'I need 8 cfl bulbs somewhere'

how about in a closet on a shelf? to later be returned to the store?

I have to have 80% for my builder to get Energy Star rated. Just stick them in and then change out the ones where you can't stand the CFLs. That's my plan.

I did ask my builder about what happens if we're less than 80% and he said it's not a big deal, I just have to sign something. Not sure what that is, but his quote to me was "Neither of us will go to jail." :-)

Oh, yes desertsteph, that is the electrician's biggest suggestion. He says we need to make them as visible as possible so they don't go around and start counting. All the garage ones, outside ones, basement, closets, bathroom vanity lights, and I'm thinking the builder supplied chandelier fixtures takes the "regular" sized bulbs. Maybe I'll hold back the nice chandeliers we are supplying and have them use theirs after all...with the "swirly bulbs", especially if they are down lights so you can see them. Bleh.

I googled quickly and it looks like there are CFL candelabra bulbs. Since this is simply for an in inspection, why not just buy CFL candelabra bulbs for the inspection? Chandeliers with multiple bulb sockets should help up the tally quite a bit.

I have CFL can lights. Its just a bulb. Put them in now, and when they burn out replace them with incandescents....if you can find them. Soon, you'll HAVE to purchase something else because there won't be anything else in the stores to purchase.

breezy--is it wrong to admit I'm stock piling the full spectrum bulbs? The paint colors look so much better.....lol

prickly--Oh, yeah, that would be great. My dining room chandy has 8 alone. 5 in the kitchen chandy....But they are both on dimmers. Oh, who cares. I'll do whatever it takes.

cbusmom--I wish it were just to get a rating for the builder. It's to get the CO.

Thanks

Do they have to be "cfls" or can they be LED or other more efficient bulbs? If they don't have to be cfl, I would go with LEDs. We are in the process of replacing all the recessed cans in our house to the LEDs after trying one. The light is brighter, the look is better, no noise and no delay in coming on. No lead to deal with on disposal either. Because they are still an environmental hazard and I have not been happy with the few I tried, I will not buy cfls.

No, Bee. Not wrong. I'm starting to do the same thing. I hate how long it takes my CFL cans to fully light, and I don't really like the color. And these aren't the cheap HD ones either.

Until they can make an alternative bulb that has pleasing light, doesn't get hot, doesn't take five minutes to warm up, etc, I'll be using incandescents. Or...maybe there are can lights and other bulbs that meet my criteria out on the marker but I've been too cheap to spend $20 per bulb.

Hey Lascatx! We were posting at the same time. Sounds like there ARE alternative bulbs out there I might like! Are yours a specific brand? What is the cost per can?

I would suggest that you read the ordinance that they are citing to enforce compliance, because if they have adopted something similar to CA's Title 24, something that seems so simple as installing an edison based CFL, is not allowed. The base has to be a GU 24 because the ord, is structured to insure compliance.

So, read before you spend, to avoid spending twice.

snoonyb--the crack electrician who was on site just said "swirly cfl" bulb. I'll get more information tomorrow.

lascatx--we had a lot of the LED bulbs in the last house.

Reason that the electrician doesn't do the dimmable (sp?) bulbs must be because those cost more...the "swirly" ones are really cheap they told me.

I love a good sale on the incandescent full spectrum bulbs. Just sayin'

Kind of a side note. Who provides the bulbs for your new build in the fixtures the builder puts up? Never thought about that before.

Install the cheap swiry ice cream bulbs now and replace what you want after the CO.

breezy--if the fixtures are from the builder then they provide the bulbs. We provide the bulbs for the fixtures we supply.

I don't know where you are, but California's Title 24 (if you are in CA or if your location adopted a code like it) doesn't require that 50% of the BULBS be high efficiency, it requires that 50% of the WATTAGE be high efficiency. Since high efficiency bulbs use fewer watts, it ends up being more than 50% of bulbs. And snoonyb is right that screw-in CFLs don't cut it; you have to have a dedicated high efficiency fixture, one that you can't just unscrew the CFL and replace it with an incandescent.

Almost my entire house is CFLs, except in the bathroom where the delay to full brightness drives me batty. And I just installed my first LED A-lamp in the kitchen. LEDs solve a number of problems with CFLs, including the delay to full brightness. They can also be made to dim better (dimmable CFLs don't dim down to the same low levels as incandescents, and I wouldn't use them if I could avoid it).

BTW, the paint color problem is improved if you install the high efficiency lighting and then choose the paint.

CORRECT, and to further the pain, it's the input wattage, not the output.

The nanny state will get you.

Not sure if they are sophisticated enough here to figure out the wattage calculation. They are actually counting bulbs. I kid you not.

We are not in CA. My guess is that there is a cfl bulb manufacturer in the township. I will have to investigate.

breezy - there are CFLs that don't take a long time to get to full light. They also come in different "colors" and they don't have to cost $20/bulb either. But, you do have to carefully read the package as it is easy to get the wrong kind.

This group is producing LEDs that will duplicate incandescents up to 100w equivalent. They will roll out this year as will more sources.

Here is a link that might be useful: Switch LED

The recessed CREE LED cans are great. We are using the CR 6's around the house. 65 watt equivalent , for 10.5 watts, dimmable to 5 percent. Amazing concept. Originally put in CREE LR6s but these were too bright. Get 2700K as color (warmer).

I second the wonderfulness of CREE LED cans. I have one that I installed myself and plan to replace my other incandescent units. BTW, I tried regular incandescent, fluorescent and halogen in my 4" cans and only the CREE unit produced 65watt equivalent.

I have fluorescent UCL and there is no delay, flicker or hum. Light itself is warm.

If the inspector is allowing the installation of edison based CFL's, it may well be a compromise for enforcement of a decision which was pending and intended to not impose a hardship upon already permitted projects.

And yes there are "instant-on" CFL's in a variety of color renditions.

We've also replaced most of the bulbs in our recessed cans with the CREE LED retrofit kits. We just built a guest house with a lot of recessed light - all CREE LED. They ARE dimmable. They are NOT cheap, which is why your builder isn't installing them!

"They are NOT cheap, which is why your builder isn't installing them!"

There are contractor who simply "go with the flow" and follow the customers leed.

And there are also customers who take suggestion about new tech. as an affront to there traditional concepts of what things should be, because thats the way its always been.

Being aware of evolving tech. adds variety to your life.

Not to hijack Bee, but could someone explain the CREE cans to me. If I have regular 6" cans from years ago, do I need to replace the entire can light housing in the ceiling and attic above to put in the CREE? Not just a bulb, right?

Not necessarily, however the can does have a required depth and there is a lot of discussion about this in the lighting forum.
CREE's website gives the parameters as well.

I was shocked when I read your post, bee. They are truly coming in and checking your lightbulbs? I'm so thankful we started hoarding our bulbs last year. And thankful that ours is not a part of that code.
I have a CLEAR 200watt incandacent in my laundry room and smile every time I turn it on. Makes me happy.

Another CA resident and prisoner of Title 24 and you know what??? Jerry Brown and the state of California can kiss my.....

....but I digress. We went with warm LED 4" pot lights in the kitchen and I have to say they are really nice. In CA, they make sure the fixtures cannot be retrofitted back to "real" lightbulbs, but I do like them even if I didn't have a choice in the matter. Not like the double pane TINTED windows we had to install in the kitchen of our 1929 house....oops, there I go again.

I'll stop now. : )

Huh.
I just go to Lowe's and buy incandescents.
I have dimmable and motion sensor lights all over the place. CFL dimmable are a JOKE. They dim all right. On. Off. It's dim at off.

CFLs in a motion sensor will burn out the socket. Been there twice.

I would like to retrofit all my canned lights to LED, but can't afford it. Many of my off/on lights are LED and CFL. UCL is definitely LED!

C.

We use predominantly CFLs in all our lights. The cans (Halo brand) are compatible with CFLs and all dimmer switches are for CFL or LED. We purchased CFL dimmable bulbs at Lowes and have had no problems (can't remember if they were Philips or GE). The major issue is to make sure the dimmer switch and bulbs are compatible.

I am not a fan of big brother, but then again, energy efficiency is important to me.

'is it wrong to admit I'm stock piling the full spectrum bulbs? '

I'm right there being 'wrong' with ya!

CA Title 24 is killing me with this kitchen. The code requires at least 50% of the installed wattage in the kitchen be from high efficacy luminaires (LEDS and fluorescent fixtures with electronic ballasts). I actually want to install the most efficient lighting I can in most locations, but I would like to use a couple of halogen pendants over the island because my favorite options are not available with LEDs. In order to use 300W of incandescent lighting, I have to use at least 300W of high efficacy lighting. I would like to use LEDs for under-cabinet task lighting and above-cabinet cove lighting, but it doesn't add up to enough watts to let me have my pendants. So I would have to use less efficient flourescent lighting, rather than LEDs, to have enough wattage to offset my pendants. The net result is that I would use more electricity, not less. It is maddening.

I think if you are under a certain total wattage, they should just leave you alone. In commercial projects in CA, they just look at total watts per square foot, and don't worry about what mix you use to get there.

Bee- yup, stockpile until LED is perfected for decorative lights!
We put in GM LARC LED light strips UC - they look sweet! (dimmer not installed) and LED Cooper 3000K can lights (dimmer not installed yet).
Most use Cree -but we wanted the 3000K (actually, I thought I wanted 2700K and was away when the cans were installed - and I forgot to change to the 6 inch cans from the 5 inch cans and the Cooper will fit but not the Cree - so had to fess up to DH - but he said - I didn't like the yellow bulbs - I liked the whiter bulbs and now I am glad of the decision)

We will use incandescent in our decorative lights for now - but putting in a multi-purpose dimmer that can use LED, CFL, and LED for future planning.

I was amazed at the 2700K - most of my friends could not pick out which flood was LED. The color was true and keeps the color when you dim. I do like the 3000K even better but it is a bit whiter but not at all "blue" like the original LED.

Pictures this weekend after we have a countertop!

We are using LED tape lighting by Kimberly in our glass cabinet and the above cabinet and shelf in the sunroom.

As far as the closet - I wonder if you use an occupancy sensor if you can have in a closet. I am hoping so, as we installed it in the pantry, so when we open our new pocket door, we have light and it goes off after a minute of no movement. (So don't ponder too much in the pantry - but it is adjustable in any case)

We have not had our final electrical inspection yet - but we are not in California, so hope we are OK with all!

PS - how many bulbs are people admitting to squirreling! Have to watch for a good sale. I just bought some of the new GE reveal bulbs to try in my decorative lighting.

We love our CREE LEDs which were installed in ordinary can fixtures. We don't love CFL but have loved LED everywhere we invested. Energy efficiency is important to us too.

About the Cree LED can lights for Breezygirl and others:

We love our Cree lights. We bought ours at HD. They came with a white baffle attached. They were around $40 each. It depends which cans you have whether these will fit, ask at HD or the lighting forum; I don't want to steer you wrong. Note that we bought the Cree bulbs. HD also carries Commercial Electric brand, but the experts on the lighting board did not like this brand as much.

There are other Cree lights available at lighting stores that you don't get the baffle, and if you have a special baffle you like, that might be better.

We also bought the Cree Led lights at HD that are dimmable. As colorfast said they fit into existing cans, i believe ours are regualar 6" tins and the the white collar/ring is already attached to the Cree LED bulb. They are wonderful. You just screw them in. When I got ours a little over a year ago they were like $48 each but have come down since.

kaysd, if you satisfy more Title 24 requirements for lighting elsewhere in the house, you get a bonus 100W (200W for larger area house) to use in the kitchen.

If any of you are buying in quantity, you can get the Cree 6" on Amazon for about $33 each (12 for $400). For my Title 24 kitchen (GU24 sockets), HD is still the cheapest I've found, at $40 each or 4/$154. Since mine is new construction, I avoid buying a "trim" and a flood light, since the Cree unit has both, so the payback comes sooner.

> And yes there are "instant-on" CFL's in a variety of color renditions.

Has anyone found "instant-on" CFL's that actually turn on instantly? Or even just semi-quickly? I've tried the cheapo brands from HD and Lowes, the name brands, and even some expensive ones I ordered from a site that specializes in CFLs, and none of them reached full brightness very quickly. Even the best ones still took a minute or so. If anyone knows of a good brand or a good source for these, please post it!

> I don't know where you are, but California's Title 24 (if you are in CA or if your location adopted a code like it) doesn't require that 50% of the BULBS be high efficiency, it requires that 50% of the WATTAGE be high efficiency.

Oh, wow. That's even worse than I thought it was. My architect just sent the plans off to his "Title 24 consultant", and now I'm dreading the response. I guess at worst I can install crappy fixtures that take only the energy=efficient bulbs, then replace them with fixtures that take incandescents or LEDs after the inspections are done.

Do you know if that "50% of the wattage" requirement applies to the whole house, or just the kitchen?

Thanks!

Laura

Michigan almost gives away CFL. The local electric company subsidizes GE but many folks don't realize that and pay full price for bulbs at stores not part of subsidy Ace participates but box stores don't )

That being said, I don't plan on buying another CFL. LED technology keeps
Improving all of the time. I put in 2700k bulbs as a test and asked people to pick out the LED a d most picked the wrong ones.
we actually went with 3000k as DH liked better.
To me, the stupid part is the type of can bulbs. If I pay -$50 for an LED can light, I am not likely to unscrew and throw away the LED bulbs. Technically I can unscrew a CFL easily

Hopefully our pantry will pass. We put in an occupancy sensor. Switch is

Sent from phone so forgive typos erc

I told the electricians to feel free to put the "swirly" lights in all my recessed lights because we were going to replace the lights he was using anyway--those long neck low wattage ones. I like the short necks so you can't see the bulb.

So he thinks we are fine now.

We'll find out. Electrical Final inspection is scheduled.

Bee

We have recessed with dimmers throughout the house. Electronic with the little LED lights so they can be found at night.

First I tried to switch out to CFL dimmable floods but so ugly. The dimmable LEDs are lovely. But neither work with the current dimmers. So to keep the dimmers working, I must keep 1 incandescent bulb in each set.

So anyone putting in dimmers might want to check out those dimmers that work for LED and CFL and also retro to incandescent. I feel Lutron has the best selection.

We won't do it now but eventually I will replace all the light switches in the house to those so we can totally go with LED.

Also found out that, while the LED bulbs are way more expensive than CFL, the light is far better quality IMO and they use even less electricity than the CFLs.

I had bought a bunch of CFLS and they are all now in closets, where they will stay.

that makes me SCREAM. seriously? CFLs nauseate me. we're going to have big problems in a few years from issues with disposal of these things -not that we don't already. i put LEDs wherever i could -and have them slated for some closets too. i found some LED tube lights that can be retrofitted into fluorescent fixtures and that's what i'm going with. the new place is completely CFL FREE.

We just had an energy audit and I had a long conversation with the auditor about this. There are a glut of CFLs and they are pushing them because entities bought them.

But LEDs are even greener and the bulbs I got are as nice, if not nicer than the incandescents. I was using Reveals. Also, it turns out they are better for the fixtures long term, since they don't generate as much heat. So you don't get light bulbs breaking off in the ceiling -- I had one do that last week.

I really like the Illumitech bulbs (made by Feit) I found at Lowe's. Went with 3000K (found the 5000K too blue). Lowe's also has the Lutron replacement switches. No discard issues.

CFLs have a 1-3 second delay before they go on. I agree it's weird.

As I understand it, specialty bulbs will not be included in the incandescent ban. So there isn't a need to hoard chandelier bulbs. ;^)

We've invested some of our 401K into Cree...because of the LED lighting they are working on. I'm hoping they get 'em perfected soon!

I will say this...my LR overhead lighting is 4ft fluorescent tubes in light trays that bounce the light off the ceiling. Circa 1966. Makes for nice general lighting. (We use reveal tubes.)Properly handled...fluorescent is fine.

Too add insult to injury - our local code requires us to update the smoke detectors if you you have work done in the house....
So we will have to put a zillion more smoke detectors and they all have to talk to each other.
I am not averse to updating the smoke detectors but we sleep with our door open (smoke detector just outside bedroom) and one more light in the bedroom and we might as well just leave the lights on!!!

a2gemini---white duct tape? Over the silly light? I cannot sleep with LED's on in the br. I have to cover the numbers on the cable box with a book every night...

Good idea. I have used colored duct tape for lots of things. There is even a fun book on creative uses of duct tape.
I cover a few items with microfiber towels and turn off the clock lights.
I am all 4 safety and we plan to upgrade our alarm system but was happy with one in the hallway.

PS hope not high jacking too much but still about codes. The other tricky part is we can't get a straight answer on the code interpretation and actual requirements. The old saying - clear as mud!
And don't get me going on the MUA code,,,

From iPhone with usual predictive text errers

I went to a light store to see their cfl vs: led lights in the store's "Light Lab"; I found the cfl's to be a little brighter than the led's?? (I assume she was comparing apples to apples and they were recessed lights. Has anyone else had this experience?

Fair warning on CFLs for exterior use. We had a CFL only fixture on our porch and we had to replace it as, when the temp gets too low, the CFLs won't come on. We tried it by bringing the bulb in and warming it up and then putting it back in the fixture...then it started. Perhaps less of an issue in CA than in New England....

Ha, my s-i-l was just telling me her outside led fixture would do something like that when it was cold--Iowa. What to do? Too many lighting decisions! Thanks, Annie.

For cold climates, you need to get the bulbs for that, though they are only decent to about 30deg F, and below that they take a while to turn on.

Usually about the time they are getting bright, I'm done and shutting the light back off.