The differentiating factors for window design and quality

15 years ago

Hello everyone. As Gardenweb always seems to be a great resource for a wide range of subjects I research, I've come to find the window forum as I research my home replacement windows.

I'm a mechanical engineer and always try to dig into specs and company build quality before I make a purchase. I did so for my riding lawn mower, furnace, etc and now I'm learning windows. Since I will be doing my own research, I'm not looking for manufacturer recommendations.

I was hoping I could gather the factors to which everyone might suggest I use to differentiate and compare manufacturers and product lines. What features signify quality and value? What features that, when found, signify a good design? What features would I expect to see on less expensive windows or on more expensive windows?

For example, vinyl window joints can be welded (better) or mechanically fastened. In case it matters, we're planning double hung, double pane windows and live in zone 5 (NY).

Here are the factors on my radar screen so far:

1) Efficiency factors: U factor, Solar Heat Gain, Visible Transmittance

2) Efficiency features: Low-E, argon filled, etc

3) Material: All wood, wood-clad(al), wood-clad(vinyl), composite/fiberglass, vinyl, etc

4) Spacer design and material: foam, stainless steel, aluminum. Does the air gap distance vary or matter?

5) Construction: finger-jointed versus ?

There must be others...any input is appreciated. Thanks.

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Comments (6)

skydawggy
15 years ago
Add Air Infiltration, Design Pressure, Sound Transmission, Structural Rating, type of sash meeting rail, type of balance system and type of insulation (fin seal and/or cellular foam) and number of contacts between sash and frame and sill design (sloped, stepped and pocket sill.

I would give very serious consideration to the experience of the installer. The best window in the world is only as good as the quality of the installation.
ibwindows
15 years ago
"I would give very serious consideration to the experience of the installer. The best window in the world is only as good as the quality of the installation."

DING DING DING... We have a winner.

I'd rather have poor windows installed perfectly then the best ever made installed by an idiot that can't follow basic instructions. If I had a dollar for every bad installation that was supported by a testiment of having previously installed thousands of windows, I'd have retired years ago.

There are plenty of window installers that will be quick to tell you they have put in thousands without including the vital information.... not one was done correctly.
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1) What do you consider a retail store? My preferred list of vendors would be a window dealer/installation company, followed by lumberyard/building supply house, followed by box stores. You will see a linear decline in quality and performance as you move down that list. 2) All of those items are important (performance, quality, longevity, value), but the good thing is, when you are looking at vinyl windows they generally move the needle in sync with each other. The better the thermal and structural ratings are, the better the quality is and the longer that they will last. U value, air infiltration, and design pressure are the big ones to look at. 3) A few vinyl product choices that are very well made and offer great performance are Okna/Himark, Softlite, Sunrise, and Polaris. I know that you mentioned trying to find a product that might not be as "well-known" among pros, however there is a reason that those products are highly regarded. That said, you should be able to find a good performer that is more "regional" , just use the performance ratings of the better options as a guide for comparison. Alternatively, if your main concern is trying to find a dealer of those products, as someone else suggested you could contact the manufacturer and ask them for a referral in your area.
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Where are you located? Unless you are in a hot climate like the southwest, a heavy dose of low-e will drop your SHGC too much and can be detrimental. The best way to determine product quality is to compare thermal and structural ratings. They tell you how the product will actually perform, and give a great indication of quality. U-value: .27 or lower in DP, .20 or lower in TP SHGC: .25 or higher for moderate to cool climates, lower for hot climates Air Infiltration: I like to see .05 cfm or lower from a double hung Design pressure: It is nice to see R50 or better whether reinforced or not. There are always some exceptions to those rules, however you can be pretty confident in getting a good product by meeting those specs, along with a welded, sloped sill and a lifetime warranty. The SHGC in particular can be tinkered with depending on various factors, but the thing that you want to avoid is a u value in the low .2's with a shgc in the low .2's or less when you are in a cool climate. Out of that list, I'd prefer the Simonton and Great Lakes, although neither of those products will meet the parameters laid out above. You might expand your search to Okna , Himark, Softlite, Sunrise, and Polaris, to name a few.
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In addition to pricing out the specified cabinet construction, you NEED to go see the types of cabinets that you are considering. I looked at some "custom cabinetry" that came in less than 1/2 of the what I ended up buying but the construction, the finish and the quality of the work was not what I was willing to accept. They used baltic plywood, blah blah blah but the fact was they just did not look good nor have the high quality of workmanship that I wanted. I knew immediately that I would be sacrificing the quality of workmanship at the reduced price. Custom does not mean good quality! It simply means that they make it to order. There is a feel to how the cabinets look and handle when you open the doors and drawers..... It could be the little things like the type of hardware they use for their shelves, what type of finish they do on the interiors of the boxes, how tight the tolerances are, how nicely the drawers line up etc. 1/4 inch tolerance (gaps) versus 1/8 inch tolerance is a big difference in how the cabinets look. They can tell you that they do dovetailed hardwood drawers but I have seen plenty of badly done dovetailed drawers. Again, you need to see the quality of the work. It is better to see a home that has been used for a few weeks to months, rather than in the final stages of construction. It is better for you to see how it "wears". If the cabinets are not wearing well that quickly after construction, then you don't go with the company (a reason for one company I rejected) A reasonable cabinet maker should be able to find you to a happy customer that would be wiling to open their door as a reference. Good luck!
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skydawggy
15 years ago
"I'd rather have poor windows installed perfectly then the best ever made installed by an idiot that can't follow basic instructions."

I get your point but, I'm not sure I'd go that far. A great installer cannot make a poorly designed window made with low grade parts great, no matter how good he is.
cvette
Original Author
15 years ago
Thanks skydawggy and ibwindows. I realize installation is a major factor but haven't started finding a contractor. I want to know my way around a window first.

skydawggy, thats the kind of info I was looking for, thanks.

From what I've read, Air Infiltration and Design Pressure seem similar. Sound Transmission is obvious. Structural Rating seems important for high wind locations, but maybe it is an indicator of quality too. I'll keep an eye out for or ask about the rest of the items you listed.
ibwindows
15 years ago
The first place I'd start on any window purchase is the warrenty, then narrow it down to those that actually stand behind their products. Many aren't worth the paper they are written on.

I have a national brand that carried a 20 year warrenty. Fine print actually states it is pro-rated... Windows began failing within 3 years of install.

I also had a customer with 9 over 9, TLD IG units in double hungs, at 5 years old they collapsed (see other thread) and the mfg says they don't warrenty that defect. That's over 300 individual IG units that need replacing. Throwing out windows worth over 50 grand in just 5 years has to hurt.
skydawggy
15 years ago
You can quickly narrow down your search by only considering windows that have earned the AAMA Gold Seal Certification. This filter will quickly get rid of the junk and allow you to focus on the better class of windows.

The differentiating factors for window design and quality

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skydawggy

ibwindows

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The differentiating factors for window design and quality

Comments (6)

skydawggy

ibwindows

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skydawggy

cvetteOriginal Author

ibwindows

skydawggy

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cvette
Original Author