I asked her counselor about amount of time is considered excessive she never responded ... guess she likes talking on the phone too :) ... personally I hate talking on the phone... So 20 minutes on the phone is an excessive amount for me ... guess 3 or 4 hours is fine for people who like to talk on the phone.

I am making light of the situation now because she isn't here. The phone hasn't rang since 9PM last night and before that it hadn't rang since noon time... see how much I need a phone if it wasn't for the kids we probably wouldn't even have a house phone.

In my fantasy world I could say to SD.....

Since mommy hasn't paid her child support daddy couldn't afford the phone bill anymore so it got disconnected ... so until mommy starts paying her child support again we will not have a phone.

:)

" "legally" I cannot take the phone away mom is to have unlimited access via telephone with her children .... its in a court order."

Okay, but does it SPECIFICALLY state in the court order that your DH is to provide the telephone for communication? I would disconnect the home phone, and then tell BM that SHE can provide a cell phone for daughter to speak with her on as much as she pleases and you won't interrupt that access.

Make her foot the bill for her daughters nonsense...after a few months of a huge cell bill I bet it would stop..or more likely if she isn't paying support she won't pay for her daughter to have a cell either.

TOS,
I would like an apology from you for twisting my words on this site.
I stated my brother got a beating from my father and he deserved it , i never gave advice for this girl to have a beating.
I said :
"Pills are not the answer, a swift kick inthe butt should do with her. My father litterly beat my brother one time and he deserved every licking! It hurt my father to do it but heck my brother kept a straight line after that."
Descipline is what this girl needs. The expression swift kick in the butt does not entail beating her! But the example i gave of my brother being beaten was true.He got a licking. It would not be my intention to 'beat' a child especially a sick one but my brother hung out with a person that day who had a file as thick as a foot with the law and my father had good intentions. And back of course in the 70's it was an acceptable course of actions.
Times have changed.
So please do not twist my words TOS. I did not say to beat this child. Though i do agree with another poster here that she does deserve spanking. I truly believe that this child is being enabled by mother and her bad behaviour is encouraged by her mother. What she needs is strict guide lines and punishment for her behaviour.
I still think in the end that she should live with her mother. I do not believe in havinga child forced to live with someone they do not want.

Poor Psuedo....you are the one who needs to be on stress medication and seeing a Doctor with all this crap you have to go through.

I absolutely refused to give the girls mom my NEW cell number (we don't have a land line) because she, not the girls abused it by calling my phone fifty times a day and leaving stupid messages and crazy texts on it at 2 in the morning. There is nothing about phones in any of the court papers. I bet once he gets full custody she's going to want a number. She's flipping the bill for it because we won't pay for a phone that she is just going to use to harrass us which is what he is going to tell the judge. I saved all the awful messages just for that purpose.

That's if the ever let her out of looney farm.....it may not be an issue. We'll see how long they hold her.

Good luck, Maria! I may be wrong, but I've never personally seen TOS apology for any kind of inappropriate statement.

I agree, if mom wants UNLIMITED access, then SHE should provide a EXCLUSIVE phone and pay for it. Like someone else said, mom is allowing her child 'terrorize' you and is on the phone (that YOU are paying for) cheering her on and directing her what to say. That's OUTRAGEOUS!

and if I were you, I would make her stay in her room with the door closed when she is talking to her mom. There is nothing that says she is allowed to follow you around and repeat the nasty things her mom is telling her to say to you. If you want to talk to your mom for four hours, stay in your room with the door closed and don't bother me until you are off the phone. I'd further tell her that I don't want to know what you talked about and if she says ANYTHING nasty to you, then 'go back to your room. you are not going to talk me like that. Stay in your room until you can talk to me like a person.' TREAT OTHERS HOW YOU WANT TO BE TREATED.

Pseudo,

You need to disengage from this kid and telling her dad what you did is the right thing to do. Put it back on her mom an dad. Mom wants to have unlimited access, tell her fine, she can get her a phone and talk away. Place your boundaries and not allow her to talk in front of you where she can say those things or have a 'tantrum'. When she has a tantrum, walk away, be disinterested, take away all the power by not reacting. focus your attention on the other kids and let her see that she is not going to take center stage from them because she is acting up.

If she really is suffering from anxiety, all of you need to be on the same page with medication. At your house, your husband and you have to agree on how to handle it. In my opinion, when an anxiety attack occurs, there should be a predictable course of handling it. For me, I take my meds and lay down. I do the same thing EVERY time I have an attack because if you deal with it differently every time, it only adds to the confusion. It calms me more to know that if I lay down and take my meds, the episode will pass. If I try to finish a task or take a walk (which sometimes relaxes me) or anything else to try to relax, the episode seems to last longer. I think consistency and predictability help, at least for me they do. Anxiety can be from stress, fears or worries and knowing what is going to happen each and every time is better than dealing with it each time differently. (at least in my experience).

Perhaps letting your step daughter know that when she has an anxiety attack, she is to lay down on her bed with soft music on or whatever she thinks is going to help her get through it. It makes it less chaotic if she knows how to deal with it beforehand. She should have input on the routine you develop at your house because she will have a little bit of power in her own treatment and she will know what to expect. How her mom handles it at her house is irrelevant. That's her mom's problem because I think she is creating a lot of these problems.

I graduated high school in the 70s and it was not acceptable in my house, my neighborhood or my school to physically punish a child. And yes, Organic, you did suggest that.

Doodle, I think not having a landline with children in the house is problematic. And I would think most judges would want communication with NCP.

Pseudo, I have no idea how you find the strength to manage what you are dealing with.

I don't think an apology from a nine year old would be what you are looking for. The apology really must come from the mom and also the dad. They are the people who are abusing you.

Stick to your guns. You are a good person.

Of course I am NOT going to apologize for saying that there is never a good reason to beat a child. I did not twist organic maria's words. There was no good reason for organic maria's father to beat her brother. There is NEVER a good reason to beat a child, not in 2008, nor in 1970, nor in 1870. I was actually referring to the beating of her brother when I said that there is never a good reason to beat a child, but there is also no good reason for to advocate a "swift kick in the butt," at action which absolutely would be abusive.

There's the figurative "swift kick in the butt" and the literal.
I'm a firm believer in the figurative version, and that's what I assumed was meant.

Has anyone talked to BioMom about this recently? Could be I'm overly influenced by my own dislike of phones, but if I were the recipient of 4 hours a day of phone-hysteria, I'd be good and sick of it. Are you sure BioMom isn't?

And on another tack -- Doesn't Dad have the legal right to know who the doctor is, what the diagnosis is, and what he's prescribed? Dad should also have the legal right to be fully informed of the Doc's opinions, and the right to grant permission for Pseudo to also have full and unrestricted access to that information. Surely the Doc has considered the possibility of divorce-induced manipulation and parent exploitation -- Does he buy it? Or does he think it's genuine medication-warranting anxiety?

Advocating spanking for a child who has been talking of suicide, anxiety, and depression would be the absolute worst course of action. Spanking children, at least older children, attempts to use shame, fear, and humiliation to stop a behaviour. ITs very hard to teach an older child the right way to behave, if the only reason they stopped the wrong way is out of fear.

The child doesnt like psuedo, for no reason in particular. Psuedo has tried with this child, and has gotten no where. Psuedo , after all this, doesnt like the child. I cant say that I can fault her for that; its tough to be around someone who not only openly dislikes you, but tries to cause a scene whenever possible.

The child doesnt want to be with psuedo, and psuedo doesnt want to be with the child. The girl needs to go live with her mother.

The problem is, the mother doesnt want the girl.

Now, put yourself in the shoes of a nine year old girl who really really wants to be with her mom, but her mom doesnt want her. Doesnt it make sense that she will do anything, act out in every possible way, trying to get mom to love her enough to take her home to live with her? Psuedo and the girls father are caught up in the angst of a little girl who is hurting, and unfortunately, there isnt a whole lot they can do to make it better.

Its really a sad situation. A huge dose of empathy might help diffuse some of the gut emotions, but the underlying problem, that the girl wants her mom, is much harder to fix.

on top of that, not only does mom not want her, but dad and psuedo dont either. THey told her to pack her bags. The girl feels as if she has no place anywhere. That is an absolutely dangerous way for a young girl on the cusp of puberty to feel.

I know its hard not to react in anger, but telling the girl she has to leave is feeding into the problems, not correcting them. CHildren should know that no matter what they do, mom and dad are there for them. Neither parent is doing the right thing for the girl.

Mom's causing the problem.
Mom says its ok for DD to call anytime day or night.
Mom loves the attention as much as SD.

Hubby keeps putting it on mom to fix.
Hubby cannot make mom see the problem is her not SD.
Hubby keeps telling mom not to call mom says but "my baby" needs me.

Don't know the dr. who prescribed meds... never saw them. Guess we could go to the pharmacy and get a copy of the script.

Yes Kathline we did tell her to pack her bags she doesn't want to be here so why should she have to "suffer" being here... we don't let her talk on the phone to her mom, we are mean and horrible people. Now she doesn't have to be on the phone for hours daily she can be with the only person in the world who understands her "anxiety" and the only one who can calm her down when she is having "anxiety" .... although I don't see any calming down but ok if thats the way she sees it have at it.

So personally the only thing I can do is put it on mom and dad to deal with their daughter... if he is not here he can't deal with her so she must go be with her mom ... hubby works I work mom does not ... she can be with her all day while hubby is at work ... she can come here on nights and weekends when he is home. I will not be responsible for her.

Thank you Sweeby! It was figurative. I did not suggest a beating even though my brother got one in the 70's. It was not meant for this girl. And my brother was much older than her. But of course KKNY and TOS would see little line like this and turn it ugly. Both have you have truely proven your characters. So there is no point in even acknowlodging the twists.
THis girl is nothing but a brat who is encouraged by mom and the mom has convinced the courts and doctor for a condition that really doesn't exist to excuse her behaviour to continually attack stepmom via the child. It is a clear case here! She has anger issues and tantrums! There is no anxiety. I have a friend who has anxiety and my husband suffers anxiety attacks from stress. His chest tightens, shortness of breath. This girl is screaming...great pair of lungs for anxiety eh??? Load of BS.
And yes, i think its a great idea for her mother to pay for that phone. The court said unlimited access by phone. It never stated who's and how the payment would occur.
Speak to your lawyer about this. If its a go, change the numbers and tell your husband to deal with mother about her antics on the phone. AND yes, tell SD to go into her room when speaking with mom.
Can video taping her assaults with mom on phone be admitted in court? Can you charge mom with verbal assault through a minor?
I know in canada if a minor is causing termoil so severe in a household verbal and abusive the parent has the right to put her in a home.
I know my neighbour did that to her 12 year old. She was out of control. The police came forth after a few reports to back her up.

Stay strong pseudo , you did the right thing in what you said to your husband and MIL. And i would go further with the phone like other posters have suggested.
1. She goes in her room andis to not go out or approach you when she is on the phone with her mom.
2. Change the home phone line, hubby has a cell phone, give her that one and tell biomom she foots the bill for the cell phone calls to her daughter.

what are they talking on the phone about? the longest phone conversation I ever had with DD was 30 minutes when she needed advice and she was grown by then. Other than that 10-15 is maxiumum. Same with her dad. she does not want more than that. face to face we talk but I have nothing to talk about on the phone that much because nothing new happens that often. what would we discuss?

so what are they talking about? i suggest you listen because it seems like weird. discuss school, movies, books? she is 9. when DD was 9, she talked like this: huh? OK. hhm.. Yeah. Good. Huh? no. She never liked to be on the phone at that age.

kathline what do you mean mom does not want the girl? she is 3-4 hours on the phone with her, she sounds very attached to her daughter. maybe i missed somehting

on topic of 70s. I grew up in the 70s and no it was not acceptable then either. if some families beat their children, it does not mean it is acceptable.

Well I am not discussing it anymore with hubby until Friday I am enjoying my "week off" ... from the kids ... the kids come home Friday night no clue when it was set up weeks ago she would drop them off at my work but I will not be available for drop offs and pick ups anymore ... sorry not doing mom any more "favors" she can stick to the court order and provide all transportation to and from "parenting time" for the children.

I will repeat my stance Friday morning with him ... if you are not here you must make other arrangements for your child whether its daycare, mom, your mom, someone else ... the boys can be left "home alone" if mom can leave them home alone for 10 hours at a time... I can leave them for a few myself ... so SD is the only one who needs to be attended to and it won't be me who does the attending.

But if she absolutely has to be here when he is not ... she will not be using the house phone she can either use the brothers cell phone ... or no phone at all.

KKNY

Untill Mom can act like a normal human being she isn't going to have a phone number where she can drive us nuts. Sorry. If she wasn't a nut case we'd play ball with her but she isn't going to throw our lives up in chaos (and the girls) just because she's mental. The judge never said anything about a landline. If it's important she knows she can get in touch with him at work...if it isn't she can't bug as with it. We really like it that way. It has been tons calmer in our household since we drew that line. This is a person who has to have SEVERE boundaries or she will make you as crazy as her.

If she loved the girls and wanted to see/talk to them she'd get her ass clean. No excuses. Then she'd have a number till then...no dice. We also don't allow her to step foot in our apartment and she has been banned from showing up at his job (she was showing up and causing scenes...drunk, crying). We got her under control by building a fence around her. If she wants to go down in flames she is going to do it with out dragging J, myself and the girls with her. If the judge told us we had to have a landline we'd just turn the ringer off. If the message sounded important we'd call her back...if not then we wouldn't. This is called a consequence. She has behaved like a psycho one to many times and now she has lost priveledges and YES...contact with your children is a priveledge that can be removed. If you are dangerous and unfit you don't see your kids. There are a TON of kids warded by the state to prove that statement. Why do you think she doesn't push the phone issue? Because she knows damn good and well shes unfit and would lose any little bit of custody she DOES have if the courts new how screwed up she was. (That's coming by the way, J has built a really good case and has Fathers For Equal Rights on his side. The case will start while she's still in rehab.)

Right now she is in a recovery center because she was told she could not have any contact with the girls untill she went through an in house treatment program. She'll be there at LEAST another month. If she still acts like she's strung out we'll have her shipped right back. We REFUSE to let this woman damage these children anymore than she already has. I don't care if she birthed them or not it doesn't giver her the right to F*** them up for life. Her actions have her on a short leash which is precisely where that dog needs to be. She is selfishly hurting her children.

Good for you. You tried to help this kid. You are getting ZERO support from the parents. Let them deal with her. It's not your problem. I don't think there's anything MENTALLY wrong with her. She just has learned how to push your buttons and get away clean. "I'm having an anxiety attack." Please. Whether she's truly sick or not let her PARENTS deal with her and save yourself the headache.

Finedreams,

Mom sent the child home halfway through the first week because she wanted to go to a tournament. Mom likes the attention of the girl calling, but she doesnt really want to take on the day to day raising of the girl.

Cawfee, I understand your position. Given the circumstances, I probably would avoid the girl too. I dont think there is much you can do to break through this with her.

One thing I will throw out here...the family psychologist that my kids and I went to after my divorce suggested that sometimes when parents break up, chlldren, particularly between the ages of 5-12, will act outrageously, destroying things, deliberately failing, deliberately being difficult in an attempt to get sent with the other parent. The reasoning that our psychologist suggested was behind this was interesting. It was his premise that the child acts that way, not because they truly hate where they are, but because they feel guilty for leaving the other parent all alone. They dont really want to be sent back there, its just their way of being horrible so that they dont feel disloyal to the other parent. They see themselves as bad people because the other parent is suffering, and so punishment solidifies that concept in their heads. The solution is to reassure them over and over, as often as it takes, that nothing they can do will make them get sent away, and that you love them very much. The bad behaviour, barring anything physically destructive, should be ignored and not responded to in any way. He suggested not responding when the child is being in your face and screaming. Basically, the concept of shunning when behaviour is totally unacceptable and off the wall, but thats it. NO lectures, no screaming back, no hitting. Just ignoring.

What brought this question up is that my youngest son, when he was nine, went through a brief phase where he would destroy things when he was angry, and get in your face. I brought it up at the next session, we followed the psychologist recommendation, and within three weeks, it stopped. My son, who is now 15, says that that shunning was the worst thing that ever happened to him, and forced him to calm down since no one was reacting to his rages. It was very effective for us , and it only took a few weeks to see major improvment. It was hard for all of us to keep our mouths shut for those three weeks though.

When he was not in a rage we treated him normally, after he would apologize for his behaviour. when he was raging, we ignored him - looked right through him.

I think sometimes we look at children, and expect them to reason and act as adults, and thats just not possible at 9 years old. 9 year olds have their own way of reasoning. It often doesnt make sense.

I completely AGREE with this:

"One thing I will throw out here...the family psychologist that my kids and I went to after my divorce suggested that sometimes when parents break up, chlldren, particularly between the ages of 5-12, ......."

But there are just so many HOURS in a day you can ignore behaviour.... and if only ONE person is ignoring the behaviour how much of an impression is it going to make on correcting the behaviour.

SD has said repeatedly she feels sorry for her mom because her mom is alone ... now mom has a bf she worries the bf is going to leave ... but SD is overly affectionate with the BF so he can see what a "sweet kid" she is so he won't leave mom. Does that make sense? Like when playing pool on Tuesday nights she takes SD and between rounds SD rubs BF's shoulders to relax him so he can win .. (mom has told me this, I told her that ... that was weird and he should be telling her to stop it must look "weird" to the other people) Because if he wins he wins money and he will give mom the money to pay her CS.

So my only reaction will be to disassociate myself from SD.

There is alot more going on than I post here because I am tired of being told I am wrong.... I overreact I am the problem not mom or dad or the SD its all me.

I only posted my situation because of the post about the 17 yr old who moved across the street. To let her know sometimes kids get what they want but not what they need.

SD wants to live with mom great but mom doesn't want her to live there ... reality check for child too bad its on mom to help her daughter not me .... mom has to be the one to tell her not to call for hours every day I cannot. Mom has to be the one to tell her daughter she doesn't want her tonight she has stuff to do I cannot.

But I get the brunt of the anger because I am here alone ... so I have made a choice not to be alone with child any longer ... hubby has also made a choice that if his DD wants to be with her mom so much he is going to bring her there and "make" mom be the bad guy and tell her daughter she doesn't want her there ... hubby told her you are welcome here anytime I am home but you will not abuse my wife so until you can be respectful of my wife you can only come when I am home.

So the kids came home Friday night... We all went to play bingo at the rec center ... Hubby was supposed to work I told him I was going to play bingo so he came to bingo so SD could go to I don't have a problem with that she can go but not with out you.

So we get home at 8:30 PM she starts bawling she misses her mom so she stayed on the phone with mom till almost 11 PM... but it wasn't with just mom it was mom's BF also. Hubby told her if she was going to be on the phone she had to be in her room ... Saturday morning she gets up gets on the phone with mom is on for various durations until about noontime ... hubby had to go out and get stuff so he took SD with him while he was gone my BIL called and asked if the boys could go hang with him and his kids for the day ... so off they went ... SD then began to harass hubby about going out with the uncle hubby called uncle and asked if SD could join them... uncle's response ... "No she is having anxiety attacks I am not going to responsible for her while she is having issues" So then SD wants to go to different cousins house that cousin is at her dad's ... so she can't go over there.... so they get home SD gets on the phone with mom complaining about uncle she talks to hubby "why is your brother doing that blah blah blah ... don't you love your kid she says to hubby. He says yes of course I do but I don't blame my brother for not taking her ... I wouldn't take somebody else's kid if they were having anxiety attacks either. So they get into a 20 minute discussion of how their DD needs structure and guidance not to be told yes every time she asks for something ...Hubby told mom coddling her behaviour is not helping daughter. Mom says but she feels like she is losing control DD needs to be able to control something well what do you think she should be able to control at 9 yrs old?? what do 9 yr olds control? Mom offered no suggestions but wants DD to feel free to speak her mind and do whatever she wants.... He says well keep giving in to her and she will never make any progress.

DD chimes in at this point saying you don't love me that's why you won't let do things that make me happy. Hubby says you know its easier to say yes to every question saying no takes lots of love.

Then she started on me you don't love me that's why you always say no ... Oh and screamed at me because I didn't let her call her mother!!!! I said that's fine SD if you think that but it takes more love to say no than to give you your way ... me and daddy could say yes to every question you ask and not have to listen to you whine about how mean and horrible we are.... so we should just let you do whatever you want because that's the only way you see love if giving into your every whim. She says good its about time.

I asked her do you want me to not love you ?? because not loving someone is easy it takes no effort love takes effort showing giving love is hard work but not loving someone is easy takes no effort.

She again gets on the phone with mom she was on the phone most of Saturday until about 6 PM hubby had to leave a few times to get parts for something he was working on ... she had to go with him .... we all watched a movie from 8 PM to about 10:30 PM then hubby says its bedtime ... off the boys go and she starts can I call my mom ... hubby after 20 minutes says you know what call her and say goodnight ... so she called and said goodnight.... now its 11:30 she is in our room bawling how she needs to talk to her mom she doesn't have a pill here and she feels like she "might" need a pill. So he gives her the phone to call mom. SD called mom a few times then starts screaming because mom is not answering the phone so she keeps calling (no clue how many times) Mom answers and Mom refuses to bring a pill she's busy can't bring it. Ok good thing she doesn't need it.

So Sunday morning I stay in my room till about 11:30 the kids were supposed to be leaving at Noon. I go down stairs and SD starts calling me names and hollering at me again ... I said wow you must be really sorry for how you treated me last time because you're doing it again ... now do you see why I didn't accept your apology!

So SD starts chanting Pseudo is poop... repeated a good ten times and some other lovely things. I ignored I walked outside I tended to my garden they will be gone in a half hour so I putz around the yard. Hubby says if you weren't going to your mom's you would be in your room... I said she should be in her room til her mother shows up but what do I know. Ten minutes later the 3 of them come outside Hubby told them to ask me about camping with GM I said well I know GM said the boys could go but SD had this weekend to show she could be good or she wasn't going ... so its just the boys going camping with GM ... I'm telling my mother, go ahead have her call GM and talk to her about it. She again is on the phone with mom ... mom gets on the phone with hubby .. he says your DD wants to talk to you all day long I do not ... if you have a question for my mother you know the number give her a call...

Ten minutes later the boys say bye daddy bye pseudo see you tomorrow. Hubby asks when are they coming back? I don't know I am sure she will call you 15 times tomorrow to talk it over with you.

Did I mention how much I hate the phone!!!!

Are you kidding me?!?!

I cannot believe anyone on this board thinks that behavior is acceptable whether the kid has anxiety or not, give me a break!

These are the kids I end up seeing at 16-18 for substance abuse because they are oh so good at manipulating and their parents are always so shocked their little babies ended up like this-Not me!

No way would I or did I tolerate this from my kid/Step kids. As much as we have had to deal with never would they scream at me/ or him (or God knows what DH would do).

Another episode like that & I would most definately call the police/ambulance to pick her up & take her to the nearest hospital for a psych eval. Yes she sounds angry but we all get angry and that is not normal or acceptable behavior, it is however very manipulating esp with BM on the other end of the phone goading her on...Ugh, I really feel terrible for you having to deal with that.

I would not be able to leave fast enough in your situation, sorry. You are in a lose-lose situation here. And why did your DH sneak out & leave her with you this am? Why didn't he drop her at BM's or GM's on the way to whereever he was going? I thought you told him you weren't watching her anymore? Good grief, call Grandma and tell her to come get her before all hell breaks loose again, I can't believe YOU don't have a anxiety disorder after dealing with her shenanigans..

((Hugs to YOU)) I agree you're a saint, but quickly turning into a Martyr. Put your foot down so you can enjoy life a little..

CL

pseudo this is crazy! calling you names, She gets off on it! You get out of your room and she calls you names???!!
I would of turned around and told her to go to her room.
This is too much. Now i know why you are frustrated. This back and forth BS.
Personally, i think this child is a brat. But she is really acting out cause she knows her mother doesn't want her to live with her. ITs a cry for help but you do not need the abuse. I honestly think if you cannot take it anymore the next step is she should live with another relative. THe biomom is not helping and i agree with one thing. let her call her mother as many times as she wants whatever time.....it worked eh? Her mother stopped answering the phone. unfortunately you got the brunt reaction for biomoms phone ignoring.
Is there any way for the courts to force this mother to take her daughter. At least 50% of the time. She wants her mother and all this behaviour revolves around her. This mother needs to stand up and take her daughter!
And yes, send her to her room when she behaves again. Keep doing again and again and again. I'm surprised you are not screaming in her face what she is doing.
WIth my personality i would do exactly what she is doing to me.I'ld scream in her face one time and then i would ship her out.
Honestly, you are a saint for putting up with this girl.

Pseudo, How far away does mom live? Would it be possible for dad to take her back to mom when she starts bawling that she misses mom? She didn't miss mom while she was at Bingo and now that she's done having fun and it's time to do something else, THEN she misses her mom?? BS. Why didn't mom send the pills with her? Did DH ask for them?

I know it's a pain, but could you have said... you miss mom, I guess I should take you to mom's. or when she started bawling over the pill, same thing. Obviously, mom only answers her phone when she wants... She demands that SD is allowed to have access to a phone at all times to call her but she is still in control because she only has to answer it if she wants. Meanwhile, you and DH are stuck dealing with SD that might be getting worked up over not being able to get through (like it's YOUR fault).

Normally, I wouldn't suggest taking the child back but the mom is the one creating this problem and she is sitting back at home, picking and choosing when she is willing to deal with this child when she WANTS. It's summer and there is no school and if mom wants to coddle her, I'd go drop her off with mom as soon as she begins this crap and instead of spending her whole weekend on the phone, she can spend it with mom. Maybe mom will 'get it' if she has to deal with it in her face, not on the phone. I think your husband is saying all the right things but it sucks when you are held hostage in your room because she's there. She was talking that way BECAUSE she knew she was going to mom's and didn't think there is a consequence to it. I think your husband should have called BM before SD had a chance to tell her, and tell her that SD is not going camping and why. Beat her to it, instead of being on the defensive when she calls him.

I'm also trying to disengage from my SD9. She has decided to ignore me on the weekends when she's here since she's been going to her mom during the week this summer. Yesterday, her dad made her breakfast (cold cereal) and then he was watching TV with her when i got up and made my son and me pancakes. When I came into the kitchen, she snuggled up to her dad and shot me a dirty look but I ignored it, made my coffee and pancakes. When she heard the stove come on, she stood up to look and saw me cooking and sat back down with her arms crossed. Then she started whining and whispering to her dad. He got up and went to get the phone, dialed it and told her 'go in your room to talk'. She was upset that she had to have cold cereal and we were having pancakes, so she asked to call her mom. When she came out of the room, she was even more upset because now I was sitting on the couch next to her dad. (I wasn't snuggled up or even close to him, I was at least a cushion away so she could have sat by him again). So, I got up and left. I spent the day alone while he took her bike riding and out to lunch and then they got home and watched a movie. She didn't say anything to me at all this weekend until her grandma showed up to get her... then she gave me a hug like there was no problem and left. (and when i say she didn't say anything to me, she would start out every sentence with 'dad...') The light at the end of the tunnel is that she only visits next weekend, then two weeks straight with her mom and one more weekend here in August. She comes back the second week of August for school.. then she may start having a better attitude. (okay, sorry for the rant but your post reminded me of those five little annoying words that she only utters when she isn't getting her way.. 'can I call my mom?')

"Mom told SD "the court order says I can call you anytime I want" .."

What exactly does the court order say? Does it say that SD can call mom anytime or that mom can call SD anytime, or both? What is the EXACT wording????? (sorry if you've already answered this elsewhere, but I don't recall seeing it)

Lol..you know ima that is exactly what my SD has been doing for years now. Can i call mom? yah...whatever.
She is also getting territorial about her dad with me as well. During her vacation she would snuggle up too and give me a dirty look which i would ignore. Its funny eh? I've always encouraged time alone with them and have always backed off and left them alone for times and other times its family time but every since she has started high school she turned into a manipulative snot. She was such a good girl in her early years....jealousy yes but that was normal. This kiniving behaviour in the last year is just plain disgusting. And her father sees it and tells her off..but you see i get the blame and then she tries to physically harm my child last week...lol...i told my husband and she was definitely over hearing this. The next time will be the last. I will not speak to you i will speak to her and then to the police and child services to have her evaluated. Needless to say she stay home this last weekend and was very nervous around me but friendly. i told my husband, the BS is starting but i will put my foot down before it gets my son in the hospital!
sorry..just had to vent when i read your post.
But yes pseudo..my husband read the posts...he cannot believe that your husband hasn't dropped off his daughter at mothers or at least relocated her to another relative.He's happy he stood up and told her to respect you but my husband said , your husband now needs to physically prove to her by removing her every time she blows and send her to the hospital. He said when she has an attack to send her to the hospital and call mom to be there and for her to explain why pills are not sent with her daughter.
The minute she opens her mouth and calls you names, the police should cometo remove her. enough is enough. Her mother must realize the seriousness of her daughters actions and that they will not be tolerated.
She is not sick. My husband said it, she wants her mother. Go to court and legally send her back to her mom and get her out of your house.

Maria is right that this girl needs to go back to her mom, since thats where she wants to be.

Except, mom doesnt want her, so that option isnt open.

I just cant help the mental picture I get when I think of someone calling the police to remove a nine year old girl. The reason? She called her step mother a poop

Its making me smile.

Catlettuce wrote:

"Another episode like that & I would most definately call the police/ambulance to pick her up & take her to the nearest hospital for a psych eval. "

Agreed

"And why did your DH sneak out & leave her with you this am?"

You're kidding, right? My question is why DH came back...

"I agree you're a saint, but quickly turning into a Martyr."

Another wise observation.... (sorry)

To those who say SD should go back to Mom's -- I can see why Pseudo would want to unload her, and why BioMom should have to take her, given how she's feeding the hysteria -- but you'all can't really believe this would be in SD's best interests. Clearly, BioMom's got a few screws loose and is making SD's problems worse, not better.

I'd be very inclined to go back to court to:

1) get the 'How much phone contact' thing spelled out;
2) get the psych diagnostics and medication issues out on the table with agreed-upon terms; and
3) get Mommy Dearest's poor parenting documented on the record.

And if you don't want to instigate court action yourself, simply put down your foot about how much phone time is allowed, then wait for Mom to file. (That is, if she's not relieved.)

Just to be clear, I was NOT suggesting they give mom custody. I was suggesting that they remove the power from SD by cutting their weekend short. SD is using the phone to gain power to control everybody and cause chaos in that house. I am sure that all the kids are being affected by her individual behavior, not just pseudo. Mom doesn't want her but mom doesn't want to deal with her, but mom continues to empower her to run this game on everyone at pseudo's house. For mom, it seems like win-win. What's the point of SD spending ALL day talking on the phone to mom and when mom no longer wants to deal with it or she decides she wants to get some sleep or do something else, she gets to ignore her phone... meanwhile, pseudo and dad have to deal with the kid that mom has allowed to get all worked up while mom goes to sleep or watches a movie or whatever. Mom is feeding the hysteria because she knows they aren't going to give her custody and she wants to make them miserable so she enables the kid to harass them.

My SD's mom does the same thing. She wants custody to avoid paying support but she really doesn't want the responsibility of her daughter. But she also doesn't want her daughter to know that so she tells her daughter that we won't let her move over there. Well, we called her bluff and flat out told SD that if her mom thinks she is better off living over there, then her mom needs to ask the Judge to let her. We told SD that we won't disagree if the Judge thinks it's a good idea, but dad thinks she's better off here and if mom thinks she's better off there, and if they can't agree, then the Judge has to decide, not her.

Sometimes, you have to take the wind out of their sail and if dad, without getting upset or reacting at all, but very matter of fact, put SD in the car as soon as one of these 'I miss my mom' meltdowns, and drove her back to mom's and told the mom and his daughter that he is sorry she doesn't want to be with me this weekend, maybe next weekend you will feel different. This little girl is doing these things because she is getting something from it. Mom is enabling it because SHE is getting something from it. Dad & pseudo should be enjoying the time with the kids that want to be there and I agree with sweeby, if she was only with mom for the one week and taking her back to mom is not an option, then dad needs to lay down the law on phone use. Most courts will not care if mom complains if there is reasonable contact. Once or even twice a day is reasonable. I've heard the court say three 15 minute calls a week is reasonable. She is 9 and she cannot be allowed to control your household like this. When mom calls to complain to dad about her DD not being able to call her, he can tell mom that mom can call DD as often as mom wants. DD can call mom once a day and stays in her room to talk. I'd tell mom, if you want to call her five or six times a day, go ahead. I'll bet mom won't want to. (she might in the beginning but it gets old, especially when you don't get a reaction or any resistance, which is probably what her payoff is.. conflict.)

wish i had advice for you. just good thoughts. offering them, for what they're worth.

Sorry for the delay in answers broke my index finger yesterday hard to type this please excuse any spelling mistakes.

I would have to find the decree but it says something about reasonable contact by phone .... hubby said at one point do I really want to put her in contempt for phne calls?? no but you have a contempt case child support and phone calls. He might just have to file for a modification himself to get it addressed.

Mom lives about 20 minutes away but she wasn't home she was out playing pool both friday and saturday nights she had had the kids all week. He has only brought here there one time ... but we have picked her up several times from mom's because of her behavior... I'll have to remind mom next time SD flips out.

But anyway mom went to the court house to file for custody of SD according to my SS10 because "what you told SD about cape cod she doesn't want to live here anymore" what do you mean ??? Mommy took us all to court today and they asked us where do we want to live. I dropped the issue I'll wait for them to talk rather than ask so they are not pressured.

I got home from work yesterday the boys where here. SD was not I asked where SD was and the above response is what I got.

The cape cod thing is camping with GM.

Hubby did not leave the yard without taking SD with him. He was in and out most of the day Saturday... When she was calling me poop he was outside I called in him when she started then I went out ... they are 3 yrs old they can sit in the living room and entertain themselves with out an adult on top of them.

Well when she is screaming at me she says things like "you're the adult" and " you better listen to me" ... so I start acting like a kid chanting clapping covering my ears she flips why do you do that I said well you're pretending to be an adult trying to tell me what to do so I'll be the kid in this relationship and see how far it gets us .. well my counselor says you should be the adult ... I said well tell your couselor to call me and tell me herself.

The other night after the 11:30PM meltdown I said to hubby I should call the counselor and keep her on the phone for the same amount of time they are on the phone ... everytime SD calls her mom maybe she will see its excessive.

Mom is playing "hero" to SD while she was on the phone with mom the other day ... I said its a good thing she was working when SS12 was having problems because both you and SS12 would be together at mom's house. My mom always talked to us when she was working ... not for hours at a time she called on her breaks for 15 minutes max ... she never talked to SS12 for 4 hours in a row. She told him too bad deal with it ... and he is fine now but she is coddling your bad behavior so the two of you can talk on the phone day and night ... I hope her bill gets so high her phone gets shut off. (she calls mom's cell)

I do not believe she should go to mom's at all ... I think mom is more of the problem than SD is ... if mom wasn't enabling the child she would not pull half of the stuff she is pulling ... but hubby and I are at a point where if mom's wants to coddle SD she can deal with her 24/7 until her issues are resolved ... because .... "you and daddy don't understand me" She says things like "I am in pre-puberty" "I'm hormonal" "I have anxiety" ... hubby says ... so when pseudo is hormonal she can scream and holler at any one who doesn't give her her way?

Hubby is stuck ... he knows we could fix her if given a few days of limited contact with mom but mom would not hear it ...

(my opinion) mom is trying to drive the BF away but not make it her fault make it the kids fault does that make sense?

When she is at her mom's and the boys are here we have fun we joke we all have a good time ... when SD its a miserable home every one is waiting for SD to have a meltdown... and take it out on anyone who is near her.

As SD is screaming at everyone that she is having "anxiety" we have all said to her that't not anxiety thats anger.

So until they go to court again in Aug... we just have to deal ...I am sure nothing will be resolved in Aug...

The boys did tell mom last week, if SD stays at her house I could go to work full-time and not have to worry about SD she could just come here on weekends when dad is home. So mom told hubby he was just trying to get rid of his daughter he said no but I wouldn't have to worry about who is going to watch her while my wife goes back to work.

This seems like it took forever to type ... damn finger.

I was talking about it with hubby last night that he should have a few pills here with the bottle so he can see who the Dr is and dosage etc... I said every time I get a prescription I get two bottles and divide up the pills and send a months supply with the kids to her house. He agreed but didn't say he would do it .... I keep using IMA's word "confrontational" .. honey you need to confront her ... hubby I wish you were "confrontational" ... he says he is afraid he will explode on her and it still won't get him anywhere...

As "the SM" I can only avoid the kid and let her parents deal with her ... I enjoy my time with the boys and hubby is picking up on that doing extra with them when D is with her mom and the boys go back and tell SD we did this and we did that and she gets more angry and they tell her well you were at mom's or we are not being mean to them. We are in the rewarding good behavior mode bad behavior is not rewarded. The boys told mom they only want to go to her house every other weekend and she flipped out "she can't go that many days without seeing her boys" and they said you have SD here its not like you'll be alone.

The only thing wrong with this child is a lack of discipline, a positive role model in her birthmother, lack of firm parenting and being allowed to run wild. There is no one here to blame but the two people who created her. HER MOTHER AND FATHER!

As her Stepmother you should not have to tolerate this downright rude, disgusting and bratty behaviour from your husbands child and nor are you legally obliged to be responsible for babysitting her, supervising her ect. and in your position I would Not!

Being legally and or morally obliged to Care for, babysit, supervise and generally be responsible for a stepchild only comes in a small No. of forms.

1. Adoption giving you full parental rights and responsibilities
2. Custody. Rights and responsibilities designated through your husband to you as a combined team.
3. To a lesser extent as part Custodial or during Visitation where husband and wife can function as a team and both discipline.

Sadly if your husband isn't on board and BB is ignorant you have no hope but to detatch and refuse to look after her. How long before she starts with the false abuse allegations and the like?

And TOS: Having read some of your other posts have you thought about purchasing a new Broom dear? If your current one is breaking down that much going by the number of Hissys you throw maybe a new one is in order.

This is ridiculous Psuedo. I'm so sorry you have to go through this. Does dad have ANY trouble with the way she talks to you? Why doesn't he at least slam her butt in her room when she behaves like that so at least you arn't being followed around the house being taunted.

Kathline, you snicker at the idea of a 9 year old being hauled off by cops but I can say that if I were Psuedo I would probably snap and smack the demon out of this child. Then it would be MY ASS getting hauled off by the cops. No one and I mean NO ONE could tolerate being harrassed in their own homes on a daily basis like this without eventually losing it.

This child is a brat. Out and out a brat and I don't care who gets pissed but if it were my child she'd be getting her butt wore out. My father spanked me. I grew up fine and I love my daddy more than anyone on the planet. I NEVER spoke to any adults like this child does. My father would of spanked my tail, not out of cruelty but out of love. Better he do it now than the cops do it for him during my adult life.

Psuedo's step daughter is going to wind up either A.) Getting her ass kicked by another child because she can't shut up and act right. B.) Getting expelled because teachers aren't going to tolerate this kindof behavior or C.) Get arrested because she has NO respect for authority figures or the rules of human decency.

Don't shoot me the "she's only a kid" line either because my girls are 4 and they know that they had better not EVER let us hear them talk to an adult with an ounce of rudeness no less have the audacity to call one names blatantly to their face. Their father would have a coronary and yes....they'd get spanked. We refer to it as "hitting the reset button". Guess what, our girls are respectful and mind. We get compiments all the time on how well mannered and behaved they are. Coincidence? I think not.

Ditto doodle...ditto

"Psuedo's step daughter is going to wind up either A.) Getting her ass kicked by another child because she can't shut up and act right. B.) Getting expelled because teachers aren't going to tolerate this kindof behavior or C.) Get arrested because she has NO respect for authority figures or the rules of human decency."

I agree. The girl is headed for real trouble. I also agree that cawfee shouldnt have to put up with this, and that she has done pretty well all she can to try to fix it. ITs for her own sanity that she disengage at this point.

What I find amusing is the image of someone calling the police...Hello, officer. I need you to come and take this nine year old away. What did she do? Oh, she called me a poop.

I can just imagine what response the police would have.

The frustration is very real, I am not denigrating that. The girl is diagnosed with some pretty severe problems, no one feels quite capable of dealing with them, and while I do not agree the girl is "a brat" ( since the psychiatric problems, ie suicide threats, anxiety attacks, extreme neediness go beyond the description of brat), she is acting in a fashion that makes it fairly impossible to live with her.

It truly is hurting the situation, that mom and dad are not on the same page regarding this . The girl is playing both parents off against the other, to try to "self medicate" so to speak. THe only hope I see for this situation ending up on a positive note is if somehow mom could be convinced to work WITH dad, instead of just letting herself be played. And if Dad can also do the same.

I think spanking is totally the wrong move however, but then people who believe in spanking are convinced it works, and people who do not believe in spanking are also convinced that their way works. The older a child gets, the less effective spanking is as a catalyst to change behaviour for the long term. ITs one thing to "spank" a four year old , totally something else to spank a 12 year old. People who spank older children do it out of frustration and anger, because they cant think of anything else to try. Its also fairly easy to have well behaved children, pre adolescence. The real challenge, the test of whether or not you did things right, doesnt start until years later when the kids hit their teens. At that point, if you havent helped the children to choose to do the right behaviour as a matter of habit and choice, if you have overly relied on punishment, a parent is in big trouble, and faces an uphill road to change things.

I do not spank, nor have I ever spanked. Nor was I spanked as a child. My husband wasnt spanked either, nor does he spank his children. The three foster kids that I took in as teens all came from families where spanking was used extensively. Its not my business what other people do in their families, until it oversteps the bounds and turns from spanking to abuse. I could start spouting the studies that show that kids who get spanked are socially less adapt, are more likely to have personality disorders, dont do as well in school, and are more aggressive, but that would fall on deaf ears and its not my business what you do anyway.

however, in my opinion, someone who uses spanking as a panacea for mental illness ( which it is obvious this girl suffers from), is ill equipped to parent that child, and probably should seek professional help for the child...and for themselves.

Even though, its tempting to whallop them. That I agree with

Whallop is a hillarious word first of all:) I haven't heard that one in a long time.

First off, understand that I believe there is a HUGE difference in a spanking and a beating. The studies you spoke of I would think would fall more under the chidren who get beat category.

Beating is done out of anger while spanking is done for discipline out of love and if you're doing it right it should hurt you (the parent) more than the child. I live in the bible belt. Most folks around these parts still believe in spanking. My friends were raised that way and now we raise our children that way. I think it has EVERYTHING to do with how your parents raised you. It's not a huge taboo here to spank a toddler.

I guess it comes from the whole biblical "Spare the rode and spoil the child" bible theory. The children that I always see running out of control are the ones who do NOT get spanked. They're children that have been Psycho-babbled to death and have no real consequences for poor behavior. They RUN their parents.

Kids who are actually beaten are the ones who have no love at home and I wouldn't doubt if these poor kids stayed in trouble. Discipline without love isn't discipline....it's abuse.

Thanks for not being judgemental. Most people assume you are a horrible child abuser if you dare spank a child. I just believe (and was raised to believe) that it is a part of disciplining children and if done with the right intentions can help children in the long run by teaching them about consequences to bad actions.

I will say there is a difference in spanking a four year old and spanking a twelve year old. At pre-teen age other consequences, like restriction, losing phone, no computer, would be more appropriate.

How do you know there's a prescription?
How do you know there was a "diagnosis"?

Is it possible that there was a 15 minute preliminary visit & the doctor said we need more work & the mother made up the rest of it?

One thing I'd caution is *not* to act like a kid yourself;
you're abdicating power, putting yourself into the role of an equal, & that's always a bad move.

& tos knows this is manipulation & torture, she just enjoys it & wants to keep it going.

Regardless of the love she claims to have for children, she'd be happy for this kid a raving maniac if that's what it takes to torture a second wife.

How do you know there's a prescription?

How do you know there was a "diagnosis"?

Maybe there was a 15 minute preliminary visit,
& this girl threw a fit,
& the doctor said we need more work,
& the mother made up the rest of it.

seems to me that not sending prescription medicine for a seriously disturbed child, *repeatedly* not sending it, would be reason to terminate this woman's parental rights.

One thing I'd caution is *not* to act like a kid yourself;
you're abdicating power, putting yourself into the role of an equal, & that's always a bad move.

& tos knows this is manipulation & torture, she just enjoys it & wants to keep it going.

Regardless of the love she claims to have for children, she'd be gleeful for this kid to remain a raving maniac if that's what it takes to torture a second wife.

...but I just had a thought;
maybe torturing second wives is only half of it;
maybe punishing men for getting divorces is fun, too.

I'd hesitate to jump to the conclusion that this child truly has 'psychiatric problems' when the doctor supposedly prescribed pills after a 15 minute visit and mom doesn't think it's important enough to send any pills with her to dads. What is the 'diagnosis'? What are the pills?

She does sound like she could have a psychiatric problem, but she could also be manipulating the hell outta both her parents and as long as her mom goes along with her antics, she is going to continue to behave this way. If she does have a psychiatric problem, her mother is a contributing factor and nobody, not a step parent or other children in the house (related or not) should have to be subjected to abuse from a child. To turn this into a debate on whether spanking is or isn't acceptable, well corporal punishment is a matter of personal choice. I agree that spanking is not the same as beating. I was spanked on a few occasions (so few, I probably remember every time and I deserved each one). I'm not advocating it, but I don't think it leaves a permanent scar or trauma to get a swat. It works for short term results so I don't think repeatedly spanking for the same infraction works. But, I also think that when you have allowed a child to go too far, it's much harder to rein them back in to behave than if you set the boundaries up front and keep them from crossing them.

Pseudo's SD has learned that she is going to get her way by throwing tantrums and making everyone's life hell. She has mom wrapped around her finger to defend her use of the phone. If mom realizes that she is actually making her daughter's living situation worse by doing this, or SD realizes that dad & pseudo are not going to give in to her, then maybe there would be an opportunity for change. Honestly, I think it's going to take for all the grown ups to sit down together and talk. If mom is trying to use her daughter to run off BF, then she needs to be told that what she is doing is hurting her child. If you (pseudo) and dad talk to mom and make this about the child, not about blaming mom for her part in it, them maybe mom would be more receptive to listen. If mom understands that when SD has these meltdowns, she is missing out on fun with the other kids and family. If mom hears that SD is spending most of her time crying or upset and on the phone with her, etc. instead of playing or having fun, then maybe mom might see things differently. Dad needs to bring the issue to mom in a way of saying "look, our daughter is suffering and we need to come together and find a solution to this."

When mom thinks this is about SD pissing off SM, then she seems to be on board with SD. If mom thinks it's about SM and Dad blaming her for taking her daughter's calls, she gets defensive, thinking she's only doing what any good mother does (making herself available to her distressed child) and continues to play the game. But, if she is asked in a sincere way to help in finding a solution to her daughter's problems, then she might change her tune. I might even point out to her that this isn't just affecting her daughter's home life, it affects her social life. How is she going to make friends (or keep them) if she can't get along or if she throws fits when she doesn't get her way? Does if affect her learning? What other problems is she going to have as she gets older? That needs to be the focus when talking to mom.

At 9 years old, she's too old to start spanking. I think a swat when they are under 5-6 might work to get a point across, but they should have learned by 7 or 8 what is or isn't acceptable. Most kids will test boundaries anyways, just to see if you will give in or they figure out when you are too tired or stressed to stick with it. Teenagers are notorious for it and even my grown kids try to get over on a thing or two.

If I HAD to live with this kid & thank GOD I don't because I also would probably give her a good whallop (after I whalloped her mother & DH)I would insist to DH that phone time with BM be limited to a 15 minute daily conversation when SD is in your custody. Then the phone would be confiscated and I am sure there would be meltdowns etc, but boundaries must be set. Let her have her fit and if it gets to out of control-time for a psych eval.

Also, imho I think your DH should be the "bad Guy" and the one laying down the law and you should go shopping/get a massage/get a pedicure whatever, but get the heck out of there when the fur flies. Let HIM handle his business. You shouldn't end up being the bad guy here just because you are sucked into the drama. Excuse yourself from the situation and find something pleasant to do.

Sounds like SD really needs proper diagnosing anyhow as 15 min isn't even close to diagnosing a mental illness in a child.

Right now SD & BM is running/ruining your lives. The other children are obviously affected and really if this continues what will she be like as a teen?

I feel for you, because I don't think you and BM will ever get on the same page. Seems like both SD & BM are getting some kind of emotional payoff by making you & DH miserable -that's not to hard to see now is it?

I don't understand why the father has not contacted the psychiatrist and discussed the diagnosis and treatment options, including medication, with him or her.

Pseudo, how long have you been married and are there any children between you & your DH?

I just do not understand how you end up getting sucked into all the drama? I've delt with a lot of crap in our blended family but not like this. I am simply aghast at the behavior you are forced to tolerate. I would leave & tell DH to cal me when the kid is gone or grown. I don't think I love anybody (nor do I want to) enough to deal with that.

Hugs to ya. Hang tough & let DH deal with it.

We have been together for almost 4 years married almost 3. SD was 5 when I met her. 4 when her mom and dad divorced.

Cat... I get sucked in because I let myself get sucked in ... it was easier to disengage from SS12 because he could be left alone I didn't have to cater to him he had to call his father if he wanted to do something my response always was "ask your father". When he called mom mom told him too bad I am at work deal with it she never came to his rescue. SD runs to mom via the phone and she is available to coddle her daughter.

Sylvia ... I know I shouldn't resort to acting like a kid but I get caught up in the moment and rather than have a big blow out discussion that will get neither of us anywhere. I just babble makes me feel better.

And yes I have told hubby to find out the drs name and what she is supposed to be taking but that would require him to communicate with mom and he would rather gouge out his eyes, than listen to mom defend her daughter because if it were the other way around and SD was treating her like that he would have to go get her no matter what time day or night, but mom wants to play hero so she can have at it. She'll get sick of it sooner or later.

Mom keeps saying SD wants control so (I guess)the only thing SD can control is whether or not she comes home ... so let her control when she comes home but it will not be with me ... she can come home when her dad is available to be here if he isn't here then she can be somewhere else daycare or mom's.

I agree IMA ... that BM helping SD is giving her hero status saving her poor baby from the mean and rotten SM.

As far as I am concerned with all this ... she is not my kid she has two parents who can cater/coddle her I will not ... they can be responsible for her care ... not me.

If hubby doesn't find out what she is taking and from whom thats on him not me ... he keeps saying she doesn't have anxiety if she "truly" did she wouldn't be able to control it as SD claims she can control it. SD says I am a trigger for all of her anxiety then she shouldn't be around me wouldn't want to trigger anything.

SD won't be here long enough to make solid decisions until mom decides she has had enough. So until then I will not be responsible for SD.

But rules for when SD is here
1) Any calls to and from mom are made from your room.
2) If daddy leaves the house you go with him even in the yard.
3) No phone use after 8PM.

Until mom restricts phone calls I don't care how long she stays on the phone. Just don't get on the phone and yell at me I'll unplug it.

Pseudo,
I think you're doing well to be dis-engaging here & letting your DH deal with all of it. I bet he won't be nearly as patient as you have been and things will come to a head (if they can anymore) faster now that he is solely responsible for her.

There is no reason for you to be miserable. I don't think many women would tolerate having to deal with this situation for very long.

Glad to hear you are stepping back here, try really hard not to get caught up in the drama, when it starts or if SD starts name calling/ bad behaviors take yourself & the other kids if they want to get out, away from her. Leave the house & go to a movie if necessary...just don't get involved-I know it's tough when you feel pushed out of your own home. I think DH will handle this much quicker without you to fall back on, kwim?

Enough is enough.

((Hug))

oh yeah, pseudo I hope your finger is feeling better. I meant to say that in my other post but it slipped my mind. How did you break it?

Thanks cat... he was not happy the first few times I said I would not be responsible for her and he had to talk with mom about the daughter ... but they left me no choices.

Thanks IMA ... yeah dumbass that I am I ran after a runaway shopping cart at the market and got my finger stuck in the shopping cart and twisted it... (ouch!!)

Its in a lovely silver splint nothing to amazing ... but never realized how much I used that finger!!! (left hand)