays her own tickets if she makes short leisure trips, airplane or train that's on her, but when it comes to seeing me or her dad we buy her tickets. She cannot afford it. To come to my home for breaks is terribly expensive for her, i can barely afford it myself, she certainly cannot. It is cheaper to get to her dads but still he buys it for her. I think when they graduate college and work full time they should buy their own tickets (depends again on how far away they travel)but I would not demand it from 20-year-old college student. Be realistic.

It is inconceivable to me that I would not assist in a 20 year old coming to visit me.

I think that the fact that SD has zero expenses other than her cell phone, occasionally works and gets $$,$$$.00 a year in addition, is being overlooked here.

Pasht,

I am not overlooking it.

In my DDs circle, that is not unheard of for spending money.

Of course we can assist with the expenses to a limited degree for both, but SD has no concept of saving for something or seemingly the worth of money especially for those who do not have it handed to them. Even just $50, which she can spend on one dinner out, the suggestion of her chipping that in would leave us glowing. She does know how to use it as a tool-to measure love, though.
I just wish she would express some desire to come and see her dad...well, basically, at all. I know it hurts him. I don't think skipping one expensive dinner to throw in a bit is asking too much, and it would show her dad that she is willing to not be hard as nails and actually wants to see him too.
I'm sorry kkny, we're not as rich as your family, that kind of money doesn't come from us!

Pasht--

Making SD's 'desire to see her father' a test, with the criteria being the amount of dollars she is willing to put to it, is unfair and unrealistic for her age. Fact is, whether you like it or not, in our culture today the vast majority of kids under 21 who visit their parents on school breaks, whatever, do not pay for it. She amy not even have any idea that you expect her to coem up with the idea on her own to pay for it, and no idea that you are holding her up to this money yardstick--- a tool to measure love, you might say--- which if she measures up short she is deemed uncaring and spoiled, etc. It's especially unfair if the question has never even been explicitly put to her: "SD, can you chip in some for your airfare here?"

Pasht,

May I ask where the 5 figure check she receives every month comes from?

And I do think a 20 year old in college is a child.

well if all of her expenses are paid by parents and she does not have to contribute anything, then you are probably a very rich family and certainly can buy one more ticket. If your DH or you or whoever are OK wiht her getting such large sums of money and not working then you must not have any financial troubles, then why do you worry about some tickets?

If however you do have financial difficulties then you have to stop enabling SD by sending her that much money.

I do not get it! If he cannot afford buying her a ticket, how can he afford to fully support such a luxury life style of hers? i am confused.

I'm sorry if I've been confusing in my previous posts, the large sum of money comes not from his side of the family, but the other side, who are in fact, very wealthy. It's been frustrating for us to try and keep up with them, but it's not like we are trying to match dollar for dollar, there's no way we ever could. Instead we try to give SD things that might mean more in other ways, senimental gifts, things that take time and care and thought, things that we make note of throughout the year as ideas, not that we are giving SD the short end of the stick in the amt of money we spend either, we spend more on each SD than we do for our own holidays. But we try to make it mean more than a check.
School is paid for by aid, scholarship and her other side of the family, as is rent.
And believe me, when your idea of a treat is going out to the Olive Garden for their $5.95 lunch special and that is your idea of eating out for the month, then you will understand that we really don't have much $.

I don't think that being 20 years old necessarily makes you a child, or even an adolescent, it makes you an adult in many ways, though I realize not all. So, I think that childish ways and ultimatums have no place in an adult relationship, which is what I think 20 year olds should be practicing.

Love and money should never go hand in hand in the form of ultimatums. One should not be a test of the other. It's just wrong. Money is money. Love is LOVE. But SD has been testing her dad's love for years with money.
And if it's not about the money for SD, than why is it the only thing she had to say in response to visiting?

pasht---

Ask yourself this: if the family finances for your husband's 'side' and those of SD's mom's were ***exactly equal***, would you still expect SD/her mom to pay for tickets to go visit her Dad? Do you think that is their place, fundamentally, to do so, or just because you perceive them as wealthy?

And again, have you had any direct conversation between you & SD (or, more preferably, between you and SD & DH and maybe even BM) wherein you stated very clearly and explicitly that you expect SD to pay for her travel to see her father? Does her father even know you feel this way about the airfare? Does he agree with you?

Finally, about the love/money/ultimatum part: can't you see that YOU are in part measuring SD's love for her father based on whether or not (or how much) SD is willing to pay towards her airfare? Is her father measuring her love by the same standard or is it just you?

Pasht,

I am still confused re money. You say you and DH have only one income. Who is not working and why?

As to money SD is recieving -- it seems a little unsual to me that a student is recieving thousands ever year from grandparents AND is recieving aid. Also, I would take with a grain of salt what anyone knows about DH's Xs family money. What they might have had years ago, who knows about today?

About communicating with SD, I have tried for years, to have serious, open conversations about her feelings, toward me, I don't think it's my place to explore that area or nudge in there about her feelings towards her dad. She will start with enthusiasm, but then ignore me for months. This goes on for years, and I just figure she'll continue when she's ready, I won't push her or tell her that she is wrong, or even offer advice unless she asks. I tell her that I'll just listen and do my very best to understand her resentment toward me or some situation. But it's very hard when the communication is so strung out and sporadic. It's like starting over every time, and I have to admit, it hurts when she turns a cold shoulder after starting the communications so enthusiastically.

There is no X. They never married.
Good guess that it comes from the grandparents, but I never mentioned that it was an uncle with no children who gives the big checks.
How do I know how big, or how rich? They tell me so, frequently.
And we are both working. Just not at our most high-paying jobs.

Pasha,

You said earlier -- "I mention that we moved just this spring, and we are living on one income that isn't much" Now you say two incomes.

My mistake, uncle v. grandparents. Relying on what the girls tell you ??? Ok, your call.

Hello to all who have responded to this posting,
I've decided I don't want to stress over this any longer, and am just going to defer to husb.'s wishes. I want peace, if not closeness, or at least all parties to like each other. I guess it is a work in progress. I appreciate all of your points of views, and have enjoyed reading them and considering them, as I will continue to do. Thank you! We are all growing, constantly. I think it's when we stop that we get into trouble, eh? And I NEVER want to come between father and daughter. Just some things don't sit right. But thanks again to all of you, for helping me see things in all lights.

school is paid by scholarships, aid, other family, so is rent. so as I see her father does not contribute anything or much. so how on Earth can he refuse to buy her a ticket? what is his contribution to his daughter? does not even want to buy her a ticket? ouch. it is too funny when a post starts with one information but then in unrevels that there is a totally different story behind it....It is seems very unlikely that a grown man who does not contribute to his daughter's education cannot afford buying her airplane ticket. seems like a stretch. and he is not single, has a wife. somehow I am a single woman and buy my daughter tickets and don't complain. ha. i wonder if it is you who don't want him to help his daughter, not he...

The story also starts with OP and her DH having one income, then up to two. Add this to a young second wife, and most of SDs support coming from moms family, and I see a recipe for disgruntlement.

mom2meall said: If he gives her yearly $ and pays her living expenses but then she can't afford to come see him that is crap! Maybe he could give her less yearly $ and less living expense $ so he can then pay for her visits?

mom2emall it is not dad who pays for all that, but mom's family. dad does not pay but since mom's family supports SD through school he thinks (or SM does) that she has enough money for buying ticket. interesting logic.

Totally different story compare to: dad pays for everything and yet SD asks for more. Right?