Mailing them back will cause more problems. There's no way to keep SD out of it completely...BM won't let you. Let SD take back whatever mom wants back. Take an extra outfit when you pick up SD if you're going somewhere nice. AND...pretend none of this bothers you.

I just tell my SD when I buy a new round of clothes for the next season that she can take whatever she pleases to her mom's at anytime, but that those are her clothes for that season and that they will not be replaced unless she outgrows them. Occassionally she takes a huge bag of stuff to BM's, but she's learned not to complain when "there's nothing to wear here." (Also, I usually stuff any sleazy outfits she brings over here back in her bag just so I don't have to deal with them.)

I don't usually ask her to bring anything specific back, but she has learned that we are no longer going to buy her an unlimited number of sneakers, so she's careful to make sure she brings some with her when she comes now. And I did ask last week for her to bring one extra school uniform so I didn't have to wash the one she wore to school on visiting day for the next day...just to give me a couple extra days so I could do a whole load of whites instead of just one shirt.

I've accepted the fact that BM thinks SD's clothes belong to her...even the ones that I bought (which I admit aren't mine, but their not BM's either...they're SD's)...and we let SD take what she pleases back and forth.

"I think it's best to keep SD out of it completely."

Has your husband contacted her directly about the issue? In order to extricate the child from the equation then the adults need to communicate without involving the child in any form or fashion.

In my limited experience, as the child gets older they became more self conscience of what they wear to both school and other activities and eventually start keeping track of their own belongings in order to make sure they are readily available to them. Puberty is tough!!!

Mailing her clothes back would be quite comical, but probably not the best idea.

I would go in sd's room and tell her to bag up all her stuff from bm's house. Then take the bag and hold onto it. Have dh send an e-mail saying that since the sock issue has become so important to her that you have bagged up all her clothes from bm's house and tell her to do the same with your stuff that is there and then you can "trade" back stuff at the next pick-up or drop-off with sd.

If you go there and stuff is not ready for you then hold onto her stuff and don't let it return there.

In the meantime buy some thrift store items that are in decent condition for sd to wear to bm's house. If you have to "hide" her good clothes in your closet and tell sd they must be in dirty clothes then do so. But this game with bm can get pricey, I know from experience. We spent way too much money on clothes when bm lived in state because she would play the same game.

Oh_my: It was a bigger issue at the beginning of school since she started to live here and all her clothes here were new school clothes. BM would keep her school clothes so I went and got cheaper outfits from thrift stores and wal mart. It's almost summer and when she destroyed her school shoes over one weekend, when she's taken very good care of them over the school year, I was going to go buy her new ones but then decided that she can deal with the ones she destroyed. She rides a bike, skateboard & scooter here without destroying the top & side of her shoes, so maybe I'm paranoid but it seemed intentional that they get ruined the first time she wears them over there. So, I let it go. I'm not buying her new ones until school starts again. She has sandals for summer.

Lonepiper: DH has talked to BM but she says she doesn't have any of our clothes there and that she's lost so much stuff at our house that she can't keep track of it all. (that was about a year ago) We gave up expecting to get anything back and we have every article of clothing SD has brought here, all kept separate except the socks. She won't talk to DH anymore and when he tries to talk to her about anything, she won't answer her phone. They've been communicating via email but she ignores them comletely or writes back something sarcastic or tells him if there's a problem, she denies there's a problem or says it's his fault. One of the reasons I have tried to ignore this is I don't want SD to feel embarrassed with what she is wearing to school. The one time I sent her to school in clothes her mom sent her here in, which was the first week of school, DH got a phone call from BM's mom asking him how dare he send her granddaughter in those pants that have holes. He told her that is what BM sent her in but we've tried to avoid the problem by getting the thrift store clothes for Fridays. When we didn't make a big deal over not getting those back, the socks became an issue.

and mom2emall: Like I said, BM says she has nothing of ours. We know she has to since we have extra outfits of hers. It's only common sense that we didn't send her there naked. But, we are willing to let it go and send her stuff back. I really don't want SD involved in it. We have been also trying to avoid talking to BM during the exchanges after the time she tried to start a fight with me. We stay in the car & honk the horn. I guess DH could get out and set the bag/box of clothes on her porch instead of mailing it. I thought mailing it would avoid a confrontation and keep SD out of it, but I can see how BM might take it offensively too.

Ima, I don't have a good solution to offer you... But just thought I'd offer that BM sounds like a loony and that I think this desire to get a bunch of socks back is ridiculous.
A__ comes and goes in different clothes (of similar style and quality) from each house. We keep one long pants, one shorts, one sweatpants, three tees, one bunnyhug, one PJs and an assortment of socks and undies and I keep an eye on those quantities as I do laundry. We somehow accumulated 4 pairs of long pants here a few weeks ago, so a clean pair went to BM's in his backpack the next three times he was here. It can be a pain, but at least it's not ridiculous like your situation!

I can totally relate to the socks issue.... last summer ... mom called hubby just about every day to complain about socks(I figured it was a "reason" to call hubby) and I never understood, they would leave here with socks and come home with socks so I assumed there were socks somewhere along the way ... they must be hoarding them in their backpacks so after the umpteenth phone call about socks I gathered up every kid sock in the house ... I mean every kid sock and put them in a trash bag (42 gal bag) it was basically full of socks ... so the next time mom showed up to pick up the kids ... while they were putting on "socks" I went out to my car grabbed SIX PACKAGES OF NEW SOCKS!!! came in the house grabbed the trash bag ... walked out to her car handed her the bag and said "I just bought the kids all new socks so you can have these" .... she called hubby a few hours later saying she had TOO MANY SOCKS ... hubby told her good atleast I won't have to get a phone call about you not having any socks again.

:)

we had the same problem for a couple of years sometimes it was socks other times underwear other times clothes....it will drive you crazy which I think is partially what BM wants and if you can think of SD as being stuck in the middle you might be able to feel some compassion for her- in a way she is a victim of her mother's issues....

We once got an email from BM stating that she wanted us to drive over new clothes because "Dad's" clothes got dirty and she was not going to wash "Dad's" clothes and she was not going to let them wear "her" clothes back to our home. DH refused as it was late at night so she sent them to school with dirty clothes. She's outright thrown out new clothes because she doesn't like them, they aren't allowed to have anything of "hers" at our house.

Anything "good" that they are given is taken to her house and we never see it again..at first we would just replace it and now we don't and the kids have gotten more insistant about being allowed to bring things back and forth....

In the end DH bought a dozen socks and underwear for each to her house and told her it would be his last "clothing run".

Good Luck

Trashy underwear... SD9 came home in a pair I wouldn't want to see the 19 yr old wear ... I asked why do you have those on ... I don't have any underwear at mom's house ... told her to gather up atleast 5 pairs of underwear and bring them to mom's (she brought 7 pairs).

lmao, I never thought it could be that much of an issue. As for trashy underwear, if she comes back in anything I wouldn't let my DD18 wear, it goes in the trash. Like the socks, we don't send her there without underwear so if she wears trashy ones back, we know she must still have the ones she took over there. We toss the trash and buy her new ones. Unless BM is throwing away the ones she wears over there, she should have plenty but she still comes back in the trashy ones. DH won't send them back because he doesn't want his little girl wearing those. When BM said something to him about it last year, he told her don't send her in those and there will be no problem. The underwear war is a different issue altogether.

That reminds me of the underwear war my son's father started with me. He didn't meet my son until he was 4 and my son wore 'tighty whities' or briefs. His father thought he should wear boxers and made a huge deal out of it. He made police reports that my son's underwear were too small. I think he even brought it up in court, which the judge ignored of course. My son ended up choosing to wear boxer briefs as a grown up.

If this is the father of your oldest (I can't recall which dad met which son at which age) I can't say I'm surprised he picked a power battle that involved a p3nis.

ouch...i do hope it is not the oldest son because then dad's interest in kid's underwear would scare the h??ll out of me. i highly doubt that a rapist would even start court battle over child's underwear. it better be the other son.

yes, it was the oldest son. My other son just met his father this year. He didn't start a court battle over underwear, but he did bring it up like it was an issue the court would care about. At the time, he was trying to make me look unfit and get custody after he was ordered to pay support.

and I'm not an expert on this, but not all rapists are pedophiles and vice versa. I don't think he even considered himself a rapist nor thought what he did was rape. During his marriage, he attempted to rape his wife's best friend. When she reported him, he said that he thought she was flirting with him and that he didn't know she didn't want him. Her side of it (which is more likely the truth) is she was staying on their couch and he came into the livingroom in the middle of the night and started kissing & touching her. She got away from him and called police. His wife actually stood by him through that too. He wasn't even prosecuted for that since there wasn't any evidence and it was her word against his. But, I don't suspect he had any sexual interest in my son.

This reminds me of a guy I knew of in high school... This is third-hand, as the girl and I had a mutual friend, but here's what I was told:
He pressured his GF into having sex with him, and I use the term "pressured" very loosely here, I think rape would be a more accurate description. Anyhow, he wouldn't use a condom, and she was too shy to insist on it but too scared her parents would find out to get birth control. She got pregnant. He promptly dumped her and wanted nothing to do with her. Until she had a boy and then he was suddenly very concerned that she would raise him to be a "pu55y" etc etc. According to our mutual friend, when he found out she had the baby circumcised, he shouted and yelled and threw something at her.
So that's why I said that I wouldn't be surprised that a rapist (even one who doesn't self-identify as a rapist) would pick a fight over male genitalia.

We used to have similar fights when SD was younger - 6 to 10 ish. BM would rarely buy clothes (though she worked for a clothing store with a kid's line) and SD would want to bring clothes there to wear. They would rarely come back, or we'd get the pants w/o the shirt, one sock, etc. Or, BM and I would buy the same things and she would try to keep both. I have to admit to enjoying buying girl's clothes, so SD had a pretty large wardrobe . . . but her closet would often be half empty as I ALWAYS sent back the clothing SD wore from BM's washed and nicely folded at the next visitation.
Enter my best friend - the Sharpie. We started putting a D for Dad on the back of each tag from our house, and D's on the toe of her socks. It became a bit of a game for her and she liked looking for the D clothes. Once BM knew she couldn't claim to have purchased something I bought as SD could prove her wrong, she started sending cloths back. Sometimes SD would come home Monday in the same thing she wore there Thursday, other times it would come home in a bag.

Now that SD is 13 I just leave it up to her. We had the talk that if she has 'nothing' to wear here she has nothing to wear . . .tough luck. If she wants to have her things here she needs to get them home. Once every couple months or so we'll go through her room and send back all the 'mom' clothes and I'll ask her to bring home the 'dad' clothes. I'm sure there are a ton of things over there we purchased, but we've told SD that we won't be buying new clothes to replace what leaves here.

Side note - we took a 'hard stance' on clothes we purchase that don't get worn . . . all the things she HAD to have for back to school that aren't cool once they get home. First, we give her a budget to get clothes and shoes and let her figure it out - all of a sudden those $60 jeans aren't so needed when it's coming from 'your' money. After she does her buying, anything that isn't worn within the first 60 days of school is paid back - i.e. she gives us $12 for the shirt she bought but never wore. It seems to be working . . . money really does talk . . .

The clothes thing gets debated on here alot ... I really don't care what clothes are here or there but don't complain if you want something if its not here ...It used to stress me out now on "whipping day*" I gather stuff up just like with the socks and give stuff to mom. I keep enough here to get through the week then off to shopping to replenish the stock:). 5 pairs of pants each, 10 shirts each, everything else disappears one way or another... keepers, givers, give to mom's etc.

*whipping day... basically spring and fall cleaning events!

Sidenote: please lets not drag every thread to IMA's past she doesn't need to be reminded daily of past events.

"if she comes back in anything I wouldn't let my DD18 wear"

You restrict what kind of underwear your 18 year old daughter wears? She is old enough to decide to join the armed forces, but not old enough to choose her own undergarments? How would you even know if she were wearing thongs? I assume she doesn't walk around the house in her underwear.

ceph this makes no sense. she was too shy to ask a guy to wear a condom during a rape? possibly it was a consensual encounter? and pressuring is not the same as assaulting. bunch of jerks dump girls when they get pregnant, it does not mean these girls were raped. let's not assume every moron is a criminal.

Lol!! haha..i have been through this. ANd yes SOOOOOOOOOO Petty! and yes its biomom and sd. We had this problem with underwear and all types of clothes. I told my DH , hey its their clothes let them take them whereever they want. He said, yah, and then they bring back nothing!
So, let her take all her socks back to her moms. BUy nothing! This is what we did. I used to feel guilty and buy them underwear and socks...etc..etc.. Then i said..no way. THese are games. If sd wants to play the game her mom is playing i will not. And neither will my DH. So we bought nothing. Kids came with one underwear and no socks one weekend. THeir dad told them, sorry, you took them all to mom and you didnt' pack your bags properly..guess you'll have to call mom to drive into the city to give them to you. Of course this started a fight..lol..which ended very quickly after that weeekend. SS had one underwear all weekend. SD had no socks and we said tough.
The following week she were send with everything they needed.
CS is to pay for their clothes and my DH stopped me from buying clothes and said the line is drawn. Stay out of it. I wanted to the kids not to suffer and he said stay out of it and let them suffer cause its not our fault. If their mother sends them with no socks and underwear.
He phoned after a while and told her anymore games and Child services will comein. SHe has full custudy, so she will have to bear the full burden of this problem
THings fixed up fast.
BUt yes, petty things like this. We has a family talk about it and my Dh told his kids, that clothes go back and forth. Socks were bought in the past and if they were to take all theclothes back to moms then they willnot be replaced so make sure to pack your bags properly.

My SD is free to take whatever we purchase her to her moms if she wishes. It doesnt bother me because we allow SD to choose her own clothing that we buy; her mom does not - her mom buys her things for her. I feel good knowing that SD has several items to wear that she actually likes.

What DOES bother me is that the items we buy SD often end up being worn by her stepsisters ( stepfathers children). They are girls about the same age as SD. I buy quality clothing, not cheap stuff, and I dont expect to be buying it so someone who isnt related can wear it.

On the other hand, every thing that they wear when coming to our house, mom expects to be returned..not only returned, but washed and folded. Its not that big a deal, so I do it.

I figure we have enough things to disagree about without making a case over some clothes.

FD - apparently he said he wanted to, she said she didn't. This went back and forth for awhile, with the manipulation stuff of "if you really loved me" and "I'll tell everyone you slept with like 10 guys if you don't" and so on. One day when they were fooling around, he just said they were going to have sex now, she was too worn down to give a firm no and lied there crying instead, too shy/scared to tell him that if they had to have sex, he had to use a condom. According to our mutual friend, once that happened, he played the "you already gave it up, so we have to keep doing it" card for awhile, even though she was saying she regretted it and didn't want to continue having sex.
Different people have different definitions. I wouldn't call being told you were going to have sex now, while you cried and didn't want to, but were too abused to tell him to get up and get dressed and leave you alone "consensual".

But sorry Ima for bringing up his dad that way. I guess that was a quite thoughtless.

It really surprised me recently when BF's daughters 9 and 5 came for a visit with no long-sleeved shirts in the early spring and ONE pair of socks between them. BF was so pissed at BM over it, and I suggested maybe the girls packed themselves, or that BM put things in/girls took things back out without her knowing. He looked and me and just shook his head. I know I mentioned this in another post...

...When my own parents divorced, I was packing my own clothes for every other weekend visits, every holiday break and for the whole summer from 8 years old on by myself. I don't recall that my mom even supervised this process, although I'm sure she had to worry more about my brother (packing ten pair of pants and no shirts, etc.). Maybe I didn't have many clothes so I just put most of everything into my one suitcase and that was that! =-) I never left clothes at my dad's, a few hours away, because I was one of those kids that wore my same favorites over and over, LOL.

BTW - would have never wanted to go clothes shopping with my dad anyway! He's the kind of guy who thinks jeans are still ten bucks! LOL

that's okay Ceph. I know you didn't intentionally change the topic to that. I'm going to comment and the I hope it dies off because I thought this thread was pretty interesting. I never realized that socks were an issue that other's had too. (I knew clothes were)

It's funny how people interpret things differently. Just as someone that has never been in the position of being 'pressured' like that or think they would have handled it differently (as if they could know how they "would have" handled it since they have never been in that position) and they may have only one idea of how a rape may occur, when there are many variations of what rape is. It isn't always a stranger that breaks in your house in the middle of the night and holds a knife to your throat, or jumps out of an alley and drags you into the bushes. Nobody can know how they would feel, what they would do or what circumstances would constitute being violated until they are in that position. THEN they will know what it's like and what they would do. To judge someone that has been there is like judging what a stepmom feels or does without ever having been a stepmom. Or judging a biomom without ever having been a biomom. You can't really have empathy for something you don't or can't even understand.

I really think it's the attitudes of those that question the victim on why they did this or why didn't they do that as the reason most of these situations are not reported. I can imagine that the girl you are talking about felt ashamed and responsible. She probably felt like she should have done something else or been able to stop him or stand up to him and say no. She probably heard those same questions in her head and didn't want anyone to find out, possibly ask her those questions and blame her for not doing something differently.

The bottom line is nobody can know what it's like or what they would do until they are thrust into that situation and every situation may be different, just as every person is different and will react different. Who am I to judge what she did or didn't do?

and for anyone that would like to continue a discussion on that issue, start a new thread. This thread is about socks.

My son and his socks .... he had to have socks that had a seam across the toes not on top of the toes I can't tell you how many days he was late for school because he couldn't get his socks on right .... started from the time he was 2 years old continued till he was about 14 .... and they had to be grey or black no white socks ....

I used to have to take him with me sock shopping because he would not wear anything with the seam in the "wrong place"

:)

We have "sock folding parties" on occassion to find their mates ... with 7 people we have a "sock basket" for the strays .... so every so often I dump all the socks on the floor while we are watching a movie and have a "sock folding party"

One of favorite things about summer:

NO SOCKS

For the sake of argument I have to ask: Ima, why do you feel that you should be the only one to comment regarding the story Ceph brought up? And why do you think you should have the final word and then instruct everyone else to "start a new thread, this thread is about socks." I find it odd...

BTDT, bought the T-shirt, wrote the book, and I'm currently on volume two.

I spent several years trying to get clothing that I purchased for my SD/SS back from their BM's house. I would write notes, provide lists, take photos of the clothes to remember, ask endlessly, beg with the kids, talk to their mom, I have tried it all!

The only thing that worked for me is forcing the kids to return to their Mom's in whatever they came over in. They come in Monday afternoon after school. They are with us through the following Monday morning when they go back to school. So whatever they arrive in, they leave in. It works for MOST weeks except those with holidays or if a child is sick. I still lose things, and I still get old undies or too small bras or even tattered socks, but I get the majority of my "clothes" back.

When children get to a certain age, you can have more of an effect on them bringing their clothes back. For example, you can purchase clothes on consignment or even stop buying things altogether until they start being a little more responsible. For SS/14 I finally told him, "No, I will not buy you any more shorts because you wear them to your mom's house. You will need to locate them and bring them back or wear jeans." After a few weeks of jeans, he folded and started to pay attention to what he wore to his Mom's. Now, he can wear anything and I know he'll return it.

I would NOT mail clothes back. It engages them and feeds the drama. If you want to return them, place a bag aside and accumulate them in it. Once you fill the bag just send them back with the child or at a dropoff.

Pseudo, my DD9 pulls her socks up really high...has always done this. She can't stand any little wrinkle in her shoe. Fancy dress socks always end up with the heel somewhere on the back of her ankle...real cute. Finally I just started buying her socks a size too small so she physically can't pull them up too high. She seems to like this better actually.

As for the sock basket....I do that too!! We have 5 in our family. If there's a match in the actual load I'm folding, I'll put it together, but the rest go in the "sock basket" in the hall...usually to be dug through or never to be worn again. The "sock basket" is one of the things SD complains to BM about and BM complains to DH about, but I don't see him jumping up to clean out the sock basket, so I guess it's here to stay.

DH just called me to say he got a text message from BM to 'please gather up all SD's clothes that she bought and send them back.' She said she's got a bag of 'our' clothes that she will trade him on Sunday. (at least I can nix the idea of mailing them back)

I just counted and we have exactly four pair of socks, two pair of torn up shorts, and two tank tops. THAT's IT. DH says she's probably trying to get clothes for summer by saying we have her clothes here. Maybe she's just looking for something to start more crap, because I can see her throwing a fit when he hands her the bag with four pair of socks and two outfits. LOL, of course we do have two big bags of yard sale stuff that doesn't fit her anymore. I guess we could be asses and send that over there. (Nah!)

I don't even have to buy SD any new summer clothes. She has all her shorts from the beginning of school (she hardly wore them to school) and she got a bunch for her Birthday, so I don't have to go shopping until 'back to school' time.

Fortunately, we don't have a community sock basket. My kids all do their own laundry & have hampers in their rooms. My husband keeps his hamper in his closet & I use the one in the bathroom. SD has her hamper in her room too so her stuff isn't washed with anyone else's. When the kids were small, I used to wash everyone's together and I HATED sorting the socks. I'd rather toss them & go buy new ones than waste an afternoon sorting out whose is who? That drove me crazy and I'm glad I don't have to do that anymore.

Pseudo - A__ is the same way with his socks. We actually have to set the timer on a bad day and say "If you don't have your socks on right within five minutes, you're putting your shoes on anyway" or he'll spend 15 or 20 minutes piddling around with his socks.
I'm told that always noticing seams and tags and itchy clothes etc, it quite common in ADHD kids though, and that fixating on weird things like getting socks on right is to be expected.

Don't get me started on TAGS!!! thank god they came out with tagless tee's. :)

"I'm told that always noticing seams and tags and itchy clothes etc, it quite common in ADHD kids though, and that fixating on weird things like getting socks on right is to be expected."

Having clothes not "feel right" is very common in kids with a variety of learning disabilities. Both such oversensitivity and undersenitivity are common, such as not realizing you've put your shoes on the wrong feet or your pants on backwards.

I despise tags and seems on socks for myself so I always took them out for my kids. No ADHD just dislike seams and tags..now that I wear good running socks I don't have the problem but some of the thick athletic socks they make for kids have a very thick, awkward seam that would make me crazy. As for sock matching every boy (3) has his own style and/or color so it is easy to match socks DS9 is ankle red trim DS11 is ankle blue trim DS 12 is all white calf high the DD is girly, same thing for underwear and tee shirts.

Each of us have a sock basket here and we do the 'party' as well.

"Having clothes not "feel right" is very common in kids with a variety of learning disabilities. Both such oversensitivity and under sensitivity are common, such as not realizing you've put your shoes on the wrong feet or your pants on backwards."

Very interesting fact, TOS. Thanks for sharing.

You're welcome. It is difficult when they are too young to verbalize their discomfort. My adult son still finds many items of apparel uncomfortable, and tends to buy identical blue jeans, identical cargo pants, etc.

it is interesting that DD, who does not have any disabilities or ADD, has extreme trouble with clothes, so called, not feeling right. she is very difficult to shop for. everything is either itchy or uncomfortable or too much static, too bulky, too tight, to loose, shoes are too small or too big. same as TOS' son she often buys identical stuff knowing that it will feel right. i always know that this is the case with ASD or other disorders, but I never applied it to DD's weird thing with clothes. i wonder why is she this way. i certainly am not, neither is her father.

bumped this for Ceph!

clothes socks all the same. :)