You're such a good [unofficial] StepMom! IMO, GM was absolutely wrong not to tell BioMom, and is 'wronger' still not to support BioMom's position and punishments. It's a good thing you, BF and BM are all on the same side (A_'s) and aren't scared to act like parents.

As to your 'transferrable punishments' question -- Now that StepMom and I see eye to eye, I have confidence that we would agree with and enforce each other's punishments. However before that, I knew Ex would never agree with anything I instituted, so the punishments were only in effect at my house. Of course, we had a court-ordered visitation schedule, so cutting out visits wasn't an option.

When one of ours did something really serious, I would often respond with surprise and disappointmnt, and say I needed to consult his other parent and discuss it before I could even decide on an appropriate punishment. Then I'd have the child sit and think about what punishment would be appropriate given the severity of the problem. (That was the real agony for the child, and was probably the most effective part of the whole deal. Interestingly, they always came up with something either dead-on appropriate or slightly harsher than I would have given them.) I only include that since sometimes 'immediate consequences' aren't possible when the other parent needs to be consulted, and this strategy turned that complication into an effective part of the punishment.

On empathy, this is an area where we've also had to struggle to teach our son. At age 6 or so, he just had no clue... And we used the same approach you're using -- "How do you think he feels? How would you feel? Why do you think he did that? What else could he have done? What do you think the other person is thinking? What could you say to someone if you're ever in a situation like that?" There were, of course, lots of bumps in that road, and it's a long process. But having DS practice the right behavior has been particularly effective for us. In other words, if he says something utterly inappropriate, stop him gently, help him analyze his statement and its impact, help him find a better response, then have him actually say the better statement until he says it with the proper inflection (no sarcasm). It's laborious, but it does work. My son is now able to easily self-correct, and is working through the 'preventative' phase. It's actually a joy to watch him stumble with the words to avoid saying what he knows he shouldn't say, and the incredibly convoluted but kind things he comes up with are amazing.

One other tactic that might help A_ manage his emotions if it's 'cumulative' frustration rather than sudden anger that causes the problems is to help him imagine his anger as a big red balloon. The angrier he gets, the bigger the balloon -- and it's his job to keep his balloon from popping. Closing his eyes, taking a deep breath and releasing it slowly, and imagining his balloon getting smaller and smaller -- It's worked well for DS.

#1: A grandparent or stepparent should tell a bioparent about a note from school regarding ANYTHING!

#2: If punishments can transfer between homes I think it does a lot of good. But if it is not going to transfer do not push it because nothing is worse than grandma or the other parent giving in and telling the child it is a "secret" and then the child gets off easy.

I think it is wonderful that bm is giving you and bf extra time with A_____ to help carry out this punishment. Did you ever discuss extra time with her after your post about it??

#3: Well for empathy I would just try to model it. Empathy is not something you can teach a child by telling them about it. You have to demonstrate it and point it out.

I have to say your doing a wonderful job with A___!!

Yeah, BF did talk to her about more time and more regular schedule... And she agreed that it would be good - only she thinks we should have him on Thursday nights and Saturday nights (which I think is ridiculous, since half the point is for A__ to spend more than one night in a row at one house)... but since this won't come into effect until we're at BF's place, we have awhile to convince her that Thursday after school to Saturday supper time is better. So, yeah, she agreed to it (but also has quite awhile to back out again)

Thanks guys - I'm trying to do a good job with him (BF makes it pretty easy most of the time) but I hit a lot of "is this normal?" and "what the heck do I do now?"
It's so good to hear what works for other people who have tackled these problems already!

I am surprised the school didnt phone the parents directly. I am inferring from some of your posts that you are in Saskatchewan, and I know (having had kids in the schools there) that it is the law there for the schoolto phone the parents if there is physical contact, and for there to be an automatic suspension of at least a day. I would question what the heck is going on with the school. Parents should have been informed directly about an incident of this magnitude, so that they could deal with it directly when it happened.

Ceph, I have been impressed by your efforts to learn and gather information to help this young boy. You seem to be such a positive influence. I am also impressed that bio mom responded appropriately and stayed on course to make sure there were consequences for this behavior.

Shame on grandma on this one! Mostly, shame on her for sabotaging the child's parents as they do the hard and unpleasant job of training this child.

Grandma is actually harming her grandchild. Here's how. If she attempts to hide what the boy did, and her plan was that he would escape consequences for actually really bad behavior, what is to stop him from doing it again? And as he behaves this way, he will either be asked to leave the school as they must protect the other students, and she harms him socially. If he is allowed to continue this behavior, none of the other children will want anything to do with him. he will find himself left out of play dates, birthday parties, and playmates at recess or lunch. Can you help her to see why her actions meant to help him escape consequences will actually harm him far worse in the bigger picture? And as the boy gets bigger and stronger, if he has not mastered the ability to keep his hands to himself, the future will be bleak for him. It is so much easier to raise up a boy and train them when they are young, than to try and turn around this stuff later on when the consequences are jail and lawsuits for punching someone out for whatever reason.

Tell her also that times have changed, and that schools are NOT putting up with fights anymore. Schools fear that fights will lead to a lawsuit. It is not like it was in her day. And a kids who does this can easily end up in an alternative school of some sort.

Hang in there and get grandma to understand the big picture she is harming her grandson, not helping him.

Grandma's a controller & parents need to clip her wings.

She's exercising power that doesn't belong to her,
she's *concealing* things from the child's parents,
she's teaching *him* to hide things from his parents,
& she's making him her accomplice.

School needs to phone or email from now on.

I would LOVE to explain to GM that she's harming A__ by letting him run wild, letting him eat popcorn for breakfast, not enforcing good hygiene, letting him fight with his cousin, and so on... But who the h377 am I to tell her anything? She's his GM on BM's side and I'm his non-biological dad's girlfriend.
BF has recognized my efforts with A__ since day one, BM has recently come to respect my role (for the most part), but I'm pretty far removed from GM to be telling her she's not do him any favours. BM tries to tell her, but she just says "Well, if you don't like how I babysit, I'm not going to babysit anymore!" I do see GM's point, that she's taken advantage of by her kids who use her as a free babysitter for their kids, but I don't think that absolves her of responsibility to help her grandkids grow up well.

Kathline, yup, I'm a Saskie. I'm not certain what the laws are here about fighting and contacting the parents - maybe it's school board specific? I recall a parent meeting when some boys in my own grade 3 class got in a fight, but I was in a different school system than A__ is in, and that was nearly twenty years ago. Anyhow, this is the sort of thing that's frustrating, because I have NO authority to say "If you can't reach BM, contact us if A__ is in trouble at school" - though maybe BM has hit the last straw with her mom over this and will talk to the teacher about that GM is not a reliable authority figure.
(LOL - was it use of "bunnyhug" and my recent outrage about my newly elected stupid right wing government that pegged me as a Saskatchewanian?)

Ceph - You wrote about getting A_ "Thursday after school to Saturday supper time." I could be all wrong here, but I suspect BioMom may be trying to free up her parenting schedule so she can have Saturday date nights. If that's the case, maybe Saturday nights could be Grandma time?

I never grounded DD (once actually). I don't believe it works. She was suspended once for a fight (she wasn't the one who started). I told her to tell adult next time and don't fight back. Suspension is a punishment because kids have to make up their work at home anyways and they get points off. It is enough punishment.

schools are obligated to call the parents and kids get suspended for fights. So this story with no phone call and no suspension sounds a bit fishy.

Now why would you think it was fishy?

Who knows how Grandma identified herself when the school called?

Maybe these parents can have the school ask a "secret question" before discussing things with the person who identifies herself as Mom.

Fighting is too drastic for suspension alone to be sufficient...
I don't think suspension is the humiliating & horrifying experience it was when I was in school, I think it's just one of those things now.

If grounding doesn't work, then staying home doesn't bother the person;

you have to find out what it is that the person really loves with a passion & restrict that.

Ex's older son was ADHD & all kinds of other stuff, but he was brilliant, & he loved his computer.

Being grounded was heaven for him; more undisturbed time on the computer! Being grounded was a reward!

*Nothing* worked until ex made up a calendar chart with a system of stars & black "X" marks coded for computer time.

Start the week with, I can't remember, say 1 hour of computer time each afternoon, get a star for each day without a call from the teacher, black x for each teacher phone call, star for getting up/brushing teeth/etc, x for going back to bed & cratering before school, etc.

Each star was 15 minutes more on the computer, each x was 30 minutes less.

It worked because it mattered.

Where did Ceph say the school called the grandmother?

"A note was sent home with A__ for his parents to sign."

oops, read the last post wrong.

The point I was trying to make was that the school does need to call the parents;

knowing that the child's grandmother will circumvent the notification, the parents might want to have the school verify that the caller is actually talking to one of them rather than to the grandmother.

Yes, his teacher should have called BM, but she didn't (or maybe she just couldn't reach her that day - that I'm not sure of)... She sent a note. Think it's fishy all you want, but that's what happened. I believe the in-school punishment was that A__ is not allowed to play soccer with TOB for one month and wasn't allowed recess for 2 days.
The point isn't about what the TEACHER should have done... It's about what GM, BM, BF and I should do about it. From what BF said today, I think BM is going to talk to the teacher about that GM's signature doesn't matter about behavioral problems.

One more point. If he is fighting, have you checked the violence content on video games/computer games/movies that this young boys watches?

I would consider it pretty serious if he "punched another child in the face a bunch of times". That sounds beyond a fight, to assault and battery. I would imagine that the school has their eye on any kid that would go that far.

Yeah, his grounding includes no TV with ANY violence when he's with us. He's usually pretty good about understanding that TV violence isn't real, but he does watch some.
He loves scifi and fantasy, so he watches my Buffy boxed sets, but that's a girl beating up monsters. BF watches UFC and boxing (and I like them as well) but we don't watch it with A__ around because when we did, he went bonkers and tried to tackle the cat, his dad and his uncle.
BM watches a lot of crime drama and A__ watches it with her.
He doesn't play Warcraft anymore because he swore at someone on it, so BF deleted his account. He only has cartoony video games at our place, but I have no idea what he plays at BM's or GM's.

He's usually pretty good about distinguishing "that's not real" for violence on TV and seems to know that he shouldn't do that in real life. The problem seems to be that he can't deal with his emotions very well and what might be anger for another kid explodes into rage for A__.
Do you remember quite some time ago, I mentioned that I was wrestling with A__ and his SMOKED onto the living room floor? (He squirmed as we were falling to the ground and I lost my grip on him) I immediately scooped him up and rubbed his head where he hit it, but once he got his bearings again and got up, he screamed and charged at me with his fists. BF and I both shouted his name which stopped him in his tracks, and he ran screaming to the bedroom where he tore the bed apart and cried. Now granted, he bonked his head pretty hard, but that would make most kids cry and crankily say "You dropped me!", not attack.
Another time, he was having a rough day ADHD-wise and really having trouble with decision making, consequences. He'd already had about three "fits" that day of crying and running away. He took a can of pop from the cupboard without asking, BF told him to put it back, he screamed and launched it at BF. On a good day (or even a slightly sub-par day) he asks for snacks and is OK with it if there's a good reason to say no, but this day his emotions were out of hand.

He's been a lot better for the past few months, and we thought he was getting a handle on things... But now apparently he pushed a kid today because the kid accidentally hit him with a stick during some sort of playground game. So maybe he's regressing again... God I hope not.

I REALLY think he should be in some sort of counseling and anger management over and above what the school gives him from time to time in the resource room, but it's not my decision. Grr.