Wow. I am so sorry. I don't have any great advice here. I feel very badly for your son and this grandchild to be tied to such an unfriendly and cold woman.

My ex-SIL was a little similar - never a thank you, never anything, really. She, though, is painfully introverted and while we initially were cordial, the relationship deteriorated after she and my brohter both had affairs. We stood beside her when he was wrong, never said a word when it was her fault. I gave them money and my brother said that was the problem - that she could never repay me. I said I didn't want repaid.

Anyway, we felt their boys were kept from us a lot, but when the third arrived, she was overwhelmed and actually had my brother bring them to me nightly throughout their childhood. She couldn't handle the boys, they loved me, she isn't a nurturer. From time to time, there were things said about me. I never retaliated - just took it for the boys' sake and I was fearful of not seeing them at all (and knew she'd never bathe and care for them adequately.)

What about her DD? Could you offer to take her a bit - maybe to a movie or something to give the mother a break? Could you befriend the child and maybe work your way in through that door? Is this little girl happy, healthy? Is she close to your SS?

It's a possibility that if mom is feeling exhausted, you could be the babysitters, but perhaps you need to find out what this woman's beef w/ you is? Is she just so unhappy in life and bitter? Is there any other family for her? Could you try to sit w/ her, woman to woman? If not, I'm afraid you're at her mercy.

Your poor SS must be scared stiff, and I envision him sneaking this baby over to see you from time to time.

Here in FL, there was a "Grandparents Rights" for awhile. You hate to take legal action as it will be tough on your SS and your already strained relationship w/ her.

Keep praying and being there for SS. If they split, he WILL have a decent shot at nice visitation. I don't wish that on anyone, but it isn't unrealistic.

Keep posting and hopefully someone else will have some better insight.

Dana

Dana,
Thanks for your reply. Some responses to your questions:

I have extended several offers to the daughter: to go pick strawberries together, to rollerbalde together etc... All have been declined by the mother. I'm not even sure if the daughter gets to hear the invitation. The excuse is that the daughter is too shy. I personally believe that the mother is afraid that her daughter will develop an attachment to someone who the mother can not control.

I have tried to make myself available and have extended offers of help from doing dishes, to laundry, to taking the baby for a walk, or overnight so they could have quality time while the daugter is at her maternal grandmother's. All offers of help have been flatly refused.

I did arrange to meet wth her a week after the baby was born. She came to our place for the first and only time. We worked through every issue she said she had: Fred had reported back to her that I burst into tears when he announced the pregnancy, she was afraid I would judge her for her situation (single mother w/ 10 year old daughter -smokes, child support -dresses and behaves badly, etc..)

It turns out the the entire meeting was a sham because the very next time she had me on the phone she pulled another fast one, and then hid. I can not call there as Fred says she is sleeping or in the shower.

I've been reading a lot about Grandparent's rights. They don't look very good in our state as you have to prove that a relationship with the child has been established. A declaration of love and desire to grandparent is not enough.

They are not married and she has full say over the child, right down to putting him up for adoption if she chose. We are worried but are trying to create here as the warmest and most loving place possible. I can only hope that when she throws him out for keeps, that Fred understands that the door is always open.

Perhaps her real issue with me is that I am not much older than she is as I am a lot younger than my husband and his ex-wife (who she sees all the time) Perhaps there is jealousy there somewhere. Perhaps she is trying to prove herself as the alpha-female. I am not interested in competing. I only want to be a good wife to my husband and a good grandmother to his grandson.

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Your situation doesn't sound very wonderful either.
It is a blessing that you are able to be a warm and loving shelter for your nephews. No one will ever be able to say that you didn't help or that your witheld your love. Your family must be so grateful for and proud of your dedication.
Are you still caring for them or have things settles down?

Thank you for your response. Take care.

Since it seems she is pretty self centered, you are going to have to appeal to that. Maybe convince your son to ask his wife on a date night (even if you have to slip him some cash for a movie) and then offer to babysit. Most women crave a night out, so perhaps that might buy you one night.

Assuming that your stepson wants you & his dad in the baby's life, the 3 of you need to consult an attorney, pronto.

Your son does have rights as a father;

he's entitled to make decisions in his son's life, & he has the right to determine that the baby has a relationship with his grandparents.

don't know how it is in your state, but in Texas, a mother cannot put a child up for adoption without the father's consent.

Like you, I'm much younger than my DH and his ex was even at least older than he was, so she's ~ 20 yrs. my sr.

My heart broke when my oldest was 6 mos. old. My former SIL took my brother back to court to rearrange visitation which had been nightly for 'him', but everyone knew it was for me to care for them, feed them, do homework, etc. Anyway, my brother doesn't face reality well and decided to run away rather than fight for us. I was devastated and hadn't a legal leg to stand on.

Luckily, visitation was cut down, but I still had them a bit. It was tough to not trash their mother to them. I didn't, naturally, but I was furious. If she was willing/able to care for them adequately, then that would have been another story. She isn't a clean person w/ herself or w/ them. Personal hygiene lacks. Funny since my brother is like Lady MacBeth w/ the handwashing and constant showers while she showered twice a week. It's weird. She never smelled badly or anything, but her hair would often appear oily, etc. Everyone said that the boys would remember the formative years and not forget all I taught them, but my oldest w/ the autism seems to have forgotten about a toothbrush (and I'm a dentist!)

As they got a little older, they began to disregard the visitation and did/do as they pleased. She doesn't like to argue and so far, they've only had a few stumbles in the road. She and I are cordial these days if together, which is rare. I treat her father in my office, and he, while we've had our differences, does appreciate my time, money and effort towards the boys.

They are w/in walking distance to my mom's house, so they're there quite a bit. I am often w/ them there, but they're now 16, 17, 19 and doing the teen things w/ friends more than their aunt, lol. The youngest is with me the most and I always have him at some point here on weekends - sometimes w/ friends, etc. The middle one is fused at the hip w/ a girl who lives right by my parent's home. The oldest is my sweet angel - somewhat introverted w/ the autism, but loving far more than we expected. I stepped in so many years ago because he was nearly five, labeled as 'severely autistic', not potty trained and my brother and she were having trouble. She wanted to institutionalize the boy and I hit the roof, took him under my wing and wow, a little love went a long way. He was reading right on schedule and was potty trained w/in weeks and completely opened up. Her maternal instincts told her to put him in a diaper on a pillow in front of the C&W music channel and let him be. He had zero stimulation, but responded beautifully.

I actually ended my prior engagement to a man my age, single, no kids, because he couldn't accept my DNephews and wanted to take me away from my family. Really, the chemistry was lacking on my part, too, so it wouldn't have worked. My DH was wonderful to my DNephews and it was a major turning point in our friendship towards something more. His kids had been poisoned against him by their mother, so he was quite alone feeling, even on visitation weekends w/ his kids. It didn't sit well w/ me after our wedding when his kids began major manipulation of him - wanted cars at sixteen when they really hadn't given him the time of day prior. But, it all seems to be working out - the long and hard way, but at least we're all getting along.

For you, I think you've done the right things. I'm guessing your DH's ex has poisoned this girl against you. You've done what you can and my feeling is that Fred won't be w/her forever. I don't think she can really hold all the cards, and surely couldn't adopt out the child w/o his consent. He needs to be strong.

Good for you about not caring to compete. There's no need, really. She's missing out on a great thing - caring, loving people ACROSS THE STREET! It's most people's dream.

I have to agree w/ Sylvia on seeing an attorney. I'm sure Fred is terrified to rock the boat, so maybe it could be done quietly? Is Fred at all confident that they are together for the long haul? Is he hopeful that you all can have a normal relationship at some point? I'm sure he walks on eggshells. That isn't right.

I'm so sorry, but see an atty for some advice on 'what ifs' for your own peace of mind. I just don't understand why this journey has to be so tough at times.

Oh, did you cry about the pg'cy as Fred said? Were you worried about his future? Happy? Afraid? I'm sure it's natural. When I found out I was pg w/ my third and would have him at forty, I burst into tears and cursed my DH, lol. Of course it passed. It wasn't planned, but many of the best things in life aren't. Surely she could understand that if she chose to open up her mind.

Dana

Sorry to bring this up, but are you certain about paternity?

Dear all,
I did bring up the suggestion of babysitting so they could have time together. As expected, it was declined. I didn't actually think of paying for the date. Some time with our grandchild is well worth the price of some movie tickets. Great idea.

Fred doesn't seem to be fully aware of her hold on him. He has to wash his own laundry, pay the full rent etc... while being on full parent duty every moment he's not at work.
He seems to think that the better father he can be that things will improve and be cured.
We've purchased a book called:

Grandparent's Rights: Your Legal Guide to Protecting Your Relationship with Your Grandchildren by Traci Truly Sourcebooks Inc 2006

My husband feels that things are so precarious with Tracey's strong hold over Fred that he is terrified to broach the subject. In the meantime we have be keeping a written log of contacts and visits just in case.

The bursting into tears was comletely involuntary. I would take it back if I could. (Fred had reported back to her that I had cried. She uses this as a reason to be upset with me, saying that I overreacted, and that that was really immature.) Fred had been thrown out for the umpteenth time and had actually spent that week with us. We thought he was finally free of her. When he announced the news I saw his life before me -tied to her forever, constantly fearfully of upsetting her, manipulated, his own child used for leverage and power.

Am I really sure that Fred is the father? No. Only she can know that. When he was here with us we both advised him to continue making his plans to be on his own and to get a DNA test, while still walking away. He protested money and we said we would pay. He wouldn't get the test, though his name is on the birth certificate.

It is sad times here in our house. We have so much love to give.

Technical Questins for Dana:
I'm brand-new to this whole online thing.
DH = dear husband?
Dnephews =?

Thank you for your responses.

I can not overemphasize the need to get DNA test now. The longer he waits, the more the courts will use the principal of estoppel and that as time goes on, to the extent that BM and child relied on the money, instead of looking for real father, he will be lock in. It is relatively simple. Next time he has child, get sample.

You are in for a lifetime of hurt -- make certain now.

DH = Dear Husband
Dnephews = Dear Nephews
SS - Step Son
SD - Step Daughter
DD - Dear Daughter
DS - Dear Son

I have been doing the online thing for a few years, as it is my "generation" (25) but they threw me for a loop too! LOL

Notrelated - I don't know what state you live in, but hear in Florida Tracy can not give the baby up for adoption without the consent of the father. And being that he is on the birth certificate that makes it impossible. And even if she told the adoption agency that she didn't know who the father was, there are legal things that can be son on your SS part if that was to ever come up. Honestly I think she is just using that as a bargaining chip with him, something some women are known to do. My thoughts are with you.

Yes, Angel had all the abbreviations I use, except sometimes the "D" before DH isn't signifying 'dear.' I'm sure we can all relate to that...

KK painted a dark picture, but I'm afraid it could be the harsh reality. Most 'normal' people can't imagine excluding loving, nurturing people from their child's life. Sadly, some immature and simple minded people prefer to hurt the child if it means hurting the adults involved.

I agree w/ the DNA test. Odds are it is his as they appeared to be together during the time in question. Fred never mentioned any suspicions of her cheating on him I take?

I honestly don't think she's contemplating putting the baby up for adoption at this stage. I'd think that would have been done by now.

Finally, don't beat yourself up over the tears you shed. Your reasons are perfectly normal and I'm sure very few women in your position would have jumped for joy for the all the reasons given - his age, being tied to her for life, the rollercoaster of emotions she has him on, etc. It's water under the bridge and I as said when learning my third was on the way, I was inconsolable. Every night, now, however, and from about 2 hours after my initial tantrum, lol (laugh out loud), I've looked at my little one and thanked heaven for the unasked for blessing that he is. That being said, I will talk til I'm blue in the face to my boys so that no unasked for blessings come their way prematurely! Heck, I was 39, a successful dentist, etc. Take twenty years off of my age and I'd have never had that degree that has given me independence, most likely, and my parents would have burst into tears, too.

Dana

LOL DANA!!! We all have referenced our DH as the DH you are speaking of!!

I agree with the DNA test! That is not only protecting your SS but the mother and the baby as well! It will undoubtedly anger the BM (biological mother) but she will get over it. Asking for a DNA test, at least from someone who was faithful is kinda a kick in the face. But as an adult and because they aren't married it should be done. Heck I think that anytime a child is born between two people who aren't married, there should always be a DNA test. It locks both mother and father in the deal, so there is no excuses or doubts. But hey what do I know?

My three year old's father asked for a DNA test when he was 8 months old, and refused to pay CS (Child Support) until he knew for a fact it was his. This after being in a relationship with him, and breaking up before I knew I was pregnant. When asked for the DNA test I was angry, but got over it as he had a right. I had to agree with his reasoning, whatever it might have been.

You can check DNA by doing a cheek swab. There are home
DNA tests that are accurate that can be ordered on the
internet. You have to do a cheek swab on the father and the child.

Wow! I am learning so much here from all of you. Thank you for all of your information.

I had never heard of a home DNA test kit and I "googled" it quickly. There are thousands of sites.

I'll talk to my husband and see what he says.

Southernsummer - wow that was a GREAT idea! I would have never thought about that. Kudos to you, if it comes out that she is his daughter the mother will never know and everyone has piece of mind. If she isn't then you have a leg to stand on.

Shucks, y'all.