"It is interesting that only those who have deep Christian religious feelings would like to close this thread, as if they feel threatened by discussions about religion and its appropriatemess in the courtroom or a public forum. As terricks wrote, no one had to even open this thread." I am not a Christian, and am not threatened by discussions about religion. What I am threatened by is the attempt to eradicate any expression of religion from public venues in this country. As to saying that no one had to open this thread - does that mean that someone like me should have looked at the word "prayer", thought "uh-oh" and stayed away? Or having opened it, should not have commented? As to the thread being about the OP's letter to the courtroom - that's true. But only up to the ninth post, where the topic was taken beyond the court. Then people gradually began writing about schools, the Pledge, etc., making it a discussion about Christianity in public life. There's certainly nothing wrong with that. But it was inevitable that others would post with opposing attitudes, being as we have free speech in this country. And that's why the Garden Web has specific rules stated on almost every forum that discussions about religion and politics are not going to be tolerated and that Hot Topics was created for that purpose. FWIW, Mohammed is not a deity; in fact, the suggestion that he is, is a grave offense to believers. That's why the religion of Muslims is called Islam and not Mohammedanism. As for Jews and Muslims being offended by a prayer offered by a Christian - if the prayer doesn't mention Jesus, there can't possibly be any offense. Prayers by the three Abrahamic religions that only mention God are virtually interchangeable. Barb5 - Slavery is indeed condoned (by lack of condemnation) in the Old Testament. That's why I wrote the New Testament. Anyone who reads the NT and comes away thinking that slavery is okay, has not understood the NT. Addressing your question about churches in the Soviet Union: Certain Russian Orthodox and Baptist churches were permitted to remain open. KGB men attended services and kept notes on who attended. Clergymen were expected to cooperate with the KGB; if not, they went to the Gulag. Communism in its inception was atheist, e.g. Marx's statement that "religion is the opium of the people" was taken seriously by the militant atheists. Stalin actually tried to get rid of the Orthodox Church, but was unsuccessful. You are right, though, in your belief that religion was hated; a practicing believer was watched, watched, watched, and public religiousity was against the law (although the word "law" and the USSR barely go together).

For me to order new doors, the company charged me almost $2,000 for 34 doors when I had some of the cabinets modified. When Cabfiascoguy ordered these doors, he only PAID $2,000 for ALL the doors because his company got a huge discount. I just WISH the Judge had asked me what I think is fair. I just WISH the Judge wasn't a lazy, milquetoast, milksop, candy a$$ and showed some courage. He didn't DISCERN CRAP. My 14 year old son said that the Judge restated the OBVIOUS and judged nothing fairly. JUSTICE, in our country today, is NOT FAIR. I know this. You know this. It's just the way it is. Just so you know, the remaining $7,250 from the balance was GONE, SPENT within the first two months to pay for the LABOR OF: uninstallation, reinstallation of modified cabinets, redoing all of the crown molding (labor), measuring and ordering new doors. This did NOT cover any prepping of the location to paint on site, the stripping of ALL of the cabinet boxes, sanding of the doors the second time they were painted, the glazing, the products/paints/supplies, or the Painting labor. And let's not forget the WOOD bill for redoing 5" crown and rope molding. Also, NONE of these charges alone included modifications to my HOOD or master bedroom TV Cabinet! OR having to have the granite template guy return twice and redo the templates because the first time was when we found out our cabinet bases were not anchored to the FLOOR! ALL, and I mean ALL of the labor was piecemealed out. Many different hands were in this pie. WHY? NO ONE wanted to end up in court of to take on this job. I was so upset, I can see why no one wanted to help me. After the sixth guy turned us down, knowing this would end up in court, I cried. I couldn't hold it back. That is how I found out how to get the job done. I couldn't even get an estimate in writing from one person. Not to re-try this, know that it was AFTER the second painter finished that the doors turned green. Why? No primer from the FIRST GUY!!!! ALL doors turned key lime GREEN!!!!!!! THESE had to be stripped and repainted, which has not been completed OR PAID for. I had someone to repaint them the third time, but has now gone on to work for a company and can't do them. The next most REASONABLE BID FOR PAINTING ONLY THE DOORS: is $6,800. This does not count glazing and reinstallation of the doors. I can't find a company, and the LORD knows I've tried, to paint my doors the color I need....and that I can afford. Please, please, tell me if you know of someone. I'm in NE Florida. And just for giggles, let's not forget the court costs, legal fees, anger management classes my husband attended, homestudy bill, and other miscellaneous charges. I could have ordered the TOP of the line Omega cabinets for what we've now invested for these shoddy cabinets. OH, by the way, I still need two drawer boxes modified. The drawers won't close because the boxes aren't square. I have legitimate receipts for $10,000 and ADDITIONAL $24,000, not counting finishing. You think I don't feel shafted and like a fool? I HATE this rage I feel. I hate this bitterness I have. And believe me, my husband is bitter towards me because I chose this guy. $34,000 down the line and I don't have this mess resolved. It's NOT just the kitchen: it's my master bedroom, too. I live in a large area, but our little home town atmosphere is small. The judge lives within a mile of my home. I WILL run into that judge somewhere or at a party. I've learned we know some of the same people. I WILL see him again, I am sure. I just don't know what I'll do at that time. I know this, it ain't gonna be sweet nothings I whisper in his ear the next time I see him.

I don't doubt he could abuse drugs and never get caught. It happens. Some CPS workers are more liberal than others.. Some cops are more liberal than others... and same with family court Judges. We have a therapist that believes SD10 should be seeing her mom on supervised visits only because of emotional abuse, yet he is not willing to say so in court. He doesn't want to be involved in court proceedings. We had a Judge that heard testimony on BM bringing BF's to sleep with her in the same room she shared with her daughters.. and from what SD acted out with her barbie dolls (in sexual positions) and told us about what she saw... the court did not think that was enough to give BM less custody than DH. I have had cops tell me that CPS ruins families when I asked them to check the welfare of my 10mo old DGS. I have had CPS see the bruises on DGS and tell me that unless they see the mother high with the child, they can do nothing... babies get bruises. It is very difficult, not impossible depending on WHO the players are, to get supervised visitation or to take away a parent's visitation or rights altogether. You pretty much have to go back to court repeatedly, with the same Judge and prove these things are going on and hope that eventually the court will take your side. I have seen it go the other way... a parent bringing multiple actions to say things are going on, only to have the Judge admonish the parent for dragging the other parent back to court over and over. A good attorney is a must. There are attorneys that will take a case pro bono or at a reduced fee if they believe one side is at a disadvantage because of financial position and they believe it's in the best interest of the children to be with that parent. Men have Father's rights groups, Mothers have domestic violence & family services groups. One thing I have learned (and always work on practicing because it is HARD), is to let go. Many times, these battles are about control, power & let's not forget about MONEY, not about the kids. The more you battle in the name of the kids, the worse it gets. When it's not fun anymore (or when there is no 'rush' from the fight), the other side will eventually go away and leave you alone... if they are just in it for the battle. I stopped fighting when my son was 12... his dad vanished into the woodwork. I have never heard from him again. After my son turned 18, they have seen each other & spoken, but I have nothing to do with it. I removed myself from the situation. The more we ignore SD's mom, she has had less to do with us... she's still damaging her daughter, but there isn't a battle with us anymore. She still tries.. does things that if WE did them, she would go ballistic, but we shrug & say see ya next time... and go on our merry way. Now, I am working on doing the same with my DIL... as she calls me every name in the book... as she brings DGS back to me with red marks that 'could' be signs of abuse.. or everyday marks babies get.. and she likes to imply he hurt himself by telling me he tried to drown himself or he's depressed/bipolar. I have good reason to believe she is abusing him & she is mentally ill.. but it is still going to be an uphill battle to prove it in court & the last thing I am willing to do is allow myself to get sucked into a battle of wills with her. I document things. I don't confront her, she just denies it. I notify the proper authorities to document what I believe is going on... if they do nothing, at least it's documented. That's all you can do. He is their father and they know better than anyone what their father is about... the time will come when nobody can force them to go. Emotional abuse is horrible, I see it in my SD10 and she lives with us. Her mother makes it impossible for her to live a happy life here, all because she doesn't want to pay support. In time, she will decide for herself. We don't like to let her go because we know the things her mother puts in her head but we have to, it's the law.

I hear you Sylvia, people need to do whatever they possibly can to protect kids from harm. 100% agree. Unfortunately we are not getting very far ourselves with what we've been doing, much to our frustration. BM is a closet drinker, is that how you call it? So nobody knows her 'secret', apart from her close (also alcoholic) friends and family. She's an expert at keeping up appearances, and also I guess people prefer not to see the signs when there are some (like the girls missing too much school because of hungover BM and the school ignoring the issue, but the dept of education also sticking head in the sand. Or CPS assessing BM over the phone and deciding there's no reason to worry about welfare of skids..) Anyway, obviously this is a sore spot for me. When we went to court BM came away laughing, the court counselor did not see any issue with BM's drinking after interviewing the skids (who know how to keep this important secret). As far as we know she doesn't drink and drive with the skids in the car. When they have to go to BM's best friends' place they have to stay the night when BM drinks. The skids don't like staying there (no bed, just sleep on floor with cushion and a blanket apparently..) but it's better than getting in the car. Yesterday BM rang the skids at 4pm and when they'd been talking a while I started to suspect she was drunk. Usually when she is, she'll talk to the skids for hours and promise them the world. And yesterday, they talked for hours (had only been at our place for 1 day, so lots to talk about..?) and BM promised she's going to take them to funparks, buy them new clothes, take them to the movies blabla etc etc. We don't want her to ring our house drunk, but it has been awhile since last time so we were caught off guard I suppose. And this is a BM with 2 more babies, who was taking care of them last night? It's just so depressing..