We are pursueing an unusual route. We have what was a somewhat grandish 1882 home that is a mixture of Second Empire and Eastlake. Typical for the time, the back rooms (including the kitchen) were not finished to anywhere near the standard of the front (public) rooms. All the trim, moldings, floorings, hardware etc are/were several grades lower. Trying to recreate such a kitchen would seem fun for a museum, but not practical for the 21st century. And trying to create a muddle left us uninspired. Then we asked ourselves this question: What if, in 1882, they valued and utilized their kitchens as we do today? What if the kitchen was meant to be public and just as grand as the rest of the house? What would it have looked like? That question now forms our basis for design. We found the drawing below for a great ceiling and were able to order a replica, which we finally got installed about a month ago (lots of work!). We will do the floor in the Victorian style tiles from the Tile-Source. This week my wife is applying Venetian Plaster to the walls from Vasariplaster in BM August Morning, so that covers the large surfaces. The cabinets I am building and designing myself (thank God for Sketchup!), and they will be highly ornamental in the original Aesthetic Movement style, with no toe kicks and inset doors, ect. Crown Point has been an inspiration, but we are taking the design a lot further than they do in really trying to recreate period furniture/cabinet design. The idea is that upon viewing a person might reasonably think the cabinets are original to the house, with the exception that such cabinets were not built in kitchens at the time. It's all a bit risky, but it is exciting and we have our fingers crossed! Here is a link that might be useful: Tile Source

In the middle of building a home for ourselves, and after we had sold previous home and moved to a rental, DH got a job offer much closer to our DD who was going to have our first grandbaby. I needed only one semester of teaching to retire, and was unable to get a position in the new town. We put new house on the market and I moved in with minimal furniture and we crossed fingers that the house would sell by midterm. A lady who had had a couple of showings signed a contract. Then a few days later she says she will have a co-signer, "her boss," and we were a little put off by the arrangement, but "her boss" turned out to be a local physician, one that I had seen and never returned for followups and then been told by colleagues that I should never have seen, he was awful,etc. Then little by little stuff started happening on the deal. Turns out he is going to be the only buyer, the lady is off the contract. It took the good dr. a few days to sign the new contract, but he did sign. He had been through the house at least twice. Word is passed to us that he is too busy with practices in 3 places and some deal going in a large city nearby, so he lets his office mgr. handle all business deals. We have a glitch that he wants us to pay for the appraisal for his mortgage. We are pretty mad, but still hoping this deal will fly and I can leave town with the house sold and stop commuting on weekends. We call an appraisal friend to ask his advice and get an absolute ear full on how this buyer has a terrible reputation in business deals, but the bottom line is, do we want to lose the deal over $400. Although contract said appraisal was buyer's problem, we finally agree to split the appraisal fee; that word was passed through the original lady of the first contract, obviously this house is for her and she is hoping the deal goes through, now that she has sold her house and kicked out her husband. Buyer initials contract at title co, & closing date is set. Apparently a moving van is rented for day of closing. We had cleared out the home and I am moved in with a colleague for will be less than 90 days before I can retire. I get a call at school on day of Friday closing, to which my DH has come by taking leave, that buyer has still not provided insurance and funds for closing, is not going to be able to come to the table, but wants the keys and everything will be made good on following Monday. I am very upset, call his business mgr. and she puts him on the phone, he is a real misogynist, gives me a very hard time and starts saying the house has problems around the chimney, roof flashing, yadda yadda, and if I can't trust him with keys, I have no business doing business with him (which, of course we WEREN'T at the outset of this deal). I just tell him to meet my DH at the house that evening. Meanwhile DH says, well, we will go to signing and get our part over, but he is not leaving keys. We go in. Closer had advised on phone that "most deals close, after all, he is a doctor" (whose reputation has certainly made an impression on the number of people who have told us tales about him). We are signing docs, feeling ill at ease, and the closer says, well it IS weird that you are here, but he's not. We leave with keys in our pockets, wondering what will happen next. That evening, the buyer shows up, DH has a ladder and goes up with him to show him that everything is right on the roof (which of course wasn't ever the issue anyway). Buyer is sweet as honey to DH, tells him there will be no problem at title company on Monday, and DH takes another day's leave to deliver keys to title company on Monday and sure enough, all the $$ is there, the insurance policy is there, all is well.Lady moves in. Friends tell us to hold our breath until the one year warranty we provided in contract is out, but it is now well passed. As a side note, the house has been listed with one or another realtor in the past 18mo. The MLS listing was always WAY off, the last time we were town the house appeared empty but unlisted, I can only imagine the pain he caused the realtors as he bounced from one to the other. And where is the original lady of the contract? We are dying to know, but never will. That is our contentious closing story from a FSBO.

· Posted by: hnwillis z8 SC (My Page) on Thu, Nov 29, 01 at 15:22 Ya'll gotta be some of the funniest people. After going through the ordeal of many a gardenia suicides, I decided it was time to plant them outside (great humidity and heat-Z8 SC). I hate to say this but two years ago I planted 2 gardenia plants on the northwest side of my house. They have been doing just fine. They are just at 2-3 feet tall. I have pruned them together this past sprng into a low hedge next to my white picket fence. I have planted the trimmings amongst a groundcover of Gerbera Daisies in a 24 inch plastic pot that I also planted a 10 ft crooked willow tree on the southside of my house. I also put some trimmings into small pots with cheap Wal-Mart garden soil. To my surprise, they have taken root and are growing like crazy. I put one particular cutting into a pot by itself to be able to bring in the house. I left it outside all spring and summer (it rained constantly when I first planted them). This one stayed in 5 inches of water/dirt for 2 months. I have brought the sole potted plant into my sunroom and placed it inside a miniture greenhouse. I doesn't seem to be growing like it did outside. I'm really thinking that it likes to be outdoors in humidity, heat and southern exposure. Go figure? So from 1 pruning of two plants I have successfully propagated 10+ little ones. I can't wait until they bloom. Also, the main idea for planting them outside is that my neighbor has a 10 ft tall, 7 ft wide "gardenia bush" that is heavenly when it blooms. I have taken pictures of it because people don't believe me. I know she doesn't do anything special to any of her plants. One thing we do have in common is acidic clay soil which our azaleas and camellias seem to thrive on. · Posted by: bedou z10 Ft. L. Fl (My Page) on Fri, Dec 7, 01 at 1:15 Its 1:09 in the morning. My laughter must have woken my husband up, so I suppose I should put the kettle on! From a nude plot of land in Ft. Lauderdale, I have tried to fill it up with fragrant choices. Yes, Gardenia included. Its yellow leaves tend to give me a good contrast against all those green ones that are flourishing. Alas, they tend to fall off, so I just use them as mulch where they land. Time to find something else! I certainly shall not spend time agonizing over it, from what you have all said. Oh well, I had such high hopes!!! Joanmary · Posted by: fpogoda 5 N NJ (My Page) on Mon, Dec 17, 01 at 12:21 Just wanted to be sure regarding the indoor gardenia temp. issue: is the optimum temperature 70 degrees during the day, then 55 degrees at night? Thanks · Posted by: yugoslava 6 ) on Sat, Dec 29, 01 at 20:56 I have been fairly successful with azaleas and rhododendrons and wonder if it would be possible to keep gardenia dormant over winter and bring it out in spring, plant it among rhodos and leave it until it gets cold. I have admired gardenias from afar for the longest time, but I knew indoor conditions in the winter were not the best, so I have never had one to call my own. Would it be possible to keep gardenia cool over winter as I do with my fig tree and brugmansia? The scent is absolutely intoxicating! One word about people who live in warm or coastal areas. You have no trouble growing tropical plants which we can only see when we take tropical vacations for which we have to pay dearly. I live in Great Lakes Region with short seasons but we all dream of exotic plants growing luxuriantly indoors. Which is why we fret and fuss endlessly. · Posted by: Jenn z9/19 SoCal (My Page) on Tue, Jan 8, 02 at 10:16 This has to be the funniest thread I've ever read at the GardenWeb. I laughed so hard I could hardly talk and had tears in my eyes!! I printed out the whole thread to share with other pour souls who have tried to grow Gardenias according to all the best recommendations, only to watch them wither away. We have a Gardenia growing on a slight slope in alkaline clay soil under a Japanese Black Pine tree. It gets mid-to-late sun. It gets watered whenever we run the lawn sprinklers. It isn't the most prolific plant we grow, but at least it's alive and produces some blooms for us each year. The success is probably due to the fact that my husband is the one who cares for it, and he is not a by-the-book gardener... he just waters whenever he thinks the lawn needs water, feeds it when he remembers (I think the last time was about 2 years ago), etc. LOL!!! · Posted by: Rosalie 5-6 salt lake (My Page) on Wed, Jan 9, 02 at 11:30 this thread is hilarious! and now famous -- a link to it is posted at the garden party forum, so some of us have wandered over to check out your battles -- i believe i will stick with xeric types -- no chicken dances for me -- thanks for the laughs! and good luck to all -- rosalie · Posted by: ccl38 8A Savannah, GA (My Page) on Thu, Jan 17, 02 at 15:59 I too have had trouble with vetchii. Mine was so large and so heavy with blooms I decided to prune it. We couldn't get past it down the walk. Once prunned it went into a decline and it has never been the same. I have another variety that I rooted about three years ago from a large bush growing at the edge of the swamp near where I work. It is mostly in shade, never gets watered and would probably measure 5 feet, and it has those huge saucer size blossoms and smells wonderful. I don't shake a chicken so I guess I must have held my mouth right when I planted it. They are my favorite plant. For me it is a pass along plant. I root them all summer and give them to anyone who comes along and wants one. · Posted by: Joanmary_z10 z10 Ft. L. Fl. (My Page) on Thu, Jan 17, 02 at 19:23 cc 138 you must have 'the magic touch'Well done, and I say that with honest envy. The question is, are you ready, willing and able to produce 75-+ rooted cuttings from a 'proven' specimen with the right karma, one for each of the above postings, to restore our faith in this plant and to bring aid and comfort to all of us who have been brought down by this picky, picky plant? lol!!! Joanmary · Posted by: Lily 5 IL (My Page) on Fri, Jan 18, 02 at 21:16 I got a Gardenia "Veitchii" last January as a gift, loaded with buds. Looking for culture info I found this thread. Aftering reading everyone's experience, I thought I was going to kill it for sure. I held my breath when I was anywhere near it. I misted it daily and then decided not to mist after my hard water left ugly mineral stains on the leaves. More then half of the buds dropped and it refused to bloom indoor! It got a lot of half yellowed leaves before I dragged it outside in late Spring. It thrived outside and bloomed! In the mean time I got hooked on orchids. I started using the leftover orchid water (rain water with 1/4 strenth of fertilizer and a drop of Superthrive/per gallon) to water the gardenia. It's been growing like crazy! Now it's back in the house in front of my south facing window, and in bloom! It's in a 12" plastic pot and about 2 feet tall. Maybe it's the rain water or the superthrive, but there is definitely hope for all gardenia lovers! · Posted by: Jenn z9/19 SoCal (My Page) on Sun, Jan 20, 02 at 13:40 So that's the trick... "water with leftover orchid water". Why don't the gardening books say that?!? LOL! · Posted by: Lali z9, 18, So Cal (My Page) on Mon, Jan 21, 02 at 15:16 I can't believe how long this topic has gone on for. It is sooo hilarious! Anyway, I'm trying my first attempt to grow gardenias. I put them in the backyard (northern exposure) with ferns and azaleas, so I'm hoping they will be ok. Now that I've read this post, I'm really really really skeptical that they will bloom or even live by my hand. Thanks for the laugh! Lali · Posted by: freesias Z9 ) on Tue, Feb 19, 02 at 23:35 Oh My GOD! I just planted THREE 1 gal. 'Veitchii' gardenias in my front yard mixed border. I have a feeling, my are gonna DIE on me. I am definitely not touching these guys! Will water once every couple of weeks. THAT'S IT!!!! · Posted by: susan_CA z9 CA ) on Sun, Feb 24, 02 at 16:05 What a great thread! Gardenia culture is such a thrill of success/agony of defeat experience. Anticipating an unknown failure rate, I bought 6 'Veitchii'! The two planted directly under a tree (where I wanted to sit) and northern foundation exposure died. The two planted in eastern foundation exposure with shade mid-day on bloom copiously all summer. The two planted in western foundation exposure, where light tree shade relieves afternoon heat after 4pm do almost as well. All get composted manure in early spring, pine needle mulch, half-strength chelated minerals whenever leaves begin to pale or MirAcid if I think of it, water from sprinkler system early a.m. (including on leaves) daily in summer in the hot, dry central valley, and have FAST drainage. The two that died were in locations with slower drainage and more shade. The only year I had some bud drop was the year we had a late, wet spring, but they bloomed fine all summer. I have seen specimens in full sun in the central valley; they bloom well, but leaves & blossoms show sunburn damage. So I'm going with the sun/shade, wet/dry, feed/not theory. · Posted by: jxnphx Zn9 AZ (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 02 at 0:42 Oh my, oh my! The woman at the nursery said I could have an indoor gardenia in my east-window-garden (morning sun, high level of light the rest of the day), but it sounds like she forgot to tell me I'd need to install a swamp for it, as well. I certainly have plenty of heat for it, here on the low desert. I may be joining the ranks of the guilty gardenia group: I'm not likely to "mist" the miserable thing, nor am I likely to change my habits in on-going care (I am sadly irregular about watering and feeding my only other plant--a low-maintenance Madagascar Palm--dracena). I prepared the soil well enough though (a standard potting soil mixed with half-again as much peat moss), I placed the plant "high" in the middle of the pot, added a layer of peat moss on the top, and covered it all with some additional organic mulch, watered it in with an "acid" feeding, and set it above a large, relatively deep saucer with plenty of water for evaporation. I may have misunderstood the nursery lady's comment about the roots, though, because I removed a great deal of the soil from the root ball and treated the roots with hormone before placing it in the new pot and soil mix. I read in the messages above that this plant may not have liked that messing about with its roots. I believe I'll acquire one of those devices that gives a reading of the humidity, to see just how dry my window garden area really is. We'll see what happens. While I may be capable of sustaining this thing's life for a short while, after reading all of this, I'm not planning on much success with it. I tend to move on to other projects, and I'm afraid the poor thing will have to shift for itself more than it is constitutionally capable. Of course, reading about the success of those who largely ignored their gardenia gives me some hope. That's more my style. At least I have a good excuse for turning the AC down to 70 starting in April. I just don't think the local power usage police are going to understand it when I tell them that my astronomical power draw is necessary for the health of a plant. This is going to be expensive emotionally and monetarily. Who would have thought a trip to the nursery would result in such bondage? · Posted by: Joanmary_z10 z10 Ft. L. Fl. (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 02 at 13:16 Oh, what a wonderful laugh this has been! My poor old gardenia is there in Florida, with no one to care for it, depending on the sprinkler system to 'do its thing' and I have no clue what is happening to it. However I have my dark moments when I can see the Christmas lights decorating its bare twigs come December! Taking it that I will be using its twigs as mulch sometime soon, I have bought as a replacement, the African Gardenia. Now I wonder if this is in the same category? Here's to Gardenias who can take neglect!! · Posted by: jxnphx Zn9 AZ (My Page) on Sat, Mar 9, 02 at 15:31 I discussed my newly acquired gardenia issue with my elder sister who, smirking, told me it would probably do me good to have something to worry about. I can only think she was being complimentary about my faultless children and long-ago departed harpy of a wife. She herself has a half-dozen off-spring who provide her with plenty of heart-rending despair. Just in case she was being a smart-ass though, I bought my plant an ultrasonic humidifier which pumps 2.6 gallons of water vapor into the air each day, and I hurried to the used book store and increased my holdings in James Lee Burke (setting: southern Louisiana). I suppose I could have picked up some Faulker, as well, but he's so damned hard to read. I can't stand Tennessee Williams. I am thinking that a few dark and decadent thought-waves might make the gardenia feel a little more at home here in the bright, parched protestant desert southwest. Although it's only been a couple of days, I'm sure it's looking a little better than when I brought it home from the nursery; but just the same, I'm going to keep my eye on a new leaf that is looking a little yellowish. I don't want my dear sister to have the last laugh. · Posted by: BarbC coastal SC (My Page) on Fri, Apr 12, 02 at 15:53 LOL - I have tears rolling down my face and flooding the den. I have 2 unknown variety gardenias that I bought at HD 4 years ago. Since then, I have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to them and yet they thrive. They survived the great flood of '99 (were under 6 FEET of nasty swamp/river water and were still green 3 months later when the water finally went away) They were only 1ft tall at the time, so literally had 5ft of nasty black water on top of them. I even had to pick dried toilet paper off them, as the flood had taken the contents of 1000 septic tanks along its path. Those two gardenias and the roses were the only plants to survive that mess. Anyway, once I could finally walk through my yard again (without sinking up to my eyeballs in slimy mud) I dug those suckers up and moved them to my new (dry) house (roses too). They are still there and doing beautifully in full southern afternoon sun. I do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING special to them. I don't even ater then during droughts. Maybe that's the secret? The guy across the street has a couple and he also does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to his and his are even nicer than mine. Perhaps we are killing these plants with kindness? Maybe what they really want is to just be left alone?

"“There are no bad guys in all this,” Goldman said of Carlyle and Plaza del Rey. “When I see people saying ‘It’s really expensive for me,’ I say if you’re not working in high tech, which requires you to be here, why are you here? If you’re here, you’re making a decision every minute you’re here that the cost of being here is worth it.” what an incredible idiotic thing to say. what if you feed the ones who work in high tech, teach their kids, nurse the sick and the elderly? A city can't exist if it's populated only by X people. It needs the whole alphabet array of folks functioning properly you know the numerous strikes of different unions in Jerusalem where I lived for many years showed me who's the really more important to the infrastructure-and you'd never tell. teachers-can go on strikes until everybody's blue( which they do. lol). nurses..reach agreements a bit faster. still might take a couple of weeks. i remember them being on strike even longer once. doctors-goes faster with them than with nurses city bus drivers-couple days and their requirements are met waste management? all it took was several hours of not picking the trash ..in 35 C heat. they were all set by the evening of that very day lol thank you for sharing that article..and I read each and every response with great interest here in Southern OC young families can be outbid for months in a row on the most affordable homes in 400s-500s and such..usually these will be small attached condos in okay parts of the cities with okay schools, nothing remotely fab. New construction-no lot, stupid layout, probably costs like our remodeled fixer upper( maybe including the cost of remodel)..tons of association fees, and I'm not even sure what these associations do Our condo we sold-yeah they were PITA sometimes with their constant repairs maintenance and beautifying..but on the other hand they did repair maintained and beautified:) (except for a big miss when they decided to paint exteriors a new color. without consulting me ahahaa. or anybody for that matter) The rental for my MIL is already approaching 2K for a tiny one bedroom apartment, built in 60s, nothing to look at, the complex looks like my life lol, maintained but not updated in any way, very basic, laundry outside(and you need to pay for it. the nerve of these people)..the only good thing about it is its location-close proximity to us, to shops, library, parks..especially to one of the parks that she loves that's several steps away. Gives her some independence, us-some peace of mind knowing that we can be there in 2 min pick her up for whatever, and she has her room in our place if needed. Still I remember coming here from Stamford CT where we lived, on and off, for seven years altogether, and being somewhat pleasantly surprised by the prices:) It was 2010. (some cities in CT are very upscale and look that part but Stamford even though it's right there surrounded by them, could use..I don't know..could use something LOL. Some revolutionary thought. Like, clean the damn ice in the winter?)