thanks ladies.

what is in my mind is also something kind of unrelated to SD. after SO's marriage of 28 years ended he is rather skeptical about marriages overall. and if this marriage of SD would not work out his logic would be: see, marriages fail. when in reality marriages often do not work because people make poor choices while married or choose wrong people. This guy does not sound like a good catch to begin with. SD was devstated with parents divorce (besides the fact that she has relationship problems) and her marriage to this guy might be somehow related to parents divorce...

but of course saying anything to her won't accomplish anything. BM said somehting and now SD won't even talk to her. the thing is that it would be OK to let SD to make her own mistakes, but so far dad pays for everything and dad probably will pay for this mistake too...Financially and emotionally.

FD, From what you have said before I get the feeling that SD doesnt have a lot of friends, and has a self esteem problem. I agree with you that you have raise children with the thought process -- how are they going to get by when you are not around.

If either you or SO state an opinion, it sounds like it would backfire.
But would it be possible to 'ask a few questions' that might help SD see things more clearly?
Because it certainly seems like she may not be seeing things too clearly...

You crack me up kkny;)

Dont know why, I thought in the past FD had posted that SD didnt have a lot of friends, etc. Maybe different SD?

I could be wrong, KKNY, but I suspect Colleen is reacting to the same part of your post that I reacted to:

"My DD is provided for very generously. I have already said to her (and she doesn't have even a real boyfriend yet, just lots of good friends), importance of education, career. Even she understands the concept of prenup."

How nice for your daughter at the tender age of 16 (is it?) that she understands the truly important factor in sustaining a loving, caring, respectful, long-term intimate relationship ---- an airtight prenup!

no, you are correct kkny. Same older SD, has no friends. The younger one is very social and is not attached to parents.

thanks sweeby, SO made one suggestion that SD does not quit her job , fiancee said he wants to move to a different state maybe making more money, SD has stable job and SO told her unless they both have somehting stable aligned she should not be quitting her job and moving all over the place. She agreed.

wrychoice, I am not a fan on prenups but if a guy is in his mid 30s, lives with parents and had no clear plans it is kind of dangerous. SD has good savings. she also has inheritance coming her way from grandparents and some trust money. who knows what is this guy up to.

I never said a prenup is so important. My concern is if you dont raise the issue before a potential SIL comes on the scene, it makes it more confrontational.

No no kkny, you know far more about fd and "her money greedy SD" than I do;)

FD, If you're not that close to SD (or married to her father) how do you know so surely that she has an inheritance coming to her from her grand-parents?

I know the question is kind of off-topic, but I'm just curious. Not sure how you would be in a position to know that, unless you have seen their wills? somehow?

I know it from her father of course, I doubt he is lying. He is concerned his daughter will lose everything marrying a guy who still lives with his parents in mid 30s and has to rely on a future father-in-law to buy airplane tickets.

the fact that we are not married yet does not mean we do not know things about each other and our families. we become close first and learn things about each other, marry second (if we will), not the other way around.

i cannot possibly be close to SD, she lives out of state. plus we are not in a rush.

this is absolutely not directed at you personally Serenity-
and this is very off topic but

I do not understand questions like these: FD, If you're not that close to SD (or married to her father) how do you know so surely that she has an inheritance coming to her from her grand-parents?

I mean to me I read that and think very logically (in my mind) that she spoke to her BF and he told her or perhaps since they have been in a raltionship for awhile that grandparents mentioned. I would never even think to question why she knows that information... and that is not the first time questions like these have popped up.. Questions like "How do you know what happened in your husband and his ex's personal life?" to me are just as easily answered... umm my husband and I talked about it...

Like I said not to bash or personally attack serenity or anything I just have never understood those type questions.. maybe I am just more naive or optimistic or something and I dont automatically question things like that... but I guess I will get off my little soap box for now :-)

momof4, I'm probably one of the ones guilty of those questions.

For me, it is not so much the actual situation that is retold -- it is the motives or reasonings attributed to the person they don't even know that I question. I think it is very easy to make judgements or calls on someone from being told something about them, but it doesn't necessarily reflect what the person really thinks or tell the whole story about the actions they took. If it is not a fact or easily verified or has any clear-cut evidence, then I do question where it came from.

Although, I can see in FD's case how she would know and wouldn't need to see the will to know that. To me, that is something that her SO wouldn't have a need to lie.

FD, just to make sure you understand my intentions...

I didn't mean my phrasing to sound like just b/c you're not officially married that you wouldn't be close enough to BF to know such a thing, nor to make any snide-sounding comment about you not being married. (I'm pretty marriage-shy myself!) Only in terms of FDH's parents' wills being a legal matter, and usually one that's pretty private (at least for the majority of the older generation, though I realize there may be soem exceptions); thus the kind of thing that seems more likely to come up in the financial preliminaries to the legal contract of marriage. So I guess my surprise, really, is just as much that *FDH* knows what's in his parents' wills, as much as the fact that you do.

And the only other context for my question is, admittedly, a personal one, but one that I fear might be a ore common scenario than one might think: My SM has for years been trying to convince my Dad to change his wishes for the dispersal of his estate (that is sharing between she and I 60/40% her favor) to not leave me anything on the grounds that "my grandparents" are going to leave me an inheritance. The thing about this is that in my case it happens to be my *maternal* grand-parents (therefore NOT my Dad's parents, thus people whom she'd have absolutely no way of knowing any financial details about) she has been so confident will leave ME (and not, as with most older people, and as with tradition, to their immediate children) all this money, etc. She has based her opinion on the fact that my grand-parents had an outward appearance of wealth and lived high-on-the-hog for several years. But as it turns out, my mother is co-executor of their wills and has been going over their finances with them in the last several months, and they've mostly spent what they accumulated. Thus the joke will likely be on ME, in that way that so often happens to children of divorce, that whole 'well, I don't have to look after her interests because her other parent [or grandparents] will... she's in line to get all this n' that"... with the end result that, because of everyone's assumptions, I'll probably get nothing from anyone. Which I have, unfortunately, made peace with and I have long since known not to 'count on' anything. But it still admittedly kinda sucks, doesn't HAVE to happen, and probably happens all the time. In this particular situation, it's based on assumptions that turn out to be wrong. Not wanting to presume, FD, that you were making similar assumptions, so that's why I asked if you knew for sure.

it did sound strange to me too. I think anyone who has ever been in a serious relationship understands that people do share with each other. we saw each other divorce papers, bank accounts, taxes, retirement accounts, incomes, we do our bills sitting next to each other and advising each other etc Oh well.

SO's X's parents are wealthy. they leave everyone on that side of the family bunch of money. SO's parents are poor and he supports them.

I am not marriage shy. I am divorced, same SO. We haven't been together long enough to rush into marriage after divorce.

You and SM have disagreement on the money issue. You want more, she wants more. Situation what i am talking about is about SD getting on with the wrong guy and guy possibly taking advantage of her and SO. different story. what si that to do with your SM and you I do not know.

"SO's X's parents are wealthy. they leave everyone on that side of the family bunch of money. SO's parents are poor and he supports them."

So, the grandparents in question are NOT your FDH's parents. So when did FDH see their wills last? (Or, at least, the most current versions?) As for the relevance of this to your statements, I'm just sayin': things can be very different than what you expect will happen. Hopefully that will be the lesson others can glean from the situation I have explained in re my SM's assumptions. And no one should 'count on' anything from anybody.

"You and SM have disagreement on the money issue. You want more, she wants more."

Slight correction: SHE wants more; I want my Dad's wishes to be honored, and not a penny more than that.

Now I'll hush and let the discussion go back to your main question about SD's engagement.

Once again it is irrelevant if SD gets anything from anybody. She does not really need to count on anything, she has OK paid job. She is likely to loose whatever she has or makes at her job if this guy continues this way. They both are already on bad terms with her mother and he already sucks money out of a future father-in-law. Not a good beginning, but it might turn out OK. This guy might start growing up, it is about time.

FD, this sends redflags everywhere! SD has saved alot of money, is getting inheritance and this man she is engaged to can't pay his own ticket??? I cna' believe that a ticket would be so expensive with someone who lives withis parents?
The way your describe Sd is that she is very thrifty. My twin is like that in his early years.. he'ld save like crazy and if he can get someone to pitch in somewhere he'lll do it. Nto sure if i'm too crazy about personalities liek this. I find it shallow. My twin is still thrifty but wont ask others to pay. Guess someone told himoff....lol.
But i would seriously consider prenup in this case regarding this guy. Something just sounds so off.
I dont know if you can do anything cause you husband is not taking a stand for fear of losing his daughter. SHe' s already cut off her mom. So she'll cut off her dad.
This is out of your hands. She's an adult and if this is what she wants then this is going to happen. But as for payign tickets, i think yoru hubby should tellhis daughter..sorry, i only have cash for you sweety, i'm sure his parents can lend him some money for the trip.
You never know, maybe the bothof them out in a new environment may change and it may turn out ok. Life is odd that way. Worry when the train really hits. Dont worry with things you do know and cannot control.

FD: I agree with you that there's cause for concern if the guy is sucking money from SD and father-in-law, and I empathize with your frustration at watching it happen and not feeling like you can say anything. I don't think a person should be judged on their amount of money (or lack thereof), but its certainly not unreasonable to refuse to fund things for a guy who isn't a relative but who is wanting to be a husband (and possibly a father?) and is asking others to pay his way. I think you have every right to assert that you won't be paying for certain things, and I think FDH has that right too, if he chooses to utilize it. Perhaps it would signal to FSIL that it's time to "step up" more, and in any event FDH has no official obligation to pay for anything. He may choose to because of what he may or may not know about SD's financial situation, or as a "welcome to the family" gesture, just this once, or perhaps more than that. Perhaps he feels that if he's not leaving his daughter any inheritance, that he will help her out financially on occasion while he is alive to see her benefit from it. If it gets too much for him, he will get sick of giving too much and stop.

SO is terrified SD would be angry at him. She is the type that gives silent treatment (like her mom). Yes, he told me on many ocassions he is scared to upset her and that she will push him away. I could never understand that airplane ticket business. She sometimes asks mom, but mom says: NO, you make enough money. last thanksgiving mom said no, and SO also said that she should try to look for deals herself(kind of gave her a hint that she should be buying her own tickets). She said she won't be coming for holidays if parents do not pay. SO got scared and bought her tickets. he was pretty upset though that she manipulated him that way.

serenity SO is constantly terrified that his DDs especially older one will not talk to him or abandon him. that's why he does whatever. he finds her demands often unreasonable but he is scared she will leave so he does whatever so she stays. Of course SO has no desire to pay for this guy, but he does everything to keep SD happy so she won't cut him off. It is ongoing theme since i have met him.

It is a very sad situation because neither I nor my X are afraid that DD will abandon us.

yes, people should not be judged. I am not wealthy either. But guys in mid 30s who still live with their parents should not be getting married. SD's financial sitiutaion is very fine. But she likes to get what she can out of her dad. her Christams list is 3 pages long designer product lists. SO is mortified every year but still does it because if he does not, she gets angry and does not talk. SO is always afraid of people being upset with him and leave.

This is very typical parenting of guilt. And typical manipualtion on chidlren's side knowing how to push their parents.

this is nothing to do with inheritance. what is with you and inheritance?

The silent treatment sucks and where honest communication is possible, unimpeded and validated, it is an unfair and unwarranted tactic. I don't know all the details or the personalities involved or what all has been tried, but maybe FDH needs to try and discuss the silent treatment with her directly. Not in a harsh way, but letting her know it's hurtful and causing issues and that he wants to work with her on other ways of expressing her dissatisfaction at whatever.

The plane tickets thing ---if there truly is no financial issue keeping her from affording it--- has overtones beyond the superficial money ones. Since it is to visit the parent, there's an element of it that is a clear statement that *the parent* really wants you there. If there's any reason for doubt or insecurity (which, let's face it, there usually is in stepfamilies, and ALL AROUND no less), it can become kind of 'loaded' because it represents a certain amount of commitment to the parent-child bond and to a statement of "I will do whatever I can to nourish this bond and make sure nothing like money gets in the way of it". Certainly, this can be seen to go both ways, but nonetheless it's clear that conflicts & differing expectations can result because it's so symbolic.

Also bear in mind that for many people early-mid-20's is not seen as too terribly old to buy your child a plane ticket to see you. Much of this simply depends on certain cultural differences and what people are used to. That said, it is not too many parents that would pay for a young MAN's (that may be a bit sexist, but it's just true) plane ticket who wants to marry their daughter unless it was an isolated gesture of hospitality, or an emergency situation, and NOT meant to set a pattern.

FD, you brought up inheritance earlier, not me. I did seize upon it, though, simply b/c it's a big issue right now in my stepfamily with my Dad being terminal. But there've been other threads on all that, we don't have to keep talking about it on this one if you prefer. I made my little point about being careful not to presume too much, that's all I needed to say about it regarding this topic.

oh boy. I did not bring any inheritance, I just mentioned that SD has money-job, inheritance, SO's help etc it was just mentioned as one of the money sources that she is risking losing to unadequate fiancee. You are talking about SO leaving her money or not. where did this come from? this is not even an issue. nobody presuming nothing. I repeat what both SO and SD and her grandparents say. I have no reason to assume they are lying.

I can see how SM and your dad are having problems with you.
You constantly assume things that are not even an issue and need to argue nonstop. It must be very stressful for them to be around.

serenity, are you able to read and pay attention to what people say or you just have to see your own agenda about stepparents?

you do not know my SO and do not know what he tells me or what he goes through or what his daughters go through etc. so it would probably be advisable to trust what i am sharing instead of giving your own interpretation. If he says: "i am hurt my daughter manipulates me and I have to leave in fear she won't talk to me if I do somethign wrong the way she does not talk to her mother" I tend to believe him. And if he says how worried he is about this marriage, I tend to believe him. We share our worries about our children, about children's future and them making right choices, or our parents getting older or other things causing stress or pain.

I did not share it here to be questioned, i wanted advise on how to help SO with possible disaster. But you can stick to your own agenda of giving some secret meanings to people's words or how to get more inheritance or whatever you need. This is very upsetting.

"This is constantly on my mind I obviously have no place to say anything, even if SO asks my opinion I say nothing on this matter."

You got it right the first time fd. It ain't none of your business. And if it is constantly on your mind you sound pretty enmeshed. Disengage from your not even SD yet.

sure, coleen. I do worry about SO though. he has a lot on his plate right now. and he would also worry if my DD would get into similar situation. of course it is not my business. i wouldn't even tell my own DD who to marry, but it does not mean i wouldn't worry. :)

You even make the same typos as kkny. I am pretty sure dad is a big boy and can handle himself.

FD, of course you care (and no Colleen, I am not the same person as FD). It may be that there is nothing that can be done.

colleen, we plan ahead of time what typos to make. we actually have a list of possible typos. lol
oh what you gonna do, colleen :)

IF dad's daughter has such a big bank account she can pay for her fiance's and her plane fare. When she sees her own money dwindling she might just smarten up sooner than later.

Colleen brings up my thought to all of this - why does an adult daughter with a good job and a savings account think it's okay to ask for money? Once I was on my own I was PROUD to not ask, and didn't expect a penny from my parents. If dad said "hey honey, I miss you. How about you come home, my treat?" that would be one thing, or if she was a college student that would be another, but just because she 'doesn't want to dip into her savings' seems like pretty selfish and lame behavior. I didn't want to dip into my savings to put all new tires on my car, but I did. $hit happens.

she feels entitled, JNM. it is OK to accept help or ask for help in times of need, my parents helped me a lot, but i is not OK to constantly ask or demand or expect or use a blame-guilt game. although she thinks it is OK to manipulate her dad like that, she is not OK with dad helping younger SD. But younger SD is only 19 and is still in college! My SO finds it is funny when older SD acts all jealous: daddy you should not be helping her to buy a car etc. I do not find this kind of jealousy towards her own younger sister funny. And I overall do not find her relationship with either dad or mom healthy. But it really is nothing to do with me. I just sit and hope it will never hit me on the head.

I still think this problem harks back to SD not meeting more people, having friends, getting out. No easy suggestions. Of course you care. Even if you and SO were only friends, you would care. Has anyone suggested pre-maritial counseling to the couple? Are the two of the same religion -- are they being married by a person of the cloth -- some required pre-marital counseling, which I think is good idea. You can suggest to SO he talk to SD. This is something I would pay for -- some have weekend retreats for a group of couples, where stress issues are discussed. For first marriages, biggest issue (statistically) is money. It might help SD to hear others talk about it.

"I can see how SM and your dad are having problems with you.
You constantly assume things that are not even an issue and need to argue nonstop. It must be very stressful for them to be around."

I try very hard to not make assumptions. This is why everything I asked you was just that: ASKED of you, as questions not assumptions of fact, for the specific purpose of *avoiding* assumptions, on both your part AND mine.

I try very hard to not make assumptions, but like all of us on here, occasionally it is hard to avoid. The fact is that none of us are in each other's daily lives, so you are quite right when you say, for example, "you do not know my SO and do not know what he tells me or what he goes through or what his daughters go through etc." Same goes for everyone's situation on here. If ever I make an erroneous assumption, I am always quick to apologize for it. Whenever I project some of my own feelings from my own situation, I am always quick to acknowledge that and note where the situations are different and where my perceptions have been corrected or adjusted. On the contrary, it sometimes feels to me like you refuse to listen or allow your perceptions to be adjusted in line with facts, for example when you keep insisting "you can stick to your own agenda of giving some secret meanings to people's words or how to get more inheritance or whatever you need" which are completely at odds with the facts of my situation which I have outlined repeatedly.

This apparent hostility between you and I is upsetting to me, too, FD, becuase in so many other areas I see you being a voice of reason and I so often agree with what you say and am pleased that you said it. But it really does feel to me that you have taken a strong disliking to me simply because I happen to be an adult stepdaughter. You complain of being "questioned", and yet you seem to reserve your most pointed (and pointy) questions for me while you maintain a nice balanced polite view and tone for everyone else's situation, across the board. Several things you have said to or asked of me have struck me as very harsh low-blows (rather haughtily pointing out my lack of a lot of money, assuming this means I'm unstable and immature as a person; attacking me for my very intense and conflicted feelings dealing with my dad's impending death, seeming to prey on my acute feelings of guilt, rejection and gas-lit confusion at this time in my life while it seems the most difficult family thing you happen to be dealing with at present is an SD you rarely see and even that is too much, largely because you choose to insert your nose into her affairs ---something you loathe were she to do it to you--- in part, surely, to help but also apparently to pass judgement and find fault.)

Perhaps there's something about me that reminds you of your SD, but I am not your SD. I do not confuse you with my SM. *I SWEAR* I do not, and I have no "agenda" against you or, really, anyone. When I raise comments about my SM in reference to things you discuss, it is not meant to project her onto you but to relay a bit of information that has some relevance (even if the relevance is not immediately apparent to you... very often such seemingly unrelated things become the 'elephants in the room', dictating the quality of the relationship much more than one might think... the point is to increase awareness of the possibilities, not to accuse). It is to simply share my experience, as we all do on here, to compare/contrast and point out things people (not just you; you may hae started this thread but there's no rule that says that every sentence of the discussion, once started, on everyone's part, has to stick to just those items deemed pertinent by the OP) might not have considered that may be illuminating.

Now I have said numerous times that we do not have to keep discussing the things you say you don't want to discuss (but which you nonetheless keep bringing up). If you are done posting to me personally for the time being, I will remove myself from this particular thread if you wish, so you can discuss the aspects you keep saying you want to discuss.

I am not out to tear you down, FD, but I admit it sometimes feels that you enjoy tearing into me. Again, this tension between you and I is probably due to the fact that to some extent we all bring our biases into discussions, we all have no choice but to assume certain things in the absence of residence in each other's homes, and we all have weak points. I hope you and I won't continue to do this to each other.

Let me play devil's advocate for a minute here. Young woman with a good education, good job, financially stable etc falls in love with very nice man, attentive, loving, kind etc with "lesser" education, job, financial savvy, not ambitious, from a "low class" family. Knowing that her family would not approve, she doesn't bring him along on vacations (which she uses to visit her family since she doesn't live near them-- and do they ever use their vacations to visit her? just out of curiousity), doesn't talk about him much, and minimizes the seriousness of the relationship when they ask. After dating for a couple years, (being sensible, taking time to get to know each other), they get engaged, at which point she does bring him to meet her family and, just as she suspected, they do not approve. Her mom tells her to not get engaged "so soon" to this man she's been dating for years, people are assuming he must only be after her money, he's being thought of as "unadequate fiancee" from "not too classy" family.

And I couldn't help notice you said nothing about fiance's personality, only his job and ambition and finances (or lack of those things). Is he kind? Is he attentive to SD? Caring? Honest? Artistic, a great cook, a handy carpenter? Good with kids and pets? Would he make a loving father? You (and I, for that matter) might think a man in his 30s with little financial stability living with his parents is not what we would choose in a partner, but he might have many other wonderful qualities which are more important to SD, who is apparently perfectly capable of handling the financial aspects of her life. (even without daddy's contributions, from what you say).

My point is you (and SO) really don't know much about either the relationship or the man. You only know whatever SD has said, and she has apparently had incentive to not say too much. You may say dad does not judge but it is obvious that even if he is not saying anything to her, in his mind he is judging and if he thinks his own daughter does not know him well enough to guess what he would think I would bet he would be wrong. So she doesn't say much, to avoid being judged. She does sound very insecure in her relationships with her family to begin with.

Being worried is all fine and dandy (and normal and understandable) but you and SO really don't know enough to know if it's a disaster in the making or the start of a wonderful marriage.

Maybe your SO could take some vacation time to go visit her and get to know her fiance better, on their home turf, in real life, find out a bit about how their relationship really is? And, sure, ask questions--- it's not nosiness, it's showing an interest in her life, right? When's the wedding?

If my child were getting married at a destination wedding where a parent could not attend, I would strongly advise her to reconsider. I am surprised her fiance or his family is not doing this. Again, I suggest marriage counseling to help them.

Serenity, don't take it personally. FD's had nothing nice to say to me for the past month either. Which is why I've held my tongue in this thread. I'm finding it hard not to say the sort of derogatory things she's said to me over the past few weeks, so I'm trying to stay out of it.
I'm only piping up to tell you that it's not just you that she's henpecking lately, so don't think you've personally done something wrong.

yes, kkny, SO is pretty upset about destination wedding even if he would attend. Even before she got engaged she was talking about destination wedding to make sure people cannot attend. SO does hope she changes her plans.

quirk, it is tough to say how the guy is because nobody knows him that much. Not too bright but maybe SD likes them thsi way, ha. Wedding is not planned yet. All talks.

Frankly I know how SO gets stressed over everything and I don't want him to go crazy over everything. Other than that SD can do whatever. Like colleen said ain't my business. I better go focus on my own kid now.

just noticed this nonsense.

no serenity the hardest thing is not SO's daughter getting married. lol It is just pretty appropriate topic to share in a stepfamily forum. lol If it is OK with you. ha

At this point the hardest things are to help DD to come out of the closet in the least damaging way for her. But it is not a stepfamily topic. Also the hard thing is to deal with some health issues, but this is health topic not stepfamily. Also my nephew...etc etc None is stepfamily topic.

So with your permission I will share these topics in appropriate forums at the same time sharing about my loved one's daughter geeting married in a stepfamily forum. also if i would like to share my DD's realtionship with a new SM and her dad and her half-siblings I will share it here with your permission although none of these apparently is dramatic or tragic enough for your taste.

You know what you gave upset stomach and headache and I do not even know you. I cannot even imagine being in the same household with the person like you for more than 2 hours. I have no interest to communicate to you whatsoever.

Very well then, FD, you don't have to communicate to me ever again. But I would suggest you do communicate with someone you trust about your feelings of what seems to be displaced rage. No judgement on that, we all have some anger. I wish you the best in learning to work with yours. And also the best for any and all of the family issues you mentioned.

Over n' out---

-Serenity

Isn't this the daughter who makes hotel reservations for her & her father to stay in the same room, the one who wants him all to herself?

There's always a reason for this kind of unhealthy attachment, & until that reason comes to light, this kind of co-dependent thing will be the norm in her & her dad's lives.

I'm so sorry, but unless you enjoy being in train wrecks, I think you ought to put on your fastest Keds & run.

Good point Quirk --

My very dear husband has less education than I do, makes less money, and comes from a family of lower financial standing and cultural background. And when we first started dating, I too didn't talk much about him until I knew it was serious. It only made sense, as I knew my family and friends would disapprove. But he is also the kindest, most considerate person I have ever met, warm and funny, hard-working, honest, a wonderful father, and a devoted son to his mother and son-in-law to mine. I made a fully-informed, conscious and mature decision to marry a man who would not be able to support me financially, but would be able to support me richly emotionally, and that's exactly how it's played out over the past 15 years.

My parents were much too polite to question my choice at the time, though I knew they were concerned. In fact, it took several years of successful marriage before the topic became "safe enough" to talk about.

Do you think this may be the case here Finedreams? That SD is knowingly deciding to take on the "breadwinner" role and has chosen a man who will happily take on the role held by traditional wives? It can work...

sylvia, voice of reason...:) yeap, it is the same one sylvia. yeap, unhealthy. the younger one does not have "daddy" issue.

I do not know what is the reason for this, it must be somehow related to her not talking to anyone else in the family and having no friends. I understand she is upset with parents' divorce but according to SO she was this way when parents were married. last year she refused to fly with mom and younger SD to grandpa's 80s birthday. That was the time she prefered to go to a romantic getaway with dad. BM was very upset. and it was strange that SD wanted to go with dad while younger SD was gone, it would make more sense to go both sisters with dad. This year she asked dad to take her to Bahamas, (what???) he said :no.

DD went on vacations with dad but she lived primarily wiht me and when visiting dad they would go on vacations but they also had DD's brother with them and X's wife. And none of these vacations were romantic getaways. SD always went wiht dad on trips even when he was still married to mom. And she is 26, not a teenager.

I don't think there is anything very sick about it, but there is some kind of element of sickness in it. Younger SD has nothing like that.

I don't know about keds, but maybe time to shop for a good pair of running shoes lol...

it could be sweeby. All seems too strange with this engagement especially if you take in consideration all the other SD's issues. But it could definitelly work, i would be happy if it works. It would allow SD to have her own life and not have as much "daddy" issue.

"I don't think there is anything very sick about it, but there is some kind of element of sickness in it."

I am very interested in what you mean by element of sickness between father and daughter in their relationship.

Thanks

being overly attached such as always or very often prefering company of your parents to company of your peers or friends. such as prefering to go on vacations with the father instead of her boyfriend or fiancee. such as asking father for buying gifts for no particular occasions. and on his part not minding to upset everyone else as long as the adult child is happy. this is not healthy. hense element of sickness in it.

Hey, I know where you are coming from. I have a SD 28, who does exactly the same things and more. So who do you think is responsible for this "sick" relationship? Father or daughter or both?

intial fault is the father's. And also the mother's. When mother is rather hands off and busy with her own life, kids get overly attached to the other parent, dad in this case. then of course dad's fault for not having proper boundaries. (sometimes just not knowing what proper boundaries mean).

And then it is probably daughter's fault as well for not willing to recognize unhealthy ways and not trying to find proper cure for her problems. At the same time if kids are raised this way, why only one of them is that un healthy? SO's younger DD is not attached to no one. She has her own life.

It is hard to explain what boundaries mean and what boundaries are and how recognize boundaries. i am close to my parents and DD is close to both me and her dad, but we have no boundaries issue. I do not know why we don't have boundaries problems and other people do.

My grandmother used to say: the key in every relationship is knowing the boundaries. When you lose sense of boundaries, you are guaranteed messed up relationships. She was so right...