Window Bids (spending more for metal clad as to all vinyl)

14 years ago

I have a 1950's house with single pane windows (storms were removed for painting) Now getting bids to replace with double hung as to replacing the storms. I've quickly learned that my taste in colors changes everything from being an economical job. "Window World" a national company came out with a $4500 bid for replacing 11 36" wide widows and converting a living room display to a 3-lite slider. They then said another $1200 would be added to do the exterior in brown and another $600 to do the interior in almond instead of white. So basically $6500.

Now I have a referred guy in that seems to be not much more than an individual. He came in with a vinyl bid of $8,000. Also another bid of $10,000 to use a product that offers wood on the inside with vinyl outside. We then discussed going with Pella for $1000 per window which would be for 14 windows because the living room would get 3 windows instead of a 3-lite slider.

Then he states that the Pella with metal clad exterior will only give me problems as to a vinyl product. Says Pella puts 10 years of warranty on the clad and that it will typically deteriorate and come apart. Basically recommending that I stay cheap and use a vinyl product. His warranty is also less at 2 years labor which the national company is lifetime. Says that the national company just gets in trouble every 2 years and shuts it down, changes the name, and cancels everyone's warranties.

I'm kind of lost now but hate to throw in extra bids when he has been spending a lot of time dealing with locating products that fit my color taste. I never knew how much trouble it could be to simply want cream "almond" instead of white and to do a brown to match the dark trim of the exterior.

Any comments on Pella/ metal clad windows? I would potentially spend twice as much to have the great appearance but not if vinyl is that much better. Thanks!

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Comments (7)

kakers2010
14 years ago
Our friends just remodeled with Pella, and someone else recommended them, but after reading the posting on gardenweb called "Major Disappointment with Pella" I'm leaning against them. With regard to aluminum clad windows I am trying to decide between Marvin and Eagle. Anyone have any input between these brands? I haven't priced them yet.
skydawggy
14 years ago
Forget about Window World.They only carry Alside Windows and their best window is only considered average, their lower ends are pure junk. The advice given to you about Pella, I would have to agree with. Pella used to be a great company but not anymore. There is a very long thread on this site about Pella windows and purchasers experience with them that you should read.

What brand and line of vinyl window is your guy recommending? What options like glass is included? Do they qualify for the tax credit?

With the price range you are comfortable in, I would take a look at Marvin Integrity windows. They are fiberglass and you can paint them whatever color you like, inside and outside.

Softlite is another company to look at if you want a two tone vinyl window.
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You either have too many windows or you aren't getting good bids on the Marvin Integrity windows. I don't use the Integrity because they don't yet offer a spacer bar between the permanent mullions. Window selection should start with the features you want rather than brands and prices. Will the interior finish be painted white or stained? Do you want permanent mullions... spacers? Any special shapes or sizes? Special glass? Is it on the ocean or a mountain top? What kind of exterior cladding will the house have? Do you want a sloped sill with a drip? (yes you do) So you want a special color on the exterior? So you want a different sash color from the frame? Do you want the interior pre-finished? The answers to these questions will narrow your window options and save you a lot of time. Just give the list to the suppliers and they will tell you if they can meet your needs. The builder should be held responsible for intentionally low-balling the window allowance in his bid. I would tell him to find me some good bids to make up for this unprofessional self-serving practice. I would even explore taking the windows out of his contract if only to give him a hard time.
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brickeyee, I think the bidding should start at 30 years. That being said, can you name me another exterior building material that lasts 30 years that is made today in normal new construction (roofing, cladding, windows, etc). Yes, premium wood windows should last that long with maintenance, however that is not even close to what is used in new construction. The cheapest stuff in the construction spectrum is used in new construction. Most asphalt roofs that we replace are less than 15 years old. 30 years out of a window is not bad. The technology has come leaps and bounds in the last 30 years. The standard for 30 years ago would have been single pane with a storm window. We are miles away from that now sealed IGUs, Low-e, and inert gas fills. That is just the industry standard. What will be industry standards for 30 years from now will probably be thin film solar, evacuated IGUs, radiant windows, etc. The weatherstripping and air tightness has come miles since 30 years ago with different interlocking mechanisms and advancements in the seals. It is not the window companies that assign the U-Factor but the NFRC that established that term. While I agree it is a made up term in an attempt to distinguish the window industry, it is merely a term assigned to what is an operable vs. stationary building material. Most reputable window companies and installation companies will happily disclose that U-Factor is merely the inverse of R-Value. Average 2x4 wall is no where near R-13 when you look at whole wall R-Values. Whole wall 2x4 wall R-Value is less than R-10 on average and there are windows in existence today that are U-0.10 (R=10). They are expensive but there are more cost effect windows that are out there today that are U-0.15 or R=6.7 Quick Rule-of-Thumb for Glass Performance Options Single Pane - R1 or U1 Single Pane and storm window - R2 or U.5 Dual Pane, clear glass - R2 or U.5 Dual Pane, LowE coated - R3 or U.33 Dual Pane, LowE coated, Argon fill - R3.5 or U.29 Triple Pane or dual pane with storm, all clear glass - R3 or U.33 Triple Pane, one lite LowE coated - R4 or U.25 Triple Pane, two lites LowE coated - R5 or U.20 Triple Pane, two lites LowE coated, argon fill - R6 or U.17 Triple Pane, two lites LowE coated, krypton fill - R6.7 or U.15 When you look at what the realized affect on total wall R-Values are based on the windows being the weak point, it is much more impactful than you might suspect. 80/20 split of wall to window area assuming an R-Value of the wall of R-10. Single pane wood (R-1) total wall R-Value = 3.6 Single pane wood with storm (R=2) total wall R-Value = 5.6 Double pane insulated Low-e (R=4) total wall R-Value = 7.7 Triple pane insulated Low-e (R=6.7) total wall R-Value = 9.1 These are not small differences if you figure you can change your total wall R-Value by almost 3X. The more insulated the wall gets, the more negative impact that a poorly insulated window has on the total wall R-Value
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spencer_electrician
Original Author
14 years ago
My truck is at the shop today with the brochures so don't have the brands handy. We have been carefully checking the low e and qualifications. I'm checking out the softlite company now. I'm not sure if they offer that color match deal on the interior color or not. It seems most all vinyl manufactures offer white or beige on the inside. My interior trim is almond color (same exact match as a standard almond electrical wall plate) and I'm suprised they are not making windows in that color. Most all new houses now seem to use almond on trim rather than stark white. That seems to be why most custom decorated houses utilize a printable window. The beige color just looks really tan/ dark.

Is a fiberglass window comparable to vinyl or better? Climate here is up to 110 degrees F in the summer and down to 0 degrees F in the winter.
spencer_electrician
Original Author
14 years ago
Vinylmax- surewood is one we looked at a lot. It offers a wood adaption for the interior. It's problem is the exterior only offers white or clay (nowhere near brown). I spoke with the guy about softlite and he tells me it is a lower quality window. His only comment on fiberglass windows was that he thought they're too new/ not familiar with the product.
skydawggy
14 years ago
If your guy is telling you Softlite is lower in quality, he is either unknowledgeable about windows or is trying to push you to buy his brand os windows, Either way he just lost a lot of credibility IMO. The Softlite Imperial LS is one of the top windows on anyone who is knowledgeable's list. We don't even carry them but I will tell you they are great widows and I would put them in my own house without any hesitation. Softlite even offer a foil laminate in 6 different exterior colors and gives a lifetime warranty on it as opposed to other manufacturers who only offer a painted exterior with a 7 year warranty.

I'd definitely question any advice given to you by this window salesman.
Yoedgo_suddenlink_net
12 years ago
Simonton vinyl window has won more awards and rated higher than all the rest put together. A decent price of about $650 per but if you want to spend a lot of money get a metal clad window at 2x or 3x the cost. The only reason to ever buy a clad window is for the appearance because they are not more efficient nor will they last as long in harsh weather. Fiberglass is just coming on the scene and boy are they expensive. All depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd
12 years ago
The Simonton window is a solid product but lets not confuse it with being the same class as the Soft-Lite and Sunrise windows.

JD Power awards have nothing to do with overall performance.

Window Bids (spending more for metal clad as to all vinyl)

Comments (7)

kakers2010

skydawggy

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Window Bids (spending more for metal clad as to all vinyl)

Comments (7)

kakers2010

skydawggy

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spencer_electricianOriginal Author

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skydawggy

Yoedgo_suddenlink_net

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CONNECT WITH US

spencer_electrician
Original Author

spencer_electrician
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